Need Advice - Rocklin,CA

Gee whiz Doris. Why do you take everything to the principal? The principal hired the dance teachers because of their expertise. If she takes that away from them, she might as well not have them come teach a routine!

There are lines. SOMEONE has to be on the back line! What other method would they employ?

I'm a Dance Teacher and my principal tried to tell me who to have in the troupe. I transferred to a different school that allowed me to audition dancers and not micromanage me.

Not everyone can be in the front row, be first, be best, etc at everything.
The only thing I'd say to the teacher is she might be a bit more diplomatic about it - your girl feels totally rejected although there's nothing wrong with not being in the front row.

Sometimes it's not even about being the best.
When I was in kindergarten our class did a little play about Goldilocks and the Three Bears.
I was PERFECT as Goldilocks!
I knew the lines, I spoke up, I was confident in the role!
But I didn't get the part.
They gave it to Shelly - who was shy, soft spoken - certainly not as good as I was!
I got the Mama Bear part.
And I was heartbroken - I totally sobbed.
But I played the part I was given and did very well.

The thing was - they gave the part to Shelly BECAUSE she was shy.
They thought it would help her confidence.
(Plus she was blond and I wasn't.)
And I suppose it did a bit.
But as a kindergartener I didn't understand that it wasn't all about selecting the best person.

In a broad sense this applies:
There are no small parts - there are only small actors.

It means no part is beneath you - what ever part you have, no matter how small, you just have to play it to the best of your ability and be the very best butler/maid/sidekick/supporting actor/etc you can be.
Arthur Treacher built his entire career on it.

It applies to life as well.

Why on earth is this effecting your daughter? It is a team/group performance that you aren't paying a dime for in the first place. Perhaps if you did have to pay you would actually understand that if the group looks bad so does your daughter regardless of where she stands. They are all different shapes, height, etc, they are placed in a manner that makes the overall performance look good. Your daughter's ego doesn't factor in.

After reading your what happened, you are projecting! You think they put her on a pedestal so you are looking for ways it is done. Fact is they would have put your daughter where she is at now from the beginning if that were the case. It is a simple matter of the group worked better changed around. Do your daughter a favor and stop encouraging her to be a victim when nothing actually happened.

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Oh wow, seriously? Last I checked Rosa Park's mommy didn't yell at the mean bus driver. Amelia Earhart's mom didn't make the mean men let her fly a plane. I haven't a clue why you listed Sally Ride. She was welcomed into the space program and would have continued had the shuttle not blown up!

What you seem to want to believe is that you can bully people into being the world you want your child to live in. That isn't possible. More so you are totally handicapping your child. There is one thing that any successful woman has in common, someone told them they couldn't and THEY! proved them wrong, not their mommy!

Well my daughter IS a competitive dancer and this happens all the time. My daughter is tall and doesn't do the gymnastic type flips that the tiny girls can do. So often times she does not spend the majority of the time in the front. It's life. Your daughter should not expect to always be in the front, as hard of a lesson as it is to learn.

My problem comes in if the teachers are actually saying this girl is better. If it's not a competition piece and not a dance school, I don't see the need for the change, but I'm not there. Maybe it does look better with the new arrangement.

The biggest thing I tell my daughter, and point out to her when we are watching other routines, is that it takes the whole group to make something look good. If they wanted only one kid to shine, they would do a solo. So even the kids in the back make a big statement in the whole performance.

I think it's a teaching moment for your daughter and a hard lesson to learn, but better to learn it now than to grow up thinking she always gets to shine. Honestly, the kids that are usually in the front of my daughters group aren't in the front this year, and I have heard their parents make comments. They thought their kids were the best just because they were in the front, and that's simply not true. Don't make a big deal about it other than to tell her you love her and you are excited to see her perform, no matter where she is in the routine.
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Added: Just after reading some other responses....the girls in the front are definitely NOT the best of the group. I've seen this in competition for the last 5 years. Sometimes they are, and sometimes it's just the certain piece - their look fits the role, or they do the hardest move right, or they can get there first. There are so many reasons dancers go where they go. So your daughter wasn't necessarily moved because she is bad at dance, it's just better for the visual appeal for her to be in the back - and that's NOT a bad thing.

