Helping My Son Not Be Such a Follower..

This is me as a child. It causes me extreme discomfort to feel like I am putting anyone out, or causing them to be inconvenienced in any way. Unfortunately, it caused a lot of issues for me growing up... It wasn't until I was 22 and pregnant for the first time that I finally began to put myself and my family's needs first. The thing that drove me to it was the dissintegration of a lifelong friendship that could have been resolved before we reached a breaking point if I had spoken up and stood up for myself earlier.

Unfortunately, I can't give any advice about how to work with him. My dad tried and tried to get me to be more assertive and confident... But all it ever did was cause me to withdraw more into myself.

Maybe some form of karate class, and (while I'm not the type to jump on the therapy bandwagon...) seeing a therapist would help.

Start by having him pick his own sandwich every time even if it is a dollar more. Make him think and tell the subway worker which items he does or does not want. He can decide 'toasted' or not, he can pick the cheese and so on.

Some people like not having to think and would rather follow. It is work to delegate.

Reassure him it's okay to have what he wants. Ask him, 'what do YOU want"? Explain to his dad about the incident at Subway. I think you need to get dad onboard. Dad has to tell him 'it's okay to have whatever YOU want.

And yes Martial Arts will him find his confidence and self esteem.

One of my son was very much like this. When he was about 12 he was able to participate in summer mission trips with our church youth group. They treated those kids as adults and he came back changed. He helped lead a crew that did landscaping for an orphanage. They built a wheelchair ramp, planted shrubs, mowed, removed vines and debris, painted. He learned skills both with people and tools. It was a great experience. Does it every year now. I would look for those type of opportunities as he grows. My best....

Some people are followers and there is nothing wrong with that. To try to change that is really taking a stab at their personality and you really don't want to do that.

Two of my kids are natural born leaders, one so much so it actually shocked me the level of control she had over her peers. Thing is though she was a good person and a good leader so that may have been the reason so many followed her.

My younger two are straight up followers with a mind of their own. They know they don't give up who they are so never follow those that want to change you. In other words with followers the issue is learning to understand who is a good person to follow and who is not.

Dad loves him and protects him and if he wants to bond with dad over a sandwich there is nothing wrong with that. Damion in school wants to light puppies on fire, probably not a good person to follow, right? Of course picking out the puppy lighter is easier than understand it is okay to laugh at the class clown but not join in being the clown.

Your son is fine, just parent him.

i really really love that you recognize this, and want to help him develop confidence and individuality. being a pleaser is wonderful in many ways and no one wants to squash a pleaser's desire to be agreeable, but you're wise to recognize that it can easily tip over into 'doormat' and even to 'annoying.'
my lovely MIL is in the latter category. she won't make any decisions. even in a restaurant she looks at me when the waiter's taking the order, almost frozen without an encouraging nod from me, like it's not okay for her to select what she'd like without approval. i wish i had a dollar for every time she says 'oh, whatever you're having' or 'whatever you like' or 'wherever you want to go is fine with me', often with a downcast face and a big sigh if i don't pick right.
this attitude, which is surely not as extreme in your little fellow, seems to be a combination of nature and nurture, so you want to honor his nature while nurturing him to speak up. i don't think it's an easy fix. enlist your husband's help, so instead of ordering what he (your husband) wants, he stands with your son and encourages him to pick out what HE (your son) wants without influencing him in any way. and if that's not what your husband wants, he can order a half-sub, right? don't make a huge deal out of it. just find opportunities where you can encourage your son to take the lead and make decisions, and radiate quiet approval when he does so.
hopefully with this being reinforced at home, it will subtly start taking hold when he's around older boys too. but i tell you true, it's very normal for little fellows to mimic the 'big boys', and while it's not an inherently bad thing (assuming the big boys aren't asshats), you do want to lay the groundwork for your son to be able to say 'no, i don't think i want to come with you on that' as he gets older.
khairete
S.

Sounds like it would be great for Dad to start asking your son what HE wants to share or just have on his own. If it's coming from Dad, maybe your son will start understanding that he's free to think for himself. I have to continually remind my son that he needs to speak up for himself too. I stand up for him often in the family, because he usually wants all of us (mostly big sis) to be happy and he'll take what is left. I have been working with both of the kids to try to be more fair.

