Hi Moms..
I have two daughters - ages 7yr and 9yr. My oldest seems to be going thru a transition period with her dad. We have been seperated/divorced for several years and "dad" is not around very much at all. He just comes and goes when it is convenient for him. What he does not realize is that my daughters no longer sit around and wait for him...neither do I. He does not come on his regular scheduled visitation...he maybe comes once every other three months or so to see the kids. Well, he had them for the month of July as noted in our decree and after being an a-hole and not allowing me to see my daughter for her bday or letting me talk to the kids while they were gone, he decided half way thru the month that he could no longer be bothered with them. He told me to take them back. LOL, typical. Anyway, it's been 3 weeks and now he sent me an email that he wants to come see the kids the 19th-21st (a regularly scheduled visit) however, my daughter is wanting to reschedule as we are having a family birthday party for my husband that weekend that neither of my girls want to M...especially my oldest. For the first time, she asked if she could call her dad and ask him if he could reschedule the visit. I told her that a decision like that is something that she needs to discuss with her dad. I cannot tell him "no". It caught me off guard that she would want to reschedule. She was all grown up! She grabbed a calendar, called her dad and asked him to reschedule for the following weekend as she has a party to go to that weekend that she does not want to M.. (( I was shocked )) Anyway, he told her that he would see if he could do it that next weekend but if not "just forget it". Well, of course she felt bad (he tends to do that to both kiddos). She told him that if he could not reschedule, that was fine, she would come see him. He told her that he would call her back tonight. She hung up and started to cry...I felt so bad. We had a talk and I did explain to her that she should not feel bad for wanting to reschedule but that it is a decision that she may start making. I explained how important it is for them to see their dad and spend time with him. I also explained to her that if she wants to make L. adjustments like that here and there because something else has already been planned (since he is not at all dependable) that it's normal and okay for her to want to do that. I also explained that I have to follow what the judge decided...therefore, I can't tell him "no" and ask him to switch. It needs to be something between them.
I guess my question is...has anyone else been thru this with their kids? How old were they? How did you handle it with them? Was I right or wrong for letting her ask him herself? I don't want either of my kids to ever feel in the middle.
I am still learning sometimes as there will always be 'firsts' when it comes to a divorce with kids involved. There is no right or wrong answer as long as a parent encourages a relationship with the missing/un-involved parent, which I do constantly. But, I do see where she is coming from. He rarely comes and we have always scheduled our weekends based on the "what if he comes" scenerio. I think my kids are just getting tired of that.
** added (to answer a good question) - the party was planned by my sister in law, it is for my husband and for her husband as well. The party is at her house. She planned it that weekend based on the fact that my kids are always with me and the fact that my step-daughter will also be with us. Usually when parties are planned, she is not always with us (we have her every other week for a week at a time) and finally, my SIL was able to plan a party (before school starts) for the guys where all 3 of our girls could be there. My FIL and MIL are also coming to town for the party. I would never personally plan a party on a weekend I could potentially not have my girls. I would be setting myself for failure. :) Good question...but unfortunately, I did not plan it. **
Pretty amused by one of the comments to me so far....I obviously cannot share my entire situation with you all - so, it's funny how when certain things are shared, some feel as though you are full of "drama". Instead of going back and looking at past questions people ask, just take the question for what it is. If you don't have any advice to give based on the question at hand, move on to the next question. I can take criticism for sure, especially from an online site but don't pass judgment on someone being dramatic until you have stepped even 5min. in their shoes or situation. You have NO clue!
I know that we all come here for advice, not to be judged...well, at least I do. I have not seen one person on here who is asking to be judged by their posts with a "please judge me" slogan at the end. I have come to this site for advice when I feel I need it most and want a complete unbiased opinion. For the record (for those who judge) I am there for my daughters every single day of their lives. I am the one who has had to pick up all of the broken pieces of my life and of my kids lives which my ex left behind. Some people have no clue what it is like to experience these types of situations with their kids which is why I asked "who has been thru this with their kids and how did you handle it". I am not a perfect mom and I have yet to meet one in my life. If you are that perfect mom, I would love to meet you to get completely educated on all of the right answers 100% of the time with no mistakes. We all make mistakes. I don't want my daughter to feel in the middle, ever. PERIOD. Again, this is why I came here to ask this question is because I have never been faced with her wanting to reschedule a visitation.
To everyone else, thanks for your input so far...I appreciate it.