I would not involve the teachers in this because this is life. Maybe you think your daughter was moved due to her ability but that may not be the case.

Everyone can't be on front row and those who are, must be on que and get things right. It is a group participation and your daughter needs to know that she will not always have a top spot. You have to place the dancers in a way that everyone can be seen.

My daughter was not in dance but in cheer and that works in a similar way. When she was Captain, she tried to make sure everyone got a good spot where they could shine and that is not having a single front row. Each person in the group has a responsibility.

Suck this up because it won't be the first time your child is not on front row and you can guarantee that she won't be if you go complain that it hurts her ego to not be on front. She needs to learn to adjust and be a part of the team.

We had 1 cheerleader mom who insisted that her daughter be a flyer. This woman would not take no for an answer and the coaches relented because this mom went up the ladder at school. She was good at back flipping down the court and cheering but she felt like she HAD to be the flyer. She was a little butterball that was hard as a rock. My daughter was one of the girls in her stunt group who had to help catch her and I ended up with Dr. bills for sprained arms and knees as well as the other parents who's daughter were on this stunt team and black eyes and bruises where this girl would come down the wrong way because she had no balance. We didn't place in any competition that year.

Don't be that mom.

sigh.
they have to start somewhere. they can't possibly know where they want each kid until they've worked with them for a while.
everyone can't be in front. everyone can't be the star.
this is an excellent teachable moment for your daughter. here's the perfect opportunity for her to start to understand how the world works, and how to make her own goals about herself, not whom she can outshine.
yes, by all means talk to the teacher about it. thank her for presenting these girls with a real-life challenge and opportunity (after all, public school is so often touted as being 'the real world'), and for giving your daughter this terrific lesson in how to be gracious, appreciative and an invaluable member of a team.
khairete
S.

Why is it a negative message to tell a child that they aren't the best at something? Isn't it the truth? It's better that you figure out a way to teach your child to be resilient when it comes to disappointment, rather than to try to make everyone else soften the blow.

Prepare your child for the road, not the road for your child.

ETA: Your examples have nothing to do with your daughter's level (or lack) of resiliency. If she feels she's not good enough, it's up to her to work on getting better and it's up to you to parent her to try to do so.

I guarantee that ALL of those "game changers" were told MANY times that they weren't the best, weren't going to succeed, and weren't going to dance in the front. They were resilient and knew that they had to work harder to get where they wanted to be.

I agree with the other responses and really like Leigh's advice to share a disappointment that you experienced. She needs to understand that EVERYONE gets disappointed every now and again. Moreover, she can understand that when she does succeed at something, often another child is left feeling disappointed, which will help her be graceful and compassionate in her successes as well as able to take her own disappointments in stride.

It's totally reasonable and expected to move the strongest performers to the front of the group - not only do they help the performance look better, but the kids behind can then also follow the front row for cues when they forget the moves.

Help your daughter to put his in perspective and move on so that she can enjoy the performance.

The dance instructors were doing what dance instructors do. They are not public school teachers tasked with being fair to everyone equally; they are used to identifying the kids who will give the best performance and giving them the key spots or the best roles. Surely the school knows this already if this dance school regularly does this task for the school each year, as you indicate. Your daughter cannot be the first kid who has been moved or whose part has changed. This surely has happened in other years to other kids, no matter how devastating it seems to you and to her right now.

I would not approach the PE teachers; this is not their responsibility. I would not approach the dance teacher; he or she is doing what dance teachers do, and it's normal in any dance performance they have ever arranged. I would instead talk to your child. Sympathize with her. Tell her about a real time when YOU were disappointed -- when you didn't get a role in the class play, or you were told by the band teacher that you were not practicing enough and it showed, or any time you didn't get to do something you wanted to do because, frankly, someone else was chosen. Tell her about that and then say, because at eight she IS old enough to start learning this, that we sometimes get moved, or not chosen at all, or given something to do that we feel is not what we wanted. But that is OK; there will be other things for which we ARE chosen, where we do shine. If your child can learn to say congratulations to the kid who was moved up and applaud that, she will have learned a lot.

