Kids Fighting All the Time.

Here's a great parenting newsletter with practical ideas and actual words and phrases you can use: ____@____.com

Have you read "Siblings Without Rivalry" and/or "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk" by Abraham & Mazlish? They both have lots of ideas and even better a great overall perspective on how to Be with children.

Children usually aren't learning what you think you're teaching with punishments and behavior management strategies, and are often learning quite the opposite. I actually think punishment models the very opposite thing you're trying to teach them, namely that power and control struggles are normal, expected things between family members. They see you taking away enjoyed things and activities and being made to do undesired things as consequences for their behavior and they are acting out those same judgments and consequences toward one another. And complimenting their getting along, asking them for help, and talking about treating each other with respect and love can't just be more strategies designed to manipulate behavior, it has to be authentic and backed up with your being really respectful in your treatment of them and these difficult situations.

Try really seeing their conflicts from their perspective, as valid problems they're having living and being with one another in that moment, not just as behavior that needs to be stopped and "consequenced." When you come in as the punisher, you become a third person in the conflict rather than a peacemaker. But when they see you genuinely on their side and your mindset becomes one of how you can help keep their cups full of respect and love and help everyone be peaceful together, I guarantee you'll see a shift. Staying close and being proactive with ideas to prevent conflicts before or as they're starting will also help them be more successful.

H.,
First, let me tell you that you're not alone!
It sounds like they "behave" well in public, judging by your profile, and people telling you that you have, "great kids", so Kudos! My sis and I had the same age difference, and I remember bribing her to play barbies with me, or else I'd tell mom that she did "whatever it may be" so she threw an empty coffee can at me and split open my lip... hahaha! (Not funny then, but we are best friends and kid about it now)One thing we have learned growing up, is that we both perceived the same situations so differently! Both were jealous of the other's strengths for years.
My girls, (11 and 9) also argue a LOT! I, too have tried everything from rewards to punishment! One thing I've done in the past (and NEED to begin again!) Is to designate a "Mom and ME" date. I take only one of them for lunch, ice cream, the forest preserve for a walk, fishing, whatever they want (within reason), and leave the other at home with dad, (Or while the other is out with friends) It DOES make a difference.
**My older daughter went through puberty very early, and I think that hormones DO play a big part. In myself, B vitamins help to ease the mood swings, and since she does NOT eat enough veggies, I am working on getting her to where she can swallow them. We'll see if it works! Good luck, and know that the really will grow out of this stage! :)

It sounds like this is really bothering you, and them, and that you are not seeing a way to keep them from fighting. Here is a suggestion that I read about for a toddler who is aggressive to a new baby, but it might work well for your 10 and 6 year olds. For two weeks (or as long as you feel is necessary) do not let them play together or get within 10 feet of each other. They are to have no interaction at all. After the two weeks, slowly let them start doing things together again. This may be enough to break the cycle of fighting and help them remember what they do like to do together. Meanwhile, help each girl to individually find things she likes to do, and as everyone else suggested, spend some one-on-one time with them.

Good luck!

Do not have any girls but my sister has 2 girls. They are older now but when they were preteen the fought all the time, physically fought, over everything you could think about. My sister tried many things and the only thing she hoped for is they would grow out of it and they did. They are now really close at ages 16 and 17. But she swore when they were younger that they would one day hurt one another seriously but luckily it never happened.

You might consider having them see a counselor to find out why they are so mad at each other all the time.
You say the youngest in usually the instigator. It could be a case of the younger one not get enough attention from her older sister and she would rather get negative attention than no attention at all. Your older one may be sassy or sippy but she is rounding the corner into puberty and she maybe going to start her period soon. Girls at that age just sometimes want to be left along or be with their friends and your younger one may not understand this.
My advice is if you have a big enough house keep them in separate room as much as possible. If you have a finished basement with a spare room consider making a bedroom down there.

Good Luck

I only have one child but I did have 2 sisters growing up. My older sister was down right mean to us physically beating us up. We did the counseling thing and I honestly don't know if it was the counselor or not but at the time it did not really help.

It went on like this for awhile until she moved out and grew up a lot. I think a lot of it had to do with emotions and hormones on her part, although I was never as bad as that she seemed to take it to the extreme.

On the bright side, once we both grew up we are now extremely close to each other now and we talk daily if not more than once a day. There is eventual hope, but I think the next several years are going to be tough.

Good Luck.

Like some other suggestions, we also use a reward system for good behavior. The only difference is, the rewards are not handed out be me. Anyone in the family can put a poker chip in the jar of another family member when they have done something kind. (You can't ask for or demand a chip, it has to be GIVEN).

