What are some 'beyond the basics' things that are in your parenting plan, that you wish we're in your parenting plan, or that have become problematic because they are in it or aren't?
Yes... We're getting down to the nitty gritty. Ugh.
For anyone just joining our irregularly scheduled broadcast... This is a VERY contentious divorce... So as many things need to be nailed down as possible.
ETA: Since it's come up a couple times: A Parenting Plan is otherwise known as Custody Arrangement... it doesn't just cover who has the kids when but also things like major decision making, day to day decision making, travel, vacations, education, medical, religion, contact between child and parent they're not curently living with, who claims the child on their taxes, who is allowed to do what when, etc. These are decisions you make on your own when married, that when divorced/separated cause HUGE problems, unless you just so happen to agree on everything (rare, heck that's even rare in a marriage, but it's reeeeally rare in divorce. So they're spelled out to greater or lesser degree. Lesser when parents can generally get along, greater when the divorce is ugly. Just as an example; I had to have our neighborhood school listed, because in addition to no longer being allowed to homeschool... my ex wanted to send our son to an underperforming school in the ghetto over an hour away from either of us and have me drive both ways on all days. Obviously, not for our son's benefit, but to create more problems for me / him. So we had to fight in court not only about homeschooling, but also about the location of the durn school he would attend. A parenting plan, to SOME extent nixes these court battles. The problems come in "grey" areas. Like "joint decision" on education, meant we had to go to court becuase he wouldn't agree to either homeschooling or schooling at our neighborhood schoo or the private school we both liked... but it HAD to be this crappy school in the worst neighborhood. <Rolls eyes> So the parenting plan would do squat in that kind of argument, but it makes it illegal for him to just take our son and head off to Timbuktu, or show up an hour late to pickup and then claim I'm kidnapping our son / custodial interferance when HE was late (and vice versa). It's "break it down barney style" as far as you have to, to try and keep things out of court as much as possible until the kids are 18).
I REALLY like the 'he who brings it up and loses' pays clause a couple of you have brought up!!! I'm already over 20k in debt in this divorce and we haven't even GOTTEN to mediation yet! It took 5 months just to get "emergency temporary orders" in place (usually happens in 2 weeks) because of his shenanigans.
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Some things that are already on the radar:
- ADHD meds
- College tuition
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Ha. Here's a couple i wouldnt have thought of. Of course they don't really apply NOW. A will/probate attorney just emailed me about these clauses designed to protect children of 'first' marriages when their parent dies and everything goes to the widow/widower.
(paraphrasing)
- Each parent is required to maintain life insurance to x amount with child(ren) as sole beneficiary until child is 24 (other life insurance for new spouse and subsequent children to be held seperately)
- Childs potion of the estate of deceased parent to be paid to the child at the time of parents death (in trust managed by xxx law firm if still a minor), shall not be less than 1/6th of the estate, and shall not revert to spouse and spouses will.
My husband regrets not putting any limits as to how far the other parent can move the child away. His daughter was moved away at the age of 6 and it broke his heart.
PLAN? Is this for divorced parents only, or is every parent supposed to have one?... I'm confused. I've been married over 10 years, have 4 kids... yet I'm confused. We have no "parenting plan", and everything seems OK and we work together well, etc... can someone explain more?
R., I may just message you my cell phone so you can call me. Seriously, we have paid over 25k in court hearings with my husbands ex. We have a VERY detailed parenting plan after many issues that have come up. And their daughter is permanently disabled, which adds some other layers. Plus, I have 2 kids with an ex also so I have experienced double the fun. So, if you want to chat, give me a call and I will give you some tips you can jot down...oh, and you need to do it right the first time as its VERY difficult to make changes unless something VERY major happens. Good luck!
I am wishing I had thought my custody/support agreement out further 14 years ago. Sigh
I def would have spelled out ancillary items like school clothing, extracurricular activities, summer camps, high school fees (rings, band, etc.) and college support.
I would have spelled out orthodontia - not to X dollars but to 50% of all costs. Or calculated as a % based on income...especially if he out earns you.
R., the nitty gritty is ugh, but means you are getting closer to be done.
Hugs!!!
Our "plan" is amazingly simple, and it works. I DO everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) and he PAYS for everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING).
This works for us since I have no money and he has no desire to parent.
We didn't really have an official "plan" since we didn't go to court.
I thought for SURE we would have to go to court.
But at our first (and only) settlement meeting with our annoying attorneys, the most amazing thing happened. We both compromised. Not AGREED, exactly, but COMPROMISED.
Perhaps this will happen to you, too?
:)
Damn, was their SUPPOSED to be a plan?
I haven't been through this personally, but I think people should include a restriction on 2 things:
- leaving your kids with a sitter or family member/friend more than 20% during visitations. At least you should have the first right to step in before he puts the kids with someone else. I know people who have visitation with their kids but then they go on work trips and leave the poor kids with their new girlfriend instead of at home with mom. CRAZY??
