How to Deal with Other People's Kids.

I wouldn't trade childcare with her. It is unlikely to go well. Just like I would never let my son be watched by someone who might punish him, yell at him or put him in time out. Not how I discipline - so I would not think it was fair to either him or another parent who disciplined differently.

I am very lucky, my kids only seem to befriend kids who are very much like them so when they have friends over it is just like having more of the same.

Really if they brought home someone annoying I would guide them into realizing that isn't a good friendship. :p

Talk with the mom first and make sure she understands that you have rules in your house that will be enforced.If she still wants to go through with it then I'd say to give it a try. Treat her daughter the same way you treat your children. If please and thank yous are the rule then tell the girl that she needs to say please and thank you in your house. Stick to your guns on the acceptable behavior. Worst case is that it won't work out and you'll have to tell your friend that you won't be able to continue with the arrangement.

"Hey Susan, I would love to swap kids for studio time but I would like to address one concern; we obviously have different parenting styles so I want to make sure you would be ok with me treating/disciplining your daughter as my own."

I can't stand these types of parents, what a disservice to their children. I am one of those people that will tell a child that they might be able to get away with talking to others like that but it doesn't fly with me. They look at me in amazement then their little attitudes change for the better towards me not their free spirit parents. I have had friends beg me to help them discipline their kids. The funny thing is, these kids absolutely love me. They beg to come to my house. They don't ask to come see my kids, but beg to see me. They even run up to me to give me a hug. When parents can understand that kids CRAVE discipline, their will be less bullying, fighting etc.

ETA: My best friend of 27 years has an almost 15 yr old son. Almost 2 yrs ago her free spirit parenting took a turn for the worse. He was out of control towards her and refused to go to school. She even called him in sick!!!!!! She finally got me & her family involved. I convinced her it was time he went away for a while. There is a wonderful group home program not far from us (8 miles). Kids come there from all over the world to this program all for various reasons. This November will be 2 years that he's been there. The kicker is that he still loves me to death. He comes home every other weekend and several weeks during summer. He still asks to come visit me & my family. He hangs out with us, plays ball, we BBQ etc. Before he went to this home he and I had a long talk and he told me he never thought his mom loved him very much because she never told him no.

Maybe you haven't been around a lot of six yr old kids. This is not "typical six year old" anything! I've raised three past that age, seen their friends, taught first grade, that child is far from typical. Most kids that age are much better behaved for other parents than their own parents and you will not have problems with other friends for your daughter. I would hate to let this child influence your children's behavior, your six yr old may know better, but to let this child influence your younger children could be a nightmare for you. Be honest with your friend, it might be good for her to hear, other parents will not want play dates with her daughter either but they will not tell her why. Just say "we have very different parenting styles, I believe teaching my children respect for adults and rules will help them be happy and confident in life. You allow your daughter the freedom to express her self in any way and I'm not comfortable with my younger children being around this for more than a short visit."

In these situations, I turn into Mr Rogers.

Seriously. If you watch his show with a critical eye toward how he speaks to the child viewer, you'll see he's very authoritative.
"Let's do this now."
"Let's go to X... come along now, here we go."
"Now we're going to......."
He's extremely calm and matter of fact. I have a preschool teacher friend like this, and it even works with adults. I think of it as the way a tour guide might talk, very directly providing guidance so that no one gets lost.

This is what I do when I have children other than mine over. I give matter of fact "this is what we are doing now" guidance. When it comes to picking up toys for cleanup, I specifically give each child their own job. "Kiddo, I need you to put the cars in the basket. Friend, you are in charge of the Legos."

When it comes to nagging, I do not put up with it.
First request: 'Can I have the cookie?"
Answer: "We're not having cookies right now/today. THIS is what we're having."
Second request/complaint: "I want a cookie."
Answer: 'Oh, yes,you do. We're not having that today. X or Y is what I have for you.
Third time: I really want a cookie!
Answer: Are you asking because you think I am going to change my mind?
(this is usually a showstopper. It pins it right on them.)
Child: yes!
Answer: Well, I'm not changing my mind--you may have THIS. I'm all done talking about it. I'll be happy to talk about something else when you're ready...
I say all of this calmly, putting the problem back on the child. Do they accept THIS (whatever you are offering) or do they pout and sulk? If I'm actively ignoring, I'm pleasantly talking about something else or I'm being quiet and listening for a change of topic, and then I will join the conversation pleasantly, pretending nothing ever happened.

