I know bullying is a hot topic these days and I'm wondering about a situation involving my 5th grade son. It's a bit of a long story. My 5th grader has had a volatile relationship with a neighbor girl/another 5th grader since kindergarten. They are both intelligent, high strung individuals. Complicating all of this is the fact that their older brothers are best friends and have played on sports teams togethers. My son and this girl have always been hot and cold, but have had spells where they've been friends and played together. Last year they were in the same classroom and their relationship took a turn for the worse. It is probably also related to the fact that they were getting to that age where boys and girls don't really play together anymore. My son is small and this girl is several inches taller than he is and probably weighs about 40 more pounds than he does. The abridged version of their history is that he likes to verbally antagonize her (I have no idea why and I've talked to him about not doing so repeatedly) and then she gets physical with him. Last year during transition times when the teacher wasn't always watching she would slug him in the back. One time he ended up bruised. I talked to the teacher about it and things got better. The teacher had no idea it was going on and was shocked. This year they are not in the same classroom, but see each other on the bus and in GT. Yesterday they had an incident on the bus. My son's version of the story is that he tripped while walking to the back of the bus and fell down. She was behind him and stepped on him and kicked him. He got up and took her hat and threw it into another kid's seat. She went nuts so my son gave her the hat back and she scratched him in the eye and face. The bus driver didn't see any of this. Since he had cuts on his face and complained about burning in his eye I had to take him to urgent care to make sure his cornea wasn't scratched. Fortunately, there was just minor irritation and no major scratches. Is this bullying on the girl's part or is this kids being kids since my son is not 100% innocent? I have been reluctant to talk to the parents since the other mom and I both tend to be high strung also and I don't want to damage our relationship for the sake of our older boys. The dads have coached together and gone to football games together so one option is to have them talk to each other about it. I've talked to the girl before too and will probably try to do it again.
Update: Since it was already a long story, I tried to be as brief as possible. These two are not socially mismatched in any way and my son doesn't have a history of antagonizing others (well, maybe me). There just seems to be something with these two. Although I have seen the girl bite (several years ago) and scratch other kids. Also, although he has admittedly antagonized her in the past, that is not how yesterday's incident began. It started when she kicked him and stepped on him after he fell walking to the back of the bus. I plan to send the mom a message that I am concerned about their behavior and ask for her help in resolving things. Even though it's technically happening on school property I would rather not get the school involved unless it happens in the classroom or we can't resolve it as parents.
What happened so far: with some encouragement and ideas from comments posted here, I sent the mom a tactful message and asked for her help. She was surprised to hear that all of this has been going on and promised to talk to her daughter after school today. We are going to try to work it out as parents at this point. Thanks.
Further update: Both kids have been told 1) No antagonizing and retaliating, 2) No getting physical with each other, and 3) Get a teacher or bus driver if things are headed that way. The consequence for both of them is that they risk losing their bus patrol privileges, which includes a big party at the end of the year. The kids disagree as to how the bus incident started, but agree that he took her hat and that she purposely scratched him in the eye and face.
There is never a good reason for a violent physical response! If she were my kid I would want to know.
since it is happening at school (bus is school grounds too), see if the principal can have both families sit down together and talk about the issues. He/she could act as the mediator and both kids can tell their side of the story. It could be a way to identify the problem, set up consequences for both kids and having it at school with a mediator would make it a non-theatening place to talk. If you go to this mom's house, she may think you are attacking her on her tuf.
I’m sorry but you need to put your son first. Hitting, scratching, punching is NOT acceptable behavior! Does the Mom know her daughter is hitting your son and leaving bruises? If this were another child doing this to your son would you ignore it? Probably not. You ALL need to talk about this and put a stop to it pronto!
Letting this continue is basically sending a message to your son that it’s o.k. and that keeping the peace with this other Mom is more important. What will it take for you to do something about this girl hitting your son? Him coming home with a broken arm or a black eye?
I’m sorry but I have no tolerance for this kind of stuff. The kids continue to fight each other because no one is doing anything about it. You are all the adults here and you all need to get involved before someone gets really hurt!
I don't know if this "bullying" per se, but it is definitely not ok. I think you should speak to the parents, not the girl, especially if you have tried to handle it by talking to the girl already. If your families are close enough to go to games together etc., the mom should be open to what you have to say. I think you should acknowledge your son's antogonizing behavior to the parents and hold your son accountable for it--he needs real tangible consequences. BUT physical violence and intimidation is never ok. This girl needs to learn to control her behaviors or your son or someone else is going to get hurt. Also, if your son is antagonizing her and she hits him or whatever, if he hits back, who do you think is going to look bad--he is for hitting a girl, fair or not.
