A good acquaintance of my husband and mine started seeing a woman who has a difficult personality, to say the least, a couple years ago. We have always been supportive of him so we just rolled with it; we've gone out of our way to try to build a relationship with her but it's been rather unsuccessful. We became pregnant about 18 months ago, they also became pregnant about 17 months ago. I was excited and thought it would be a catalyst for our friendship. I couldn't have been more wrong. I tried to maintain a positive attitude throughout my pregnancy, often times smiling even when terribly uncomfortable; whereas she took the opposite approach and complained about every aspect of being pregnant when I saw her. She became the epitome of a stereotypical raging pregnant woman often making ridiculous demands of her husband, our friend. She did have a few issues early on, but in all reality they were fairly minor and rather common symptoms in a lot of pregnancies. I realized quickly that no bonding would occur between us during this time because of our differing outlooks and tried to look forward to when we both had our babies in our arms.
We both decided to be SAHMs so I thought we'd get together on a regular basis. I was looking forward to the fun of our kids growing up together, especially since we're neighbors. Well, as it turns out I was wrong again. Being a SAHM was a seemingly difficult transition for her, I think she still struggles with it. Without a career she now places her complete self worth in her capabilities as a mother. She seems to believe that what her daughter is doing is a direct result of her parenting skills rather than it just being a normal baby growing. She will proudly tell you what an A-Type she is, and is admittedly competitive. With two babies just a few weeks apart (and hers the younger) it isn't pretty for me. She is "convinced that her daughter is advanced" in all areas, of course. The few times we have gotten together I see that her daughter is exactly where my son was at that time, perhaps just slightly better or worse depending. Not advanced, just reaching milestones at the appropriate age. We were going on walks pretty frequently which is where I discovered the extent of her ugly side. (I also realize in hindsight that with both babies strapped in carriers it's difficult to gauge their true progress which is probably why she preferred it.) While on our walks she would ask how our son was doing and what he's been up to, so I would share with her what was going on. Regardless of what it was she would quickly reply that her daughter was doing the same. For example, I was sharing an anecdote with her about how our son was being especially grabby at changing times, (the zipper, rivets, & pockets on my jeans, going after strings on my hoody, &c). She replied with "Oh! (X) is grabbing at EVERYTHING right now!" Just a few days later her husband confided in mine that she was concerned that their daughter wasn't even reaching for things yet. I've also caught her in lies, too. We had to start feeding our son solids early, at 4 mo, because he is so large. She'd ask how he was doing in that dept and would then go on to tell me what a good eater their daughter was. She'd eat anything they gave her and proceed to list the various foods of which there were 3 or 4. A couple months later she proudly posted on FB that "(X) had her first solids on her 6 mo birthday!" I responded to it with an innocent inquiry questioning the validity, and she completely back peddled without ever admitting that she lied and exaggerated. I can't understand why she would say that her daughter was doing something that she really wasn't except to make her look "more advanced". When her daughter was about 5 months she commented that (X) was scooting remarkably well and eagerly announced that she anticipated her crawling in just a couple weeks. Go figure, it's three months later and she's still scooting which is absolutely fine, that's how she's growing. I was so disappointed to hear her make that claim though; her daughter has failed before she's even begun to do something, which is sad to me. I could go on with examples, but I think you get the picture here.
We have different parenting styles and I'm fine with that, I believe that each family needs to do whatever works best for them. We tend to lean toward letting our son explore and figure things out on his own, whereas they tend to be more helicopter-style. For example, if our son fusses I look at what he is doing before I address it to see if he needs help or if he's just working something out; on the other hand, if their daughter fusses they immediately pick her up and bounce her around the room (something which seems to be losing it's effectiveness as she grows). I can see that they don't want to cause her distress and can understand why they feel compelled to do it, but it's not the right choice for my family. Another example is with schedules. Our son hasn't given us a choice on that matter, we have to go with the flow with him; I can't imagine keeping him on a time table. The best I can do is routines with him. Flip the coin and there she is, very rigid in her daughter's scheduling with nearly every activity and minute accounted for. She has boasted at how well her daughter sticks to it while her husband has commented to me on the impossibility of it. They just have different priorities than we do. We've always maintained a respect for their choices and despite this I have received raised eyebrows and other indicators (such as the way she states something) that shows she doesn't respect our parenting decisions. Although she has never blatantly said "I wouldn't do that" or "That's not right" she obviously believes that her way is the right way, and probably the only way.