I have one child who always gets evasive and doesn't want to leave when their parent comes. I often position my body between that child and my son's room. "Oh, we're going to get shoes on now. Let's go get them." I don't offer a lot of wiggle room.

How I build trust with the child is to notice what they are doing when they are cooperating, either through a verbal recognition and interest ("I see your playdough creation is huge. Tell me about that." or "Thanks for keeping your food at the table, all of you.") and through smiling, non-verbal approval when I see them happily busy, being helpful, or being friendly with their words and actions. I do praise a lot when I see or hear appropriate behavior. "I liked the friendly way you asked me for that." or "Thanks for clearing your place." I ask them about their interests, or to expand on story they are telling.

As for your last question: Do say simply "let's try it out for a couple weeks, just to make sure this works for everyone." Make sure you are both keeping track of hours, too, so that everyone feels they're getting a good deal on this trade. I don't think it needs to be a friendship buster. Do let your friend know that you run a pretty tight ship and that your home is pretty structured, and unless she balks, I'd say, go for it. When/if you feel the little girl is needing some discipline or isn't getting along, I'd set her at the table with something to do. "I need you here for now..." If she fusses, offer sitting and having a quiet time with some books for a while. Give her options: "It's okay to do X, and we don't do Y at our house." She may need to be told what is appropriate since her mother is not asserting this sort of teaching at home.

And lastly, if you are really dreading this-- just don't do it.

Yup, she sounds similar to our next door neighbor. We started with, "My House, My Rules," and if you don't like it, you can go home. We made sure to include we would really prefer you to stay and play with us, but we understand if you don't like how we do things over here. I also deflected a lot of stuff back to her mom even if the mom wasn't around.

She stopped coming over for a while when she realized that I was not going to let her get away with the bad behavior her mom allowed (and to some extent praised..what she called "leadership skills," I called bullying). Now, for the most part, they play nice, but it took years - the girls are now entering 4th grade - but I think standing my ground and letting her mature into it are what made the situation work.

I would give the situation you mentioned a chance to see how it will work. Free time may not be worth all the effort it takes getting her to stay in line. But to answer your questions, yes, if you are watching her there is no reason you can't expect her to behave reasonably. Good luck. I hope things work out for you.

I agree with the other post. Tell your mom friend that you would love to do the babysit swap. Tell her that your children are under a certain set of rules and for consistency, her daughter would also be under the rules. Then, show her the list of rules that are enforced at your house. She can take it or leave it. Nothing personal.

I would have an honest conversation with her. As I have been in the daycare business, I have found that there are things that kids will do with their parents that they won't do with me. My house, my rules. I am clear with families before they start with me about what my disciplinary toolbox includes and I have never had anyone complain that the way I do things would "squash" any part of their child's personality.

I know exactly what she is worried about because I have been the same way with my kids and have felt the same way about other people's kids. In my opinion, kids are born with a certain personality... some are passive, some are strong-willed, some are creative, some are sensitive etc... The "problem" behaviors like persistence, stubbornness ect... while they might be exhausting to parents and caregivers are skills that children need the most guidance on. These are are GOOD traits for them to have later in life, but as small children they don't know the boundaries. And that is the challenge. Not squashing, but not allowing disrespectful, free for all behavior either. Like it or not, there are rules in life and her daughter will learn the hard way from other adults, teacher etc... if Mom doesn't step up and set some limits.

My guess is that the comments your friend makes about your 'easy" children are out of respect that your kids are well behaved and she actually admires that about you as a parent. So I would tell her that you have noticed that you have different parenting styles and before you agree to this arrangement you'd like to talk about what will be allowed and what will not be. (It may help her to know what your rules/boundaries are for your own daughter when she's watching the girls at her house.) The girls are 6 years old, so they are old enough to have a group conversation with as well. After you sit down with Mom, sit down with her and the girls too and make sure that you're all on the same page. That way her daughter also knows the rules; knows that her Mom expects that she will follow your rules at your house.

Good luck Mama~ at least for the first several weeks you'll have your hands full.

