Young Teen Girl and Friendship Issue

wowza! way too much micro managing going on here! My daughter is a freshman also. I've always taught her to just be herself and she's found true good friends. I think you're in her business way too much for her age. imo.

We are going through middle school mean girl drama right now, so I understand the concern. It's hard to stay on the sidelines when friendships are souring or turning plain rotten.

Our daughter was just alienated from her friend group for being too anxious. We were already in the process of getting her lined up with a therapist and psychiatrist, knowing it's a big issue, but her (former) best friend and another girl decided they didn't want to hear her anxieties anymore and forced her out of their larger group. It took everything in me not to contact her former best friend's parents and fill them in on what was going on, since I knew they'd take action. But that's not doing my daughter any favors. On her own, my daughter reconnected with an old friend, who has embraced her again, anxiety and all. She has a much better support system of friends now.

Unfortunately, one of the big life lessons is learning what makes a good friendship. My daughter and your daughter will be stronger in the end having learned the qualities of good friends and bad. Our daughter's therapist went even further and corrected her when she referred to these mean girls as friends, saying there are friends and villains, and to make sure you know the difference. As a parent, I say don't get involved or overanalyze. Sometimes girls are just rotten, sometimes friendships evolve and don't make sense anymore. Just be there to listen when your daughter needs it.

Maybe this old group of your daughter's isn't the right 'fit' for her now. That's just a life lesson. When we try 'too' hard, it's not always worth it. When we stop trying so hard, often it works out better.

That's what I would advise your daughter. She gets along well with one or two. That's great. Those are her true friendships. No one is really close friends with everyone in a group. When you're young (as she was in elementary) they just play together - outside on the playground and playdates etc. In high school, you're actually bonding and sharing stuff. Usually there's one or two key people you actually really like. So that's typical - what she's experiencing.

Ignore the rest and don't overthink.

Not everyone is going to like you in a group. The key is to let it go.

Don't try to fit in too much. When you stop trying, things have a way of working out better. She might meet other people she gets along with better. Usually that's how it works :)

I doubt she's doing anything really annoying etc. My teens come home and say so and so was annoying (changes daily) and I know their friends say the same about them. It's typical. No one takes it seriously and they're just venting and blowing off steam - same as adults do when they leave the office. It's just group dynamics.

Sounds perfectly teen-typical :)

ETA: Saw your SWH. If the 'key' girl is nice some of the time (one on one) but not nice in the group, sadly, that's typical of some girls that age (and boys). That can be immaturity, group dynamics, and just personality. One of my teens has so much drama in his group it's mind boggling. The ones who are stable (know who they are, genuinely confident, etc.) seem to fare the best - but even they are sometimes on the outs too.

One of my teens is in a 'larger' group, but has about 3 good pals. Every year it narrows down. Then he has another group (from sports) that he hangs out with on weekends. It's a nice balance.

I have a girl whose BFF (goes to different school) is totally different around her if with her school friends. Makes going to sleepovers awkward, but my daughter does not take it personally. She knows her friend 'changes' when around her other friends - because of group dynamic. Some of the other girls are kind of bitchy (resentful she's there most likely). I tell my daughter she has option of not going, but my daughter says she still has fun.

Is your daughter an introvert? Sometimes introverts do better one on one and not in groups. Or they chose to let all the group stuff go and know it's not important and just value those times when they hang out with pals alone. This is all fairly typical - I read those mean girl books (someone here recommended them) last year, and it helped me to see that girls just play parts depending on their personalities. Some are easy going and don't really get it. One of mine is like that. Maybe yours is too. That's fine. Kids don't have to be part of these large groups. She might just pair off with a new friend at some point. I did in high school and she's still my BFF today :)

I rarely write but thought this issue hit close to home :)
My Sophmore daughter had some of the same issues starting her freshman year last year. She made a bunch of new friends and had a great year. Fast forward to this year. The close friendships are still friendships but not the same. Boyfriends and interests were added to the mix, changing the dynamic. My daughter has made new friends but is still friendly with the old group of girls. My advice to her is to be kind, even when she feels slighted. Smile and walk away. Girls can be mean and ugly one minute and hugging you the next. Trying to figure out the issue with teenage girls is impossible. They change like the wind. Even my daughter at times. I found it better for my daughter to get involved in clubs and sports. More opportunity to meet new friends.

