One's Obligations to Other Parents and Their Kids

Unless they are paying my house payment, I have no obligation to them. If I agreed to babysit, that would be one thing - I created an obligation and would fulfill it even if my child spent the afternoon in their room while the other child was there. But short of that, I'm not obligated to provide entertainment for anyone's child.

I think I'd be embarrassed that the only way I could get my kid to behave was cancel plans somewhat last minute and ruin someone else's day too - especially by the time they were school aged.

ETA: I was being a bit snide and understand some children are just born more difficult. But just like children are different, parents are too. Doesn't make me a bad parent if I don't cancel play dates because I feel obligated to fulfill a commitment. I could argue cancelling also teaches a child they can bail on people and not worry about their feelings and plans.

I think it is terribly inconsiderate to cancel plans at the last minute even if a child is misbehaving. I also believe it punishes the other child that has done nothing wrong and messes up the other family's plans.

I really can only think of a few times where I actually needed to punish my kids. By the time they were school aged they knew I meant what I said and usually just a look would get them to comply. However, if I was looking for a punishment, it would involve something that would benefit me...ie. Clean the bathroom, mop the floor, dust the tables while thinking about how they could do things differently next time so they weren't forced to clean. Usually though, just one threat of cleaning made them change the undesirable behavior.

We have a set of twins who live in our neighborhood who are friends with my dd. The other mother rules "by the book" and follows through with her threats. We were picking the other girls up to go somewhere and they weren't home yet from piano lessons. So we already had to wait 15 minutes (they didn't give us an accurate time for pick up). Then they pull in the drive way and the mom says, "Sue has to go upstairs and make her bed before they leave"....so we waited longer. I thought it was incredibly rude and I would never do that to someone who had already been waiting. The mom could have disciplined in a different way. She punished us more than her kid.

I appreciate it when parents discipline their children. It makes them a pleasure to be around when they come to my house. I would have no problem getting that phone call. We would just ask another kid to come over.

I have no obligations to other families and their kids.
Like you, it's my JOB to teach my kids not to act like entitled a$$___s. I would actually be a little miffed if someone who is supposed to be my friend would question my parenting. My job isn't to make sure everyone else is happy and content...my job is to raise some good kids! And part of that is letting them learn that their actions have consequences, be them positive or negative.

This is how my son felt about this kind of thing. My son used to get invited over to a neighbor boy's house. The parents seemed to like my son just fine and were happy they were friends.

But every few visits, my son would come back home after about half an hour. I'd be surprised to see him. He'd tell me the dad had noticed his friend hadn't done a chore or wasn't being nice to his brother, and send my son home.

After a while, my son lost interest. He would rather play with his other friends.

The father actually took offense to my son not being interested any more. He tried to explain his parenting to me and I just said I wasn't interested. That's their business. If it works for them, fine. But it didn't work for my son.

With younger kids, if I was involved in the planning, we did it on the day and only got in touch if our kids were up for it and things were good. So we tended to avoid all this. But I've always stressed to my kids that We don't get to negatively impact other people. If we do, don't expect them to want to be friends for long. So mine would likely be disciplined some other way over say, taking an invitation back that we've already extended.

I get in some situations it might be the only thing to do. But we're big on honoring our commitments. Not because I feel I owe another family or their kid so much - but because we do as adults, so I start when they're young.

ETA: I agree Doris - that was just mean. I get it's not the same situation really - but that's the closest thing I could relate to.

The only other thing I could think of is when we have plans as a family to go to the beach for example, and one of our kids is misbehaving. Sometimes I can't stay home with that kid for him to miss out. It is a great lesson and we have done that if I can, and it's very effective.

But if I couldn't stay home - I'm not going to penalize the rest of them. That wouldn't be fair on the rest of the kids. So - in that case, the kid comes along - but has to make up for it in some other way.

I try not to cancel things like that last minute because it not only punishes the other child, but it punishes the other parent who may have made plans during that time. I will usually find a different way to punish my child when needed rather then to inconvenience someone else.