I say give it a try and see how it goes.
I have had to deal with a few kids like this over the years and unfortunately you have to be a little mean to them. By "mean" I mean if they don't listen the second or third time and continue to whine or whatever, you get down to their level, look them straight in the eye and with a firm voice and serious face (no smile) you say "I have already said no. You need to stop now and go play. Now."
We moms are all so nice to each others' children (which is a good thing!) but kids who never hear the word no at home really won't behave unless you teach them the word no really means no with you, and that means not always being so warm and fuzzy about it. Sometimes blunt is best.
If the behavior continues to be a problem, then you may need to just say to your friend, I'm sorry, I think your daughter is just too "strong willed" for me to handle, maybe you can try switching with another friend?

Tell her that while in theory it would be a great idea you cannot do it because you have totally different discipline styles and it won't work. This will open up dialogue where you can gently tell her all you have told us. And then agree upon ways that you can discipline her child and that she will need to have a sit down with her daughter to let her know it is different at your house.

Unless you get this all out in the open before you start this arrangement it has no hope of suceeding and you will probably lose the friendshhip. If you are not able to say anything to this woman then do NOT have this arrangement.

Good luck to these parents who do not step up to the plate and discipline their kids. I would tell her you have different parenting styles and that your rules are as follows! Tell the other Mom what you expect when it comes to discipline in your house !

After that, I would try it for a bit. If the child is disrespectful you have to make a decision because the child is being disrespectful IN FRONT OF YOUR CHILD. That's not ok unless you want to let it happen !

I have an older teen. If I did not have discipline since the age of 2...Oh Boy ! My life would be h*** right now.

When kids come to my house, I have rules. With the teens, they would come to the dinner table and text. Can you imagine???? I tell them that the rule is no texting at the dinner table about 5 minutes before dinner. Kids respect that.
...This child needs discipline !!! Maybe you will end up being the best role model for the year ! Good for you for giving your kids love and discipline ! It pays off !

You can initiate a "my house, my rules" stance and you don't have to get permission from your friend for that. The little girl will quickly learn what behavior is acceptable and what isn't around you. I've dealt with very, very similar situations and had friends ask me what my magic was. It's not magic. It's just a different set of expectations, rules, follow through, and consistency.

I think before you agree to babysit (swap care, whatever you want to call it) ANY child, you need to directly speak to the parent about acceptable discipline strategies.

Ask the mom if she has any issue with you giving her daughter a time out if she is unruly or disrespectful while in your care. If she says "Yes, I don't want you to do that" then you have your answer. No babysitting swap/arrangement. Because there is no way in heck I would agree to be responsible for a child I have zero authority over. And that, essentially, is what you would be setting yourself up for if you have no disciplinary actions you can take when needed. And yes, I said WHEN, not IF. You've been around the child, you know it is WHEN.

You have to weigh the benefits vs. the hassle. We have some neighbor girls who are somewhat disrespectful to me. I think the mom is overwhelmed with three kids and work so she just lets them do what they want rather than put her foot down. They are always opening my refrigerator and taking out food - same with the pantry. I let them come over, but it's always a real hassle. I'm constantly having to nicely tell them no...one of them told me I was being mean. I had to tell her that I can't let them do something that I don't allow my own daughter to do. Then there is a question answer period about why I don't allow her..etc. etc.

I don't have the energy to do this all the time. I usually encourage my daughter to invite other "easy" kids over.

Of course this is your decision about whether or not to trade sitting with this other woman, but I can say from experience, it may be a major hassle and headache.

You might be risking your friendship. If you try and it doesn't work, you'll have to explain that her daughter is too difficult, which could make her defensive. Maybe try something less formal for a while...just have her daughter come over for a few playdates without her mom and see how it goes. It will give you a better feel for how the girl responds, if you have to correct her behavior. (And also how her mom handles it.) You might find that the girl behaves much better with the structure at your home. I wouldn't describe it as a "trial" though -- too much pressure!

