Suicide, Where Do You Stand

Suicide is self inflicted.

Sacrifice isn't.

Please please please don't put anyone like those serving in the armed forces or law enforcement in the same realm as someone who can't handle life anymore. That is a grave injustice and ABSOLUTELY NO PARALLEL OR COMPARISON.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Now, if I am diagnosed with the same disease as my mother, then my thought process might change. I do not want my family to have to see what I see when I visit my mom. No person should have to end their life like that, especially my mom.

So, I am not for it until I'm for it.

Jo W really said it best.

My husband's cousin committed suicide two days ago. He threw himself in front of a train. He may have been in a lot of emotional pain, but I think it was wrong and selfish. His dad was probably the least person who should have to suffer a loss like this. He has already lost two other sons, one of which was also a suicide.

The problem with your assertion that it is cut and dried suicide to give your life to save others is simply most do not intend to die while saving others.

Saving lives, regardless of your calling puts you in harms way. Suicide must have the intent to die therefore your assertion fails.

Even the body guard who takes a bullet to save someone does not have the intent to die. Their intent is to save the life and sometimes they die in the process.

To accept your assertion would be to accept that anyone who practices a risky career that dies in that line of work is committing suicide. Try telling that to the guys who died on say that oil rig that blew up.

Looking at your what happened your assertion still doesn't fit. The act is not killing one's self, the act is saving others. Perhaps it would help if you could give one example where someone actually killing themselves saved another life. I have never seen that happen.

I cannot discuss until the parameters are defined. :)

I consider suicide wrong in all cases. I don't consider giving one's life to save others a suicide. I also do not consider assisted suicide to actually be suicide. When you are kept alive by unnatural means removing them is allowing you to naturally die, the act of keeping people alive is the unnatural act.

I consider someone who dies to save others, a martyr. I don't believe that is "plain suicide." Also, martyrs are not always heroes. Nor, does the person always care to be a hero.

Suicide...while I can feel great compassion for the mental state putting someone there...is completely selfish. Everyone else in their life is the victim. My family has been rocked by this. There is nothing freeing about suicide, it only causes prisons of pain. (I'm not talking about end of life, terminal disease type of stuff.)

ETA: You said yourself "all opinions welcome." People are giving their opinions. We are reading it how we would like. Please stop trying to dictate answers. It's an interesting discussion, and a shame you don't want answers you didn't expect.

OneandDone - I have known many people (in my family, as well as friend's families) who have committed suicide. All of them were receiving medical care. MOST of then, did not adhere to the medical care, thus the continuing depression. So, they killed themselves instead. Leaving children behind without them. How is that not selfish? I have compassion for the children, not the coward that found it "easier" to deny medical care and just leave.

MartyMOMMA ,

As a child of a parent who committed suicide (I was 13), I think it is a terrible solution to one's problems. It left my family devastated. Suicides don't think of the damage that they inflict on the ones they leave behind. The self doubt, guilt, anger, that are suffered by their loved ones - and the suffering goes on for years, creating a legacy of agony for the family. It is the ultimate selfish act. This is my knee jerk reaction to all things suicide.

With that being said, I am now over 30 years out from my parent's suicide and can see things a little more clearly - she was untreated bi-polar - and I can see how she thought that death was more attractive than living, for she was truly a tortured person. Over the years I have forgiven her and re-found my love for her.

Assisted suicide, to me, is a wholly different matter. This is a decision that should made with the family - in cases of extreme, incurable illness that is only going to bring more agony to the person and their family, I think it is an option that can bring peace.

Ultimately, I think we can chose whether we live or die. Death doesn't need to be done unto ourselves in a dramatic fashion - it can be through conscience, poor decisions that we make - eating poorly, smoking, abusing alcohol/drugs, high risk life styes - with these decisions we chose to hasten our death - hmmm, slow suicide? Certainly less dramatic than jumping off a bridge or something.