If you're still reading this I appreciate it, because I don't know how to deal with this woman any more and really need some advice. I've tried all different methods of coping that I could think of. I've tried just ignoring it, which doesn't work because it gets under my skin too much. I've tried battling it and giving her a taste of her own medicine, but that just encourages her and makes me feel worse for stooping. I've also tried just talking about different subjects with her besides babies which has been mostly ineffective; she is completely absorbed by her daughter. In all the walks that I've had with her I don't feel like I know her any better as a person, which makes me question if there is even any one there to get to know? She's quite stubborn and proud of it (she clings to ideas she's held since childhood, and actually brags about it) so I feel like trying to address this issue will be a waste of breath and potentially make things worse overall because of frustration with her. We are neighbors so I can't just cut them out of our life, and plus we really do like the husband and would like to maintain our friendship with him. I'm not going to be fooled again and think that once the rapid milestone stage is over we'll be able to enjoy toddler-hood and beyond; I know that whatever (X) is doing it's going to be the most amazing activity and she's certainly going to be the best at it. There's no end in sight, except the end of our communication with her! I'm at my wits end, how can I handle this woman despite our extreme differences?!
Thanks Ladies, for all of your support and advice! I know there are a lot of competitive moms out there and I appreciate all the wisdom you have to impart. I know she certainly won't be the last of this type in our lives, I think the magnitude of this experience will be enough preparation to help with others in the future. She absolutely does bring out the little bit of competitive side that I have, which is one of the reasons it bothers me so much; I feel that toxic mindset over take me after spending time with her and I begin to question my son's achievements and my capabilities which is an awful feeling. I think the distancing as much as possible is a great first step. Luckily it's winter so our walks have mostly fizzled out, and I'm hoping to find some activities between now and spring to fill up my schedule. On the positive side, I know when to plan these thanks to her rigid scheduling! :) It's definitely easier to deal with her in groups, even if it's only the hubbies around so I will be trying for more get-togethers with increased numbers. And although I had considered her insecurity before I never linked it to her needing validation. I do remember her husband almost marveling at how well we handled being first time parents just before they had theirs, perhaps they do admire us and our confidence (something I'm usually too humble to admit or even consider). Making her the priority is a great suggestion as well, and I would frequently try to do so on our walks; I would ask about her straight away and try to praise her daughter's accomplishments. Regardless she would always go on with the comparisons and "one-uppings". I've never gone "over the top" about it, so maybe just asking and polite praise isn't enough for her. I'll try to have some balloons and banners on hand in the future, lol. Thank you again for all of your support, I think even just venting has helped alleviate some of the stress for me.
It is just really wrong for moms to compare their kids to each other OR their parenting styles to each other's. Better to learn that now. Or it's going to be a REALLY long life. Let it go and basically ignore her words/actions/opinions. It will drive you nuts. And this is just the beginning. "How?", you ask? Just ignore it.
Distance. I would give yourself some emotional distance from her. People like your "friend" will drain you, suck you dry, tap into your insecurities, make you question yourself, your parenting, etc. I think some distance is in order. Just because you are neighbors, doesn't mean that you have to be great friends. I would keep your conversations as simple as possible and try not to get into detailed conversations about your parenting, etc.
Does your husband agree that this woman has issues?
You can be friendly with someone and not necessarily go to lunch with them, if you know what I mean. Not everyone is meant to be a friend. Join a M.'s club if you haven't already, and start getting involved in their activities.
I know some women like this (my SIL for one) and all I can do is encourage you to find the humor in the situation as much as possible. If you see them as being these characters in a cartoon that always do these extreme yet predictable things, you may be able to get a chuckle or two out of her outlandish proclamations.
Hang in there. Just start seeing what you can do to bring other SAHMs into your social circle. Good luck!
I would just spend less time around her.
So she drives you batty. So what? She might feel really insecure. Like you said, she might feel her baby is a reflection of her abilities as a parent, rather than a baby is just a baby and they all hit milestones at different times. Stop allowing her behavior to bother you. When you are no longer around her, talk to your husband and laugh about it. In the end, you only have your kid to worry about - their kid and their lives are their problems. She sounds like the type of person that will just suck the life out of you.
