I took my children to a mall play area today. My daughter (5 years old) and son (2 1/2 years old) started playing with two sisters. Sister #1 was 5 years old, and Sister #2 looked to be about 6 or 7 years old. Later, I noticed a cute little girl (I'll call her Girl #3) join into the mix. All of the kids went up into the play treehouse for a while, and they were out of my line of sight.
After a while, my daughter ran up to me and said that Girl #3 was pulling Sister #1's hair. The two sisters came up to me and told me that indeed, Girl #3 pulled Sister #1's hair, choked her by pulling on the hood of her sweatshirt, and took away my son's baseball cap. They kept trying to get away from Girl #3, but she kept following them. There were plenty of other children around to play with, but Girl #3 seemed to be fixated on Sister #1 (probably because she could sense her fear).
I gave a sympathetic ear to the two sisters, who seemed to be very afraid of Girl #3. I told them that Girl #3 wasn't playing very nice, and that the next time she does something like that, they should tell her to stop or tell her mother. Meanwhile, Girl #3 walked up to all of us and wanted to join in on the group huddle. Sister #1 repeated to me that Girl #3 had pulled her hair. I asked Girl #3 why she did that, and she just responded, "I pulled her hair because I had to." I told her, "Sweetie, we don't pull hair, because that's not a nice thing to do, is it?" She just nodded yes. Then all the kids scattered.
I should mention that the sisters' mother wasn't paying attention. The two sisters were really sweet, but seemed to have very little parental supervision. Girl #3's mother was busy with her iPhone and was pretty oblivious to everything.
My daughter, the two sisters, and my son kept running from place to place trying to get away from Girl #3. Girl #3 kept following them. I did see that she was trying to antagonize the other kids. My daughter and Sister #2 were verbally sticking up for Sister #1. At one point, my daughter started pointing at Girl #3 and laughing. I told her to stop. At another time, she got into Girl #3's face and growled. Once again, I told her to stop.
I noticed that Girl #3's mother started paying attention after she noticed that my daughter was making fun of her daughter and everyone kept running away from her. I walked up to Girl #3's mother and told her that there was a little drama unfolding that seemed to start because her daughter was pulling Sister #1's hair and taking away my son's baseball cap. I told her that I just wanted her to know what happened because it looked like her daughter was getting picked on by the three other girls. She thanked me for telling her what the situation was and told me that since her daughter, at three years old, is the youngest out of all the girls, she figures pulling hair is fair game.
A few minutes later, I motioned for my children to come over to me so we could get ready to go home. The two sisters also came over too so they could say goodbye to my daughter. Then Sister #2 told Girl #3's mother that Girl #3 had been pulling her sister's hair and trying to choker her sister. The mom just told Sister #1 that her daughter was only 3 years old and didn't mean anything by it. She then made her daughter apologize. When she asked her daughter why she was pulling hair, her daughter said she did it because she wanted the girls to play with her.
So here is my question: If this were a school situation, would my daughter get in trouble for teasing Girl #3? She normally doesn't tease other kids, but she was doing it to stand up for herself, Sister #1 and her little brother. I'm curious because I wasn't sure how to explain things to my kids. I told my daughter that Girl #3 wasn't playing nice, but that laughing at her wasn't nice either. I told my daughter that the next time something like that happened, she should tell me sooner, and if something like that happens at school, she should tell the teacher. I also told her that if no adults are around and she gets hit, she has every right to hit back.
I must say I really felt bad for Girl #3. She was adorable, but totally clueless on how to make friends. She might end up getting ostracized in school. So what do you think, ladies? What are the new playground rules in the bully-free world of today?
Holy cow that was long! If you made it this far, thanks for reading my post!
Thanks so much for all the input! And DVMMOM, you crack me up, because my husband always tells me I overthink things too. In fact, I didn't even bother telling him about the incident, because he would have just rolled his eyes and told me to forget about it.