Mmmm -you're right that there's a thin line here, but when it becomes physical -you have to do something. The back and forth disagreement -that's not bullying -that IS two kids who don't get along (and should ignore one another), but the physical stuff cannot continue. She has no business putting her hands on anyone -period.
I would call her parents and as nicely as possible enter into a discussion about how you're so happy your older boys are friends and it's so silly that your younger two just can't seem to get along, but that on a few occasions now, your younger son has been physically hurt by the girl. If the mother starts getting angry or shrill, try to stay very calm and tell her that you know "kids will be kids" but when it starts getting physical, something has to be done. Let her know that you would certainly want to know if your son was kicking, scratching or hurting another child. I know you don't want to rock the boat, but no one is doing the girl any favors by letting her behave this way unchecked, and your younger son can't keep being hurt by her.
Gee, I can just see these two getting married in about 10 years.
If they can't be nice to each other, then they need to stay away from each other as much as possible. He needs to watch his mouth, and she needs to quit assaulting him. There's no excuse for physical violence. It's an over the line anger management problem and if she doesn't get a handle on it she's going to have problems and be heading towards a suspension. Your son can sit up front on the bus nearer the driver.
no, it's not bullying. it's not just kids being kids either. it's aggression on both their parts and both sets of parents should be involved in putting a stop to it now.
good for you for recognizing your son's role in instigating the problem.
khairete
S.
Personally I would say something to the mom. Approach it from your end and tell her you have spoken to your son about inappropriate behavior on his end: taking.throwing the hat, etc. and tell her you were wondering her daughter's side of the story because your son did have some scratches, etc...and YOU want to know if your son hurt her in any way so he can be talked to about how NO O. is to touch, punch, scratch anyone else--be it boy on boy, girl on girl, or girl on boy. I guarantee you she will at the very least talk to her daughter about what happened. If I were the girls mother I would WANT to know if my kid hurt another kid.
I say, dispite the fact that her parents are a bit high strung, you're admitting your son isn't completely innocent in the situation and I think they'll be more willing to have a chat because of that.
I say they're bullying each other. Hormones may be taking place here too. 5th grade is about the time that girls start to experience hormonal changes in preparation for their cycle. Now... It could be 2yrs before she actually has a cycle, but that's not saying she's not already experiencing hormonal changes. Which SHE doesn't understand and your son certainly wouldn't understand that. Heck... Most grown men don't understand it!
He's probably not understanding what his feelings are for her and not really understanding even WHY he has any feelings toward her... That's probably why he's doing the things he does to antagonize her. We all know the 'pulling the hair' because he likes you stuff. That's this age... For both of them.
This is a school issue, you should take it up with the school by reporting your son and the girls behavior, because they are both engaging in bullying behavior. Request the schools bullying and harrasment policy, and report what your son has long been doing, which is also bullying. This will not be the last kid to clean his clock if he continues to act this way, and you need to get to the bottom of why he would find agrivating anyone so enjoyable. Her reaction is typical, and is easily dealt with in the student code of conduct, as it should be, but then her role in continuing this kind of bully-victim relationship should be dealt with seperately, but the school.
The problem is, the one who gets punished is usally the last agressor, and quite frankly, is usually the one who has had the shorter end of the stick, usually in a highly sophisticated, nasty, social, and repetitive public way. It is the weaker, less socially able child who will explode into physicality, and ends up being the one punished, but you know that it is far from true to say (while violence is always unacceptable) that the girls physical outburst is not even the start of the story, it is the end of it. If your son has selected this child because he knows that he has more social skill than he does, then you should be looking at that carefuly, for his own good.
I would insist that both children's behavoir be documented. Be totally honest, because your son really did begin the issue by deliberately antagonizing her. That should be dealt with as a behavior problem just as seriously as the physical result of repetative verbal assualts that have gone without concequence.
What if these two were not on the same intelectual playing field? Would you feel the same? Some kids, even though they have very high IQ's, don't have the social skills to keep suppress younger behavior (like violence) when they are pushed. It would seem more explainable, if the child he was teasing was MR, and fought back with fists instead of words, but the girl needs the same kind of social help to deal with that kind of verbal altercation without resorting to physicality. Also, it is not as big a leap as you think for a child who takes pleasure in deliberatly antagonizing an equal to choosing a much less gifted children to antagonize. If I were you, my biggest focus would be what I could do, and that may only be about your son and what is makes this a continued behavior for him.
M.
take photos of all the injuries/bruises/cuts/scratches this girl does to him.