There is one thing I really can't handle, and it is children being disrespectful to adults. My good friends all have been given the OK to correct my daughter is she interupts or talks back, and in return I can speak up if their children are out of line if they are not around.
I think that I would probably tell this mom "Yes, yes, yes! this sounds like an amazing idea that would benefit us both and give us the kid-free time we are both really needing! However, there are a few things I really need to talk to you about if Suzy will be spending a lot of time at my house." I would just explain to her while you love the free-spirit attitude, that you have really spent a lot of time working with your daughter to show respect to adults. Children in your home, under your care, even temporarily, are not permitted to talk back, tell adults NO with a "thank you" afterwards, or ask for things repeatedly after being told no. Ask her if she would be willing to work with you to have Suzy obey YOUR house rules when you are in charge of her. If she is unwilling to do this, then it's not worth your free time!

It doesn't have to be a friendship buster and it CAN work. You just have to shift your thinking from "not my kid, not my problem" to "My House, My Rules." Even when you are at the park and you are the grown-up in charge, your rules reign. And it actually shouldn't lead to discipline (you're still just a friend doing a favor), but it can lead to a different relationship with the child.

Think about it in different terms, with a simple behavior like jumping on the couch. You don't allow it at your house, the child may or may not able to at home, it actually doesn't matter. You see the child start doing it, you say "In this house, we don't jump on the couch. You may jump outside but not inside." Kid whines or complains or keeps doing it or whatever, and you continue to deal with it because those are the rules. You explain again, you physically remove the child from the couch, you suggest other activities that are acceptable. You say "These are the rules in this house, I am in charge here and there will be no more discussion about it. Find something else to do."

Same with the cookie stuff at the park "I have said no and we're not talking about it anymore. I don't listen to whining, and I'm not going to change my mind. Go play with Susie on the swings or play in the sandbox." Shut it down with calm, simple authority. And keep the focus on You and Your Rules, so that it becomes clear to her that what works at home won't work with you. In her experience, whining and nagging and interrupting gets her what she wants, she doesn't know any different. Don't be afraid to say "I need you to say excuse me and wait for me to turn to you before you start speaking. I'm in the middle of a conversation and I can't listen to two people at once." Most likely the same clear directions you give your kids can be used with her, you just might need to spell it out a little more, and add in the My House My Rules edge: "In this house, we don't do XYZ."

I host plenty of other kids in my house, and some can be rude or destructive or wild, sometimes due to permissive parenting at home, some to simply getting carried away. I will ask for different behavior, but I won't discipline someone else's kids but find that directly dealing with it is successful.

It may also be a good idea, when you and your friend are agreeing on your swap, to say something like "I will send my kids to you with a clear understanding that you are in charge and they need to follow your rules, even if they are different from ours. And if something comes up you think I need to know about, please let me know, and I'll do the same for you." Hopefully she would do the same, and then you have the topic on the table for the future.

We have house rules posted, and I tell the kids the rules in advance. I remind them by saying "that isn't allowed at our house". Even kids who behave badly for their parents often behave better at school or in someone elses house. I wouldn't put a playdate in a time out, but if you are technically babysitting a time out is fair. As long as you consistently reinforce the rules you should be fine.

I would not commit to this. I would try it on a trial basis. But when in my house kids follow my rules. Thats how it should be in your house. If she acts up, time out is an option. And if its to much for you ( I would not even ) can always tell her its to much for you. Be honest with the mom and tell her you do have rules that your kids follow and when some one is over they follow them also. Make sure she is ok with that.

I haven't read the other responses, but my gut reaction is to tell you not to swap childcare with this mother. Of course, I am projecting, but my experience with parents who are like this are that they are deeply in denial about how badly behaved their children are, and they don't thank anyone for trying to dispel their delusions. And yes, it has affected our friendship. I think that once you agree to watch your friend's child and if it doesn't work out, it would be difficult to change the arrangement without hurting feelings. Not worth it, especially if you really do like the mom independent of her parenting techniques.

She may be different with you when her mom isnt there. If she isnt then you just need to put your pfoot down and say "We DO NOT act this way in our home, when an adult says NO, the answer is NO" Maybe you can make a reward chart for her, with a small prize at the end of each day that she is with you, or if she can go say 5 days with you and act as you see appropriate maybe take the kids to do something fun outside the home. I know how you feel, I have friend with a daughter who, how shall I say is umm very active and more used to getting away with more when she is with her parents, she also talks ALOT, I lovethjis child like my own, but it did take a while for me to get used to her more outgoing personality than my own kids. Since spending a lot of time with us, she has come to understand and respect my rules when at my house. Maybe with time the child you are speaking of will do the same. Good luck mama, patience! And if you drink at all VODKA, goes with alomost any juice you have in the house!! :)

Your house, your rules. It really is that simple.

