Sad over Friendships

i'm sorry, i can't offer much in the way of help because i was never this inextricably entwined in my kids' friendships.
khairete
S.

I suggest that you buy our check out the book "Queen Bees and Wanna Bees" and read through it with your daughter.

What it comes down to is this: You are entirely too enmeshed and involved in your daughter's friendships. Furthermore, your attitude is that she is forever affected by this bossy girl, and that you are as well. This is absurd, in my opinion. You, as the parent, should be guiding her to be resilient, not marinate in how hurt she is over a dysfunctional friendship that didn't work out when she was 10.

So, how do you process these feelings with your friend's daughter being friends with the mean-girl who was mean to your daughter? You remind yourself that you have no business becoming emotionally invovled in this situation. You remind yourself that a healthy self does not cross into other people's emotional territory, and to do so is controlling and codependent behavior.

It's not all about your and your daughter. This is not the P. and Little P. show. Remember that.

So your upset with your friend because she lets her daughter have once a month play dates with a child who hurt your daughters feelings THREE years ago?

You need to let things go and stop carrying around other people's ugliness. Clearly this is occupying way too much of your brain space. You are teaching your daughter how to live. She's learning to hold on to pain and hurtful actions by others, blame friends for the personal social choices they make and wallow in sadness.

Why is she isolated? Focus on the positive relationships in her life, reaching out to people in friendship and asserting herself when someone oversteps their bounds. Help her learn and grow, this is her social life not yours.

If you really can't do that then I think you need to talk to someone about your own hangs ups about friendship and life.

I think you need to separate YOUR friendships from your daughters friendships.

That is my opinion.

Your daughter needs to be in control...especially at the age of 13!

Perhaps there is an 'assertiveness training' that you can google that will assist your daughter i standing up for herself.

And you need to keep separate YOUR friendships- and not make them contingent on your daughter and her friends...

Otherwise, I suggest, in 5 years YOU will be left with no friends - and your daughter will be moving on in life.

Sorry to be so candid, but this is how this 'reads' to me.

best

Of course!
We like when our friends agree with us!
But--kids & frienships can be tricky.
We can't control the frienships that other people maintain or let go.
I'm sure this little brat will get her due eventually--those types usually do.
I feel like parents are too involved the the social lives of their kids.
You need to accept that your friend and her daughter have the right to be friends with whoever they choose to, and that it's not a reflection on you or your daughter in any way.
When it's a poor choice--it's actually a reflection on them.
So if you CANNOT get past it? Give it some space.
Don't worry, your daughter is going to find several friends if like mind, then you'll have a hard time believing this all ever affected you this much.
Let it go.
Be Switzerland,
If these are good friends, don't jeopardize the good friendships over bad ones.

I think you would do best to stay out of it, tell your other friend that you had issues with their family in the past and just want to move on, and not be a sounding board for any venting on her end. If she complains to you, say that this topic is a sore subject for you and your DD, and you don't want to talk about that other family anymore.

Pushy Girl and her mom hurt you and your daughter. It happened, and there are two ways you can deal with it. You can choose to leave it in the past and move forward, or you can choose to let it keep affecting you as you are right now. Personally, I would try and let it go.

Try to remember that your friend is the one being hurt now. Isn't it sad that she isn't able to see how much happier she and her daughter would be if they would just eliminate this family from their lives?

When this friend of yours complains, I would listen, don't say much beyond, "Wow, that is so frustrating," and look for an opportunity to change the subject. Then think to yourself, "Wow, it is so nice that these people are no longer in my life!"

Some of my friends are also friends with people I don't like. I don't get to choose other people's friends.
Some of my friends don't like some of my other friends. Other people don't get to choose my friends.
Let's call your friend A and Pushy Kid's mom B. Your friendship with A needs to be about what happens between you and A. Not about your daughter and PK, not about your daughter's friend and PK, not about you and B, not about A and B.
Sounds to me like A's kid is still in the same situation yours was, would still be in had PK not shunned her. In the long run, being shunned by PK was a good thing for your kid, but A's kid is going to have to summon the guts to walk away if she doesn't want to be pushed around anymore. Or A is going to have to summon the guts to walk away from PK's mom. Or all of the above.
But until that happens. your feelings are what they are.
If you're hurt, say so. See what she says.
But don't be surprised if nothing changes. Had PK not pushed your kid out of her inner circle, you would still be tolerating her mom's behavior too.