As for committing suicide to save another - I would die for my child - don't know if that would be considered suicide.

Heavy question. :)

I think there are different "types" of suicides - if that makes any sense. Taking your life to save others, I do think is selfless. Taking your life because of a terminal illness and suffering I can kind of understand - it's ending your life on your terms. Taking your life because you don't see any alternative is a permanent solution to a temporary problem and a mental illness.

I was at a memorial for a co-worker who completed suicide. The pastor said, "my God would NOT punish someone for having a mental illness."

IMO there is a big difference between sacrificing your life to save others and suicide. Loved ones left behind still grieve, but the pain is different than when someone commits suicide. We have had several suicides in my family and the damage to others is huge.

I think this falls in a similar category as abortions. We have to ask what’s acceptable in our society and what’s not. I guess it could come down to freedom of choice. Our society accepts so many things now days why not this too. Most humans treat each other as disposable anyway. Some can so easily abort a fetus if something is wrong or if it is not considered perfect so why limit it to fetuses. These are not cut and dry situations, they are all different.

I had one friend that shot himself and left everyone wondering why. He didn't leave a note, had a great job, family and friends that cared so much about him. I guess he was just not happy with what he had. This type of suicide is very selfish IMO.

When people give their own life to save others is not the same. If a firefighter runs into a burning building to get people out he is not going in planning on dying, he just knows it is a risk. Military personal don’t always plan to die saving others either. If someone had to give their life to save others then that is a big sacrifice and not everyone would do it.

People that are terminally ill are also different. I watched my grandmother slowly die of ovarian cancer. It was horrible to see how the medicine (chemo) made her even sicker and to have her beg to be put out of her misery.
I think it is more acceptable to give your life for others and/or to not cause anyone else pain to see you suffering. I find it very sad for anyone to just take their own life no matter what the situation. Life changes all the time and some can ride out the bad stuff and some can’t.

There's a nuanced difference between sacrificing your life in order to save someone else's life and committing suicide.

I can't think of any feasible scenario that would require me killing myself in order to save many others (short of the Armageddon movie).

I personally believe that terminally ill patients, patients with chronic pain, etc. should be able to choose to end their own lives. I don't think anyone should be forced to live out their days in suffering pain. We put our dogs down for far less than what some people have to endure during the last moments of their lives, and that to me is horrible.

my uncle commited suicide. and 2 friends just out of high school commited suicide. all over feeling alone, and like noone cared. it leaves the people here that they left behind feeling anger, hopelessness and frustration. sorry, i though i could answer but thats all i can manage cuz my uncle still hurts too much.

"what if you were faced in a situation where you could save more than 1 other life, by taking your own. Would your stance on the subject change?"

Reminds me of Spock in The Wrath of Khan "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" Sniff!

Ultimate sacrifice. In real life soldiers and others do this.

ETA: I think the key word is Sacrifice. Is it considered suicide to give up your life for someone(s) else?

Where does anyone stand on suicide? It is never a clear cut picture.

My husband's cousin took his own life about four years ago because he was so distraught after being pulled over for a DUI. (There were other events leading up to the suicide, but the DUI was the straw that broke the camel's back.) He was only 23 and was such a nice kid. The entire extended family is still hurt and fractured over this.

I would pretty much discourage anyone from contemplating suicide. HOWEVER, if a known pedophile decided to take his own life to prevent himself from hurting other children, I would not stand in his way.

Roflmao.

I guess I'll know my stance when the time comes.

But you guys go ahead and take a stand. Unfortunately when one considers suicide they typically are in a pretty dark place. I don't think outside opinions on their choice will weigh that heavily - they'll just choose.

Suicide is when you knowingly and purposefully take your own life.

Does the definition change if you are knowingly killing yourself to save the lives of others. Not really. I think the after thought for those who are still alive to recount what happened does change though. It is not seen so much as a SUICIDE as it is a heroic act of bravery in order to allow others to live.