You were not wrong for letting her ask herself. You can't tell him no but you can ASK him to switch.
I always dealt directly w/ my son's father because he and my son would not be clear with each other and leave things so open ended. I would say something like "Michael has a birthday party to go to, will you be able to take him or do you want to get him after?". We had stopped waiting on him too.
Ya know, after reading your drama last month about his kidnapping the kids (paraphrased) for a month and not letting you see them, I have to wonder if your daughter didn't decide to spare herself more drama and deal with it herself. Not because she is so grown up but because the situation forced her to grow up.
Your ex needs to stop punishing the kids because he can't take your drama. I would imagine that is why he tried to take them for so long, so he could enjoy them without interacting with you.
I am not saying this to be mean, I am saying this because I doubt anyone else will point it out. You, whether you want to admit it or not, are part of the problem. You also have the ability to make changes in yourself.
MY daughter and her ex both change plans for visits based on what else is happening. I suggest that it should be you who does the negotiating with their dad, your ex. Court orders are intended as a guide. And court orders are for the parents and not the children. Yes, sometimes they have to be followed to the letter but there is always room for negotiation when the parents are reasonable.
I don't think it's fair to have your daughter do the asking. It is putting her in the middle of an adult situation. If this were me, I'd call him and tell him that your children have plans and won't be available. Because he doesn't show much of the time this should not be a legal problem. He's in violation of the court order, already. He has no grounds to take you to court for violation. He can reschedule or not. That's his responsibility.
Our rule was that things come up and if a change was REQUESTED it needed to be approved by all adults. So my stepkids could not only ask their mom if they could stay here for a party, but they had to make sure it was ok with us and we weren't going to be out of town or something. The parent whose scheduled time it was could veto the change.
I see where she's coming from. I was kind of in her shoes as a kid. But I think that some guideline needs to be used or you'll all be at the mercy of the kids' whims. We also try not to schedule family things on weekends that are not ours and the kids' friends learned to ask what weekends they'd be in this town or that one.
It's tough, but you need to lead this one and direct both the children and the ex toward a routine and reasonable plan for this. These events will be more and more common as the kids get older, and schools don't go by parenting schedules, either (for those we informed the other parent as soon as we knew and made arrangements accordingly).
You might also make it that you/the girls will wait for x time past the normal pickup time and if he's not there and hasn't called, you just go on with your weekend. Let him know this and document it if necessary.
I think 9 is a L. young to literally be the one to have to ask. My SD is 13 and any changes to the visitation schedule are discussed between the parents. She moved in with us 7 months ago and hasn't seen her mom since February and her mom recently texted her to see if she wanted to come visit and we let both of them know that those arrangements will continue to be made by the parents with input from the child.
While I think that it's good to give your children a voice in this, I would be concerned that by having her do the asking, you are literally putting her in the middle of what should be an adult decision. The idea that you can't tell him no sounds like a bit of a cop out - he doesn't hold up his end of the visitation schedule so there is no need for you to adhere to the letter of it either. What's he going to do, drag you to court because you asked to move something a week? After keeping your girls for only half of his summer visit? Not likely.
Again while I think it's great that you listened to your daughter's wants, don't put her in the middle and have her negotiating with her father. That's an uncomfortable conversation that it best left to the adults.
We always listen to our kids when it comes to visitation schedules. We try to modify the schedule so they get the best of both worlds. It is hard enough being a kid and having to go back and forth between houses so we try to make it as easy as possible.
She is only 9 years old. I kind of feel as though it was your job to handle that for her or at least allow your husband to handle that for her. I never would have put my child into that situation knowing the kind of manipulative and unkind father they have.
Long story short, you should be documenting everything. Each time he is late, types of conversations they have and your daughter's resonses to his comments. Once you have established at least a 3 month - 6 month pattern of behavior, you march is sorry butt back into court and request supervised visits or some kind of parenting class for him or modified visitation schedule since the originally ordered schedule isn't working.
But why would you plan a party for your husband on a weekend you know the kids should be with their Dad?
I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I think you need to reschedule your husbands birthday party since the girls do not want to M. it.
:(
Edit* Thanks for answering the question. Well then, in a perfect world every divorced couple would be co-parenting, sigh. In which case regardless of what the kids have planned for any given weekend, whichever parent in charge of them that weekend would take them there. Like another person said.....(not because there's anything wrong with HER calling her Dad herself but you may find the wording better) 'The kids have a party to go to this weekend. Would you like to take them, or did you want to reschedule?' Parties are a part of their life and if he's going to parent them.....see? Least that's what I had to do for years.It turned out, their father nearly ALWAYS didn't take them when the kids had plans, and since they're three busy kids...but that's his choice.
