Husband Ruins Fun for Everyone

You can drive his truck can't you?
People at the tree places will tie it up there for you, and Hubby can help get it down when you get home.
I think you need to start doing things like this:
"Honey! We're going to go get the tree now. Do you want to come with us?".
Then let him say Yes or No.
And you accept which ever it is.
If he says 'No', then you say "Ok! We'll miss you! See you later, Sweetheart!".
You give him a chance for inclusion - then he makes his choice - then you abide by it.
Same thing for the movies or anything else.
You can't make him want to be the husband/father you want him to be.
But you don't have to let his behavior get you down - you go out and have/make family fun anyway.
If he spends all his time alone I'd worry if he's depressed.
You might try and get him to go see a doctor for a physical.
If you feel you and he are drifting apart, some marriage counseling might be a good thing, too.

I'm with Dawn on this one, completely.

He's not being a father, he's not acting like a spouse, he's not even a supervisor... so, what is he?

Part of what I really adore (and find attractive) about my husband is the fact that with no exception, he would prefer to spend time with us than do anything else. Yesterday, we drove for 90 minutes to have lunch with his twin brother and take the kids on the Polar Express. Could he have been doing other things? Yes. Would he have missed that experience? Not in a million years.

After your SWH.....
If he will not go and seek help from a physician or a counselor.....YOU go to Alan-on.. Wether he is an alcoholic or not..

Or YOU go to counseling alone.
No excuses for the 2 of you.. There is something going on and you need to solve this for your daughters sake. This is not a healthy home. She is worth it..

In the future, just know this is not something he finds enjoyable and honor that..

Make this a mom and daughter fun outing. Go for hot chocolate, wear Christmas antlers on your heads.. Get someone take a photo of the 2 of you with your phone documenting with your final choice..

It is like me an Bruce Springsteen concerts.

My husbands loves them.. So I would tag along and try my best to enjoy them. I cannot stand Bruce's whining and screaming about cars.. or whatever it is he is whining about in his songs.

Unfortunately I would get a migraine and it felt like torture. Did you know Bruce loves to do encores!! Sometimes 3 times!!!

I finally told my husband..I love you with all of my heart, but I just really do not get anything from being there.. Please take a friend in my place.... Understand, my husband LOVES Bruce and wants to share this love..

We have VERY good family friends. Her husband is a Botanist, but HATES Tree lots. So she and I have always gone (for 19 yrs) together (wearing crazy Christmas hats) to pick out her Tree and Garland.. It is one of our crazy traditions..

Her husband is thrilled not to have to have to get pulled into the shenanigans.. And she and I really have a great time.

I don't know if I'd want to be married to someone like this, K.. That sounds really harsh, I know. I wonder if at some point he'd understand what he's missing if he had to be in a room somewhere ELSE without you all.

I don't believe that it's better to be with someone whom there is no relationship with than be without someone. Your daughter will learn that this is normal, and that will hurt her in her own relationships with men later in her life. Is it worth it? You need to decide that.

About the tree, I'd buy an expensive artificial tree and put it up instead. It's not too hard to put up by yourself, and you won't need a truck.

So sorry.

Dawn

Get the tree without him, and have the guy at the store help you put it on the car, etc.

I think every time he doesn't want to do something, or acts miserable about it, you should just go without him. If it keeps happening, and hasn't done anything with you and your daughter for a month or so, and doesn't seem to care, insist that he go to a counselor with you, to talk about it. He is supposed to be a member of the family he chose to create.

My husband acted kind of miserable about everything for a decade, when he was in a job that was too stressful for him, and I should have done something about it back then. I should have taken the advice I am now giving you. The moment he acted pissy about something, I should have left his sorry a$$ there. Then if he refused to ever be pleasant, I should have insisted we go to a counselor. Instead, I brushed stuff off and tried to ignore it.

You have to be willing to hold men's feet to the fire, so to speak, and force them to change their behavior. If you try going places without him for a couple of months, and he doesn't care at all and is perfectly happy to be by himself, then you might want to ask him if he wants this marriage and family and be prepared to leave, or kick him out. Don't let him get away with this selfish behavior.