The 5 year old likes to hand them out a lot. When a big sister reads him a book or ties his shoes, he remembers. The 9 year old just gave my husband a chip for wrestling with them. Even my 12 year old game me a chip for letting her stay up late. The girls have even been known to help each other with a chore, imagine that!

It makes them look for good deeds in EACH OTHER, not trying to look good in front of Mom. When a certain amount of chips have been accumulated, I treat them to a "kindness reward". It may even be something I was going to do anyway...."How about we use 10 kindness chips and go to Kung Fu Panda tomorrow!" If one child is short on chips, there is an instant flurry of "kindness" around the house.

Hi H.,
They may be fighting to get your attention. For them any attention is better than no attention. I would try & spend some alone time with each girl every week. I know this will be hard with the new baby, but it is crucial. They may even open up to you & tell you what the real problem is.

I think a big part of the problem may be due to the last part you mentioned regarding waking the baby. I know a lot of families whose kids start acting up or out when a new child is born. Your oldest has adjusted to having one sister for 6 years and now that she's moving into her 'tween' years has to put up with mom diverting attention to the needs of the baby first.Your now middle one isn't the baby anymore and has to get used to that and find her place as the middle child of the family. I wonder if scheduling regular dates with you and each of your girls one-on-one *without the baby* might help. That and maybe rewarding them for half days *ie, we'll have mcdonalds for lunch today if you I don't hear any screaming or hurting out of the two of you this morning* and then full days, and full weeks of respectful arguing. I agree with having them work out their differences on their own- it'll help them to be better negotiators later in life. But the key is to let them work it out the same way an adult has to: nonviolently. Also- are they freshly out of school for the summer? A little bored/couped up maybe? Maybe they need a chance to have some of their own space away from each other and/or with their friends. Good luck!

Hi H.,

I have a 11 yr boy and 9 yr girl. They seem to be going thru the same as your daughters. I have found that when take items (legos, TV or even ipods) away until they can respect each other. It isn't just for a day sometimes it has gone into weeks. It does help but then it does start all over again unfortunatley. I think it is just a sister/sister brother/sister thing. Do your daughters have the same toys, do they share the same room or if separatly are the rooms decorated the same?

H.

have you tried stepping in immediately, sending them to opposite locations (not their rooms) until they have quieted down, and then bringing them together (with you or dad) and mediating the situation? i would also try taking each one of them out separately and digging in deep about what's going on all around in their lives -- jealousy/not enough time issues because of baby, peer pressure/school stuff especially for the 10 year old, general thoughts about the situation and how each one thinks it can be resolved, etc.

I almost missed the part about the baby - you snuck it in there at the end. I expect that's crucial to what is going on with your two oldest kids. You said the baby was born in December, which means that for the last six months you've had to put a lot of your attention on the baby. That might not have seemed as big of a deal while school was still in session. But, now that summer has started, they are probably really noticing the change. I agree with what one other mom said - see if you can get a chance to spend some one-on-one time with each child. Remind them how important they are to you. Your six-year-old is probaby feeling the effects of no longer being the "baby" in the house, and the eldest has yet another child to compete with for your attention. While you sound like you've been trying to reassure them, it can be tough to be heard over the baby right now. You might also want to make sure they each have time individually with you and the baby where they can play with the baby and enjoy getting smiles and laughs as part of an activity with you. I expect things will settle down again after a while, especially as the baby continues to get more and more interactive.

H., I use to teach P.E.T classes. Now they have everything on DVD with workbooks. And I taught the program to my kids when they were 6 and 8. It is a wonderful program and I think will help your whole family.

This is the only place that I know that you can get the whole program. And please, do not just purchase the book. That will never work. http://www.gordontraining.com/family-effectiveness-progra...

Or you can find out if there is a class in your area:
Tel: 800.628.1197
Em: ____@____.com

In the meantime it seems like there is jealousy going on between the girls, especially the older one. And her hormones may be preparing her for her period and she does not know what to do with all her uncontrolable emotions.

I would separate them when this happens in a loving way, have the older girl write out her feelings, then read them to you, then ask her what she believes would be best to do next time.

Have the younger one write out her emotions or draw them, and follow the same process with her.

Then have them have a discussion with you being the moderator, that means you must remain neutral. After one of the girls tells one sentence on how she feels, then the other one repeats back what she hears. The one her expresses her emotions says if that is what she is saying. If so, the "expressor" thanks the listener for listening.

The the listener becomes the expressor. And follows the same process. (this is not what they teach in P.E.T). I made this up when I was a psychotherapist.