Some of it could just be her personality, which you cannot change. So I would not be getting stressed out over something that can't be changed. If she grates on your nerves that badly, and she's not being totally honest with what her baby is up to, just limit the time you spend with her. Let whatever she says roll off your back and accept that you can be civil to each other, while still being better friends with her husband but that will be the extent of it. We don't have to be best friends with everyone. Raising children and being moms shouldn't be a competition, and if that is what this woman wants to turn it into, let it be her problem, not yours.
I feel pretty bad for her kid though...
I say get honest and let the chips fall. I have had to do this in some relationships, some made it...others didn't. Like if she says something like "what is your son doing these days" You could say, "oh the usual, being a baby!" and laugh. If she presses it, ask "why do you want to know?" If she continues to press I say come clean. "look, I am happy that we have kids the same age, I look forward to them growing up together. Then thing is you seem to want to compare them a lot and it makes me uncomfortable so I prefer to talk about other things." I mean hey, at least that is honest and gives you a prayer of having a real relationship if she is capable. She has the choice to say that is not what she intended or to get huffy and go complain to her husband. I don't think I could live a lifetime of fakeness when I had to do it right next door!! If you tell the truth and it doesn't work out at least you tried. I had one relationship totally blossom after coming clean and one completely die off. I know you worry about you guys relationship with the husband but let me tell you, at the end of the day if he has his woman he is OK and the fact that he is letting you guys in on all her quirks shows that maybe what they need is to just be on their own to work it out. If she does act silly and not want to be friends you can always be cordial when you see her around. Good luck, hope it all works out!!
My advice to you is to be kind to her in passing but don't get together with her anymore. She is a "joy- stealer" and I really think this will continue until you end up having a HUGE blowup and telling her to *&^%& off! She is the type of person that nothing you say or do will ever be good enough-she will always try to one-up you. It is exausting being around someone like that and with her being a liar on top of that- well, she is not worth your time. I would end everything with her asap. You can be friendly or say hi etc. but don' t waste your time with her anymore. If she asks why, you can tell her the truth--that she is a liar and you don't appreciate having to hear about how advanced etc. her child is and her trying to compete all the time. You wanted to be friends, not enemies. She is making that hugely difficult! Good luck to you !
M
Well, it does sound like you are keeping score too...of the M.'s behavior anyways. Maybe when you get together perhaps you should be the one to ask her more questions about what her daughter is up to...to relieve the stress to keep up. I do believe that every parent is trying their best at any given time...and the pressure is enormous to raise a smart happy child...and as you said, every style is different. If you can repeatedly say to us that this is simply a difference of parenting style...then you should also to be able to realize that before letting it get under your skin so badly. I guess very simply...live and let live...and see this as her strength. Some parents are abusive, some don't care. She cares enough to compete and pay attention:)
.
This is going to sound cheesy, but if you don't have the option of spending less or no time with her, maybe you could model to her what you'd like to see in her. As annoying as this will sound, for some reason she wants to impress you. If she's telling her facebook friends something different, maybe it has more to do with the dynamics of how your personality styles mesh. All humans have redeemable qualities, but some are truly more difficult for person A to see than person B.
What would happen if you tried having conversations center around her daughter and were very brief about your son...or better yet, spent time with her and her daughter without your son and vice versa? This is just a theory, so it might not work and I'm not saying this as anything other than a temporary attempt, but maybe she feels insecure about being a first time mama (don't we all?) And it's manifesting in a very unhealthy fixation on your experience as a first time mama? Maybe this actually makes her feel better on some level?
Just a thought and while no, this approach isn't necessarily fair, you seem far more stable and capable of pulling it off:)
Whatever you do, enjoy your experiences with your son because at the end of the day, isn't it just amazing how our sweet babies develop and smile and make us feel love in a completely mind-blowing way! :) Congratulations on your baby boy!
I didn't read all your responses so I don't know if anyone said this already or not, but is it something you could talk with her husband about? Not in a "telling on her" sort of way, but just because he's married to her and surely sees this in her attitude/personality and has found a way to deal with it, so maybe he would have some good advice for you. If you don't feel comfortable talking to him, maybe your husband can do it over lunch one day with just the two of them? Kind of in a casual conversation-type way? Just a thought.