You said the teachers should know better but again - if they are dance teachers and not public school classroom teachers, this IS how they teach. If they were jerky or cruel or snarky about it and made negative comments about other kids, or yelled and screamed to "teach" the dance, that's different and they should be called out for that. BUT if it was along the lines of "Sally's doing great -- everyone, watch how Sally does it, if you can do it like that you'll improve" etc. -- that is just how they work.

If you think it's a mistake to have these outside instructors coming in at all, that's a different issue, but if your issue is "my child's feelings were hurt" -- use that as a teaching opportunity for your child. You cannot rush in and salve every wound and criticize the school whenever she's disappointed, or she will not learn anything about how to cope. As for you, yourself -- can you step back a bit and see objectively that you're going all "mama bear defending her cub" here? Of course you're upset for her and any of us would be. But please take a breath and choose to step back from running to the teacher on this one. Save that for when it's really needed and you will be taken more seriously when you really do have to see the teacher.

I don't think this is something to call a teacher for. I do think it's a teachable moment for your daughter.

Everyone has their own talents. It's wonderful that Other Girl is great at dancing. That is her talent. You are fine at dancing, but it's not your best talent. I know you are disappointed, but you are doing your best and I'm proud of you for that. Your talent is XXX, and if it were an XXX show, you would surely be in the front.

And, although it's not a dance school and it probably could have been handled better, I can see where the teacher is coming from. Having someone good in the front in a situation like this helps the whole class, because they can all see her, and when some of them forget what comes next during the show, they can look at her for a reminder. And maybe another kid doesn't fit in the front row on the stage without having them run into each other so they couldn't just add her.

A.,

Welcome to mamapedia!!

This is life. Disappointments happen. A special set of teachers were brought in to teach the dance. They did what they felt was right for the performance.

My oldest son plays the violin. He does NOT want to be First Chair...he does NOT like the attention. he's in the back row. The VERY LAST row. He's FINE back there. I asked the teacher about it. She told me he's a strong player and doesn't like to be the center of attention. He always does VERY well!

He's NOT the only child back there. Your daughter is NOT the only child in the back.

You're angry with the teachers, why? Because they did what THEY FELT was right for the performance?

Are you the parent that tells your child how AWESOME she is and she gets a trophy for everything she does? I'm sorry if that comes out hurtful, it is NOT meant to be. However, doing this gives your child a sense of entitlement or "air" about her that isn't right and she will always have unrealistic expectations and be disappointed when others do not see her as perfect or the best.

So the other kid is the best? Okay. GREAT!! I'm sure there are things your daughter is great at that this other girl is not. In my opinion, you are feeding into your daughter's sense of being awesome. I GET wanting to protect her and GET wanting her to be happy....but you can't be happy every day. The teachers did what they felt was right for the performance. Tell your daughter that there is nothing wrong with being in the back of the line. You are teaching your daughter that being in the back is bad..it's NOT. It does NOT mean she sucks. It does NOT mean she's a horrible dancer.

Tell your daughter to do her best. Make the performance great for EVERYONE. Who knows...she might be good enough that she's helping the kids around her be better.

Life is full of disappointments. These kind of things build resilience in kids and should be used as a teaching moment. You can certainly speak to the teacher but I hope you do not request they move your daughter back to the front row. Also, save your anger for things that really matter.

Yup, life lesson. It won't be your daughter's last disappointment. It's up to us moms to help our children learn to navigate and accept life's disappointments, not shield them from them. If the other girl is the "best," then she should be showcased. Tell your daughter she is better at other things.

No, I don't think you need to talk to the teacher. It's over, and like you said, it's not a dance school, so this isn't something that's going to likely happen again.

Yeah, I'm on the "that's life, teachable moment" side of this. If you were the mom of the better dancer, you'd be irritated your child wasn't being more featured. It's possible the "better dancer" really worked hard at home to learn the moves and really earned the position. I'm with suz t on this.

There have been times when I have been compelled to step in and stand up for my child.

There have been times where I have coached my child to stand up for themselves.

This is neither of those.

This is a "the way it is" kind of thing. This is a "you WILL have a chance to shine at somewhere you excel, this is not that chance".

Least that's they way I'd play it.

I hope you can encourage her and enjoy the show anyway.