I would consider myself to be obligated if I was doing something to help another parent who was in a bind. For example, if a friend asks if I can give her child (on the same team as mine) a ride to the game because she has to run a different direction with her other child and I say yes, I provide that ride no matter what else happens. If a friend asks if her child can come over to play because she has a 2 hour gap between when she has to leave for work, and when her husband comes home and I say yes, the child comes over no matter what.

But if it's a for-fun play date, that is totally different. That is a privilege my child earned (and can lose), not an obligation.

I wouldn't cancel having a friend over, or going to a friend's house, as a punishment for say, doing bad in school. Actually I wouldn't cancel as a punishment for anything.

Not that it actually happened but if my kid was acting like an out of control brat I wouldn't consider canceling plans a punishment at all. Not sure if that makes sense but if you can't act like a human you shouldn't be around other humans. You are not being punished for your behavior, you just can't behave that way around friends.

I think there is room for balance. One of my kids can be an intractable monster of a child. This is a trait that his friends and their parents are well aware of due to the frequency with which he loses the privilege of socializing. However, if he's on thin ice and something is planned in advance, I'll be upfront and let them know: "J would love to join you this weekend to go out on the biking outing but you should know that due to some tough behavior he has to earn the privilege of going and right now he's not really on track. Hopefully this motivates him to turn things around but I'll let you know by [whenever they need to know] if he doesn't." Which will usually result in some peer pressure from the friend to do whatever it is that he needs to do (complete and turn in homework, study for the big test, work in his project, get to school on time or stop hitting his brother, etc.). Sometimes this works, and sometimes he doesn't change his behavior and misses out, but it's with enough notice that the inviting friend can invite someone else or come up with a plan B. It's easier to cancel plans if there is a group of kids involved and my child not going doesn't meant he outing or gathering isn't canceled completely, or if it's just casual hanging out with the kid he sees almost every day.

So pleasing friends and their parents isn't the be all end all, but I do try to be courteous and accommodating and not foul up people's plans.

I feel I need to honour my obligations. If I have made plans with someone I will do my best to keep the plans. If my child is misbehaving I will try to find a suitable punishment that doesn't interfere with the playdate. The only times I would consider using the playdate as punishment is if there was not another suitable punishment or if my child's behaviour would likely ruin the playdate. I find socialization and exercise to be important, especially for children with behaviour issues. (Just like recess, never keep a kid in for recess because of behaviour.) I would prefer to keep the playdate, but take away screen time or allowance or add extra chores. Now, if the behaviour was occurring during the playdate then I would not have an issue with bringing the playdate to an end.

Well, I think I made my point of view pretty clear in my post you're piggybacking off of. A playdate is not a break for mom. It's a way of helping children learn how to socialize. If a kid is misbehaving, they shouldn't be going on a playdate anyway. That's not fair to the other mother. And if my kid's being awful, they didn't get to have the privilege of having another kid come to the house.

I'm not obligated to the other parent. That's just the way it is.

Now, if a parent asked me to babysit with one of her children so that she could go to the doctor, that was different. If they needed help and I'm watching their child because they need help, I would not cancel.

For a regular playdate, I always told the parent that if things went south in the playdate, I'd be bringing her child home early, or calling the mom to come pick the child up, whichever one we had picked. And I'd tell the mom to do the same if my kid was going to her house. That included if my kid or her kid started inappropriate behavior, by they way.

I also told the child the house rules in front of the mom the first time. I'd say in front of the mom that if the child couldn't go by the rules, he'd have to go home. I made things really clear.

What Margie mentions below, her son's friend's father busting his son for small infractions in the middle of the playdate like not having done a chore? That's just mean. He could have required his son to do the chore earlier in the day. That's not a play date "going south". That's just being authoritarian and looking for an excuse to lord over his son.

If it's something where there's an expense involved, such as a birthday party or other activity another parent has paid for in advance, I wouldn't back out. However, for a playdate, you bet I'd back out. I fully support it when others have cancelled due to a child's bad behavior. In fact, one time, our daughter was sent home from a sleepover because her and her best friend wouldn't listen to the dad and misbehaved. Not one bit of issue driving out there to pick her up late a night.

