What do you do when your child is out of control and you've tried everything?counselors grounding spanking taking things heatwave tried it all scaring her nothing seems to work.when she gets in trouble she's manipulative ,she says nobody likes me everyone hates me we reassure her this isn't true we have two other kids in the house and don't have this problem with them.at my wits end please help she has gotten suspended from school7 Times in two years she refuses to do her work tells the teachers no runs away from them.hits her 3 year old brother.screams at her siblings yes she is a middle child.most of the problems are at school or related to homework,she'll lie and hide her work so she doesn't have to do it and she can do the work that's not the problem she doesn't want to.she back talks argues .we have tried giving her extra attention and always tell her were here for her we love her anytime something's bothering her she can talk to us she is my red head and she does have a temper .
I will talk to her doctor about a physical work up and add or adhd test and see if asking her more questions about her behavior and feelings when we have these issues
Suspended from school 7 times in 2 years? Time to bring in the professionals, for real! Start with her Ped. and ask him/her for help!!
How long did you try counseling and what sort of counseling did you try. You need family counseling with a counselor who is experienced with children like this. This situation affects the whole family. And you need to stick with it for several months. It's taken 7 years for this to develop. You can't change it in 7 weeks, tho, with the right kind of counselor you will see some minor changes in 7 weeks.
What sort of discipline do you use? Are you administering discipline in a calm non angry manner? And are you consistent using it every day with every misbehavior? Children need definite boundaries and consistent discipline that teaches in order to feel secure. It may be that her world has become so chaotic that she is frightened causing her to act out in anger.
Sounds like you've labeled her as being manipulative, mean, rude, disrespectful,a liar, etc. Stop calling her that to her face. She is living up to your expectations. Tell her she's capable of being a good girl and that you're there to help her learn how to succeed. I've seen parents give their child a label of liar and sure enough the child fulfilled that description their entire childhood, on into middle school and beyond. We have to tell our children that their behavior is wrong but that they are a good child. Her lying is wrong but she is definitely capable of learning to change the behavior when she knows that she's good.
Do you respect her? She learns about respect from her parents. If you yell at her, call her names, she'll do the same to you and other adults. Do you ask for her opinion and respect that opinion even when you don't agree or do you tell her she's wrong? etc.
When she says nobody likes her, everybody hates her, give her sympathy and don't try to talk her out of feeling that way. From your description it may actually be true. When you're so upset with her why would you love her? That's the way she feels. Tell her that you're sorry she feels that way. Give her hug, hold her if she'll let you. Show her with actions that she's loved.
In that vain, how much time do you spend with her having fun? It's so easy when kids misbehave to get caught up in correcting them that we forget to also give them approval and positive attention.
I assume you've talked with the school counselor. They are a good resource and would have an understanding about what is happening at school. Why has she been suspended and what does the school suggest doing?
Have you talked with her when all is calm about how to manage anger? What can she do when she's angry? Also, about why she's angry and show her different ways to change her thinking so that she doesn't get angry. There are good books by someone Ellis, that you can get at the library to help with this. I urge you to read them not only for your daughter but also yourself.
She could be doing some of the acting out because she sees you as acting out when you're angry. My granddaughter is so very much like her mother. LOL They both handle anger in similar ways. Of course my daughter doesn't give this as much importance as it's needed. You are your daughter's role model. You don't intend for her to follow your ways and perhaps I'm way off and you do handle anger appropriately. Of course you don't hit or break things. You may have a job and know when to keep your anger undercover and have found ways to get rid of the anger. She's only 9 and doesn't know those skills. Teaching her skills, while acknowledging and allowing the anger, will be helpful. It's OK to be angry. It's not OK to lie, hit, scream, etc when you're angry. Show her what is OK to do.
Let a counselor help figure out why she's angry and also teach her skills. You need to be involved too because some of her anger is about her interaction with others. She will learn much faster if she sees you as willing to work thru this together.
My granddaughter is, upon advice from her pediatrician, starting with therapy with a therapist who specializes in ADD and ADHD issues. She's 12 and acts very similarly to your description of your daughter. She lies about homework and doesn't turn in her work. We're finding out that that is related to her ADHD.
