My daughters are 4 1/2 and almost 6. My youngest daughter has been completely potty trained (even the bed) for over two years. My oldest daughter has been potty trained as well except for the bed. A couple of years ago she had some bowl problems which did put stress on her bladder and not everything is full strength yet and I have kept that in mind. She still wears pull-ups to bed. Recently, they have started peeing in the corners in the room. I thought perhaps they were waking up at night so I placed a potty chair in the room for them. However, I have caught them doing it during the day when they have plenty of time & opportunity to walk 20 feet to use the toilet properly. I have caught them both squatting on one of their beds and they were making it a contest! Last night, my younger daughter was mad at her sister and she deliberately peed on some of her sisters possessions and completely ruined them. I just understand why they do this. This seems to me to be beyond simple control issues. We have disciplined them by taking away possessions, removing privileges such as TV or computer time, etc. At one point we even removed the beds and placed pallets on the floor but it didn't help either. We thought perhaps they were needing more attention. I have four children altogether, and my husband is a full time student. We also have no vehicle and either walk or use the community bus. So as you can imagine we have a very full and busy day. My oldest son also has some developmental delays and ODD so he takes up a lot of time as well. He's gotten violent lately so that may have something to do with it too. We thought perhaps they just weren't getting enough time from us so instead of removing privileges we had them help clean up the mess, apologize to the sibling affected (this included writing a letter or drawing a card and picking up one of the siblings chores) and we made an effort to spend even more quality time with them such as reading or playing a game or preparing meals together. But it hasn't seemed to help. My older daughter especially has a very vindictive streak in her and if you make her mad, she feels she has to get back at you. When we gave them back their beds, I made sure there were full plastic liners enclosing both mattresses. I don't even remember why she was angry now, but after being disciplined she took scissors to both of the very expensive plastic liners on their beds. >.< If you have an ideas of what could be compelling them to do this or how to handle it, I would appreciate all of your answers. My husband & I are really at our wits end. Animals don't foul their nests so I just don't understand this.
I want to thank all of you for your thoughtful answers and the time you took to compose them. My husband and I have been reading them and discussing them together. Right now we're focusing on keeping my oldest sons services (PSR, councilor, etc.). Some things were filed wrong for him and we're basically being told he doesn't qualify for services although, I can watch him punch a hole in the wall over something as silly as being asked to take out the trash. >.< As soon as that is taken care of we will pursue services for the family as a whole. I also want to mention that my younger son has been getting into a lot of trouble at school for fighting etc. and at his school it takes a lot for the director to contact the parents. They now have someone coming in to help him with anger management, something we would never have dreamed of just a year or so ago. He was always a sunny little guy and now that we think about it, as his brothers behaviors worsened, so did his. :( Thank you again for all of your advice and we'll keep you updated as we can.
I was going to suggest making them clean up their own messes by themselves (which most kids don't like doing) until I saw you already tried that. I agree with the others - time for a professional.
I suggest that this is an emotional issue and that the family would benefit from family counseling. Your family has a lot of stress and I suggest the girls are expressing their anger in this way. Helping them learn better ways to express anger will help to eliminate the peeing in inappropriate places.
I had a foster child who would pee on the carpet in front of me to express anger at me. She had anger and control issues which she expressed in other ways as well. Counseling helped us both to deal with each other more effectively.
Currently, I have a grandson who has anger issues. He is possible ODD, has developmental delays and is in special ed at school. Dealing with this puts a lot of stress on the whole family. I suggest that your daughters may be reacting to this. You've already realized that they may need more attention from you and it's great that you're responding to that need. That still leaves their anger with which to deal. I urge you to make an appointment with a counselor. One of the professionals working with you and your son can probably recommend someone.
You have tried reasonable and usually effective ways to discipline and it's not working. Time for professional help.
I agree with Marda P., for the sake of your family and your sanity, it's time to bring a professional.
It almost seems like a vicious cycle; they get angry, they get disciplined which only makes them angrier, which brings on more discipline, etc. A professional therapist can help break that cycle and restore some peace to your family.
I hope this works out for you, good luck and please keep us posted!