I think Suicide is the easy way out of some pretty nasty situations sometimes. Like yesterday in Seattle there was man who went nuts and shot up a busy Cafe.....Then continued to go nuts through the City eventually killing himself to get away from trouble. That to me a the cowards way of saying ''I did, now do something about it''....I felt sickened when I was hoping he would make it through the self inflicted wounds to be able to have justice sought out for his innocent victims...

When the pain in ones life becomes too much to handle though..Suicide may seem like the only way to stop the pain. I can not blame someone who see's life this way. And not everyone is able to pin point those feelings an name them....So it is easier to just die then deal.

Suicide is a scary, sad and complicated thing. It takes a hell of a life to get to that point. Sadly there is no cure for it.......And no hope for a way to end it.....It would take a world of Social Change to make it even diminish.

I am against all forms of dying. But I guess it happens to us all eventually...

"Judge not that you be not judged" We really have no way of knowing what is in someone's heart or mind. Therefore we can't really be ones to say if someone's act or decision is right or wrong.

What in the heck are you talking about? What do you consider a suicide that helps others?

What are you even talking about? I agree with Jo W.

M., for purposes of your study group, I'll throw this one thing out in regards to some of the posters' question here - does giving your life for someone else constitute suicide...

John 15:13 in the Bible says "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

You might use this as a springboard - what constitutes "friends"?

Good luck!
Dawn

I can't picture a situation where someone who is sacrificing themself for another is killing themself. I would die for my kids, if someone shot at them I would step in front of the gun, but it is the gunman who is killing me, not myself. I have suffered from alot of mental health problem and have been in the positions where I have wanted it to end, but was always to afraid of what was on the otherside. Now that I have kids, I feel it would be horriably selfish of me to leave them. I can also understand someone who is in to much physical pain and just wants it to be over. That all being said I don't think any situation is black and white. There is always grey area, always.

I agree--sacrificing of self to save others is certainly an act of heroism. I guess technically, it IS suicide, but I haven't heard it used too much in that circumstance. Interesting perspective on the topic. You're never dull, MartyMomma!

As for people claiming that suicide is a coward's way out, act of selfishness, etc., all I can do in response is shake my head.

Is there no O. left that doesn't think and talk in preprogrammed soundbites anymore? LOL

Do you think for O. minute that if someone was not seriously mentally fragile or ill, they would consider suicide?

I feel compassion for families left behind because their relative was so sick and not receiving medical care, that they couldn't see through today's darkness to the light of tomorrow. Very sad.

Is our life ours to take?
Logically it seems that it would be.
Spiritually it's a question that's been pondered for years upon years.
Some say it's a selfish act because of those that have been left behind to grieve.
Some say it's an act performed out of extreme hopelessness where the desire to live has been completely removed.
I don't think I would do it to myself. That's pretty much where I stand at this particular juncture.

My MIL had very definant ideas on suicide. She felt if someone is suffering and is going to die a death that is only going to become more and more painful then they should be able to take their own life on their own timetable.

I had to start a whole process of thinking about suicide in a different light. I think that if a person is dying from some disease like MS, end stage cancer, or Lou Gehrigs disease where there is no cure and they are very close to death then they should not have to linger and suffer every breath for days, weeks, or even months.

I do not think I could help them. I would want to not have that image in my mind the rest of my life. I do understand why someone would want to end their pain in those cases.

I had a friend who died from Lou Gehrigs disease. She eventually suffocated to death due to her brain not sending out the right signals or something. It was so hard on her family. They watched her struggle for each and every breath for days. She would even gasp in her sleep to catch a breath. It was something the will never forget. She was LDS and the family felt any intervention would send their mother to hell. She lived in hell the last few weeks of her life instead.

For someone who does not have serious health issues where they are at the end of their life and suffering, they need to have intervention and all the help to make changes so they can have a life they want and are able to live life to the fullest they can. There are many people who have to take antidepressants every day for the rest of their lives to make the chemicals in their brain the right levels. Then they are able to be happy, hold down jobs, live life to their fullest with medical intervention.

