Seeking Advice. Maybe from Someone Who Has Been or Is Where I Am At?

Hang in there! I know it's really tough but I have had some really great luck using a system called 1-2-3 Magic. It's a short and easy read and it has worked wonders for us! Good luck.

She is too old to be picking on the little one in this manner. You will have to be very consistant with disciplining her every time she does anything. A 10 minute timeout and apology to start with but just be consistant.

Hi L.-!

That is a tough situation! It is heart wrenching to see kids treat each other poorly - it is one of the things that can make me the saddest as a mother.

I don't know your whole situation, but here are a few tips that I've learned over the years. It sounds like your older child is stuck in a negative behavior pattern that you will have to teach her to get out of.

For a while the consequence for my kids for being mean to a sibling (I have 4 kids) was that there were no privileges at ALL for the offending child until the offending child did something genuinely nice for the sibling they hurt. This could be making their bed, doing their chores, playing a game with them, etc. This takes work to enforce.

When an incident happens that the older child hurts the younger one, immediately stop whatever activity is going on, say nothing - pick up the hurt child and leave the room - do not give immediate attention to the older child. Do not reward bad behavior with attention - negative or otherwise. I've even had to lock myself in the bathroom to get away from a child who is insisting on negative attention.
In about 20 minutes, or when the offending child has calmed down - talk with the older child - simply tell her that her decision was not a good one, and ask her how should she have handled the situation? Don't yell at her, or call her names, just wait for an answer - and then talk about what decision would have been the best. Tell her that you love her and know she can do better and then tell your older child what the consequence will be for that behavior. In the beginning you will be doing this a LOT. Keep up with it-

At the same time, start noticing positive things your older child does - no matter how small. (Thank you for not calling your brother a name) (I noticed how you drew that picture - very nice) (Thank you for setting the table) (thank you for picking up your wrapper and throwing it away). - it is hard to get in this pattern, but it is essential to turning your daughter's negative pattern around. If all she hears is how she is doing everything wrong, she will never learn to do it right. If she learns positivity, she will start to apply that to her relationship with her brother.

Another thing is to regularly encourage acts of service within your family. Such as having a surprise for daddy when he comes home, or making a special dinner/treat or homemade item for a sibling or a parent. Even small kids can do this - you can encourage and help your kids serve each other - this will foster an attitude of cooperation and goodwill rather than competition.

Tell your kids that because you love them so much it is painful for you to see them mistreat each other and so it won't be allowed in your house - they can love each other too, just as you love them. There is never a shortage of love - it just increases! And if you show patience and kindness to your kids, your husband and others, your kids will eventually model that behavior (hard to do sometimes!:). It takes a while!

Good luck with this situation!!!

I understand how hard it can be. I have a step son who is very loving to my son one minute and then tries to be controlling the next and when confronted can have some major outbursts. One thing we started to do for him is put him on a five point system. He starts out the day with five points and has to earn his privledges. Which tend to be dessert or his good night show. He has to have all five points at the end of the day to get his good night show. He keeps his points by making right choices and being nice and not throwing tantrums. Each time he has a tantrum or is doing something he knows he shouldn't he looses a point. After he looses a point he has the opportunity to earn that point back by doing extra chores or whatever I have him do. Usually I have him do things that are not done everyday. But he has to work without complaining for it to count. And if he does something nice for my son he can also earn a point that way. It was hard at first because he really tested us in the begining. He continued to scream and throw fits. But we were consistent and we kept explaining to him what we expected of him and now things are a little better. He still does have a tantrum here but he is also able to at times get himself under control and excepts his consiquences easier. I wish I could say it solves the problem completly, but at least I can say it does help a little. Both my husbands family and my family live out of state. so I know what it is like to not have family help. This is one option we have come up with. It might help you also. Good luck.

I don't know if your son still naps, but if so, can you schedule some time with your daughter then? Or if he goes to be earlier than she does, make some special bed time routines with her. I know when your husband is home you all want to spend time as a family, but remember that your son and daughter could both benefit from some one on one time with each of you. It can be even just once a week for 30 minutes

And as far as church goes, they can be a source of support for more than just babysitting. The comfort and strength of Christ can do wonders. I have a book I try to read every morning that is a devotional for mothers. Just knowing I'm not the only one going through these things, and finding scripture to back up what I do as a mother helps to soothe my aching heart.

Dear L.,
I know how you feel not having help. I don't have family close by or friends that could have helped when my kids were small. My daughter is now 13 and my son is 10. We feel blessed that they get along, but I know it took a lot of work to make that happen.
First, you've got to focus on getting your daughter to respect her brother (or respecting anyone for that matter). A little sit down chat with her is a good start. Be calm and remind her how she wants to be treated or describe to her how your family treats each other. Then you lay down the law for misbehavior. Tell her that there are consequences for misbehaving and showing disrespect to any member of the family including her brother. This general rule of respect will work as the kids become teenagers. Explain that the short-term consequence is immediate time-out (put her somewhere where she can no nothing but think about her actions). You can also have long-term consequences like no tv, no computer, no playdates, etc. You'll have to define misbehave and disrepect - you know best what behavior is inappropriate. Be as clear as possible when defining inappropriate behavior. Try not to give in, although there may be a time when you have to re-evaluate the rules and make adjustments.
Just remember to consistent, firm, and swift. If she misbehaves, you institute the time-out within seconds. No more warnings since you've already talked to her and told her the new rules. Being swift in putting her in timeout will make her realize you are serious and that it is a new day with new rules. Be strong, do not falter.
As moms, we want to give in, be loving and caring. Dads are so much better about the disciplining, well at least in my household. My husband was so quick about putting my son in timeout that he learned quickly that we were serious about a behavior being not acceptable. His timeouts were few and far between.
Don't forget to offer the carrot as well as the stick. If she behaves well then maybe she gets a special treat, something she really wants/likes. It's more of a reward than a bribe. Remember, a behavior rewarded is a behavior repeated.
Good luck.
L.