The best thing I saw after reading your post was that you have kept the lines of communication open with your daughter. This is so very important. When speaking to my daughter about relationship issues, I try to keep my opinions at bay but offer her input on how I would respond or react to the situation. If someone doesn't like the best of you, there are plenty of other people that will see your light :)
Your girl will be just fine. Remember, she will stay in contact with just a few from High School. No reason to fret! This too shall pass.

I would urge you to work on loving your daughter just as she is. And encourage her to do the same. If she has to pretend to be someone that she is not to be "friends" with this group, then they are not really her friends. It might take some time, trial, and error to find a few friends that she really clicks with. But truly, the most important lesson that your daughter can learn right now is that she is good enough just as she is, and that she doesn't need to change to please others (true for friends as well as for future boyfriends).

I really can't stress this enough. I see you telling her that she's too loud, that she can't talk about her home, she's too argumentative, she's a little too tall, she's ok looking but not beautiful, she can't talk about her new friends in front of her other friends. These are all opposite of the messages that she should be hearing from you, in my opinion. Every person is unique, and she needs her mom to have her back in encouraging her to be the wonderful person that she is. And the best way for her to find friends that support and encourage her is for her to find friends who like her for who she is, not some other person that, for some unknown reason, you keep telling her that she needs to be instead of being herself.

As for concrete ideas for your daughter, encourage her to try new clubs and sports that interest her. She needs to meet a wide range of kids, including some with interests similar to hers. Friendships take time to develop, and most often get started when people have common interests and spent lots of time together pursuing those interests.

I have a daughter who recently graduated High School (two years ago). I can tell you that from my observation most of them are insecure and wanting to fit. Her friend groups changed frequently as they developed different interests/goals.

I think with social media kids today have a harder time making true connections. They are “friends” on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and that’s good, but lacks depth.

You’ve spent a great deal of time analyzing this from all different angles. Even went as far as to state the old bff’s mother seems to be bothered by the fact you’ve moved into a nicer house...I think that’s a bit assuming of you personally. You don’t have a clue what her mother thinks unless you ask. I have found that usually people are so involved with their own lives they have very little time to be concerned about someone else’s. That seems petty to me.

Love your daughter for who SHE is and encourage her. By telling her she’s too loud or argumentative, you’re telling her to tone herself down. Maybe the issue is the other girls are afraid to state their true opinions. I’d rather deal with someone who is straight up with me any day over someone who is wishy washie. Maybe she’ll be an attorney or a victim’s advocate. Being passionate about your opinion as long as respect is in tact is a good thing. Don’t make her doubt herself. Let her be involved with debate club. Quit trying so hard to fit in with these girls. Maybe she’s outgrown them and by trying to fit she’s not being true to herself.

High School is hard enough socially without micromanaging every step. Let her be. Encourage new clubs/activities.
Help her to be content by herself with herself. High School is a learning experience both academically and socially. Let her learn. Some steps will be painful and lessons hard. They will never be as cheap to learn as they are now.

Just my thoughts.

this laser-like focus on every aspect and eyeroll and interaction between the girls is not healthy. trying to parse what your daughter is doing *wrong* and being so deeply involved in all of these teenage nuances is sending your daughter the message that social success in school is everything and that she's not measuring up.

it's normal for teens to be in this headspace. it's not normal for their moms to join them there.

who cares how pretty or how tall she is? if she's being rude, she needs to take her cues from the other girls and knock it off, but if you're instructing her to be less 'argumentative' ie challenging and debate-oriented, you're simply perpetuating the 'smile and be nice' paradigm that has plagued women for far too long.

i'm not saying it's not hard to watch your kid struggle socially. but i'm concerned at much more focused you seem to be on finding ways for her to fit in, instead of simply being strong and confident in herself. getting comfortable in her own skin will naturally attract more of HER tribe to her, instead of making her feel as if she always has to cut and paste bits of herself to fulfil some arbitrary social norm.

stop trying to devise plans to help her fit in better. ask her leading questions and then let her feel her way through finding her own solutions. you can comfort her when it's been rough, but you can't fix it for her, certainly not by analzying her group of frenemies and trying to unpack them.

maybe if she reaches out to some of the other misfit toys she'll find one or two kindred spirits. that's way better than circling the outlying regions of the popular crowd anyway.

khairete
S.