One thing I'd do is ask my husband to mix up his own choices too, to show that variety is fun and something everyone enjoys. You've identified that your son seems to be seeking Dad's approval, so Dad needs to show that he approves of a great number of things, and that there's no one perfect answer to anything (especially a menu item).

Take a look at your husband's style too - is he just a little too demanding or not quite as supportive as he might be? Even if that' snot how he feels, does he come across that way by his word choices?

Both of you should highlight the things your son is good at especially if they are unique and a skill that neither of you has.

I was a follower because I was constantly told by my mother that I wasn't as good as she was at my age. It makes people afraid to be individuals, for fear of disapproval. You may not be doing that, but you may have to work harder the other way.

I think your husband may have to take the lead on some of this. I agree with the posts below that suggest some sort of confidence building activity (karate, tae kwon do, etc.) and, if unsuccessful, look into some short term therapy that can help your son build skills as well.

It's important to do this sooner rather than later - kids who are tweens or teens are much more at risk for following the wrong kids down the wrong path.

So he is trying to be like his dad? I think that's okay! It's great that he was able to tell you he wanted something new though, to me that shows he isn't fully in to what others want and does have an opinion. We have always worked with our kids on being honest and using their voices, but it's okay to emulate people who are doing good things.

How about the next time you go to Subway you get four six inch subs? Then everyone can get what they want to eat and it doesn't make anyone feel bad. If you get two 6 inches of the same thing, they will ring it up as a foot long anyways, so it's no difference in money.

So I would say just encourage him to be free thinking and make good choices, and things will be fine. He's still really young and has a lot of learning to do.

Hi,

Does he do this with kids his own age or his sister? Or is it just older males?

I'm going to assume it's just older males from what you've said here. Some of which is pretty normal I think (my kids did it a bit and so do younger boys around my boys). I think all boys try to gain dad's acceptance and approval ... maybe just a head's up to Dad to be aware that your son is putting his own needs and likes after dads.

One of my sons pretended to like fishing (obviously didn't) so he could join dad and the other boys on trips. I just had to mention to Dad that he needs to do some things each child likes to do, and join them. That really helped.

With older boys, kids just want to be accepted by them .. so they will try to emulate them a bit. It's that typical looking up to older kid thing they do. I heard one of mine say he didn't like a TV show that I knew he loved, because an older boy said it was stupid.

I took that time to have a little talk - that they should be proud of themselves, their choices, their likes .. and that if someone doesn't respect or appreciate that about them, then they are not really a friend (or the best fit). That helped mine a great deal to sort of wean out kids they were just trying to impress.

Sports and activities helped mine gain confidence - standing out on a team (even if it's only once or twice a season!), doing things on their own in front of others (piano, etc.) and groups such as cubs were great. I'm sure you've already got him in some of the things he is interested in. Even swimming lessons (mastering a level) gives them confidence.

Good luck :) I think recognizing this in your son is great. Talking to dad is where I would start (some men kind of like that kids emulate them, and just need a reminder that boys need to be encouraged to express their own individuality).

Ok - is this an issue everywhere, at school, etc.? Could be a problem.

Or does he just want to be like dad? Seems typical.

Two separate issues. Dad can encourage him to take the lead, and maybe dad can get what son likes, for example. But I honestly don't see anything wrong if he's just having a bit of hero worship. Have dad check in with that, and take the lead on it - gently encouraging at the most.

Re. the sandwich thing - there are 4 of you - 2 boys/2 girls/2 sandwiches. He's making things equal when it's equal people/equal sandwiches. As long as your son likes BOTH sandwiches, it's not an issue - it would be an issue if he didn't like it and felt he had to eat it.

How about Dad say, "I like that you like to be like me, but it's OK to like what you want. How about you order a 6 in. sub any way you like and we'll sit together and eat our subs?" Or something. My DD delights in "being like" other members of the family. Sometimes issues like this start with small things where he can be a success. Sometimes the youngest has things done for him or gets dragged along so much with everyone else, they don't have the same opportunities to be independent. We had to talk to my SD (as my mother had to talk to me about my sister) about letting DD do her own thing. Just today DD wore socks that in no way matched, but she performed the task and she was happy. So I let her do it. It seems very small, but sometimes little successes lead to larger ones. Like another poster mentioned, when kids are expected to be capable, they usually are. He may never be a leader. But knowing his own mind will help him to follow when he wants to, or not.