- a time limit on how long the other party should have to date before your kids meet them and after they meet them, no more than 8 hours per week together with the kids and no sleepovers until married
good luck!
Holidays...how you are going to do those and make sure you check and list the ones you want in there.
Religion/Church. My brother's ex picks some crazy churches most of which are out of her state. So what he had put in his was that she could go out of state for church events once a year but it couldn't be on his time and he had to have advance notice and in writing.
School expenses this can include school pictures,supplies,field trips, donations, fees, yearbooks, class rings, graduation fees and supplies.
Also the right that during his time you can call and talk to the kids at least once during the weekends at a reasonable time. If he has the kids more than two days then calls at reasonable times and reasonable amounts such as every other day. Also along that line of thought the kids should have free access to a phone in order to call you at any time they feel. If you have to do a cell phone then the cost should either be split or it figured out who should foot that bill.
Clothing...he should supply his own clothes for the kids at his residence and the same for you. This includes shoes, coats, and so on. They should be properly fitting clothes as well. Sounds odd but trust me I can't tell you how many sets of clothes my nephew lost at his mother's house because she refused to return them and refused to buy clothes for him. What clothes she did send him home in were so small it was cutting off circulation. I'm not kidding on that..I took pictures to prove that.
Discipline, what both can and can't do: ie spanking, grounding, time outs etc. This should also include a part that addresses future partners for both sides.
On the line of future partners it should state that no overnights with opposite sex who are not related to the children for a set amount of time. This avoids the parade of sexual partners that might come into the picture.
The biggest thing my ex insisted on and I thought why not, was the right of first refusal. For the first couple years every time he found out I was going out he would grill me as to how long...blah blah blah
Oh the flip side I had great delight when he tried to hit me up for childcare costs while I was in Europe with our eldest. Yeah you can't exercise it and still expect to be paid for it.
Other than that I can't think of a thing that would have been covered by a decree.
I am not sure if this is standard or my attorney had his number by the time it was drawn up but there is a bit that if you file for a change or that the other person is violating something and lose you pay the other person's legal fees. That one has saved me a lot of headaches. In other words you cannot drag the other party to court for sport or you are the only one out money.
We have college in ours but here is the rub, he can antagonize the child into not going and the court sees it as the child giving up their right.
Not sure which direction this will go but always look at anything with the eye, how can he use this against me? Swear to god, nothing was more shocking than how they can twist simple language into a form of torture. So when you look at something like food in the house expect that you will be drug to court to prove you have the food pyramid in your house.
Troy wanted me to clarify that last paragraph, any power you take for yourself you are giving to him. Nothing put in that decree will be one way. The courts do not grant things like that.
We added that in the case of the death of either parent, immediate family members xyz could utilize current visitation for the non-custodial parent based on the decree (ie my sister could pay 1/2 the travel for the christmases and summer vacations that were *his* in the decree since I have full custody).
I also put in there that if he refused visitation while alive (before I killed him ....lol) that his immediate family could use the vacation (same as above - 1/2 the travel) etc.
I felt that was important so I knew that if I died he couldn't keep her from seeing my mom or sister. Now that she's older I don't think he COULD since she knows their phone #s, but I wanted the safeguard just in case.
I'll add more later... I'm doing a quickie as I make dinner.....
Oi!
Private me...
But one of the issues has become an issue (as each kiddo has become 'driving' age) is car insurance...and who PAYS for the behind the wheel etc...
And then...the KILLER...if (even though behind in support payments) GIFTS a car for the new driver...
College 'payment' is tricky...as most college funds do not allow for books...and incidental expenses (READ food...sheets...towels...all the stuff you do not generally think of when going off to college...)
My list goes on...the older my kiddos get.
AND I will say...that my ex's cost for 'fighting' me...would have paid years of tuition for his kiddos.
I thought I had 'dotted my *I*'s...and crossed my 'T's'...
Yet I still find myself in court yearly.
I send cyber (((HUGS)))
and strength.
Best Luck!
michele/cat
who is responsible for transporting child to and from visitation or shared custody, esp if someone moves farther away.
Can you get it in writing that the other parent should have food in their kitchen when children stay with them? I would have like that.
Medical bills after child turns 18? My college age daughter needs wisdom teeth extraction and the oral surgeon says Over 5,000$ !!!
Birthday time for parents. Make sure that if you get time on your bday with your kids when theyre at your exs home, you have it stated that you drop them off and pick up. On his bday he drops off and picks up not you doing one way,the same with Mothers/Fathers day. It has become a real problem in my home. Also for summer holidays if you plan on camping or trips make sure it says from FRi-Mon not just Mem day or Labor Day or 4th of July otherwise you can't go anywhere else. If you think things will go smooth because they are written you could be wrong. My ex gets everything wrong and causes problems because he can't figure out. It is so irritating. If you want the kids to stay in a specific school district add that. That way he can't switch them on his own later if one of them decides to live with him unless you go to mediation over it. Good luck!