I dont have any experience the situation you are in, however when I was reading your post, the first thing that came to mind was to create a graph with behaviors for your 9 year old and get stickers to fill in when she is being helpful to the 3 year old, or to you or your husband you can also add things like good grades, or helping take the garbage, when she gets a certain amount of stickers/points she gets a reward, such as pick the park you go to, an allowance, gets to pick whats for dessert, you get the point. I don't know if it will help, might be worth a try. good luck.
M.

Some thoughts/suggestions:

1 - talk to her teachers. Is there anything going on at school - does she appear happy & play well with others or is she angry or quiet & withdrawn? Has anyone at school noticed any changes in behavior in the past year and a half? Are there anger management resources at school? Does her teacher know her? like her?

2 - As I recall, she's at an age where dads are especially important to girls too (8-12 is supposed to be prime dad/daughter time). Perhaps you two can take turns with the one on one time with your children. Even half an hour - make it a priority. Put it on the calendar so the kids see that this is important to you.

Doing an inexpensive/free activity like making bread, walking, can give her space to open up - listen to her without judgment, see if she'll open up to you. She sounds like she is in pain about something.

3 - Great book, easy read (cartoon format and text): Siblings Without Rivalry. It's been around a long time and is still great. Companion book, same format and authors: How to Talk so Your Kids Will Listen, How to Listen so Your Kids Will Talk.

Good luck, Connie

L.,

Have you thought of joining a Mom's Group? You could get your children together with other children and their moms for playdates. I think this could help you tremendously. Make some friends with other moms and you can swap childcare once in a while. Get your children used to being with other kids and learning how to share and work with others. Just a thought. Good luck!

Molly

It seems that you need to make an ally out of your daughter. Since she is 10, she is old enough to take on some responsibility around the house. See if you can work to make her your helper... Have her help you with fixing dinner, help you with certain chores (changing linens on the beds, and other things that are easier done with two people), folding laundry, etc. Then let her know how much you appreciate her help. Since, clearly, your three-year old is too young to help with those kinds of things, it might make your daughter feel important and more central to your life and family life. A sense of responsibility does wonders for kids this age. And this way, you'll be spending one-on-one time with her, but accomplishing what you need to around the house. It will also keep her occupied and will not leave her alone in a room with her little brother so that, hopefully, those patterns of picking on him will be broken. Good luck!

Well, you say you are a stay at home mom? Your 9 yr old must be in school for most of the day which gives you plenty of time for you and your 3 yr old. When Sissy gets home from school you should greet her with excitement that she's home. She is obviously jealous of the little one and needs some special care until her self esteem gets back on track. 9 yr olds don't need a 3 year old geting into "their stuff" and messing up their room and such. She should be allowed her own space where little brother will soon learn he cannot be in unless invited by her. This gives her a bit of control. The 3 year old probably gets on her nerves when she's doing 9 yr old things. Motherhood is what you make of it. It's always a challenge and there is nothing more satisfying than seeing your kids play nicely together and hearing their laughter. Your goal as a full time mom is to try to make that work. You have to think like a 9 yr old and a 3 yr old and give to each of them what they need to feel fulfilled, equally loved and cherished. It's never an easy job. Plenty of us didn't have family around to help raise kids, so dont feel sorry for yourself about that. Teaching big sis to care for her little brother is usually achieved by watching mommy do it. If she sees you stressed out, then she thinks little brother may be causing it and in turn she resents him. You need to teach her that little brother is a joy and fun to play with. Do things that make little brother laugh, and when she makes him laugh she will feel good about it. It's all about being happy not about being sad and angry. Little brother needs to be taught to respect big sister.... Hope this helps you get on track. Be thankful you get to be a stay at home mom. Send sissy off to school in a blaze of glory and greet her with the same enthusiasm. She needs to feel special.

This may seem overly simple, but sometimes when parents get in reactive mode (like dealing with a repeatedly angry or misbehaving child), it's hard to get out of it.

"Alone time" with your daughter could be as simple as just looking her in the eyes and giving her your full attention when she talks to you. A two minute conversation, where you're not washing dishing, chasing her brother, or worrying about how to get everything done, will do wonders. Try, several times a day, to have a REAL conversation with your daughter, where she feels like you and her are the only two people in the world. They don't have to be long conversations, but kids get starved for undivided attention from their parents.

I'd also suggest having your daughter help you with chores. Give her jobs that will make her feel like the big girl she is. Can you and she plan a dinner she could make for the family? There are lots of things a 9 year old can cook (or bake), and the results will make her feel very special.

Lastly, I'd consider that your daughter may need some stimulation beyond what's available in your home. Can she invite friends over, or take some kind of after-school class or program? Just having something else exciting in her life (and something new to discuss with you in your personal conversations!) might help her to take her focus off of her brother.

Good luck!

I understand that it makes the most sense to have family time when your husband is available, but I think that for right now your daughter needs to be a priority. It doesn't have to be this way forever, but when he's around you could be taking her out for special time together and setting up situations outside of the heat of the moment when you could be talking about what's going on with her. She needs to know that her feelings matter, that it's OK to have them. The behavior is unacceptable, but there's nothing wrong with feeling jealous or angry or lonely or WHATEVER it is she feels. Start talking about healthy ways to deal with her feelings, she's old enough to be writing in a diary; she could be writing your or her dad if that feels safer. She needs healthy outlets for emotions, and you need to give her the time and guidance to find them.