As a parent it's up to me to correct my child s behavior.
If he's misbehaving - there will be consequences and the behavior will not be rewarded.
That being said - there's a fine line and it's hard to know where it is all the time.
IF we rsvp'd that he'd go to a party - then he'd probably go and his consequence for acting up would be something else.
A play date is less formal and can more easily be cancelled.
Also you need to make the punishment fit the crime.
Not cleaning the dishes is one thing - doing something seriously bad that lands him in Juvenal detention is something else.
If the kids in police custody - yeah, no kidding he's not going to any party for probably a long time.
If you're going to ground the kid - it's got to be finite (a week or two is probably sufficient) and they need to be able to earn their way back into your good graces.
If you threaten a punishment, you don't say it over and over again - you bring the hammer down and that's it.
Otherwise you're just teaching your kid to ignore you and laugh at you - he knows you don't mean what you say.
Really - parents train up their own monsters and then moan how bad things have become - and then get offended at any HINT that the PARENTS helped create this situation to begin with.
Still, kids don't come with manuals and some kids are definitely much more difficult than others.
My duty to raise my child to become the best human being he can be out weighs obligations to friends and their parents.

My children don't generally engage in play dates but I couldn't see myself canceling one on behalf of my child misbehaving. That would be a rude inconvenience to others. I would find another way to discipline my children. The disciplinary measure would be in a way where it didn't directly impact others in a negative way. I simply believe that good should be rewarded and bad should be corrected. An example would be where there are a few sour apples in class causing disruption, and rather those children be written up or receive phone calls home, the teacher punishes the entire class by taking away outdoor playtime, or other fun activities. What exactly would the behaved children learn in this scenario?

You're kind of implying the only way to punish a child is to cancel playdates... And you're kind of implying that people who don't cancel playdates have children who consistently misbehave. I'm sure that's not your intention but it comes across like that to me. And staying and playing at school after school sounds much more casual than a prearranged playdate at someone's house. There is one girl we know who consistently misbehaves and I think her mother has cancelled once or twice and I understood bc this child is tough. And I think it happened when I was hosting. So there's not a black and white answer to this in my opinion. As I said in my reply, some of it depends on the relationship with the family too. I also don't think this mother was outraged at the cancelling - just questioning if it kind of punishes the other family too and end of day, it kind of did. Some people think of their impact on others and some don't. I would think of the impact on the other family and this mother would too. That's wrong? I would find another punishment most likely or inquire how big a deal it was to cancel. Somehow I've done this and have very well behaved children. They're not entitled jerks per all the teachers they've ever had and friends' parents. In this case, the boy also wasn't causing problems for other kids or teachers. Maybe to better answer your question, my level of obligation to other parents varies and in turn, my feeling what their obligation should be to me. Factors are frequency of playdates, who usually hosts, is the other family a giver or taker, do the parents really try to discipline but he/she is a really difficult child so they run out of options?...

I guess I have never used play dates as either a reward or punishment. In fact I don't really get what misbehaving in school would have to do with having a play date. I do think it is rude to cancel plans involving other people and wouldn't do it unless my child would be completely incapable of behaving at the actual play date itself. Which I find difficult to imagine for a child older than say 3 or 4. We didn't do play dates at that age.

I don't see how cancelling a play date would be any less rude than not allowing your child to attend a sports function (the whole team is inconvenienced and might be forced to forfeit) or to skip a birthday party (if more than one kid had to skip the birthday child might be very hurt and no I don't think that sort of disappointment is a 'learning opportunity' for the birthday child).

I find it hard to believe that by the time one has a school age child one doesn't have a few more tools in the toolbox. If I had a child that really was unpredictable enough I needed to cancel regularly, I would be sure to mention this to the parents I was making plans with. I would also expect not to be invited for many play dates and while that might be sad for my child, I would certainly see that the other parent might prefer to schedule with someone more reliable.

