My Daughter Has Completely Lost Her Mind This Morning!

I'm sorry I do not talk to people who are being rude and manipulative.

Repeated. I have one of these too. She's now 12 and really she's a great kid, but boy there were days when she was little....

You're giving her too much interaction at this point. I re[eat that I will not speeak to her and yes at one point we were locking her in her room too. It did not last long, I was too worried about it, but it did the trick.

Good luck

I just read this today... she sounds very much like my almost 6 yr old. He has changed so much in the last year. Just stay consistent and I'll bet she will grow out of it too. He still is much more intense than what I see of other kids but he is able to work himself back down for the most part. He is recognizing that the tantrums do not help and verbalizes much better. Sometimes he will straight out tell me he needs to have a tantrum because he just can't help it this time. I haven't had to "drag" him to his room for months. Yeah!! He is always the golden child at conferences etc as well. Good luck, hang in there!

This is so normal.. Totally testing you and she does not realize it.. Children like to know the rules, they like to be reminded and they like the attention..They want you to reinforce these rules.

She also does not really know what she wants. Since she does not feel like she gets to make choices, she makes ridiculous demands.

At school she has to hold it together all day all week, with you, she can express her true feelings.

This is what it is all about.. When she calms down this next time.. sit down with her in your lap and read to her. I suggest the book,
Alexander and the "Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day."

Then have a discussion about her "frustrations".. When she THINKS she needs something, but really she just needs a hug, or some time for herself.

Remind her you know she gets angry. You know she gets frustrated so do you.. Let her know what you do to calm yourself down.

Tell her it is much better to use her words than to scream and cry. No one likes to hear that. Ask her how can she calm HERSELF down.

Our daughter would go to her room and just flip through tons of her books or she would draw.

http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Terrible-Horrible-Good-Ve...

Let her know she is getting to be a big girl and big girls use their words, not throw fits. Purchase some ear plugs.. Parenting is not for the faint of heart. You are doing just fine.. She is beginning to grow up and there is a lot of fear and turmoil with it, the more she becomes aware of what is going on around her and what is expected of her.

Later, I suggest she's getting entirely too much attention for her tantrums. I would walk away without making a comment and then not interact with her at all until she calms down. Then I'd expect an apology after which I would tell her you love her with a hug. I wouldn't explain anything to her. She knows.

When you explain to her why you had to do that you are opening up the old wound. She was hurt by your no. Yes, you have to say no and yes it will hurt. It's not your job to make her feel OK with the no. It is your job to teach her how to handle the disappointment. Lectures won't do it. Sympathy will.

Accept the way she feels. Do not accept the way she reacts to it. Leave her alone to work out her anger. Then sympathize with her pain, give her a hug and let the issue go.

Before she reacts with a tantrum, sympathize with her as you say no. I suggest her tantrum is as much about not feeling heard as it is about the actual no.

I'm wondering if ignoring her might be a more effective approach. When I'm calm (which is less often than I would like), I look at my son and say, "When you are ready to calm down, we can talk about this," and then I walk away. Sometimes I do tell him to go to his room. If I send him for a time-out, it's usually for 6 minutes, as he will turn 6 this summer. If it's for a temper tantrum, it's usually long enough that I can take a deep breath and long enough for him to quiet down - usually just 30 seconds to a minute. Then I go in there and we talk calmly.

You have to do what works, so my ideas might not. Right now, I might try getting down on her level and saying to her, "Mommy will talk to you when you calm down," and then walk away. When she does calm down, make sure you talk to her right away so that she gets the message loud an clear that this is the way to go.

Good luck! Try not to let it upset you (in other words, try not to take it personally). This is just another life lesson that they all need to learn, and relearn, and relearn as they get older.

I hate days like this. I feel your pain. Have you tried sitting down with her to listen to her feelings and help her find words for them? Usually when I do this with one of my kids, they eventually admit that they are having an especially hard time that day and we come up with some kind of a plan-- just to get through that day. And whenever they start to freak out, I remind them of our plan. Good luck! Deep breaths and get some sunshine if you can! :)

i'm all about talking, explaining and discussing with children.
within reason.
time to stop in this case. way too much talkytalk.
shut it down the minute it starts and don't allow her back in your presence if she's still at it.
sorry, mama. such a hard phase.
khairete
S.