Hello,
I hear you sister...I know the desperation you are feeling. I'm a mother of three kids, 10, 5 and 3 1/2, never have had help, family lives far away, I used to run a daycare also...so you can imagine. My oldest is a boy and he had a hard time having a little sister after five years of being the only child. So we let him have his space and private time to play and watch things his sister couldn't. She tends to beat him up and pick on him, luckily he is this overly kind boy and he tries not to hurt her, though there are times it just happens. I try to find activities they can together and apart but in the same household. It is hard to be the older sibling, I know because I am one and my sister picked on me and I was blamed for everything. The things I try to do with my two younger children to keep them from literally killing each other, (they can fight like you wouldn't believe) I try to give them things to do together where they have to help each other, and then sometimes I have to completely seperate them and get them into seperate activities. Being six years apart makes it kind of hard because the oldest doesn't want anything to do with the younger one right now. Maybe you can give your oldest a private place, somewhere the little one can't get and make it special for them so they feel like mommy and daddy are giving me something they aren't giving my sibling. I try to just explain everything, sometimes overly, but I let my son know what the situation is, that I understand how he feels and I appreciate all the help he does. Reward the good behavior all the time, I know it is hard because you find them doing naughty things that you want to punish them for, so try to tell them how good you would of felt if they had acted different. I don't know that any of this is going to help you, but I thought I'd give it a try. Good luck, hang in there, they are only young for a little while. I feel for you, I really do!

good luck,
A.

Dear L.,
I am very sympathetic to your situation. First of all I can't believe that someone would suggest joing a religious group to find support/child care, especially if your not religious to begin with. It sounds like you really have your hands full and need a support system. Have you thought of joing your towns mom/parent group? I dont know what county you live in, but im sure if you go online you'll find something. They are not expensive to join and it is a great way for moms to socialize, share advice and support one another. As for your little girl, maybe one day a week your husband can hang out with your little one and your daughter and you can have girls day. It might be a good time for you to talk to her and try to get inside her head to see whats behind her behavior.
Best of luck and happy holidays!
B.

Hi L.,
I think that all of the moms have given great advice. Remembering back to when I was that age, I noticed that nobody mentioned making sure your daughter has time to do things with her friends. She is getting to an age that family is somewhat "boring" and that she is wanting to spend time with a close girlfriend. Also remember that your daughter was numbero uno for 6 years before little bro came along and for the past 3 years she hasn't been...that's a long time for her to build up resentment. It is also a difficult situation to handle easily and effectivley. Have you considered taking her to a couselor as someone to talk to? Schools sometimes provide them for free and I know that churches often do. She may tell a third party what is bugging her and causing her to act out. Kids don't feel like they can be honest with their parents about their feelings sometimes because they are afraid to disappoint them. You daughter is old enough to know that her behavior is inappropriate and that she shouldn't be doing what she is doing. Also, look and see if your son is antagonizing her when you aren't looking. If he can "do no wrong" and your daughter is seeing that, she may feel like she is being treated unfairly by you and dad thus causing her to act out toward him. To give you one on one time with your kids, you should get some for your son when your daughter is at school. When she is home, send your son over to a neighbors house for an hour or two to get some girl time to paint your toenails and just talk without any distractions. Your daughter needs to know that she (and her time) are important to you. It isn't hopeless...you will find a way to work it out! Best wishes!

Hey L.,
Regarding the sibling rivalry, I'm not quite there yet - both mine are very young, and only 18mo apart. Regarding networking with other moms: There are babysitting co-ops, I believe there are even other mamasource moms involved. If you check out the site under postings/responses, then childcare, I believe you'll find other postings about childcare co-ops. That might help you to connect with other moms, get some one-on-one time with your older child, or even a kid free evening here and there to enjoy with your husband... of course, it would be in exchange for watching another little one on occasion, but that may be fun for your three year old!
Best wishes!!

Hi- I think it is really important you find some time to spend alone with your daughter. It is not OK that she is treating a 3-year-old that way and she seems to be asking for attention. I have a 10-year old girl too and she is really changing and growing up this past year. I want to have the best relationship with her I can as she enters her teen years. We don't have time for tons of mother daughter stuff either (I also have a 6 year-old-girl) but we go on walks together a few times a week, I still read aloud to her, cook or do crafts and sometimes it's just a few minutes doing hair or talking. Maybe your husband can spend some time each week alone with your son and you and your daughter can have some time too. It doesn't have to cost a thing and it is time you both will value so much. Another idea is to put the little one to bed on the weekend and stay up and watch a movie together. She needs time alone with you and then if the behavior continues, have no tolerance for it. It is not OK for her to bully a 3-year-old. She should look at him as a baby not a rival. Maybe you could talk to her about it in a really adult way, like you need to help your Dad and I be responsible for your little brother. Really she is at the age where she could be watching him alone soon and you have to be able to trust her to be responsible. All siblings argue sometimes but with the age gap you have it should be rare. Good Luck!

Wow, that is a lot for one person to take. I have two suggestions.
1- Try calling the big brother/big sister organization. I am the only child to a single young working mother and had 2 big sisters and 1 big brother who would come and do activites with me once or twice a month. It was awesome to not only get out of the house, but to have someone who was just for me, I didn't share them or there time with anyone else, and I knew they cared about me because they weren't related and well, they CHOOSE to spend time with me. It's an awesome organization. The other positive is, a lot of times they took me to do things we would never have been able to afford.
2- Maybe check with her school to see if there is anything else going on there. Maybe someone is bulling her and she is taking it out on her brother.

Okay 3 things
the last one is, I suggest you take her out and spend one on one time with her at least every other week, even if it means keeping her up past her bedtime to go for a walk once brother is in bed. She NEEDS to have that from her mom. it's hard, I know. I have two small children and I have had ZERO one on one time with my older since the baby was born, but hearing this reaffirms how neccessary it is. Dad needs to realize how important it is, and maybe take one for the team on a weekend and let you take her to the movies while he stays with the 3 year old.

Your daughters self esteem will raise higher than you know by just taking a little time out here and there for her and her alone. Maybe let her help cook dinner while dad plays with the 3 year old. Sort laundry with her, etc. The little things add up. Or maybe plant something that the two of you can have as your special project (I say this knowing whole heartidly that it's not something I mayself would do, but it's an idea).

Hope you find a solution soon, if only for your sanity.