I should actually clarify, that I never actually told my daughter to hit back if the 3 year old hit her. I would not tolerate that, and that's just not in her nature. But she has been hit by a boy at her preschool, and I told her to hit him back if the teacher wasn't around. (This boy is a bit of a behavior problem, and terrorizes the girls in the class--but that's another story.)
I'm just trying to help my daughter navigate what I consider to be new playground rules. I don't think any of the behavior at the play area was actual bullying. That's why I put the word in quotes. This zero tolerance for "bullying" that some schools have adopted though, has me wondering how my kids are going to stay out of trouble, yet stand up for themselves--especially since some kids are trouble makers and force other kids into physical confrontation. But I guess I still have some time before I have to worry about that :-)
I think it is not bullying at that age, just trying to learn social skills. My son is 5 and still working on some of his skills for playing nicely (even with almost 2 years of preschool). You handled things pretty well. At that age it is good to say we don't do ________ and ideally tell her a more appropriate way to do what she wants (say excuse me or tap someone on the shoulder to get their attention, ask to join the game or whatever).
No, you don't get to hit someone because they hit you. Sorry but that won't be allowed in any preschool setting. Nor should it be thought to be OK. This won't be the last time this happens.
The cool thing about your story is - this is real life. This isn't a horrible thing that happened, this is how kids learn. This is why play and social interaction at a young age is so important. If everything was rainbows and lollipops, our kids wouldn't learn anything.
It's better to teach your kids when someone is doing something not so nice to them (chasing when they don't want to be chased, pulling hair, teasing, etc..) that they use their words. "Stop, I don't like that" if that doesn't send a message and it happens again, they alert an adult. Then we as adults can help give the kids the language to work through the conflict. I see this on a regular basis at my sons school. Preschool/kindergarten. The kids are taught how to communicate. Stand up for themselves (in a productive way).
I don't believe the girl is a bully. Again, she is learning how to play with others. What works and what doesn't. Mmmm, if I pull hair, they don't want to play with me, if I'm nice, they do... know what I mean?
Hope this helps,
M.
I see not bullying here either. Just a group of young children all of whom are at different stages of learning social skills.
I'd like to judge the 3 year olds Mom for not being more attentive to her daughter, but then we've all had to turn or heads or go pee or check our email when 10 seconds ago we check and the kids were playing beautifully, you know?
I also think you handled it extremely well. In fact you may have made an impact on the three year olds social development that her Mom for whatever reason couldn't do just then. I like it when we all look out for each other's kids.
Actually, I think your story is a perfectly healthy normal example of early childhood interaction, no bullying there!
:)
I was an elementary teacher and this wouldn't be a bullying situation in my eyes either. I would have talked to the girls they way you and Mom #3 did. Toddlers of age 3 will pull hair, hit, kick, etc because they simply haven't learned how to get their emotions/frustrations out in an acceptable way yet. That isn't to say she should be allowed to do it.
I think you told your kids the right thing, except I wouldn't encourage them to hit back. Yes, they should defend themselves, but it would be better if they just asked the person to please stop because it hurt, was wrong, etc. or ignored the person, move away from them and told an adult what was happening. Hope this helps!
A.
Um... it's not an "eye for an eye" on the playground and both girls would have gotten in trouble for their behavior- which probably would have been dealt with before it escalated to this point.
Honestly, when the children came to you upset by Girl #3's behavior, that was the time to say something to the other mother. It sounds like there were too many kids with a very broad age-range and not enough grown-ups to keep the situation under control. Next time, leave the situation with your two if there isn't enough supervision.
As for "if no adults are around..." here's what I used to tell my students when I was working clinically.
Use your words first. Say "STOP!" as loud as you can. If they do not stop, find an adult immediately and tell that adult what happened. If there are no adults around, get yourself out of the situation. If that's not an option, hit them back.