I think it sounds fairly normal. My daughter will be 5 in September and still has these types of tantrums weekly! I have often thought, like you, that she was getting too old for this type of outburst, but I actually think it's pretty normal. They are really on the peak of new horizons mentally and are figuring out how the world works more and more, so they are testing boundaries once again.

What I do is just try to shut it down right away. If she fusses over the issue, my usual response is "I love you to much to argue," then I walk away. It doesn't necessarily stop the crying/whining right away, but I refuse to discuss it so it stops soon enough. If it doesn't then I say something like I don't like to be around you when you're so fussy so I'm going to do ABC, come find me when you're done. Or I'll say I can see you're still really upset so finish crying in your room and rejoin us when you're finished. I have had to carry her up to her room before as well, but I make the overall message about not arguing and letting her come to her own calmness. Depending on the day it takes a different amount of time! ;)

Yes, totally have one. Your daugher is getting a whole bunch of attention for those tantrums, so they do give her a payoff. Do you talk to her when she's in full melt-down mode? If so, stop. It only fuels the tantrum and makes it worse. A professional told me that when we talk to kids when they are in that mode, it only projects our own anxiety about her being in another tantrum and not being able to make her stop onto her and feeds into her own insecurities and spirals downward. Try to idetify any triggers or even if you notice she's starting to get upset (whining, wanting, pouting) and talk to her about her emotions. "I sense that you are getting upset because you can't wear the bracelet. Why do you want to wear it? Why do you think you can only be pretty wearing the bracelet? I think your ______ is beautiful and that you'll feel extra special wearing it. (or perhaps, "if you make good choices today, I will let you try it on for 1 minute before we go to bed tonight." What would that really hurt?). You can say things to talk her off the ledge of a tantrum or things that will distract her "Oh, look! There's a bird outside on our fence! Come quick!" to stop the tantrum before it starts. After it's in place, quietly put her somewhere to finish her tantrum. If she won't stay, take yourself to your own quiet place alone until she's done. Afterwards, do not immediately debrief the tantrum. Let her process it some before you talk.

Finally, choose your battles wisely. In the grand scheme of things, what would it have hurt to shown her your bracelet, told her the story about it, and told her that someday when she's bigger that you'll let her wear it but for now she could try it on for a minute before you put it on. Wanting to wear it was telling you that she aspires to be just like you and thinks you're pretty....why crush that? I know that your rule is that she doesn't wear your things, but there is a difference between wearing it and trying on in your presence to see what it'd look like on her. I wouldn't have fought that battle, as there are so many more important ones to fight through the day.

UPDATE: I read the advice to literally lock her in her room from the outside, and there is NO WAY IN HELL that I'd ever do that to a child...how appalling. I suspect CPS would take very serious issue with that as well.

I have an ADHD daughter who always has, and still does (even at 13!) have a hard time hearing the word no.
I simply don't engage her, and I never have. Same with my other two kids. I treat it like whining (which is something I abhor, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me!) There is no discussion, you want to act that way? Go to your room, I'm not going to listen to it.
Maybe I'm a mean mom but that's just something I won't put up with.

Make sure she's involved around the house in other ways, cooking, cleaning, working in the yard. A busy kid is more likely to be a happy kid. And pick your battles. My girls have always loved to play dress up with my clothes and jewelry. I only say no to a very few pieces, that are expensive and/or delicate. Sometimes I will say yes you can try on my jewelry but you need to stay in my room with it. You don't have to say no to everything.

Well, it's not a popular approach anymore, but my Mom's method was to first warn to cut it out.
If it escalated, then Mom would say you have nothing to cry about so you'd better stop now.
Finally Mom would say "If you want something to cry about, I'll give you something to cry about" and any more fussing after that meant a spanking followed with "NOW you have something to cry about." and the crying would peak and then fizzle out.
She did have to do it more than once, but after a few times we knew she meant business and we learned to get ourselves under control before the final warning.
What sounds a bit different with your daughter is the setting herself up for the ONLY way to be happy/pretty/what ever is to get her way and it's invariably the thing you must say no to.
It's such a tug of war, maybe a bit Oppositional Defiant Disorder?
It wouldn't hurt to have her evaluated.
It's not that you enjoy saying 'No', it's just that she's asking for things that you can't say yes to - like she deliberately picks what you must say no to.
Don't fall into feeling guilty about setting appropriate boundaries - there is nothing mean about it and saying yes just to avoid a fight is not doing her any favors.