Please go talk to a counselor about this. I'm not saying this to be harsh, but because I used to think the way you do and get caught up in the whole "how can you still be friends with Betty Lou when she treated me so badly?"

You are expecting her to join your battle and wage war against a person she does not have enough of a problem with to avoid. Your expectations of your friend aren't reasonable and your boundaries with her are really fuzzy.

She has her own relationships to maintain. We all get caught in other people's expectations. Currently, I am getting leaned on by two separate entities -- who both only want the best and mean well-- on how to handle a situation, in two distinctly different ways. Neither seem to understand that I am operating from a place of knowing I will be in long-term relationships with the others involved-- and that I am aware we all have our own agendas.

It may be that your agenda is to remove this toxic woman as far as possible from your life and that your friend's agenda is to be very politic about things.
Her daughter will have to learn, for herself, to stay away from this other girl. Heck, I see this happen *constantly* at my son's school. Kids who should know better go back for more. THEY have to figure out why they don't want to be around that person that hurts them. Your friend will have to decide for herself what she wants to do. Right now, having the expectation that your friend will drop this 'pushy mom' like a hot potato because you did isn't a reasonable one.

Go talk to someone and find out why you expect such an unreasonable degree of loyalty from another adult (which you aren't married to). This expectation of loyalty might be the norm in high school, but from a 40-something-old perspective, it's only going going to continue to burn you and you will only be continuously disappointed.

You thank your lucky stars that you are out from under that family's sphere of influence and you hope your best friends family wakes up some time soon.
That's about all you can do.

Please get the book "Queen Bees and Wannabes" and read it yourself and discuss it with your daughter too. A lot of the girls' behavior is very well outlined there. PG is probably a queen bee, and your daughter (and the other girl) are followers who always pay a price for the queen's pleasure. The book can help you get it into perspective.

Regarding your own feelings: I might normally say to let this go or that you shouldn't even be thinking about another person's child's friendships, BUT then this jumped out at me from your post:

"My best friend doesn't like the girl or the mom. Her daughter has been bullied by her and still goes back for more and the mom lets her, even though she complains to me about it the whole time."

If your friend's daughter were seeing Pushy Girl (let's say, PG) but you were not being talked to about it, or complained to, that would be one thing. It's totally the other family's prerogative, and the girls could have a different dynamic than your child did with PG.

But, yikes, your friend instead lets you know the play dates are happening and then complains about PG and PG's mom to you. I would be hurt as well. It's just bad form and thoughtless on her part, but consider for a moment two things about your friend:

First, I think maybe your friend is seeking your validation for her dislike of PG and the mom, frankly. Friend is probably hoping you will engage in a good vent with her and confirm her dislike of them both. Do you do that with her, or do you change the subject whenever friend brings up PG and mom to you?

Second, your friend dislikes PG as a friend for her child, yet she's still letting her child play with PG. Your friend has no spine, really, and is letting her child run the show, if her daughter's the one pushing for play dates (despite PG being bossy to her?). It's sad more than it is cause for anger, because your friend is caving and not following her mom instincts and just saying no. It's very easy to taper off a kid friendship that is based just on once a month play dates and where the kids don't even see each other in school.Maybe it'll help to see your friend as wanting validation and caving to these play dates -- it means she's pretty weak-willed, frankly. Maybe that'll help you see her as more pathetic than disloyal.

Also, why do you say that your friend "never defends me to" PG's mom? That's unclear to me. Why would friend and PG's mom be having conversations about you, and if they did, how would you know what was being said unless friend is blabbing to you about every single interaction she has with this woman?