No bullies, but many teachable moments for all the kids. I-phone Mom is doing her daughter no favors by not paying attention and then by using her age to excuse her behavior. My 3 year old would get a stern warning if I or another Mom witnessed a "hair pull" the first time. If it happened again, we'd leave. I also think your daughter did not choose an appropriate reaction to girl #3, but you noticed it and corrected her immediately, which I would have done too. Girl #3 misses an important lesson if her Mom doesn't talk to her about how she will not make any playground friends or make any group of kids want to include her by pulling hair.
I think you are over-thinking this. There is no bully in this situation as far as I am concerned.
Honestly, it does not sound like bullying and if Girl #3 is only 3 years old, she may not know any better and at that age, is probably only starting to get to the point where she can understand what is appropriate, what is not, and why, plus develop impulse control (there's also a big difference between a young 3, and about to turn 4). What she was doing was not bullying in my book. She's got plenty of time to figure out how to play nice with other kids before she will be in school full-time, if her parents pay attention and are there to guide her. So many people now are so sensitive about bullying that they want to call all teasing, horse-play, being a nuisance, etc. "bullying" when in fact it is not.
I know you are just trying to teach your daughter to stick up for herself, but if my 3 year old daughter happened to hit a 5 year old, or even just accidentally bump into her, and that 5 year old turned around and hit her back, I'd be seriously ticked off. My 3 year old knows better than to hit anyone, or pull hair, or whatever, but not every 3 year old does. A 5 year old should know better period - you don't hit kids younger and smaller than you, even if they did it to you first. You just leave, and tell an adult.
Okay, well she's 3. She probably was clueless and wanted to fit in with the older crowd. I think you handled in appropriately and even if she was "only 3" her behavior was unacceptable. I think that it's a little too early to say that Girl 3 will have trouble making friends or socializing appropriately though. As far as your daughter, who knows what would happen in a school situation, but it's possible she might get in trouble for teasing. It's hard to walk away in that situation but I think you just need to continue reinforcing the expectations you have. Your daughter sounds like a good kid, sticking up for the others and asking for help. The other mom sounds a bit clueless herself but I have hope for the 3 y/o anyway! Haha!
I disagree with you. No child should hit back in this situation. If hitting is wrong, it is wrong. She needed to get help. It is wrong to exclude, it is wrong to tease. Some very fine teachable moments were lost here (mostly by the other parents) I would have told the mother of the three year old that her child was having a problem, because she was way too young to be trying to navigate social play with kids so much older than she was, and frankly, a Mom who has not noted that her three year old is trying to befriend kids so much older is asking for bigger issues than that. If a three year old hits another child, and a 5 year old has permission to hit back, you could be in for some serious medical expenses, punative damages, pain and suffering, and some therapy for your child when they realize how much damage a child nearly half their age can do in the heat of the moment. You do not want her to feel that badly ever, and if she were to hurt another human being badly, she might not ever get over it, seriously.
Let me tell you a story...it is not quite the same, but something you need to think about. One of my children wanted to get on a blow up play structure obstical course at a fair once. We let her get in line, we gave them her ticket, and we assumed that the people running it knew what they were doing. She was climbing up the stairs to get on the slide, which was part of the obstical course and had funky steps, and ropes on either side for the children to climb. Unfortunately, the people running it were letting kids go too soon behind one another. Our daughter lost her footing and fell, 6 feet, and landed on the girl behind her. It was not our daughter's fault, kids who fall here should have bounced on the inflatable the girl was standing on. The girl had teeth knocked out, needed many stitches in her face, and had to go to the hospital to be checked for a concusion. This was almost 15 years agao and my daughter still feels terrible about it. You don't want your daughter to find out that she can hit someone so hard that they cause teeth to fall out, or eyes to be seriosly damaged, and you do not want them to have to learn to live with that kind of guilt, so nix the permission to hit under such flimsey circumstances.
Kids need to know that when they are in real danger, they can do what they need to do, but a three year old taking someones hat and behaving badly is not one of those situations.
Maybe the thing to do was to tell the iphone Mom that her daughter needed her, and then try to facilitate a more appropriate play group for the younger set, like your 2.5 yo son, and some of the other children who were age appropriate for this little girl.