:)

Here's a take, they all learned the piece. They all executed all the moves. However, girl B has a grace whereas girl C is a bit off by a second or two. When it comes to practicing as a group, you must have harmony in the movement in order for the dance to "flow" with no hesitation.

It does suck to have to move but you must remember that there are others who are in the same boat as you. Maybe the girl B has a body that fits an image better than girl C and fits in better with the "look" that the dancer teacher is going for. We will never know.

As others have said, this is a life experience. Yes, she will feel crushed and disappointed that she was moved but she will learn from it. She will learn that she is not always going to get the top spot no matter how hard she tried but she must do her best at what she does. She has to understand that she does not know why someone else is selected for something as she cannot read the other person's mind.

What she learns now and how she reacts to change(s) will help shape her for the future. She will be an optimist or a pessimist. Self-esteem is confidence in what you do and how you do it. We all don't get trophies for just showing up - we really need and have to earn them. (another story and another place).

I will get off my soapbox. Give her a big hug and go out for an ice cream.

the other S.

PS Welcome to the world of life for both you and her. As you will have to be her teacher and guide her through the mind field. The squeakiest wheel does not always get the grease.

At my kids' school, they do it by height.
So that, the shorter/smaller kids are not "hidden" by the taller bigger kids. Because, all parents want to see their child and take photos of him/her. So it is not an emotional decision, but a logical one. Height.

But sure, then the good coordinated ones, MAY be in the front. Because they are showy and usually have had dance experience before.
But that is not the only element that a placement decision, is made on. And they don't use the SAME "good" ones, in front each year.

Because my kids are tall, they are typically placed in the back rows.
So be it.
It never bothers them. (and it doesn't bother me. I can still get photos of them. Because, the class Teacher will send home a diagram, of their class's layout of where each child is, placed, in that dance formation). It takes time to do that for the parents, but the flier then helps the parents to know where their child is, to then take photos etc. and see, their child).
And kids know who the good ones are.
But usually the good ones, are not FOCUSED on, all the time. Because that is not the point of the performance. It is a group effort, made for FUN. Not ability. And the crowd does clap or cheer, for all the kids.
Not just certain ones.

The POINT of the performance, per my kids' school, is that it is FUN. Even the SPED kids/Autistic kids, are a PART of the performance too. And everyone cheers for ALL the kids, despite ability or showiness or who is in front or not.

You should call the teacher and ask in a non-accusatory way about the situation. Don't be upset. Don't be angry. You're still only getting your daughter's point of view. 8 yr olds tend to exaggerate things. I'm not accusing your daughter of anything, but she's upset and she has your attention.

I know we hate having to let our kids know that life isn't fair and that people aren't always nice, but this is one of those times. Even though she's not the best according to the dance instructor, she should still do her best.

Sucks it happened this way. I know our dance teacher moves kids around even up to the final dress rehearsal. They all do the same dance but she'll see someone not showing well or something and moved them around.

One time she taught them a step where they could change rows in an 8 beat measure so the back row becomes the front row. They did it very well.

I think it's sad the teacher did this like this but I'm sure she was just trying to make the group look the best.

Sometimes a kiddo just isn't do as well as the others and they need to be put in the back. This happened to my granddaughter this past performance. She was in a dance number and she just didn't know the dance as well as everyone else. This group consisted of teens and preteens and some older kiddo's. She's 10 and was on the back row. I could barely see her but she didn't look good near the front.

It upset her a bit but she still enjoyed the dance number when it was all said and done.

Just try to be positive and tell her sometimes grown ups make mistakes. This was a good thing for the group but it wasn't handled very diplomatically.

I can see why you are upset about this, I would be too. I feel like this is a life lesson AND it's ok to say something. You don't sound like you are trying to get her moved back or any decisions reversed, you just don't like how it was handled and want them to know that.

If I were you, I might say something like "I understand that as things progress, kids need to be moved around according to skill/staging, etc. Would you mind letting me know if this will continue to happen, or if you are planning to explain this to the kids? My daughter wasn't aware of this possibility and took a big hit to her confidence. If this isn't something that you go over with the kids, I'd like to be able to explain it myself so that she's not hurt again." This is a back-door way to get your point across, while coming at it as a how-can-I-help kind of approach.