Oh and I'm in the SAME boat as you when it comes to mom's clubs, etc. I work full time, an hours drive from home, nothing happens on teh weekends because everyone has family time and my husband works out of town during the week and all family lives to far to babysit........there has to be a way to get personal time. If you figure out how to, please pass along.

read, "siblings without rivalry". you can get it on cd too. check with the library, you can rent it free there. good luck!!

L.,
I've been where you are, and totally understand your frustration. My husband and I often take turns taking one child out for a special outing, allowing them to have some special 1:1 time with each of their parents. I have found that I really enjoy my kids on a 1:1, and it gives me a break from the constant bickering. Time with my husband alone is very tough to come by because we don't have family or friends who are willing to take the kids. The only time we have for each other is after the kids are asleep, and occasionally when they are both on play dates. You have to grab those moments when you get them. Best of luck!

Dear L.,
I'm so sorry you are going through all this.
My kids are 10 years apart and my daughter absolutely doted on her little brother. He was HER baby! She absolutely just adored him and wanted to play and help him all the time. I didn't intend to have my kids that far apart, but it worked out great because neither of them needed attention from me on the same level. As she got older, it was a little difficult for him when she wanted friends over and not so much the hassle of her little brother. But I reminded her that when she was little, no one ever made her feel left out.
Picking on younger siblings seems to be a way of establishing a hierarchy that we really shouldn't do in family situations. Sure, younger sibs can be annoying, but we are supposed to protect those that we love.
Perhaps ask your daughter how she would feel, or what she would do if someone else, say a kid down the street, picked on her brother constantly. Hopefully, she would say that she would protect him.
If she needs a little more time and attention from you, that's fine, but make it clear that the way to go about getting it isn't by bullying her little brother. That will land her in time out and priveleges being taken away. And, make it clear that before she blames her punishment on her brother, she is plenty old enough to be in charge of her own choices and behavior. You're bigger than she is. Would she like you being mean to her just because you're bigger and you can? Ask her exactly what she hopes to gain by picking on her brother and how it makes her feel when she does it.
Try to find things for them to do together.
When she's been mean, insist that she say she is sorry and give her brother a hug. Let her know that he will learn so many things from her and if she's not careful, the day will come when he fights back because he's sick of it.
I just wish you the very best.

hi, is it possible to relocate near your hubby's family? that is what we may do, i have never had family near either, and my hub is always out of town working.

In addition to much of the advice you've already gotten I think that it is also important to really emphasize the idea of what it means to be a role model. My sister and I are 6 years apart and, although we were quite the opposite of your two - I think we've had a total of 2 fights, both of my parents really made me understand how much my sister would look up to me.
When I was 10, I remember wanting to watch a movie at the same time that she wanted to watch a cartoon and I got mad, then decided it was just silly to get mad at a 4 year-old for wanting to watch carebears.

As for the sibling pestering, I would take one of two possible approaches:
1) Ask for her "help" when you have to leave the room. Plan ahead, and tell her how special it is that she is a big enough girl to be able to help you out with things.
2) Tell her that since she can't "yet" be trusted to not pester her brother while you are out of the room, that she must stop what she is doing and come with you while you are in the other room. Expect some resistance, but stick to your guns and insist.

****

The key to not being "taken advantage of" in baby-sitting groups is to be assertive. Easier said than done, I know. The key to getting your share of sitters is to either ask first (let them be the ones to arrange their turn) OR when someone asks you to baby-sit tell them you have to check your calendar.

Go and take a look at your calendar, but not just to see if you are going to be busy at the time they need a sitter. You are also looking at your calendar to quickly plan a time/day that they can return the favor WHILE YOU HAVE THEM ON THE PHONE and it is fresh in their mind.

Example:
<_ Telephone rings and "Jenny" is on the phone. _>
Jenny: Hey, L., can you baby-sit for me on Tuesday morning?
L.: Hold on, let me go check my calendar.
<_ L. goes and looks at her calendar to see if she is free that Tuesday, and also quickly plans errands/daughter alone-time/Mommy nap time for Friday afternoon. _>
L.: Sure, Jenny. I can baby-sit for you on Tuesday morning. I was just starting to look for a sitter on Friday afternoon. Could you sit for me then?
Jenny: Ooo. No, sorry. Can't do that day. I already have plans.
L.: I'm somewhat flexable. It doesn't HAVE to be Friday afternoon. Can I hold while you check your calendar? What day is good for you?

The implication is clear that you expect a return baby-sit. She already said no to your first choice after you agreed to sit for her. Then you put her "on the spot" so to speak by asking HER to name the day/time instead. It's not something she can gracefully say "No" to. Be sure to not make it too far in the future or she might "forget".

Jenny: Uh, I have Thursday free.
L.: Great. How about 3pm? Can you write it on your calendar?
Jenny: Ok.
L.: I'll see you on Tuesday morning AND Thursday afternoon then! I look forward to it.

****

Other options are the local YMCA and City Community Centers. Both often have programs for families without much support in the area. Most of them also have sliding scales for payment options.

****
One thing that is fun to do, inexpensive, and helps make connections is to have a Coffee Social/Tea Party.

Tell a few people you're having a "Cookie Pot-Luck / (Dress-Up) Tea Party" (/Coffee Social") would they like to join you?" If they say yes, you say "I'll be getting (sugar) cookies for the pot luck. Can you bring a different type so we don't get the same thing?" (This is a gentle reminder that it IS a pot luck.) Plan it for after lunch so the kids don't fill up on cookies. Buy a small bag of cookies, make some coffee/tea, put on a movie for the kids, and just relax - keeping half an eye on the kids. I wouldn't invite more than 3 adults and their respective kids, or the number tends to get out of hand.

Have your kids help make table decorations, place/name cards and a Welcome sign for the front door. Ask your daughter to help you pick out something to wear, then ask her what she is going to wear. Let your 3 year old "help" you get ready by brushing your hair.

If you want to go one step further, get a tube of decorator icing and a small bottle of sprinkles and let each child decorate one cookie.