I once had a therapist tell me "you are responsible for your own happiness". I had complained that my now ex had been somewhere 2 hours past what he promised, while I was trying to contain 2 toddlers at the time and he was oblivious. Therapist asks me "so why didn't you leave at the agreed time?" I was relying on ex to live up to his word/obligation to make me happy, and it wasn't working. It was up to ME to change the unhappy circumstances.

In your situation, he is making you all miserable, so it is up to you to make yourself and daughter happy. you know it will be miserable with him, so why include him? I would simply announce to him that the family is going to do this activity at this time, he is welcome to come if he would like. No reminders, no nudges, no begging or insisting. Just go. Everyone will be happy. Yes, you will feel bad that it isn't "family time" - but would you prefer miserable family time or a happy memory for your child?

Sounds to a big extent like my husband. But mine will do stuff with extended family. But to have him to anything like do any kind of shopping, any kids activities outside of sports, or any fun stuff like movies, parades, etc - he won't do. He would rather be at home watching tv, cleaning out his shop or anything else. What I finally had to decide was the kids and I could either stay at home doing nothing because he wouldn't go or we could go ourselves, have a great time, and make memories for my kids. I decided to go and do. We have some great memories, the kids have fun, and we get to get out of the house. My hubby is missing out and will one day regret it. But I can't make him go and won't ruin our fun by fussing about it. Just my 2 cents.

Sheesh...sounds so much like my husband. Mine is getting better though. I've lived with his nasty attitude for years now, but he finally decided (after much of my convincing) that he would try therapy. He started going this past summer. He was diagnosed with bipolar II and depression. He is on meds now and is MUCH happier. I still have to twist his arm a little to get him to do family things, but it's much easier than it used to be. He is actually enjoying his kids now. But, I think it's just his personality too. Like for example, this past saturday we went to Santas Secret Workshop at our kids school. He was happy to go along, but once we got there..he started whining about how he didn't want to be in there that long. I looked at him and said, "Listen..we are going to be in there for however long it takes for the kids to do everything they want. This isn't about you or me...it's about THEM." He straightened up after that and ended up taking us all out for a surprise lunch after we were done...and buying me something from the school spirit store for my car. Two things that he usually doesn't do...ever. We have been through a lot in the past 4 years, but he's turning things around. Slowly but surely.

I think your husband needs a wake up call. Sounds like he may be suffering from something that isn't fully in his control? I may be totally off here..just speaking from experience. I would say he needs to seek therapy...and then maybe you both could go together. Or if he won't go...just go for yourself. I started going to therapy with my husband and it has been amazing. I am now going solo too. I love every session. Maybe it could help you too.

Good Luck!!

It's hard to know what's going on, not knowing your husband.
It's true that not all men find the kid stuff "fun" but I would hope there are times that he spends with his daughter, and you. Do you ever laugh and smile and have fun together as a family, over dinner or playing outside or watching TV if nothing else?
If he truly spends ALL of his time completely cut off from you then that is very sad.
Talk to him about it, after your daughter is in bed, over a glass of wine. Ask him what's going on, how he's feeling, etc. If he just says everything's "fine" then let him know how YOU are feeling, that you wish he could be more a part the family life.
Maybe he needs a little time alone with you, without your daughter (?) It's important to stay connected as a couple too.
In the mean time, stop making him go places with you. Go out and have fun and make memories with your daughter!

I went through this with my husband, too. He wasn't thinking of these activities in terms of the kids, just that it wasn't his "thing." We talked about how much it means to the kids to do things like this. There's plenty of other things he does with the kids, but this type of thing is a little harder for him.

We try to keep a balance. I try to really think about which activities would mean the most for him to be a part of and fly solo on the things that wouldn't matter as much to the kids.

I should say that early on we had to have a few discussion about what his expectations of fatherhood were. He was looking at things in terms of how much of his previous life he had to sacrifice. (Never mind that I had to sacrifice just about all of my previous life.)