Hard to say really. I never faced that with my kids. They were well behaved. Probably b/c in other situations they knew that if they weren't well behaved, there were consequences that they didn't like. They were good kids.

But, as for being on the "receiving end" of a situation like that, if someone else's kid misbehaved and their parent cancelled a play date with my child as a result, I would use it as a learning opportunity for my child. "I guess so and so will have to learn ____. Too bad he was misbehaving and lost the opportunity to play together with you." Or, "gee, I'm sorry you are disappointed that so/so can't come over, but he was misbehaving, and there must be consequences." Or whatever. No need to make the kid into a "problem" kid, but facts are facts. They did something they shouldn't (or didn't do something they should have) and the result is something they don't like. And it doesn't affect only them. That's how the real world works. Duh.

It's not the obligation to the other parent. It's that some parents are just mean and too hard on their kids. Let's say I have to pick up a friend's child from school and my child is looking forward to the playdate but is acting out. I will pick up the child as previously promised, feed them a snack, let them play then talk to my kiddos afterwards saying that I wasn't going to go back on my
previously stated plans (the pick up & playdate) but now that we're home I will explain to them that I did not like their behavior "before" the playdate so now that the playdate is over they will have to skip one of their favorite activities (cartoons) for a couple of hours. Just so they see the consequence. I have
never had anyone cancel a playdate as a consequence but I have had them tell me about it & that their child was going to miss a later activity. I believe in
giving kids the chance to correct their behavior "I'm tell you right now stop doing that or we will leave the park". They always correct their behavior. I have had to say it twice but again....the behavior is corrected. Give kids a chance & they can surprise you. Especially as they get older. You've taught them well & modeled good behavior. They can surprise you. Again, it's not about "my level of obligation to other families & their kids". It's about being fair and making sure my expectations of their behavior is clear. I've had several times my youngest has said "oh I didn't know that's what you meant" or "I didn't understand that's what you wanted me to do". The take away is "Am I clear in my directions and expectations?". I make sure to give directives directly to the kids not just "in passing as I'm walking away from them going upstairs" or as I'm walking outside to put things in the van", etc.

If someone canceled their kid's plan with my kid because their kid was misbehaving, I was totally cool with it.

I don't think play dates have anything to do with bad behavior in another situation. One isn't because or influenced by the other.

For instance. Seeing kids acting out after school. Okay, what if that child's teacher was a bear all day and rode the kids hard and was obnoxious and rude? This kid might have had that meltdown as soon as he saw his mom, his safe person. Obviously the kid needed down time but if they had a play date scheduled I'd probably let them go so they could blow off some steam and get some activity going to help them feel better.

If the kid just got bullied by someone and was reacting to that...maybe that's why some random kid was acting out.

If a play date is scheduled and they have something going on I don't automatically think take away play date. If they're mad because they have to turn off the TV to do the litter box then they lose TV, not a play date. If they won't eat what I cook for dinner they lose dessert, not play date.

So my mind doesn't go to "take away playdate" for punishment. It goes to what the situation is and what the natural consequence is.

I would ask the mom if her son is better or okay. He might have had a meltdown due to giving up something so he could go to your house. It might be a natural consequence that you can understand if you just ask.

I'd say that your son can understand that their plans changed and he'll get to come over another time.

if my kid can't behave then its time to go. for its one two three strikes and your out. and we leave. i do not tolerate my child acting up. often if they are really messing up the other parent will feel relief that you leave, then they don't have to feel uncomfortable with the misbahavior.
if i am the only parent and the other parent is relying on me for babysitting their child then i will use redirection if possible and if i have to discipline i will do a timeout and notify mom as soon as she returns that i had to give a timeout for wxyz behavior.

My only obligation is communication. Tell them that what your child said was not approves by you. Have a conversation with parents and kids about my boundaries, expectations. When my daughter was a child and when my grandaughter was young mom's nearly always called me to be sure I had given my permission. We all were comfortable with saying no.