It's hard to see our kids struggling. I get that. I think that this whole dynamic is unhealthy though.

By high school, parents have to step back. It's good to support and encourage kids as they struggle with their emerging identities, their emerging hormones and sexual feelings, their changes in classes/social circles/schools/activities, their developing independence from parents.

Teens tend to over-analyze every conversation and sidelong glance and nuance. Parents who participate in this make it worse. I think it's time to encourage and bolster your daughter, to make her confident in who she is, rather than to be a Monday morning quarterback reviewing every interaction and talking about what she said or shouldn't have said or should have said. You've taught her not to brag - so stop teaching this now. Stop telling her she's argumentative so that she stops repeating her "faults" (as you've identified them) in her social interactions. She has some issues - all teens do - but she has your voice playing in her head in the middle of the lunchroom, and that has to stop.

I think you have to stop focusing and over-analyzing every little thing. Stop thinking about - and stop talking about - who is nerdy, who is "unusual," who is "mainstream," who is wealthy or poor, who is tall or stunning or attractive. Girls especially (and all teens) need people who focus LESS on appearances, not more. Your job should be to make her confident and help her find her own interests. If she's interesting and interested, she will attract similarly interested and interesting kids to her. You must stop schooling her on asking questions and showing interest in her friends - it's possible that her conversation is coming out as stilted, as sounding like she's been coached or is following a manual for social interaction. You also need to stop talking to the other mom about who should go to camp with whom, who prefers whom, and so on. She's probably too involved as well.

Most kids don't have a BFF. It's not important. Stop lamenting that she doesn't have one. She needs to be busy with activities that challenge her, that help her develop a variety of skills and competencies (over time - don't over-analyze!), and that help her have FUN! There is tremendous value to things that stimulate creativity, whether or not you (or anyone else) sees an application to college or career.

Please read Suz's response a couple of times.

Please also find a great job or volunteer activity for yourself so that you can be a role model to your daughter in this regard as well - don't just tell her about it, but show through action and example. Letting her know that you have found something of value for yourself will encourage her to find her own path instead of following what other kids are doing or what you have paved for her. You will both be much happier.

(ETA: I'm not assuming you don't have a job or worthwhile activities. I'm suggesting that you really focus on the strength it takes to do those, and make sure you daughter sees that strength so she can emulate it. I'm talking about much more overt role modeling with a "she can do it" focus rather than the "high school is so miserable and I'm so sad" focus. You can comfort her but also must strengthen her.)

I wrote an answer that disappeared. Maybe I can make this one brief. I've been both too involved and over analyzing . Both were not helpful raising my daughter.

It sounds like you're asking your daughter to change as if she could
change those relationships. She can't go back to the way it was. It is what it is. As teens experience relationships, the y have an opportunity to learn more about themselves and how to navigate as life changes. Teens learn skills that will help them their whole life.

These relationships changed as they experienced life. When she was in a different school her friends developed relationships without her. Now your daughter is wanting the friendships that she had before she left. These friends can still be her friends with a different type of friendship. We can't go back to the way it was. We adjust to the way it is now. There is nothing your daughter can do to have the friendships she had before she changed schools. The girls and your daughter are older, with different interests and different best friends.
I suggest that she can still be friends with them if she accepts that her friends have changed their friendships within their own group.

When you try to rescue her, you are over involved. When you try to figure this out for her you are over analyzing. I was over involved and over analyzed so I understand how you feel.. We mothers want to protect our children. However, teens are learning to be adults. It's necessary to let them learn from experience both good and bad.

Our role as parents is to help our children learn ways to live in an adult world. Her friendships will evolve over the coming years. This situation is an opportunity to learn how relationships change and how to accept the change.

The best way you can help her is to compationly listen, and help her move on. I suggest that more important than being once again close to these girls is to learn that life changes and she Is OK to be who she is. She can be accepted and loved without changing herself. So she talks too loud. She tends to argue. Both are Ok. As she matures
she will naturally change in ways that benefit her.

By the way , you and your daughter have tried to change the way she acts without knowing if her friends are bothered by them. I suggest a more important way to interact with is to let her know she is ok just as she is. She doesn't need to change who she is nor does she need to change the superficial parts of herself. She will gain more confidence if you let her learn how to navigate in this new developmental stage.