I am in a very similar situation. I have a 10 year old daughter and a 4 year old son. The oldest had a very hard time with the little one. He is very clingy to me and she had everyone to herself for 6 years. All the fighting and argueing got to me so I took her to see a therapist to help her deal with her jealousy. The therapist told her that her brother was now part of the family and was not going to leave. She told her that she needs to get used to him and find a way to connect with him. It has taken a while but now that he is 4 1/2 and able to play games and really understanding the rules of many pretend games they are getting along better. They have many days were they play nicely. Don't get me wrong, they still argue but it comes less often.
Where do you leave? It would be nice to meet a family that has kids as far apart as mine. Most of the families we know have either older or younger kids. It makes it hard to connect because on kid is alsways feeling left out or we have to schedule a play date for that child.
I try when my daughter has a friend over to make sure that my son also has someone to play with, so that he does not bother her and her friend.
Sorry so lond winded. If you want to talk just send me an email.

Good morning L.,

First, I feel for you/relate with you. Second, the ten year old is too old to be acting like this. Her behavior is totally inappropriate. I would begin with setting up very structured actitivites that were especially for her (I am not really in tune with ten year olds so I am not sure what good activities would be - maybe trips to the library), you guys could start bike riding (put the little one in a trailer on the back of your bike)...you get the idea. At any rate, try getting her into activites like this - outside ones if any are offered and affordable. If her behavior doesn't improve, she would start spending a lot of time in her room. Really, it sounds as though you have talked to her repeatedly. After encouraging some special "just for big sister" activities, if this does not improve her behavior, everytime she is mean, she would either lose something that is important to her for a week (or whatever is the appropriate amount of time) or she would be sent to her room to think about ways she can suggest to change her behavior. Put her in control of improving herself and see what happens.
Good luck.

Hi L.....are you here in paradise? if so the alliance church (CMA church) has a two or three hour window where you can drop your child or children for errands and such...i believe it is $10 for one kid for the whole two three hours. this might free up a day a week for you to have total one on one time with your daughter...you can do your errands with your daughter? not sure if she's in school...but i believe the hours are like ten am to one pm..i am going thru the same thing with our four year old and our year old son...such trying times! and i do understand the noise overload! and yes, it is hard to have friends who don't have 24-7 kid duty! but it is possible, maybe you could have one day a month when your hubby is home to just go out with the girls...do anything out of the house...we do need "me" time it only refreshes us for our children's sake...good luck and feel free to email me...steph

Hi L.,

I recommend a great book, which is probably at your local library called Sibling Without Rivalry by Faber and Mazlish. It is a classic and has great cartoon to show how to apply the principles. They also did a book called How to Talk so Kids Will Listen & Listen so Kids Will Talk. This way you and your husband can work together.

The other thing I would say is that it is easy to become isolated and then get stuck there. There are moms groups that do not cost money, nor have expectations about money, and there are people out there who could be great resources. If you tell yourself nothing is going to change in the next few years, then it won't. Have you considered that maybe you have shut off possibilities by assuming that others expect you to be a certain way? Have you spoken up for your needs in swapping? Not everyone comes form a happy, loving family either (mine was very mixed), but I have found that when I ask in a positive way for what I need I get more responses (not always getting what I want and not expecting it). I had to learn that maybe I wasn't very adept at making friends and had to let go of some of the ways I had compensated for my own family's expectations that weren't working for me.

What I'm trying to say is that if I expected people to always remember to be reciprocal, it didn't happen and I needed to be willing to ask first for what I needed. Obviously, if someone really took advantage of me, I said no and moved on. There are some good people out there if we let go of our expectations of the worst.

Although you say you have little time together as a family due to the work schedules, you and your husband may still want to take separate time with the children - I learned to be more flexible and not have to follow a certain script of what is right - this helped free me to enjoy what I did do with my children.

Best wishes,

L.

You know I've been getting these for awhile now, ever since my daughter had a baby and have never really responded to any, mostly read the problems that everybody has and let my daughter know she wasn't alone in her situations with my granddaughter and believe me when I had my daughter I was a single parent, had to work a full time job and deal with my daughter and didn't always do a lot of things right, felt guilty for being the one to do the discpline, her dad was always the fun one, I was the mean one but I wasn't tough enough because I didn't want to be that way all the time, so I let things slide but I learned that they don't remember the times you had to come down on them, that they respect you more for being a little tough and enforcing the discpline that they need and it sounds like your daughter is just jealous of the baby and that is normal I think but feel that you need to punish her for this kind of behaviour, and thats being a good mother, you can't let her get away with it. I let my daughter get away with too much, too tired to deal with it, didn't want to be the one doing all the punishing but she was with me a lot more then with her dad so I should've been stronger in that regard. And believe me it does get better, seems hard now but it will get better. Just try talking to her, one on one, try spending a little more one on one with her when you can and don't feel guilty if you can't always do it, but you have to make her understand that what she is doing isn't right, and she will get something taken away if she continues and you have to stick to it even when it feels hard to do, that is where I messed up the most and paid for it later when my daughter got older cause believe me if they think they can get away with it at 9 can you imagine what they will think when they are 13, 14, 15, 16 those years are hell on you if you don't get her under control now and I am talking from experience so trying to help my daughter with my granddaughter who is 20 months, time outs work great with her right now but a 9 yr old, no tv, no desert, no playdates, no computer time, etc and good luck.

Hi L.,
First, regarding the sibling rivalry: read 'Siblings without rivalry' by A. Faber. It's an easy read and is full of practical advice on how to get your kids to get along. As for your need for more adult time, consider joining a mother's club (one that meets physically, that is) of some sort. You can join the babysitting co-op, which will give you more time with your husband, and attending playgroups and other events will give you more adult time.