You can also discuss those boys specifically. Say my DD got in trouble with a friend (she has), I talked to her about how she knew it was wrong (yes) and she did it because friend was (yes) and that meant *she chose* to do the wrong thing (yes). So ultimately it was her own behavior that got her in trouble, and even if all her friends do something, she needs to decide if it's right for her. There was a Brain Games episode recently on following the crowd. You might want to look it up.

He's 8 and he's trying to figure out who he is and who he wants to be. Some kids are natural leaders, others are bossy from the womb even though no one wants to follow them, other kids are happy to follow and many are somewhere inbetween. I don't think it's essential that everyone should be or want to be a leader. Every company only has one president or CEO, there are a lot of people who are collaborators - sports teams need collaborators as do researchers and most businesses. the ability to work together with others is a more essential skill I think.

But giving your example of the Subway shop sounds more like he wants to make dad happy. The time will come when he'll want to do the complete opposite of what dad does. And it's perfectly normal for younger kids to idolize and immitate older kids. That will come to an end too. At this age he's seeing personality traits that he likes and emulates them. and people he likes - he wants them to like him back.

I think what you need to concern yourself with is when he befriends and emulates kids who are not good examples. That happens and it's a tough situation to deal with. In 3rd and 4th grade my son became very friendly with this boy who was just trouble from the word go. He defied me when he came to our house for playdates (don't step there I'm mopping the floor - and he looked at me and smiled as we walked across the floor explaining why it was OK for him) he touched my daughter's friend's breasts (the girls were 3 years older!), etc. Eventually I had to say no to every request my son had concerning this kid. No playdates at our house or at his, I had to request that my son be in a different class, etc. The uncanny thing is that this kid was charismatic - attractive to the other kids - he was funny, irreverant, rebellious, etc. The bad and good news is that eventually (middle school) my son recognized this kid for what he was - and even punched the him in the face when my son was defending his best friend who had lost his mom when the kid was teasing him about his mom's death (what kind of a monster does that?). The bad news is that he turns back up every few years like a bad penny. My son gets attracted to his magnetic personality and I have to again, drag him out of the gravitational pull.

I combine questions along with a lot of parental "no"s. I ask him things like "what's Timmy got planned after high school? Does that match up with the kind of plans you have for your life? Does he help bring out your postive traits? Why do you think people like Timmy? What parts of his personality are likeable, what parts aren't likeable? I find questions work a lot better than me preaching at him. But I've always encouraged my kids to eavluate the people they like - and consider the personality traits they find so likeable and emlate those things. And the opposite with people they don't like. We can learn something from every person we deal with - and sometimes what we learn is to not be like them!

I also say no alot. It's part of our job. Not the fun part...

My only thought is to actively ask him what HE WANTS, about all things, always. Make sure he hears you & dad both asking him to share his thoughts, ideas, likes & dislikes with you...& explain to him that his likes & dislikes make him who he is & that everyone gets to choose their own.

And then I say, try not to worry.
(I know, easier said than done)
He will find his voice.
He sounds like a very sweet boy!

You should make him learn self-confience. He should have his own mind and say what he wants.
:)
~R. Hart

I think him wanting to be like dad is not a bad thing. Maybe you need to talk to dad about this. Maybe in these instances a change could be made. Dad could order a different sandwich. Or each person order their own and take the extra half home for lunch the next day. Sometimes you have to find creative ways to make the family work. I have a sister in law who lives with my father in law. She treats him like he is 5 years old. It's annoying for everyone. My father in law ignores it but it drives us nuts. So now when we have family get to gathers we have instituted the rule that married people or people who live together can't be a team on whatever game we play. It removes her sniping at him from the equation. And everyone has more fun.

My son does the same thing. Except just with his dad, not any other person. He never wants to disappoint. I've had to talk with my husband about it. Often he agrees with him about something, but later on when it's just my son and I he will tell me he didn't want or like something. My husband is now in the habit of following his lead, or asking him first what he would like, do, and suggest. It's been helpful for my son to build up confidence, and had made their relationship closer.