I'll share a story that may help you feel in the same boat as others, if nothing else. Last year my daughter was in musical theater at her school (7th grade). Many lead parts went to 8th graders, and the teacher explained that this was normal to give those 8th graders a chance to have a lead before leaving the school. The 7th graders were fine, and figured that the next year (this year) would be their turn. Well, tryouts were held, and many leads went to 7th and even 6th graders. The 8th graders were so upset. Now of course, it makes sense that the parts go to the best auditions, but it wasn't fair that the year before they were told everything goes to the 8th graders and when these kids were 8th graders that no longer applied. My daughter wasn't particularly bothered, she is not serious in the theater and hadn't tried out for a lead. But some kids were super upset, and a few even asked their parents to let them drop the class- and they did! I get being upset, but to let their kids drop this class was ridiculous. It taught the kids to quit when they are wronged or they don't like an outcome.

So be glad that you aren't one of THOSE kind of moms! You are a caring mom who is protecting her daughter's confidence, I think that's great. Do what I imagine you are doing, encouraging her to be the best in whatever place she is given. And just let it suck that she was moved, empathize with her, and she'll move past it when she's ready. Which might well be sooner than you are willing to move past it- we moms always take things harder!! :-) Good luck to you both, I hope she nails her part!

I would definitely talk with the teachers. I suggest you've made an assumption, perhaps based on your experience as a dancer, that may not be true. My experience has been as a student. The better dancers are placed in front so that it's easier for those needing help to follow the steps by watching those in front of them. Making the switch does not have to mean that your daughter isn't good enough. Perhaps the other girl is a better dancer. What does that matter? Dance in grade school is not a competition. Seems to me you are giving your daughter the message that she is less than the other girl.

Also there may be other reasons for the change in placement. Perhaps it's because of height or the ability of students to work together.

I suggest you encourage your daughter to not compare herself with the other girl and instead sympathize with her feelings while telling her that enjoying dance is the goal. Let her know it doesn't matter which row she is in. Focus on your daughter without comparing her to anyone else. I suggest that you're telking her that being in the front row is the most desired place when it would be more helpful to help her deal with the disappointment and reinsuring her that she is ok even in the back row.

If my daughter continued to be upset I'd go with her to talk with the teacher about how she feels after first talking with the tteacher myself and was confident that the teacher would be helpful.

I would mention it. First I would ask what happened and then mention a few key points. Mention perhaps they should have let the children know they are still placing students in positions, so where you are placed today may not be where you are placed in the final performance. I would let them know that this is difficult for a child her age because it hurts her self esteem and if she had known she may be moved, perhaps she wouldn't have felt so bad. And, they all should be praised for their hard work. This is a performance that was important to all of them.

It does happen though. My daughter was just moved from a level 3 to a level 2 in figure skating. When I asked why, I was told it was because she had to improve in those areas and she is a hockey player. I asked if he remembered the bloody blister she had on her foot and mentioned her new skates are blistering her as well...remember stretching her skates the day before.

Anyway, point being, I am concerned about telling her that she must choose between hockey and figure skating because the ice skating coach doesn't agree with hockey players figure skating. She will be crushed, but not everyone agrees with girls in hockey.

This is really eating at you and is hard on your child. It's a PE thing, not a dance school. Go talk to the principal. It may make a difference from now on.

I normally agree with most everything Suz T. says but this time I disagree. Why is it acceptable for them to move the "better dancer" up front and move your kid to the back? Shouldn't the "better dancer" have to learn that sometimes, you get stuck in the back - and to deal with it?

Your daughter should be upset. They gave her a spot and are now pushing her to the back because someone is better.

If this were dance class then I would fully support the best up front and a good lesson for your daughter. But it's a school play for 8 year olds.

If I were you I would mention it to the teachers in a very non emotional way. Let them know that your daughter was hurt by their decision and has cried about it. Don't insist that they make changes, but do let them know. I think they should be made aware of the situation. It's up to them how they handle it (perhaps apologize to your daughter for making her feel bad).

8 year olds are not emotionless. They have feelings and also are very aware of what is going on around them. Her feelings are valid. Let her know that and also do explain to her how life isn't fair - never will be - and that she should keep her head held high and keep dancing.

TF - Butterball that was as hard as a rock. Love it.