I think everyone who has suggested a "My house, my rules" approach is on track, and I think kids that age have a good understanding of that idea--rules are different at home, at school, at grandma's, etc.hope, however, that you understand that stating one of those rules as, "In our house, we teach respect for adults," as some have suggested, is extremely DISrespectful. You can convey that you and your friend have differing parenting approaches without being high-handed about how much better yours is. You and your family can also model behavior that you think is appropriate without being exaggerated about it--kids learn A LOT from watching others, of course.

I would simply do some thinking about what you will do if this swap doesn't work out: will you want to extricate yourself from the swap but preserve the friendship? Will you be able to make other childcare arrangements?

There are friends of my son I get along well with - they are polite reasonable kids - always saying please and thank you - like my son does.
I could babysit kids like these.
And then there are kids my son knows that he gets along with, but even he says they are rude and he'd rather not spend a lot of time with them.
I'd never bother trying with these kids.
I'm not into banging my head against a wall for the heck of it.
All I get is a headache for my trouble, and the wall does not care.
This kids discipline (or lack thereof) is not a situation you can fix or even make a dent in it.
Find someone else to trade off babysitting with.
It's not going to work with this family.

You'd be brave to try based on your post. If you really want to, I would tell your friend you would love to plan that arrangement but you are concerned it would be difficult for her DD to adjust to your stricter house rules. She'll probably tell you it's fine and her DD will have to adjust, but then you can gently bring up how she would feel when you had to discipline with a time-out, removal of privileges, or whatever. You can tell her you have very strict rules for your kids, and you would have to be consistant and have the same rules for any other child under your care. If she doesn't mind your rules, you can be brave and give it a try. But beware, the child will test you. However, if you're firm in the beginning, she may just rise to your expectations after the initial shock. You can suggest starting out on a trial basis. I'd be wary though if she is the type to always defend her DD's bad behavior. How does she position it when she talks about her child getting in trouble at school? Does she back the school discipline? Does she blame other kids, the teacher, make excuses, or does she really accept her DD make some bad choices she needs to own up to. That may give you a clue about how she is going to act when issues come up with her DD in your care.

I agree with the postings below. However, I can tell you from personal experience that parenting differences between friends/playmates can be a huge deal breaker, eventually.

Unless she is a very mature person, she will not take well to you discussing her lack of parenting with her and will most likely get defensive & claim her child is an angel.

I would try a mom-less play date to see how things go. Like a couple of hours of a trial run. She may or may not shape up, and it will give you a chance to say yes or no before you make a long term arrangement. Honestly, if the kid drives you nuts, then don't do it. Even if you need studio time. Find another way. My SD has a friend that we took on vacation and by the end of the week, we were ready to throw her in the lake. Never again will that child spend more than a weekend with us. But she and SD are still friends so short visits are OK. This may be a short visit only friend for your DD.

Kids can adapt to many different environments, like school or daycare or Grandma, so maybe they'll adapt to this arrangement, too. But test the waters first.

I wouldn't do the childcare swap. You are setting yourself up for a huge problem. Especially if the mom doesn't acknowledge her child's behavior and doesn't deal with it proactively. Find someone else more suited to your needs.

You could always take the indirect approach and just see what happens. What is mean is decide on your own which things will be unacceptable for this child at your house (probably just pick the MOST important stuff) and tell the girl the rules on her first day there, and then pick a discipline strategy (obviously not physical discipline, but something somewhat universally acceptable like sitting on a chair, or going to a corner or another room for a brief timeout). You could just implement this consistently under the mindset of "my house, my rules," and then see if her mom complains and see if it works. Might be easier than talking to the mom ahead of time, because if you do it's like assuming that her daughter will act up (which she will) but the mom might be offended by that. I'm a chicken though and hate confrontation so maybe that's tainting my opinion :).
Another option is that you could open the conversation with the mom by telling her what your rules are for your kids and how you would like her to implement discipline of your daughter in her home, and then sort of casually ask, how would you like me to handle any discipline issues when your daughter is at my house? Might be less threatening that way because you start it by talking about what you want her to do with your kids.
Good luck!