We are all going to die at some point, why speed it up...suicide is selfish and those who commit it needed help and people like us were not available...That's the sad part of it..

Firstly, I am kinda offended by the notion that people who commit suicide are mentally ill. On the contrary, some are quite sane and in dealing with the life that is, find that there's no other way to stop hurting. Most of the time it's well thought out. Planned months and years in advance. Meticulously done. No mentally ill person can take into account all that those who have committed suicide or thought of/planned to but didn't.

Suicide for suicides sake is HORRIBLE. No matter what the circumstance. And I don't think that my life has any less value that the person whos life I would save should I take my own.

But I do believe in assisted suicide. I do believe that a person should be able to be in control of their own fate in the end with dignity.

I don't think there's anything heroic about killing yourself regardless.

I think that life is a gift.

I hope that didn't ramble too much....

Well I'd say suicide is usually something that is done by a mentally ill person not of sound mind at the time. That is different than a cry for help but they are trying to show someone they are ill or hurt so much that they need help and aren't hoping to be successful in the first place. Being a martyr is different. You aren't in a state of mind where if you got put in a 72 hour hold.... they'd continue to hold you.

I think the difference would be mentally ill commit suicide almost entirely and someone who sacrifices themselves is more than likely is or would be considered of sound mind. I don't think they are the same thing really when it comes down to it. I know the definition is so broad that they both meet the definition but typically we think of suicide as something a mentally ill person does and self sacrifice, martyrdom, etc as something entirely different.

Where do I stand? I think it's a case by case basis. Can you really say you are surprised if someone who is bipolar commits suicide. 1 in 4 is the stats there. Clinical depression and things of this nature have a high suicide rate as well. But more than likely people already knew they were sick so it's pry not as shocking or jarring as say the teenager who is hoped up on hormones and doesn't understand how to help the pain.... which is different than someone who jumps in front of a train to save a child but perishes as a result. It all sucks when it comes down to it for the loved ones because they are dead. I guess the family of the mentally ill one can rationalize that they are mentally ill, the loved one of the child well they wouldn't be able to rationalize anything and would pry feel extreme guilt on their part and yet the person who saved someone else the family would pry feel a myriad of emotions in both directions.

Being bipolar 1 I can say that I think of suicide alot. I have tried to find some ease to my pain for years and contrary to what people think there isn't much for my ease. Unless I'm sedated out of my mind which is kinda the psychs idea of victory anyways I'm in pain. If I'm sedated I'm sleeping or I feel vacant and void anyways. My mind doesn't work like a normal persons. I don't like walking down my hallway and seeing people that aren't there, I don't like the whispers in my ear, I'm embarrassed of my outbursts when my mind starts going to fast. I don't like being so paranoid that I check the locks on my doors more times than I can count in a day and run to my children's rooms at night just sure they've died, been stolen. I hate that I have insomnia and can't fall asleep till the sun comes up. I hate that I'm paranoid of people and that having a conversation with people is so draining that half the time I need a nap afterwards because I feel physically ill. I hate that sometimes I get so depressed I could sit in a corner and stare at the wall all day for days and just wish I'd disappear into the wall. Medicine or no I don't feel like a normal person. I haven't since I was a child. Do I hope I don't ever get so out of it that I commit suicide Yes! Luckily I have such a loving little family and an amazing husband that he helps me every single day and usually even when I'm paranoid I'm not of him.

So as being a person on the other side on a day when I'm doing good like today I still can see both sides. Is it selfish to ask someone who is very very ill to tough it out for you because taking their life is now going to cause you pain. Are you the selfish one? Is them transferring their pain to you selfish? I mean do you look at someone who is terminally ill and get mad at them for dying? Pry yeah in the end. Regardless, my life isn't like a normal person and it never will be. All I can do is put one foot in front of the other and hope. That is all I have is hope.