She has kept saying she doesn't understand assignments and because they seem so simple to us we assumed she was lying about that because she lies about such obvious things as saying she has done the assignment or that she's turned it in when she's not done so. She's smart and we assumed she could do the work. Now we're finding out that it's possible that with the skills she has now she can't do the work. One of the goals of therapy is to help her learn how to deal with this lack of ability to use the info as it's presented. It may be that she needs to hear the assignment in different words and/or she needs to have the time to write it down and discuss it with the teacher so she can understand it. She's on a 504 plan and so can have this help if the therapist thinks this will help her.
Testing your daughter for ADD/ADHD is a good idea.
My granddaughter is also very angry and states she's proud to be annoying. I suggest that part of this is caused by her mother repeatedly telling her she's annoying and not teaching her a different way of interacting. Her mother complains, gets frustrated, uses a cranky tone of voice but doesn't give her a consequence or redirect her activity or tell her what to do instead.
Her mother means well. She was given a high needs baby/child and what will work with most kids often doesn't work with my granddaughter. I strongly suspect it's similar for you. You love her, you want to be able to parent her so that she's more even tempered and successful in school. But she needs different techniques than the average child. You can learn how to deal with her with professional help She will be OK.
After you second post: Medication is not the only way to treat ADD. My granddaughter does take medicine now. Her mother didn't agree to it for a couple of years after diagnosis. And my granddaughter is getting professional help to learn how to organize and focus because of her diagnosis. She is also on a 504 plan which has provided her with some extra services at school. She received extra tutoring in writing and math. She is allowed to do make up work and testing in the special ed office so that she has less stimulation and is better able to focus.
I urge you to have her tested and go from there. Medication is just one small part of treatment.
it sounds as if you've tried a lot of solutions, but how long have you stuck with any of them? consistency and firmness are huge.
clearly you are involved and concerned, but your high maintenance girl may need something special. boundaries and discipline are extremely important, but equally important are positive attention, quiet non-judgmental listening, and one-on-one time.
you probably need some professional help here. not because you're a bad parent, but because this one is so challenging. but please please please make sure you are consistent!
good luck.
khairete
S.
Please don't relegate this to "middle child syndrome." Because it's not. It really isn't, and it's not going to do your daughter or other children any good at all. Birth order can account for a lot of things but not this particular behavior unless that's how you choose to classify her behavior.
My eldest daughter is very strong-willed with ODD and ADHD. She has been a challenging child since she could first talk and was mobile. I've always been very consistent with disciplining her and while it's not ever easy, it works. I have to be more strict with her than with my other daughters.
I also had to choose early on to describe her attributes in a different manner than using negative terminology. That wasn't helping me bond with her to use terms such as "manipulative" or stubborn, high maintenance, selfish, poor sport, argumentative, etc.
It took a while but I realized that a lot of these things would end up being helpful to her in her adulthood if I could teach her to use them to her benefit. She's very thoughtful and generous, not selfish, but when she feels backed into a corner or forced into something she gets defensive. She needs to be able to feel that she's making the choice herself. I've learned to give her limited choices when it makes sense. We've discussed that half the time she'll get choices, but when she doesn't get a choice it's for a good reason.
She's not necessarily a poor sport, but she's very competitive. She wants to do well in what she does, and in her eyes something isn't done well enough or up to par unless she's number one. She's learning that coming in 2nd or 3rd is pretty darned excellent too, and at 12 years old it actually took the Olympics this past summer to help her realize that. She was obsessed with the Olympics and it did her a lot of good with her sibling rivalry issues. Most of the time.
She does have homework issues and always has, and organization is very difficult for her. The ADHD (severe) and her sensory processing disorder (mild) make it very difficult for her in spite of her brilliance. It's always a work in progress yet she scores A+ on all of her exams. State mastery tests? Yeah, she's always in the top 3% in our town, state, and top 10% in the country. Brilliant. But the homework... oy. We know part of it is the ODD too. She's not overtly anti-authority at school so she uses subtle ways to snub it.
Being argumentative and trying to find the loopholes in everything shows how tenacious she is and how she really thinks through an argument/discussion. She understands things. I hear all the time from her teachers how much she takes the lead in group projects and group assignments and helps teach her classmates that are having problems. She does this at home with her sisters' homework and projects because it makes her feel good, and maybe a little bit "in control" but I'm proud of her because she's using a quality that can be very difficult for good rather than evil. ;-)
Kids that have ADHD and ODD, which it's possible your has, tend to have high self esteem at times but it's fragile and can crash be down in the dumps in a heartbeat. Highs are high but lows are the lowest. She may need to see her worth as physical accomplishments. She may need actual visual proof.