I really appreciated the time and effort you put into describing what sounds like a difficult situation. Just to put a little levity into it--if you think it's bad now, wait until potty-training time comes up! I'm not into the competitive games, but that seems like a real hot-button issue for moms. If your friends wife is this intolerable about eating solids, I shudder to think about her little darling using the toilet. Seriously, I liked what a poster below put about focusing on asking her FIRST about how her child is doing, thus removing her ability to try to "one-up" you all the time. You could also go a little over the top and buy her some books about raising a gifted child, give her the names of some programs that are for gifted kids, etc. In other words, if you get even MORE excited about her ADVANCED child than she is, maybe she'll start to see how foolish she is. It's tough because you want to maintain a friendship with her husband. If you didn't care about discarding the relationship altogether, I would suggest that you let her know that since her child is so GIFTED, and yours is so NOT, you don't want to drag her super-advanced child down, so perhaps you should part ways.
Is there any way to just try to maintain a sense of humor in the face of her insanity? I know there are friends we hang out with that are SO different in their parenting styles--but many times we just smile, accept what they say, and then DISH big time about them when we're in the privacy of our own home. It's actually kind of fun to run down other people's crazy habits if you can trust your husband! And maybe you'll be able to tune her out a little better if you know you can vent to your husband. Or heck, vent on this website! I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post.
This is a tough one. You want to maintain the friendship you and your husband had with her husband, because it sounds like before he married, you were all close. It just sort of seems that her way of exerting control over the entire friendship with her husband is to be the center of it. You can either ignore it, or cut ties. Ignore her and try to have separate topics to discuss and start having less mommy days with her. I have a very similar relationship within the family and for my own sanity and levels of frustration I only schedule small doses ( and keep a few drinks nearby!)
I read your entire post!! :)
I feel sorry for her. She sounds incredibly insecure and is trying to increase her self worth through her child's achievements. This has got to be really draining on her. Try and be patient with her, maybe bring an Ipod or something on your walks together and keep one ear phone in. Nod and smile when she raves about her child's progress. And just be patient - it will most likely even out when the kids reach toddler age.
For you, I would say try and stop expending so much energy catching her in lies. I understand that you are disappointed that this friendship and shared pregnancy has not resulted in the type of relationship you envisioned having with her. You need to let that go, and see the relationship for what it is and adapt accordingly. Accept her for who she is, faults, insecurities and all and try and lead by example.
You two have extremely different parenting styles and self confidence levels. You cannot change her, but you can change how you react to her.
If you need to cut back on the amount of time you spend with her, cut back on the number of walks you take per week, find a Mommy and Me group to join. Find ways to connect with other Moms so you can have the type of friend relationship that you want.
Mostly, be patient with her - she really sounds unhappy.
I am a lady who has seen most of what is out there regarding folks like your neighbor, (5 + gg grandchildren). What I have learned over the years is that I simply do not want to "die on that hill"....concerning situations like you have. It is sad that things are not going well with your friend's babies mother. But if it were me I certainly would not spend a lot of time alone with her (meaning without other adults around)...If you choose to, you must remember that things are not going to change any time soon. If there are other adults in the situation you can use them as a buffer and that will eliminate a lot of your frustration. Being that they live close by might mean that you limit the time you spend alone (and keep it rather brief) with her. We all have a lot of things to deal with in our lives. I have had to come to the decision that being in some what control of my space had to be in my own hands and not in the hands of those who I feel frustrated with or uncomforable with. She is lacking self-esteem and seems to be using her baby as her identification. Too bad for that little girl. She also does not have good listening skills. Maybe you can just do some "reflective listening" with her ("that must have be very sad for you" or "you must have been soooo tired")......Don't use the word "I" in your listening...Keep your comments reflecting back to her what she has said..."that must be...", never, "I know what you mean".....Maybe that will help you when spending time with her and the baby. Maybe you could bring up subjects that do not include your babies.
Enough from me.......Best of luck to you and take care or yourself, your baby and own family........Save your energy for those that love you...