Just to let you know you are not alone...my daughter's fit started 3 days ago. Yesterday, she hit me at the ice rink and then while wearing her ice skates (with the blade cover on) kicked at me 3 times. When we got in the truck, I called her Dad and she began screaming to not call him. I thought she would be nice before he came on the line, but she continued the screaming at the top of her lungs and he finally got to hear it.

Today her Dad is home and as soon as I corrected her, she said I just want my Dad. I let him know about her power game and then she showed him on the way home.

The problem is, Dad fully backed me up and told her she couldn't go to all 3 parties that she has this week. I had to explain to him that I have already committed to these parties and people have paid for our spot to be at the party and it is not fair to the parents to cancel because of her behavior. As well, by taking something that you are going to give right back, he is creating something he will not like in a few years.

So you do have to take something that is dear to them, but make sure it is something you will stick to.

Chiming in late here. My 5 1/2 yo dd sounds a lot like yours! I figured she would grow out of it. She clearly knows how to behave at school (glowing reports from pre school through Kindergarten this year) and at other people's houses, but at home she is controlling and easily frustrated. Her tantrums can last for 2 minutes or 60 minutes and are unpredictable. She has a remarkably healthy diet for a 5 yo, and has empathy and is loving at sweet much of the time. But when she is frustrated or angry, watch out. We finally chose to have her evaluated by a behaviorist and we are in therapy. They said she falls in the Disruptive Behavior Disorder area (tell me about it!). We attended a handful of sessions without her and brought her to the last session. The therapist has taught us some different ways of doing things to reinforce good behavior and build up her self-confidence. We will be delving into consequences next session in a couple weeks. We have homework to complete with her in the meantime--different play times, etc.

While many kids likely have moments like this, when they occur with a frequency of 3-5 times per day a few days a week, it's really disrupting life in general. I want her to learn to manage her frustration and anger. Right now she goes from okay to out of control with no in between. She cannot be brought down from her episode with distraction, time out, consolation, anything. We are seeing some improvements in general, and I am happy we chose to seek help. Good luck!

I completely understand. I too have a very strong willed daughter, she is 4, almost 5 (in September). She can be be very manipulative and mean, especially to her older brother. She can carry on for litterally hours. I beleive the longest is at two and a half hours (she pulled it at my day care providers home - not the first time either). She will cry, kick her feet, scream, yell, whatever she thinks will get her way.

I have also tried taking things away - does not work. She ends up in her room until she can get it under control and can come out to discuss the situation with me. When she gets to that point, she is very remorsefull, saying she is "sorry mama, I will do better next time". Sometimes I do not think she is really sorry, just by teh way she acts. But I try to trust that she is.

The best advice I can give you is to irgnore her when she starts in. Every 15 mins or so, I will ask "are you done yet?". I either get a scream or she ignores me. But eventually, she comes out and we talk about what happened and how to avoid the situation (as the case may be).

It works about the best with my daughter. It kills me have to listen to her carry on, but I know that if I give in, it will be twice as long next time.

I hope it does help you.

My daughter and your daughter are clones. Mine does the same thing and it makes me worry that she'll do poorly in school because she just doesn't seem to get the idea. The rules have always been the same yet she fights and fusses every time and is disciplined the same every time. When will it click?

Take a breath, count to 10 and try again. Keep at it, it's got to work sooner or later...Right?