I learned to just listen without trying to fix it for my daughter. I only made suggestions after she had finished and then I ask her what she thinks may help. Help her learn in ways that help her mature into the adult she will soon be. An adult who is confident and not derailed by what others think or do. Accept her as she is. Make comments that build her up.

In this situation with friends, know that this is what it is. Neither one of you can change the friendships back to how they were before. Friends change, build new/ different relationships. She perhaps could be friends after she accepts them as they are now.

I suggest reading about the teen years and how parents can help them develop into confident adults.Teens need their parents support, not have a situation change for them.

Listening alone is support. Helping them figure out what to do is helpful. Ask questions instead of telling her what to do. Help her explore possibilities. Especially important is to let her know she is perfect just the way she is. Build her up so she will gain confidence in herself.

I suggest you find books that help you learn about teens, what are the ways teens learn. This could increase your confidence.

It's very hard to let let go and allow our teens to figure out life. It's difficult to change from solving their problems and helping them to learn how to solve things for themselves. It's heart breaking when our children are feeling hurt and cry. We cannot fix what happened. We can listen and commiserate.

I was in counseling when I accepted a different way of parenting, to let go of my need to fix things and to stop analyzing everything. Friends have helped me by saying, "it is what it is, no need to find out why." Except what is and consider what I can do for the way it is now.

Well, your daughter sounds awesome and like she is not doing anything wrong. Keep reminding her she is great and to just be herself. Sometimes you just don't really click with other kids. I didn't really click with friends in high school...it felt more like I had kind of superficial friends. No one was mean, but no one was the best friend ever. Now that I look back on it...it was probably just a personality thing...sometimes you really connect with people and sometimes you don't and honestly, it is hard to find those people in life that you connect with. I went to a really small academic liberal arts college and then BAM I met great friends I really clicked with and we are still friends to this day. I mention it was a small college bc I think that that kind of setting really helps one to make great friends...you are not lost in the crowd like in a large university. I hope your daughter can find a great friend....maybe she can branch out and meet someone new that is not in this group.

I know you said that you didn't need any more responses but I really wanted to give my 2 cents! Kids change so much at this age. Their interests change and friends drift apart. It was good to encurage her to make friends in the sports she's trying out for. That way she will have friends with common interests. You said that most of the group is in theater. My experiance with theater kids is they kind of keep to themselves with other "fine arts" friends. I think its cause theather, band and chior kids are a lot of times a little different and sometimes odd and that is who they feel they fit in with and that understand them. Try not to stress too much! I know easier said than done. I hope things get better and easier for her and you. Some may think you are over thinking or over involved but that's who you are and nothing that someone on here says is going to change your worry about your child. And you love your daughter and want her to be happy.

Middle school and high school are the worst. But MOM...you are killing me. You just need to be your daughter's soft spot. The place she can come home to and be loved on, not judged. Not trying to figure out if she talks too loud, if she's too argumentative, if her house is too big, if her friend's apartment is too small....yadda yadda yadda.
Friends change, life changes. Quit trying to tell your daughter to fit in with these girls. Help her be comfortable with who she is and then people will be attracted to her.

Your post has quite a bit of info to keep track of, but I have a sophomore in HS and we switched schools also (went to a separate "high performing" middle school, then to a different high school outside our neighborhood mostly for sports and other programs they offered).
My dd had a rough time in 9th grade...many kids already had formed friend groups. She joined a ton of activities and even though she didn't have close friends, she always had people to do things with. Most of her close friends were people she keeps in touch with since elementary school.
What I have found is that as high school progresses, she gets closer and closer to certain people that have her values, etc. No kid at this age is totally happy...that's the bottom line. People always feel left out at one time or another. I've learned to stay out of it. I let her join all the activities she wants, but that's it. Also, she'll be getting her driver's license at the end of the school year. I think that will make a big difference because she won't have to stay at school during lunch if things aren't going well with her friend group.
Anyway...this sounds like a normal kid and a normal high school situation. Every kid out there feels the same and has the same friend issues.

The biggest thing I see missing from your post is extracurriculars. You say that your daughter does *not* do theater - what *does* she do, outside of going to classes? Extracurriculars (community service, sports, clubs) can be a great way to grow as an individual and meet people with shared interests.