Then you say to the 1st expressor, "What do you want to happen differently next time that will make this a better experience for you?" (the answer has to be about her, not about her sister - the older one needs to start taking responsibility for her behavior and this is the loving way to get her to look inside at herself. It is part of learning and a maturation process for parents to teach their kids.)

This may take time to get them to the above place where they will cooperate, but stick to your guns. In the beginning you really need to separate them in different rooms to think about what happened.

Good luck, M.
www.super-science-fair-projects.com

H.,

My girls are about the same ages, and we've instituted "Mom Bucks" that they can earn & trade in for prizes. I bought some trinkets at the Dollar Store & a few nicer items when I saw good sales to stock the "Mom Mall"; I also bought raffle-type tickets which I give out for positive sisterly behavior (letting the other go first, speaking kindly, praying for the other, letting the other choose the TV channel, etc.). At first, I had to really LOOK for opportunities, but they've been very involved in the process from the beginning - pricing the items, giving each other ideas on how to be nicer, making requests for what to buy next for the Mall. A couple of helpful details - I use the raffle tickets with 2 halves, so I keep 1 half with the child's name when I give it out (no meltdowns over stolen/lost tickets); I always have Mom Bucks when we're out & about - stores, trips, restaurants - and remind them of behaviors that might earn Mom Bucks; I planned ahead for clearance sales & traded new items with other moms before implementing the program with my kids to keep costs down; I've even teamed up with other moms to tell them when I see THEIR kids acting kindly to one another (parks, playdates), so they can be busted for good behavior, too! My kids like the idea of CHOOSING when & how to be nice, when to shop at the Mom Mall, whether to spend or save, . . . This incentive program has been working well for me, so I thought I'd write. Good luck!

I am feeling like the oldest is feeling a bit left out. I am a stay at home mom of 4 sons aged: 18, 13,6 and 4. When I just had the one son, things were wonderful, but when my 2nd son came 5 years later, his entire demeanor seemed to change overnight. It really has never completely changed back. What did help was spending quality time with him alone. We do it with all of the boys now. They each need to know that they are still important in your life. When your daughter misbehaves, she gets attention from you. Even if it is negative attention, it is still attention. So, see if you can find a day to just spend with each of your daughters. But especially the oldest one. While you are out maybe you can tell her how sad it makes you when you see her acting up. Tell her you know she is a wonderful person and that you love her. This works really well over ice cream or pizza. Hope this helps.

"the youngest instigates things often, but also is the first to settle down and I don't believe she's always the cause of the argument."

Doesn't matter who started it. BOTH children play a role in the situation, and you need to communicate that to them. They are old enough to take responsibility for their conduct.

Additionally, they don't have to love each other, just tolerate - at least in the short term.

I will tell you firsthand...my younger brother and I fought mercilessly. Nine times out of ten, I got in trouble for it. I couldn't win. If I stuck up for myself, I got physically beaten by my mom or verbally abused by my grandmother. If I "ignored" him, it was my fault for not having a "loving" relationship with my brother. My experience with having a sibling was so awful that I don't want to have any more than one child.

Anyway, good luck!

In addition to all these great suggestions-When my kids were about that age, I made a rule in my house that if the kids were fighting and came to me with a complaint about each other - they had to sing it. It usually ended up with both of them in giggles.

when my son says somthing unkind to the other I make him say 3 nice things about him- he hates it. many times if I catch one or both being unkind I make them write 25 times- I will respect my brother. if they argue with me I up it to 30 etc... it really works well for us. good luck!

Try the book, How To Talk so Kids will listen and Listen So Kids will Talk, by Mazlish and Faber

R.

The next time they start fighting, step back and tell them you admire how they fight with each, that it is something they are very good at. Tell them they could be like most kids and not fight or learn to get along. Tell them you love them for their individuality and walk away. They will be stumped! I guarantee they will approach you and say what are you talking about? That's when you say: "I've tried to teach you to be kind to each and not fight but you insist upon doing it, so I'm telling you I love you no matter what. I'm sorry you fight, it isn't much fun to fight, but if that is your choice...". You will be teaching them an invaluable lesson in making choices. It's a little reverse psychology but you will be calamer and they will get the message. Hope it helps!

I took a parenting course called Love & Logic. They also have a web site if you want to google Love & Logic. What they told us parents to do is tell the girls that they can fight as long as they don't disturb anyone in the family. Tell them to take their fights outside or in an area where it won't disturb others. If they do disturb anyone, they get extra chores for the fatigue and grief caused by the bickering. Supposedly, fighting without an audience is not fun anymore.