If friend IS doing that, it's time to say, when she next brings up PG/mom, "Hey, you know, my Sally had issues with PG-Name a while back. I don't know how to react when you bring up PG and Mom, since I think you know already that we don't see them any more. If your daughter wants to play with PG that's fine, but that family's not on our radar any more. Maybe you can talk to PG's mom about it if the girls are not getting along." Then change the topic. Every. Single. Time.

If friend just persists, I'd simply have to say, "You've told me repeatedly that you dislike PG as a friend for your girl, so as your friend I have to ask, why do you let your girl keep seeing her?"

Short answer is that you help your daughter heal from the hurt. How? By providing and encouraging new opportunities to make new friends.

Just about every child (and adult) has been hurt in a friendship at some point. It's sad, for sure. Yet, it is essential to learn how to move past the hurt and get on with life. Otherwise, you risk isolation, living in victim mode (by this I mean not seeking new friendships for fear of being hurt), and missing wonderful opportunities to make new friends.

You're letting the past experience with PG define your daughter's existence in the present, and you are wasting way too much time in your head on a person who no longer matters to you. Make a vow that this stops today. Teach your girl about what real friendships look like so she can seek out solid friends and learn to remove herself quickly if she finds she's in toxic relationships in the future.

I get that you're hurt, too. What this other mom did was really awful, and at the same time, you must see that it's time to chalk this up to an unfortunate experience in life, learn from it, and move on to new things, new experience, and new friends. You're probably saying, 'easier said than done,' but really, what's the alternative? Staying stuck in sadness over a losing a (bad) friend years ago? That's not where you want to be, and it's certainly not what you want for your daughter.

So, how do you process your feelings? Well, first you acknowledge them, which you have. Next, you make a CONSCIOUS decision to NOT let these feelings define you or prohibit you from moving on and developing ties with new people. You might need to do this every day for a while until it becomes your new reality.

You don't let these feelings keep you from forming new friendships. You make another conscious decision to start letting these feelings go, and you may have to repeat this again and again each day until you have no more need to hang onto them. One way you can do this is to be candid when your other friend mentions mean mom and PG. You can simply tell your friend, "I felt really hurt when Megan and her daughter treated us so badly. I don't want to waste any more of my time on conversations about her." And MEAN it. No more time wasted on this person.

As others have recommended, the book "Queen Bees and Wannabees" is a great place to start. Get started this weekend with making plans for summer, perhaps camps, sports groups, whatever your daughter is interested in so she can look forward to meeting new friends. If she's getting ready to go to high school in the fall, encourage her to think of clubs, activities, and organizations to get involved in to widen her opportunities to meet new people.

Good luck with this. You'll feel so much better when you're on the other side of this.

J. F.

ETA after your So What Happened:

Maybe you should talk to a lawyer about threatening to sue her for libel. Maybe if your lawyer writes her a stern letter, she will shut her mouth. You never know - it might help. Some people will only stop when it hits their pocketbook...

Original:
P., it has been a long time now. I really think that you ought to talk to a counselor. You need to get past it and you need to get your daughter help. You both are in a holding pattern with this and neither of you are going to get better if YOU can't.

I honestly think it is important to go get counseling.

Sometimes we just have to blurt out "This hurts my feelings, can you stop for a moment". I have been friends with people for very long times and there is no perfect relationship. There are always going to be hurt feelings and little things that make it hard for us to not feel slighted. So you do need to openly ask her a question to try and bring the topic of the conversation to what happened in the past.

Such as.

"BFF, it really seems like you don't like pushy mom or her girl...why do you let your daughter go over there? I mean, you guys decided a long time ago to cut ties with them and I got caught up in the middle of that and they dropped us over it but you went back and started being friends with them. I'm so confused about all that, what happened, why do you let her go over there?".

Then sit and see what happens. If you word it right, maybe leaving out the "They dropped us/we got caught in the middle part" then she should feel safe and comfortable to open up and talk about what happened and why she decided to let her daughter be friends even after she said they weren't going to let them be friends anymore.