:(
While it's normal for kids to express wants or feelings, it's not a good idea to allow them to make decisions or requests when it comes to changing schedules.
I went through a very hideous divorce. We were in mediation often. It was made very clear to my ex and I that working out the schedules was between the adults. That's not kid territory.
For instance, if one of our son's friends sent home a birthday invitation that fell on dad's weekend, it was up to me to contact dad and let him know that our son really wanted to go, but, if they had other special plans already, our son would just have to understand. And, vice versa. My son was invited to things with kids near his dad's house and wanted to go, but it was also a weekend where we were having family from out of town. So, we could compromise if possible. If you have something planned for a month and something comes up with a week's notice, you can't always change things.
I know for a long time, my ex would ask my son what he wanted and of course my son would say what his dad wanted him to say for fear he'd be mad when in reality, what he wanted was to keep things the same because we had other plans. There is NOTHING wrong with being flexible. I've traded a weekend because there were historical sailing ships my ex wanted to take my son to tour. He traded weekends when we went to stay with my mom after an operation. We definitely got better at agreeing to things as we went along, but it was pretty much pounded into our heads that the kids aren't the ones that make the decisions. They aren't the ones in charge of abiding by or changing the schedules. That's adult stuff. Your daughter is only 9. It's not her job to make or change the schedule. Hopefully, you can talk to your ex and trade time so she can participate in something important to her. And if he wants to verify that's what she truly wants, that's when she talks to him. Not beforehand.
My son is 16 now and his dad and I still discuss changes first. We've been divorced basically my son's whole life so it took a lot of trial and error, for sure, but the children should never be the messenger.
My ex had a first wife and they let their kid do whatever he wanted to the extent he basically had no parental judgment involved because they both wanted him to like them best so anything HE said he wanted, he got. Neither one of them would dare tell him no to anything he wanted. He was calling the shots and he knew it. Being a kid, he didn't care if it was inconvenient or they fought about it as long as he got what he wanted. You do NOT want to set up a situation like that.
My ex and I communicated in writing as well as verbally. Everything was written down and unless it was some type of last minute emergency or unforseen thing, we had to give each other at least a week's notice, in writing. That was done to keep the child's schedule as predictible as possible.
Yes....sometimes things come up.
I personally do not think it's the child's job to negotiate schedules. I say that because of all my experience with the California courts frowning upon it.
My ex kept trying to say that my son only wanted to be with him because he's a boy and needs his dad. They used the example of some kids who will say they want to live with their father because he has a bigger screen TV or a swimming pool or they don't have to do homework while they're there.
Any kid worth their salt will want what they want and what they want isn't always best.
If your ex is agreeable to letting your daughter attend this party, then you have to tell him that you are willing to give up x,y, and z so that he doesn't M. any time with them. It's fair and equitable and something that you adults should work out. If he says no, he says no. I've told my ex no when he asked me the night before Thanksgiving if he could have our son when it was our scheduled time. That's why we went to giving each other advance notice and letting each other think about it without saying yes or no right away.
I mean no offense and I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, but your daughter is not the messenger or the decision maker and you'll be in for a world of hurt if you put her in that position.
Just my opinion and again, no offense, I promise.
I am going through the same thing right now. My children may M. out on family functions because their father is insisting it is his time with them when he did not ask me. However they rarely ask dad to change his plans and just sacrifice their happy moments. Let him know that you need a 30 day notice in the future so that you can keep that week open. Good Luck!
I guess Im against the norm here. My kids have always asked both of us ( my ex and I) if there was something they wanted to do with the other parent when it was the oppisite ones weekend. We would give our answer, some times it was yes and sometimes it was no. Then they would be upset for a while but dealt with it and understood. Usually ( not always) would either of us get on the phone and talk to the other. If it was something big and we knew way in advance then we would call and talk to each other. But honestly if the kids want to switch neither of us have a problem with the kids asking. I guess neither one of us ever saw it as an issue or gave it a second thought. Plus it has been an excape goat in the past for when we really didn't want to speak to each other!
Good luck and I feel what is best is ask him what his wishes are next time, you or if he is comfortable with the children asking. But like you said he isn't reliable and at least you respected him enough to even ask!