You aren't alone.

from what you say, it sounds like this has been going on for a little while. the ladies are right - not unusual. my son seems to go through a phase (usually, wierdly, right around a birthday) for a few weeks where he just tries to push boundaries CONSTANTLY, even ones i know he has known since he was about 2. and then he stops.

it could partially be a normal phase, growth spurt, etc (as i suspect my son's are many times). it could also be, believe it or not, the fact that dad is around more now. it's still a change to the routine.

but knowing why doesn't change the fact that it is a problem. i agree with the ladies that you may want to curb the amount of talking (attention) during the tantrums. but other than that, i would say you're doing it right - you just have to outlast her! and you are an adult, while she's only a little (almost) 5 year old girl. you can do it. you're tougher than she is. stick it out, it will be SO worth it. i bet in a few more days or another week she will have this worked out. your consistency will pay off.

Well, for my ADHD kiddo, that was par for the course.

What I did, in addition to 'if you whine you don't get what you want', and if you throw a fit you don't get what you want AND you go on timeout' was our marble jar.

In the beginning I split it into several segments, then morning and afternoon. Then finally a whole day (over about a 6mo period).

If he didn't melt down all segment... He got 2 marbles. If he STARTED to melt down but got himself under control, he got 1 marble. Then... Reset for the next segment. It gave him a tangible thing to work toward on a daily basis. I remember the very first time he got 10 marbles in a day. He was sooooo proud/excited/ecstatic. Didn't happen again for a week or two after ;).

Id also randomly tell him to go put a marble in his jar for being caught doing something good. Big, small, whatever.

It is/was a BIG marble jar. It took him almost a year to fill it. And at then end he got a big prize. He was debating between a seaplane ride & great wolf lodge for months. :D finally chose GWL.

This won't fix it, but there are some good suggestions in How To Talk So Kids Will LIsten and Listen So Kids Will Talk.

My son is like this! Things are starting to get better with consistency like you are showing. Good job, Mom.

I've found two things that work (in tandem) with my son.

1) After a tantrum, he has to be the one to acknowledge the inappropriateness of his response and then role-play (with some coaching) a better response. Example: His timeout is on the stairs because if he goes to his room, he will find a way to play and when he gets in to it, he will pretend to still be mad so he doesn't have to come out. So, after 20-30 minutes on the stairs, I do not let him get up until we talk. I say, "Tell me why you are in timeout." He used to say something like, "Because you're being mean" or "Because I was bad." Then I would say, "No. You are in timeout because you chose to scream when you didn't get your way and that is inappropriate behavior" Or "No. You are in timeout because you chose to hit when you didn't get your way." After that I say again, "Why are you in timeout?" He used to say, "Because of what you said." I figured out that this is his way of agreeing while not having to verbally acknowledge the behavior. So, now I make him actually repeat what I said about the offense. Sometimes I ask him to tell me in his own words. Over time he has gotten to where he can be more specific about what caused the timeout. He doesn't get off the stairs until he can explain the problem. (We've been working on this for about 12 months.)

2) New types of consequences. I found that in some cases, just the timeout is insufficient. My son needs to work off that emotional energy and there are some things that motivate him better than the timeout. So, for slamming the door, he has to practice opening and closing the door correctly after his timeout is finished. The first time I had him do 10 and then we add 5 every time a door gets slammed after that. I think he'll be on 35 next time. Also, he's very motivated by money. If he throws his glasses during a tantrum, I charge him a set amount. If he doesn't have the money, he has to do chores to work it off. He only threw his glasses twice after that was implemented. My son is a little older than your daughter so he can work in the yard unsupervised a little bit but one thing that has been super-successful on the days when he is really going crazy is making him pull weeds. It's a win-win for me: he works off the emotional energy and the yard looks better. Those days are getting fewer and fewer. I'm a big fan of using the extra work times for him (even though they are way extra work for me) to teach work skills. He can now clean the toilet, use most yard tools, do dishes, and several other skills thanks to his tantrums. I've had to work really hard to find the things that really motivate him. (I know it's sometimes hard to find those things. It was a trial and error thing for me to figure them out.)

I hope any of that helps.

I think you've done everything you can. And I don't hold it against you for trying spanking. Sometimes it's the only thing that works. Tantrum interruptus!

Keep up with the authority. She needs to understand that you are in authority.
And she will not make any friends with this type of behavior. If YOU'RE getting tired of it, imagine how many friends will drop her because of it! That might be a driving point.

But now is the time to nip her behavior patterns in the bud. Wait till she's a teen and it's major headaches from then on.

Good luck.