L.,

I am writing to you both as a mother of two (I have a six and 2 year old) as well as a sister of a much younger brother (i was 13 when my brother was born). Ok, first of all...your daughter's world has been completly shaken. The inital months/year was probably fun and exciting for her but now that the novelty of the new baby has worn off she's realizing that life will never go back to how it was for her. This is a hard reality for a kid, especially becasue there is absolutly nothing that she can do to charge this reality. She has a new role in the family which it sounds like she does not know how to handle. It is your and your husbands job to teach her how to be an older sister. Let her have some responsiblities around taking care of her brother. Start with little things like helping him pick out his clothes, or making him a snack when they are home together. Little things that she can take ownership of with him. Also this allows your son to see her as a friend and ally and someone he can trust. Additionally it is important to let your children work out their differences. I agree with you that her behvior of picking on him is unexceptable and she needs to know that, but your son also needs to learn to defend himslef and use his words to tell her to back off. I know that it is hard to not come to their rescue when they are fighting or someone is being mean/getting picked on, but your job as a parent is to teach them to communicate with eachother to form their own healthy relationship. Your daughter should have clear responsibilites and consequences. So for example if you ask her to help get him dressed and she refuses, or instead makes it impossible for them to complete the task...then she looses something (no tv, no friends over, whatever, but be clear and follow through). Of course your son is three and may make things hard for her (especially in the begining) but remind your daughter that it is her job to figure out how to make it work (becasue yes, she is older). You can give her suggestions like "see if he'd like to pick out his clothes and then you can help put them on", or "try signing a song" or whatever tricks you might use, you can make suggestions, but don't tell her what to do. Let them figure it but remember that they need some guidance to learn how to be siblings. Good luck!

I can totally relate to being on your own with no help. My kids are closer in age, but both my husband's family and my family live 3000 miles away. I know you said you tried a mom's group and it didn't work out, but you should try again. I belong to two, and they have been my saving grace since staying home with the kids. My husband works all the time so I can continue to stay home, so I can't complain about the kids to him since he is giving up his time with them so I can have it. I really do appreciate it, but every person needs a break once in awhile. I have a great relationship with a friend who works part-time. We trade babysitting services for important things like doctors appts etc and also when the other one just needs a break. It is a Godsend. That and just having something to do with the kids out of the house is great.
As far as your older child's behavior, she is old enough to understand her actions and consequences for her actions. You need to have a zero tolerance policy and nip these behaviors in the bud. Also, I am assuming your younger child naps and or goes to bed earlier than your daughter where you could have quality time with your daughter while your younger child sleeps.

I had a non caring oldest sister who descriminated me and made me feel bad most of my life while I was single. I had a poor self esteem for a long time. Once we both got married, things got better between us. My mom constantly compared me with my perfect sister; BUT thanks to our church and our understanding of the gosple, I never resented or hated her. I loved her and admired her all the time; I still wish to be more like her in many aspects, but in a loving way.
Religion can help you cope with your daily struggles; the Lord provides peace inside your heart and inside your home. Do not under estimate this very aspect in every human being. Many children learn to accept and love their sibling through the gospel.
Good luck

Hi L.,

I am so sorry about your situation. I, too, am going through something similar. I have a 9 yr old girl, a 6 yr old girl, and a 4 yr old boy. Just recently my eldest broke her leg and can't go to school so she is home all the time with me and the youngest. So, on top of his alone time being sapped she tortures him just because she is bored. Also, the 6 yr old is crying all the time because she has to go to school and no one else does. My husband, as wonderful as he is, is at work most of the time and we really only get him on Saturdays.

So, here is what I do. I have made a rule that if anyone cries (because the younger ones milk it when the older ones pick) everyone is on time out. Then, I have daily quiet time from 3 to 5. They are allowed to do homework and read, but no toys and no tv. I tell them that this is my time for quiet and they cannot play with each other or watch tv. My son will frequently just sit in his bed and look at books while my daughters do homework. (It takes them about 2 hours with the reading they have to do.) So, everyone is separate and quiet. Last, I give extra attention to the kids without broken legs because she gets a lot with the therapy and the carrying of stuff and the inability to do chores, etc... The extra attention includes reading a story with just one kid. Singing extra lullabies alone with another. Since I can not very well leave anyone alone, I just take them up to my room and spend the 15 minutes doing something with only that child. And if there is fighting with the other two while I am there, they both go on time out. This has lessened the fighting and the kids feel like they got special attention from mom.

I hope you can use some of this.

D.

Hello L.:

Hang in there.

I wonder if your daughter's actions are symptomatic in nature. By that, I mean, is there something at school that is bothering her, or at home, or with friends. Kids often pass forward the very conflicts that occur to them (or a close friend) without even putting thought to it.

Also, she's reaching that wonderful hormonal change time and may not know what to do with the conflicting feelings biology is throwing at her.

Have you sat down and spoken to her about her actions? Have you listened to her reasonings for it? It is not appropriate, you already know that...but what is the actual source of her frustrations? Once you understand what the source(s) is/are; then a solution can be planned.

Others have given you some resources on this board. All I can add is that each child is a person. Speak to them, regarldess of age, as a person with all rights and respect. Find out where she is coming from. Set some boundries. Teach her some constructive ways to vent her frustrations.

Good luck. Keep us updated.

L.,
First of all, I sympathize with your situation. But, I also recognize that your daughter's behavior is ruling the household. She needs boundaries. Unless she has been diagnosed with emotional or physical development issues, most children are very aware of the difference between "right and wrong" by the age of 8. You need to make her realize that her abusive behavior will not be tolerated (she's half-way to adulthood, after all). A good resource for this kind of training would be a book by Fay and Cline. Can't remember the exact name of it right now, but it's about Parenting, the Love and Logic Way (or something like that). VERY good advice for your particular situation. It's an easy read with concrete examples for helping you regain your standing as the parent (and the person in charge).

I just finished reading the other responses...and they all have merit. My fear in giving your daughter more attention, is that she may be exibiting attention-seeking behavior. So, in essence, you're rewarding her outbursts. It's a slippery slope, to be sure. I respond this way because of my own experience raising a troubled granddaughter from ages 6 thru 11, who had extremely physical outbursts...which resulted in turning all my previous child rearing knowledge upside down!!