After reading your entire post, and considering the additional attention the ODD boy receives, it sounds like attention seeking behavior to me. (You know, negative attention to a kid is better than no or a little attention?)
Family counseling might help. You could talk to your pediatrician about it.
i agree with most of the posts, except for the ones encouraging more discipline/punishment. that would only make it worse, make them more angry. they are very smart girls, have figured out a way to express their feelings and get your attention. they have strong emotions that they haven't found a better way to express. they need to know that their anger is legitimate and that you want to hear it, and learn how to express it in nonhurtful ways. and do what you can to really honor their feelings as well as make efforts to change what you can that they are angry about (for example if they want more special time with you, or if there is something specific in their lives that you can change for the better). i would stop any form of punishment, and really listen to them, encourage them to express their feelings, maybe by "fishing" (i'm guessing it's hard for you (or makes you really mad - or scared) when.....). they also could be terrified by your oldest son's violence, and maybe don't feel safe in expressing fear so it turns to anger. it doesn't sound like taking away their beds or other consequences like that would really help, since they would just pee on the floor, or the couch or even maybe your bed! (since it seems their purpose is to express their feelings in the only way that seems safe and effective to them). and i don't think forcing them to clean it up would help either. but you could just not change the sheets, so they would have to sleep on them wet/smelly, or on the floor (this would be a "natural consequence," which is generally more effective than a "logical consequence"). having said all this, i do think that it may be extremely helpful for you to find a good family counselor, as it sounds like your whole family could use some help getting back on a healthy track before the problems get worse. also it would probably be really good for your ODD son, so that he could stop being identified as the "problem" (since the problem really is in the family system and not in any individual member) - and also good for your other child, who may be taking on the (also unhealthy) role of invisible/good kid, with all the drama that's going on with the other kids. it does sound like you are a really good mom and love you children and have tried a lot of things, but i think the investment in family counseling would pay off many times over for all of you, and all of you could begin to really enjoy your family again. i'd encourage you to interview several counselors, as some are much better than others. you could interview them by phone, explaining the situation briefly and asking them what their approach would be - paying close attention to your intuition about their response. i think many counselors also offer a first (maybe 1/2 hour?) session for free. wishing you the best, keep us posted on how it goes.
I don't know that I can help with some issues you have but you might have your 6 year old checked for milk allergies. Kids who have milk allergies frequently wet the bed. OR you don't give her any milk or milk products such as cheese, yogurt, ice cream, etc for 3 to 4 weeks to see if that solves the issue and then give her milk to see if she then wets the bed again.
If it is a milk allergy or any allergies you might go to www.naet.com and see about getting them treated.
N.
Health and Wellness Coach
I would talk to your ped to make sure there isn't anything physically wrong with them. And then get some counseling for them. I am wondering if your oldest could be odd also. This could explain the getting back at you behavior. I have two son's and both are add and adhd. I do not know if odd could run in the family like adhd does.
It sounds like you have tried several "consequenses" options for them, but have you tried a rewards only approach? I just started the Kazdin method with my two and so far we LOVE it. http://www.alankazdin.com/
The deal is to praise OFTEN with any good behavior and break down the thing you want to work on into parts...and they earn points on a points chart for doing them correctly. Then they can cash in their points for fun activities or a small item in a grab bag. There isn't much punishment, aside from a chore if they do something REALLY bad, or a quick time out if it's a small set back.
So far my kids are super excited about the whole thing. My defiant daughter seems much happier and eager to please and my easy peasy son is along for the ride and working on helping me more willingly. I bet if you can get your oldest daughter to be on board with the program and doing this, then the younger one with follow suit. I imagine she's doing this because her sister is too. If this is related to attention issues (we've tried upping the attention for our oldest and it didn't seem to help too much), this would be a great way to give her/them LOTS of positive attention, at little overall time-cost to you. In fact, I have more time for myself since the kids are helping keep up more and we have many less tantrums and timeouts, which are a great time suck. Hope you find something that works for you!
All of this is just to much! I would seek proffesional help.Lots of it!!!!! Your children sound like there feeding off each other. Negative for negative. Something is not right.I would just say lots of love! Just love your children. And they need you to get them the help they need! -Sending lots of love :)