We we found out we were pregnant with our first child my husband and I sat down and had a very long discussion. Went out to eat at 6 and didn't leave until close to midnight. We are planners and while we were preventing pregnancy my daughter wasn't what I would call a planned pregnancy. Wasn't a real surprise either but we wanted to be prepared. I think we talked about everything. We hashed out wills, asset distribution, custody arrangements. It was a very serious conversation and I think we made some of the waiters nervous with out discussion. We just didn't want anything to be in question. We even included the family pets (3 cats). I love my husband and after 12 year of being together and 2 kids I couldn't imagine my life without him but we both agreed to look at the situation as if it were the worst possible. It is now filed with a lawyer and we update it every few years so nothing falls through the cracks. It is not a fun topic and hard to imagine.
-Ask to be called first when he needs a babysitter (no guarantee that he'll
do it but at least it's in writing. In my exp, don't do it if you think it will
piss him off.)
-Ask your lawyer about being the primary parent (forget what it's called,
custodial? primary?)
-outline max vacation time for each parent (ex. 1 week or 2 weeks etc)
So sorry you are going through this. Hang in there.
The most important thing in my husband's PP was a date in which the summer schedule dates from the ex wife were to be given to him and the fate in which the summer schedule was to be determined by.
Example: The mother has to have her needed summer dates to The Father by May 15th and the summer schedule to be determined by May 25th.
We needed this b/c the ex-whiff was always trying to manipulate and interrupt any plans we were trying to make for our summer vacations. Sucks when one parent has anger towards the other and does things on purpose to be spiteful!
We also had a provision put in that the kids we're allowed to play a sport each year and that each parent HAD to get kids to practices and games when it was that patents visitation time. *This was added after many a year when we would pay for the lids to play and then she would have 'something come up' and never take the kids to practice/games!
Good luck woman!
The thing about college is that I think each parent should pay as they can and it should not be dictated that they MUST. Years from now, what if you get laid off or have a kid with a serious illness and can't afford what was set up in the decree? That DH can pay anything is great - and what he can't cover the kid needs to figure out with their mom or loans or whatever.
Parents covering 50% medical bills by submitting receipts to the other party within 30 days of the event and having 30-60 days to pay back is another.
Both parents (assuming that both are paying) need their own plans to pay their portion of orthodontia directly. All large bills (like this or oral surgery) should be discussed with both parties before treatment/billing.
Anything that can be paid to the provider directly should.
Permission to take kids out of state. In advance. In writing.
Permission to enroll child in activities in advance in writing, if it interferes with the other parent's time or requires funds from the other parent (SD took riding lessons on our time only and we paid for it and BM paid us back what she chose to, but we did not enroll SD in weekend classes b/c it would interfere with BM's schedule).
Nothing will be perfect. Good luck.
I am sorry you are going through this! My sister is in the same boat. I just wish parents could work together for the sake of your children...you hubby sounds like a real gem! (my sis's soon to be ex is a gem, too). Wouldn't it have been nice to put the 20k into a college fund?? I hope you get through this soon...good luck:)
Extra curricular activities - something like each parent is responsible for up to x amount of $$ per month for extra curricular activities. No biggie when I got divorced and my daughter was 2 - but the past couple years (she's almost 10 now) those extra activities really eat up any child support I receive. And he's not willing to help out - he thinks the child support should cover it, even though it was calculated years ago. I wish I would have had that put in there. I also agree with deciding who will bring the child to and from visitation. It wasn't a big deal when we first divorced because he lived 5 min away. But a couple of years ago, he moved about 30 minutes away. Now, it's an issue sometimes.
OH - we have the wording that we each have to have a certain amount for life insurance, and I do - BUT I can almost gaurantee you that he has never had it. I'd have to take him back to court and have him show proof, which is so much trouble I haven't done it.
From one of my best girlfriends:
All proposed changes to parenting plan must first be negotiated in mediation. (This is a nice stop when dealing with a crazy ex because, by court law, they can't begin a petition without first entering mediation. This cuts down on legal fees and BS.)
From our (third party) parenting plan:
- Neither parent shall speak ill of the other to or around the child. (I can't remember the exact wording, and this might be pretty standard, but I liked it).
- Who claims kiddo on taxes.
- Between the hours of X-Y on the days X-Y, parents shall be able to contact child via telephone. Parents are required to pass on messages and to not restrict telephone contact in between these hours.
From my clients:
In order to maintain visitations, parent/s will give UAs and are required to complete a DV treatment program *successfully* / parenting class / parenting through divorce class / drug and alcohol treatment / etc.
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I kind of doubt any of this will be helpful but, meh, I'm going through our first draft of petition as we speak, so I thought I'd put out a shout out. If you have the time and energy (hah hah, that's a funny idea isn't it) I would love to see what you came up with.
I guess I'm joining this broadcast very late. I'm not sure what you're asking. I will say I have things I wished I had done all along -- does that count? The best advice I ever got was start as you mean to go -- always do things as you want them done in the future -- if you want your kids to drink water, wear shoes easily, brush teeth easily, start those things early, before they're needed, and make it a habit right away. But somehow, I don't think this is what you meant...