At school, I would hope that all the kids here would be coached, and that every child who stood by and watched the hitting, teasing, and excusion would also be coached about what to do. I reality, the person who got caught last would be the one to get into trouble, and that may or may not depend on how much slack the adult is willing to give to that indivdual child, which is a sad commentary, but all too true for some teachers, not all, thankfully, but some. As for the girl, if she goes to school with those kinds of skills, sadly, most bullying programs will not do right by her either, because the element that is missing in most of them is that this child's behavior should be documented each, and every time she draws negative behavior to herself so that she can get the kind of social intervention she needs to either not be a victim, or not display bullying behaviors. If you look really deeply into the whole bullying issue, there is a gray zone for kids who are "bully-victims" and they need the most help and are quite possibly the most at risk.
I would say, try to undo the lesson you just taught about having every right to hit back. At 5, she is not going to be able to go through all the conditions you put on when she has that right, and she might not see the adult who will see her hit back...and then, she is going to be the one with the issue, and there won't be much you can do about it at school if she is the last one to be caught...no matter who started it.
M.
I was a little confused about what kids were what but I admit I need to go to bed and I am tired...what I can say is I have zero patience for other Mommas who do not police their kids in play areas, so as nice as you were to try and help the kids sort it out, I would have been the momma saying ok kiddos pack it up we are going home or at best 5 more minutes with a cheesy smile pasted on my face.
Kids mature at different rates, and a non socialized 3 yr old can be a nuisance, but I think she probably did just want to be included. I do not think there was a bully, I don't think your daughter was in the wrong...I think they were just being kids...I have always told my kids that they have the right to stand up for themselves and would defend them with my last breath no matter what school rules/policies were/are if they were defending themselves.
I think you are overly concerned and from what I can tell you handled the situation brilliantly...I would not let it bug you = )
I agree with Krista.
If girl number 3 was only 3 years old then it is her mother's fault for not getting in there and you should have went up to her mother as soon as it started happening to let her know.
I would not chastize your daughter for doing what she had to do to stop the "bully". Seriously-I for one believe that we need to arm our children with real life tools to stop a bully-sometimes an eye for an eye really IS the way to go. Your daughter absolutely did the right thing because research shows that when a bystander stand up to the bully the behavior stops. The bully bullies for the attention and the approval of the crowd and when they don't get it the bullying prves futile. I wish my sons would be more like your daughter and stand up to the not so nice kids. Somehow they feel it is more important to be "nice".
How about suggesting to your daughter that sometimes annoying kids are acting that way to get attention and be included. If she can remember this, then she could tell the annoying kid something like, "You can play with us, but you have to play nice. No pulling hair or pulling on hoods." That establishes a boundary for behavior she'll accept, while also welcoming the other child to play with them (which might solve the problem). If the annoying child persists, teach her to repeat herself and try to ignore the annoying child until she stops pulling hair. Instead of being rejected at the beginning of the hurtful behavior, that child is informed of how to be included. The tricky part is expecting a child to remember this, but if a parent is around, she can be reminded to try this.
I find it unsettling that Girl #3's M. excused her behavior instead of telling her it was wrong. There shouldn't be any age where pulling hair and choking is "okay", just different consequences to match the maturity level.
The mother of girl # 3 is clueless. I don't believe that pulling hair is appropriate or fair game at 3 years of age. In fact, I believe that pulling hair at 3 years of age should earn an immediate going home and going to bed for awhile. I don't tolerate that type of behavior in my daycare. So it's not happening. I can't even remember the last time someone pulled hair unless they are 9 months old. By the way, I don't tolerate it from them either. I only have a baby pull my hair a couple of times and when I tell them it's naughty, put them down and walk away they do get it after a time or two of that.
I do believe your daughter was mean and that you should also leave in those situations. I don't think you should teach your child to hit back. All that's going to do is get her into a place where someone kicks the "chit" out of her.