Document it.
Show it... to her Mom.
I'm glad... your son is NOT hitting her back. Because... she sounds like a real handful... and whatever you want to call her.
Personally I would not want her doing that to MY kid. Son or daughter.
all the best,
Susan
Yeah, she's a bully. You don't risk ruining one's son friendship so that the other can be abused. Talk to the mom, I'm sure she can handle it as a mature adult since you all tend to get along fairly well.
Also, talk to the school principal since this problem is escalating and is happening on school property.
They are both out of line and need to perhaps participate in a small group anti-bullying seminar with district officials.
Take the charged word "bullying" out of this situiation and you are left with kids that need to grow up and just avoid each other if they can act with basic civility. Whether the negative behavior is verbal or physical makes no difference in my book. Both are hurtful are should not be part of an 11 yr old's repetoire.
What is the best way for a bullied child to respond to a bully? The bullied child will ideally be able to identify the bullying behaviors, know that they stem from personal dysfunction of the bully, and thus not personalize the attack. A bullied child should report the bullying behavior to his/her parents and school officials. Greater supervision of the bully and the bullied child will be warranted for purposes of protection. Depending on the nature of the bullying behavior, perhaps the bullied child can desensitize or ignore the bullying behavior. The bullied child should practice assertive behavior. The bullied child should look his/her bully in his/her eyes and calmly say, “That’s not ok. You should treat people with respect.” Some bullies respond well to humor used by their victims. Often, trying new responses that catch bullies off guard can be successful in averting bullying behaviors. A bullied child should discuss his/her response strategies with parents and school officials prior to engaging in those strategies. As the strategy is employed, school officials, parents, and the bullied child may want to visit periodically to ensure that the bullying behaviors have been resolved. If there has been no resolution, new strategies should be planned. In rare cases, either the bully or the bullied child may need to be transferred to a different classroom. However, in most cases, with proper classroom supervision and redirection (from school staff as well as the bullied child), bullying behaviors can be remediated.
To me this isn't kids being kids. This girl is acting out violently toward your son. Would you put up with a boy physically attacking him? No one should be hit, scratched etc. I think you should talk to the girls parents and have them sit down and talk to her. She may have a totally different side of the story. Then the parents should talk to you and your husband. Keep the kids out of the conversation until you hear both sides of the story. Then get together with the kids and parents and talk it out. Something is going on or she would not be reacting violently. The other kids at school may be bullying her and your son participating so they don't pick on him. Or this could be a case of 'puppy love' and they don't know how to handle it. Whatever is going on you need to get to the bottom of it, fast.
I don't think I would talk to the parents, but I would put A LOT of distance between them. If it works for you and for him, drive him instead of bussing him. If it isn't possible to drive, meet with the school principal, tell your story, including the bus incident, and reiterate all the past issues they have had at school. Request some enforced distance for them on the bus, and request they not be placed in the same class in 6th grade and beyond if your school goes past 6th grade. I would tell your son to stay away from her for quite some time. Maybe in time they will both mature out of tormenting each other. In the meantime, don't put them in situations they have to be together.
I see a future prom date between these two when they are older...lol
I wouldn't call it bullying but physical violence is not acceptable. The reason I won't call it bullying is because it starts out as mutual teasing by the sounds of it and esculates which they do at that age. I remember when my son was around that age and he would do things like gently yank on a girls braid or tease her about something or take something of hers. She came to me and told me he picked on her. I told her that at that age when a boy teases and does things for attention it is because he likes her and hasn't learned how to address her in a proper manner. It made her feel better and then I went home and told my son about the conversation. He was horrified that I said he liked her and that is why he was teasing her (which he claims isn't true but I am pretty sure it was) and he never teased her again..lol.
Great news. I hope it works out and you can handle this as parents.
Bullying is such a difficult thing to define, isn't it? On one hand your son has bruises and scratches (that would make me angry) on the other hand, how many times has this girl gone home crying due to something your son has said?
I hope you can work it out for the best on both sides. Good Luck!!!
i would sit both kids down together-it does take 2 to tango-i would give them a good talking to about the bad behavior-get her mom involved-your worried about hard feelings?? whats gonna happen when one of them gets really hurt..and you didnt say anything to her parents-yea kids will be kids-but once they cross those boundaries-they are completely out of control-you have to nip this in the bud an fast.who paid for the recent medical bill??..and if it did scratch his eyeball..then what??..trust me-more damage will be done if you dont handle this with all parents involved.
You can hardly blame the girl if your son isn't going to be made to knock it off. It will only escalate unless someone steps in and they both have consequences for their behavior.