You know the personal dynamics of your household better than any of us who are offering advice. There are some great books and resources (library, family doctor, counseling) if you feel your situation requires it.

Be sure to take care of yourself through all of this. Best wishes.

L. B,

All the other mom's have given you wonderful advice. One-on-one time is very important; especially in a prepubescent young girl.

The only thing I would like to add is that perhaps you could find your daughter an outside activity (ie Children's Theatre Group, age appropriate cheer or dance team, sports league, etc.).

These types of activities will help her learn patience along with other valuable life lessons. An outside activity will give her space and time away from her baby brother and give you a break as well. Should she become involved in an outside activity the plays, recitals or competitions also double as family time. When she's "on stage" all eyes are on her, if even for a moment her light has a chance to shine.

Good Luck!!
CM

You've gotten yourself into a vicious cycle --- I know you want to value your time together as a family and already think there's not enough of this time, but, it's never okay for a child to bully another child. Start immediately to give a timeout to your older child (1 minute for each year of their age). It may take a week or even two, but when she ends up missing SO much time with the rest of the family for being a bully to her sibling, she will come around. She has to know that you MEAN what you say. I don't abide by bullying her to show her what it's like. Two wrongs don't make a right. But once she spends a couple of evenings in almost constant time out, her behavior will change. Then you can start carving out alone time for her. But do NOT reward her with alone time until her unacceptable behavior ends. She is well aware that you don't want to waste family together time disciplining her and is taking full advantage of the fact that you already feel your family time is too limited. Good luck!

HI L., you are not alone, I have 4 little kids (oldest is 6 1/2) and no family help and no friends to help and although we do have means to hire a babysitter if needed, I've found some to be flaky, make it more difficult for me or unavailable. I do tend to get away about 3 or 4 hrs/wk. - usually w/the baby- but sometimes w/no kids- when my husband seems up for it- I'll run out to the gym, etc... I initially tried the mom's group thing, not for babysitting but for fun, and had one good one and one where I felt like they dumped their kids on me and judged me and wouldn't lift a finger to help me. That's the bad news- and I can relate to you!!! So here's the good news!: we are blessed with having children, healthy, and having been able to carry them in our bodies. So many people would give anything for that experience. We are SO SO lucky! I wanted kids so much before I had them, we can never take it for granted!!! One day and soon they will be too old to need us, too old for sibling rivalry- we will be old and these young yrs. will all be over, so I say cherish the amazing luck that you've been given, and when they start going into loud crazy sibling rivalry mode, get out of the house- walk, playground, hike, museum. I don't agree w/the moms who say "you have to have 1 on 1 time w/your daughter..." becaue A. you and I don't have that option and B. this is her bro and this is life and I think some things that can help: She will be fine if you make say 2 days/week her day and her little bro is there, but you do more of what she likes- even give her fake attention if you have to. My 2nd child sometimes get lost in the shuffle, and when I feel that in my gut, and he acts out, I make the next day "his day" with all the kids present, and we do more of what he wants- it's his special day- even if it's something stupid like going to the pharmacy and picking out a pack of gum or lip gloss (not for my son, for your daughter :-)), etc... it's a big deal to them. And obviously if she has an interest, art, music, drama, running, soccer, etc. get her in a class/on a team- and you and your son can go and support her. I've also found that when we're in the right environment at school, soccer team, even playground (vs. the gross judgemental mom's groups :-() it can be fun for all and feel extremely supportive- the right people will automatically jump in- even w/the little things like "oh let me help you get him in his carseat" or "let's hang out at a playground so we can talk and our kids can run around"... Cherish this time, it will be over and we are lucky to be able to have and be with these kids- bc we and they will be older soon and won't need us at all!!!

Hi, L.. Sorry you're having such a hard time. My 6 year old granddaughter does the same thing to my 2 year old granddaughter and my grandson, now 12, does the same to his sister, 6. It does drive you nuts because all you ever hear is whining! Just last night, I had the two girls at the table for an evening snack before bed. I walked out of the room and then turned around and came right back unexpectedly to find that the 6 year old had taken the 2 year olds milk and wouldn't give it to her. the 2 year old had just started to whine when I came back into the room. The 6 year old immediately gave the milk back. when I asked her what she was doing, why she had her cousin's milk, she smiled and said "I was only kidding." I told her that was too bad, because I wasn't and I took her milk and poured it down the drain. I think what we have to do is to show the older one how it feels to be bullied, because that's exactly what they're doing to the younger one. So, I've decided that everything I see the older one do to the younger one, I will do to the older one and then depending on the situation, the older one may be sent to bed to think about her behavior. And I also have started pointing out that if it were her brother doing that same thing to her, she'd be crying and that she needs to treat her cousin the same way she wants her older siblings to treat her. I don't really know what else to do other than to try to show her what it feels like to be on the short end.

You need to take action now. I was the younger sibling, by three years, in the situation you are describing. My mother claims not to remember this going on, because she was chronically depressed and worked a lot. A lot of it happened when we were older (she went to college at 16, and was a bully until the end.) You have to intervene on your son's behalf. Your daughter NEEDS boundaries, she needs anger management skills, and she needs to know that this is unacceptable. She is much bigger and stronger than your son and can really hurt him. Which means you need to learn a whole set of skills to stand up to her. It sounds like she running your household to an extent. Please get counseling for BOTH of you, even if it's basic county support. You can get help from public services, but the sooner the better. Good luck.

I know you already have a lot of great responses but my $.02 advice is this: set a zero tolerance policy on bullying. Any push, verbal threat or disrespectful behaviour is grounds for her going to her room (or you could do the "Magic 1-2-3" technique I have heard of if a punishment each time seems too much work on your end). Try to constantly praise them when they are cooperating or simply co-existing in a peaceful way (i.e. "nice job in giving your brother a turn to watch his TV show"). I have hope that it can turn around!!