If you want to test her for ADHD and/or ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder) you should take her a child psychiatrist, a pediatric neurologist, or a Developmental-Behavioral Pediatrician.
My 9 year old son is the same way. He was diagnosed with depression and ADD. We got him neuropsych testing to figure out what was wrong.
She could have depression or she could have a underlying learning issue that is making her feel like it's harder to be. This is not normal for a 8 year old. It could be a simple issue that just needs to be worked out, like memory problems or could be more like ADD. Testing can help figure out what is going on. If you don't figure this out it's just going to get much worse during the pre teens and teens.
Buy the book! "Your Defiant Child: Eight Steps to Better Behavior" by Russell Barkley on Amazon, very helpful and has done wonders for our 5 year old.
SPOILER ALERT!
WE (YOU) are the main part of the problem, not the kiddo, so be prepared to do some soul searching about how you are interacting and be ready to change. This was hard for us at first, but when we saw her behavior improve after we changed, we got more willing. Also, she relapses more when we go back to bad habits too, like spanking, yelling, being short with her, etc. "It works if YOU work it!"
It sounds like she might be looking for attention. She is getting a lot of attention from her negative behavior so that is what she is going to keep doing.
When she says "everyone hates me", maybe try turning the question back to her instead of reassuring her that isn't true. Instead, ask her why she feels that way. Ask her what kind of person people like. Ask her what qualities she has that people like. Ask her what she does that maybe people don't like. See if she can connect her behavior with the idea that no one likes her. Maybe her behavior is starting to affect her relationships - see if she can come up with that cause/effect?
What types of things does she do that make her "out of control"?
If she is manipulative, that means she knows how the system works in order to get what she wants.
It is hard to offer more specific advice without knowing what specific behaviors you are dealing with. I would definitely start with seeing if SHE can identify the repercussions or consequences of her behavior.
Ours has also been through a lot of counseling, medications, etc. She will be nine this month. Same thing-everyone hates me. I believe it's just attention seeking behavior and she sometimes resents being the oldest.
We developed a goal chart and let them all pick their goals.
Being the oldest, it's easier for her to earn stars quicker-so she likes that.
We also enrolled her to receive a big sister ( mentor). Have you tried that?
You've tried all that and she's only 8?
I would go back to the drawing board..... start with her physician. Have a physical workup and make sure there is nothing physically or neurologically that could be a cause. Then go back to the counselor. If the last one wasn't working.... try a new one. A FAMILY counselor who can help you all determine what is going on with your daughter.
It could be that she acts differently from her siblings because what works for her siblings doesn't work for her. It doesn't sound like you ever say "we tried being loving, positive and guiding her behavior by telling her what we want her to do". Have you tried that? Maybe "scaring" her isn't the answer.
I would check with the pedi. Counseling works if it's not a physical issue. If something is wrong with her body or brain, all the counseling and discipline and punishment in the world isn't going to help. I'd try the medical route just to be sure, and perhaps they can recommend other options as well. Good luck.
Mood disorder? When does she do this? At home? At school? After meals? All the time? sometimes? helps if we have some more information.
(I remember saying the old nobody likes me everybody hates me routine.There were a lot of kids in my family). Is she the middle child? Oldest? Youngest? Can you give more information?
You said you had counseling? Didn't help? Is she nice sometimes? Why? When? Have you had tests done other than counselors? Can you give some examples. We love to help out here.
You've gotten some great advice here. One more resource to add is www.EmpoweringParents.com. There is a parent forum and lots of blog posts to help you at this point and beyond. Good luck and god bless...
"Have A New Child By Friday" Dr Kevin Lehman
Not to be snarky or mean, but if none of the behavior modification books or medicine works I would consult a Priest.
Sounds wacky, but it's been done.
~A.
P.S. No artificial dyes in her food and drinks!!
My daughter started this kind of behavior early on. i was blessed with a clinic in the local college that had a great play therapist. We have been going ever since and it works wonders. We worked in concert with a parenting counselor for us for a long time as well. Now we work with her play therapist as needed for new situations where we are unsure of how to proceed. The hardest thing has been changing our parenting thinking to do what is best for her. A great resource is play therapists of america at http://www.a4pt.org/. Keep your chin up, you can get through this.