As my hubby would say snatch off the band aid now so the healing can begin, if you cherish the friendship with you husband friend than I would be honest with the wife, even if she does not feel what you are saying expect for her to respect it. In my experience I was friends with a young lady (a few young ladies now that I think about it) who had a measure for measure attitude when that was never me, well the longer we entertained our friendship I slowly started to turn into "that women", and I can say that thinking is a mess, it will drain a person and who ever is invovled! I had to cut the friendships loose and get my mind right and guess what they still are trying to see what my life is like without them in it, so sad. Be honest with the young lady and call her out on it, that's what friends do for each other in order to be better. If she is real she will be around if not you both will be alright while apart from one another.
Good Luck
She seems really insecure and to me it seems her hubby is having issues with her as well. That being said, short of cutting them out of your life, you need to not do one-on-ones with her. Even though she is lying about her daughters progress, let it go. As her daughter gets older it won't work because the child will be able to speak and contradict her. Since her job had defined her I suppose her daughter defines her now. And she wants her daughter to reflect how she thinks about herself, which is a type A , over acheiver. I hope when she realizes that she has a lovely, yet typical child she doesn't hold it against her. Find more like minded mommas like yourself and keep the socializing with her when you can all hang out. Good grief that'd drive me bonkers
It sounds like you can't completely cut her off bc of the husband but stop doing things one-on-one with her. I had a situation like this and it drove me CRAZY. I would get so angry with this woman bc I was raised to downplay strengths, be modest etc. Fortunately, they moved but the funny thing is she's changed and now I like her! Anyway, this likely gets to you a bit bc deep down you're competitive too. I always knew that with my situation but to be honest, part of the reason I'm ok with her now is as our daughters have gotten older, I'll admit hers is smarter than mine in many ways or academically so far. So kind of acknowledging that plus her not talking about it so much makes things ok now. You're a long way from knowing whose child is smarter etc though. So you have years of this annoyance ahead of you and I don't see it changing. I'd distance myself as much as possible - no 1:1 time and then I like the idea of going whole hog that her daughter is really special. It may be hard to do but I think for the times you have to be with her, it's the only solution. Otherwise it's banging your head against a wall. No way you'll change her. And I feel very sorry for their daughter...
I think a really good idea is to not be critical, but to pity this poor woman for her emotional turmoil.
I think it would be an excellent idea to ask HER how she and HER daughter are doing BEFORE she gets a chance to ask you. And if you catch her in a lie, don't question her about the validity. Just encourage her and you might even share with her a struggle that you've been having. It sounds like she's using a really messed up method to garner acceptance as a M. and person. I would show her your own weaknesses as a way to getting her to feel comfortable enough to show you her own. It sounds like she has trust issues.
Chances are, she'll lord it over you and do something to make you mad, but just be honest and say it hurt, and be done with it. Don't expect her to change, don't expect to be able to change it. Learn to accept her for the annoying person she is, and try to be open to her confiding in you. Cuz I have a feeling she senses your .... displeasure/opposition to these things, and misreads it as you being competitive as well.
I hope that helps. It is kind of disjointed. But to summarize, it sounds like she needs some coaxing to be a true person. Don't take it personally, and try to TRULY care for her (not just because of your friend) and see if that makes a difference.
She's got issues. Be incredibly pleasant when you see her, but otherwise distance yourself. You're trying too hard to get along with someone you obviously don't like very much!
Hang on and try not to go crazy. When your kids are around 3 you will be able to have play dates without parents. So, you'll get time off and she will too as you trade back and forth at your houses. You can have quick chats when you meet for the play date, but you won't have to spend the whole time talking with her. Enjoy the fact that her little one is the same age, but try not to socialize too much with them as a family. Maybe the husbands can do more stuff with the kids together, instead of the Moms. You can soak in the tub and the men can play with the kids together...outside the house. That way you maintain a friendship with him. Hang in there!
I am no help, but just thought I would write to say that I feel for you. I have run into other parents over the years with this complex, and it is challenging. For the most part it encourages me to keep my distance. Not sure that is an option for you.
It is really hard when you are good friends with half of a couple, and not with the other half. I think not expecting this to change is a good plan. I can think of some things that might make her change, but they are not anything you can influence.
(hugs)