All the very best to you!
N.

You HAVE to get alone time with her. At 9 years old maybe it can be even once a week for 3 hours. Call it "Our Special Time," or something similar. Dad will have to take the little one for this time. Go shopping or some similar activity she will like.

This time is VERY hard to get, I understand, but it will probably pay off and create more time for you in the long run. My oldest son was jealous, and I know from experience that sibling rivalry can consume hours out of your life daily with the amount of attention the jealous one requires.

The second thing is: mirror her emotions. When you and she get time away from the 3 year old say something to her like: "Wow, isn't it GREAT to get time away from your little brother, and be alone, just you and me." Contrary to what it feels like, saying something like this will make her like her little brother more, not less.

Find any way you can to get this time with her. It is very important. If I had taken my advice (I didn't know back then), I would have had such an easier and more enjoyable parenting experience.

Kate, below, is right on.

Hi there L.,
I have to tell you, your request just breaks my heart. I guess I don't really know exactly what you're going through, but I can relate a little. I have 4 beautiful girls, from age 7 years to 7 months. I have been dealing with clinical depression for a few years now, sadly without realizing it until just recently. There are days I feel completely overwhelmed by absolutely everything and can barely put one foot in front of the other. My oldest two (7 and 4) currently have difficulty getting along. There actually is a lot of love in our house, but it's just that age I guess. When they start fighting, it is almost unbearable for me because of my state of mind. I said all that to let you know I can empathize with you and your situation. The thing that keeps me going is my church. I know you said you are not religious, but you don't have to be "religious" to go to church. In fact, being religious is not what true Christianity is. Not all churches are made up of loving, helpful, non-judgemental people, but there definitely are churches out there that love and help everyone who walks through their doors. I just want to encourage you to try that route. It may take some time to find the right place for you, but it is so worth it. I'm not even suggesting you need to go with the intent of getting "religious". I just truly believe there is no better place to find love, help and support than a good church. Find one with a good youth program your daughter can become involved in. I believe it really could change her behaviour and will give you the strength you need to make it through this desperate time in your life. Best of all, it's FREE! I don't know where you live, but if you're anywhere near Bakersfield, let me know. Our church is full of wonderful, loving women who would be able to help you in any way possible. And what have you got to lose? It sounds like you've tried everything else...why not give God a shot? I will be praying for you and your family. That may not sound like much and may sound trite, but I believe in prayer, and I truly will be praying for you. God sees you in your desperation and wants so badly to help you, you just have to take that first step. God bless, L., and at least think about it.

Take a look at HOW TO TALK SO KIDS WILL LISTEN AND LISTEN SO KIDS WILL TALK and SIBLINGS WITHOUT RIVALRY, both by Adele Faber. Her focus is on listening to the emotions behind the behavior, and responding to that while also establishing limits for the behavior ("It's really frustrating when your brother tears your book, but you canno hit him"). Both of them are available through Santa Clara County Library.
You say that she picks on him, but the younger one may actually be an instigator. (My two-year-old knew just which buttons to push to send her 6-year-old brother into a tizzy, and my sister acknowledges that she could get our two brothers, who were older than her, to "pick on her" and get into trouble when she was really at fault.) Younger children can be very good manipulators. Faber's books can help you understand some of the dynamics that are going on.
Good luck!

Can you take one kid out with you whenever you leave the room...? Or,

When you are with the kids, hold one tightly at a time and have some intimate time, hugging him or her, then do the same equally with the other...

This is using the power of Touch to convey a physical closeness and love in a quiet and calm manner, which if successful, will be a break from frustration, screaming or jealousy, hopefully...

I got this idea from a psychologist friend some years ago, who brought her adopted daughters to a 'Touch' clinic which is beneficial somehow (I forgot her theory of this), but you can check that out through Internet search if you have time (?) But try it to see if it works for you...

Good luck and best wishes!

My kids are 5 years apart and while in many ways I feel it is a great split (rather than having one right after the other), there are certainly challenges. It can be difficult to explain to the oldest that he is a role model for his younger brother. We have regular discussions about how it doesn't make sense to treat the people we love most in the world with less respect than we would a total stranger. One thing that helped in our family is something called "That's the ticket". You can order it online. Unlike other behavior modification tools I feel that this one teaches more about responsibilty and the idea that nothing is for free and our behavior dictates what we should receive. The great thing about it is that it can be tailored to each age group. The basic idea is that you have a list of behaviors that are things you have to repeat constantly like: No arguing, using respectful language, pick up your clothes off the bathroom floor and put them in the hamper, treat each other's bodies with respect etc. When they do those things they earn tickets, when they don't they lose the same amount of tickets. The tickets are used to purchase anything they want (10 tickets for an hour of TV or video games, 30 tickets for some one on one time with mom, 400 tickets for a trip to Marine World etc.) They learn that in order to get the things they want, they have to use respectful behavior and help out around the house. There are opportunities for them to read an extra chapter in a book and talk to you about it to get extra tickets or write a report on their behavior to get extra tickets, or create a plan to save tickets for a "big" item. If they don't have enough tickets they can't get what they want. This system does take consistency and it is great if the husband or partner can be on board as well so they don't inadvertently sabatoge the idea behind the game. They love getting their tickets and I've had kids come over to stay the night with my oldest son who want to play the game as well. I have passed it on to a few of their parents and now they have more than one household that uses it so they buy in more. It all boils down to the fact that they get to be part of the family in a bigger way (coming up with some ideas for the prizes) and their sense of pride when they can save and use their tickets is a great thing. When they are consistently doing what you want you can remove a topic from the board and create new ones. It grows with them!

In our house it has helped reduce the tension, screaming and frustration for all of us. You can look it up online and check it out. It is concrete and if you can stick with it, well worth the initial effort (3 - 6 months of playing with it before it is really solid and seems like less work).

Hope that helps.
M.