I think your husband needs to recognize that putting on a smile and a good attitude for events like this is part of being a good dad. But you can try to strike a balance. Maybe decide together which events are the most important and how many each year is a fair number. Maybe he could participate in one thing each month, and he's off the hook for the others. Whatever you decide is going to make both of you happy, but make sure he knows that he needs to have a good attitude. No more "poopy pants!"

My dad was like this sometimes growing up and my hubby is sometimes now too. I find it EASIER to do hings on my own and the kids and I can have more fun. However, lately my husband has been much more involved in everything and as long as he keeps his cool, we all have a better time. Not to mention he is starting to enjoy the time with the kids and doing fun things. Plus I put him in his place if he needs it. :).

I'd get a fake tree. My husband puts the tree up for me when I ask and the kids decorate it. This year he even helped put some of the garland on that I normally do...it was hard for me to reach around just having had surgery, and he did it without complaint. But if you get the fake, then you get to put it up when you want it and I bet he will feel bad he messed up the whole experience for you and your daughter.

Also, ask him what's up with the attitude. It's not needed or wanted.

Honestly, my husband started turning around when I finally said "screw you, I don't NEED you to have a good time" and the kids and I did our own thing. I take tons of pictures always, so he'd see the amazing time we had and then he started to join. We are happier as a couple and the kids get more daddy time...it's win-win. I hope your hubby wakes up soon!

He might be depressed. Is he also an introvert and doesn't jive on a ton of social interaction?

The easy answer is to say ignore it and if he comes he comes, but you need to get to the bottom of it long-term. Is there something specific that can be addressed? My DH doesn't like me getting stressed out before road trips. I told him that it would help me a lot to leave earlier and not do "one more thing" and eat our buffer time. If he gets out in the car on time, then I'm more calm. I hate being late. So for him, could something like "we'll call you when we find a tree?" or getting a tree in better weather or just going artificial help?

Wow, sounds like you are married to my husband. I realized that my husband doesn't enjoy these types of activities, and that the kids and I have much more fun when I don't force him to join us, so I stopped asking him to join us. I just accept my husband for who he is and stop trying to change him, and I try not to be resentful. There are some activities he does enjoy with the kids, and I try to encourage those activities. I also make sure we have family time. My husband does not join us when we attend parades, midways, museums, zoos, go swimming, go hiking, attend festivals, church or concerts. He does like to go tobogganing with us, go out to dinner, go to the beach, attend sporting events with us, go boating and fishing with us, and he likes to take the boys to the movies and he and the boys keep an aquarium as a hobby together. Anyway, I would suggest that you stop expecting your husband to do the things he doesn't enjoy, and ask him outright what activities he would like to do with the kids, or as a family. As for the tree, I'm sure that there is a lot attendant or someone that will get the tree into the truck for you.

K., I too have the same exact issue with my husband. I could have sworn this was my exact life, especially when I got to the bottom about him watching tv and on the laptop. My does the same thing and acts the same way. My daughter is 15 now and she would rather him not go anywhere. I despise this to the fullest with my family. He has gotten a little better, but to stop of from arguing , I just leave him alone. I found that letting go and letting God handle it is, the best answer. I literally pray to God before asking him to participate in anything and when I ask him... He says yes. Truly God is the answer. I also started telling him things in advance and so when the actual date gets here; he knows and he's prepared. I started sitting down with my husband and told him the consequences of not spending that family time with us, was going to be painful for him in the long run. He listened! Seriously, my husband has to be the MOST STUBBORN MAN alive, but truly praying to God and being persistent about what I needed God to do in my husband and through me (cause I had some anger issues deep down inside too) REALLY WORKED! Hope this helps.
Lynn, Bastrop, LA

1. Have you asked him why he doesn't want to spend time with you and your daughter?

2. Ask him if he would like to come, but don't make it mandatory. Just go and enjoy.

3. Please talk to your pastor about this. Your husbands behavior is not that of a caring leader in your home, it's that of a CHILD. He needs to learn to step up and know his role in your family...which doesn't include hiding in the basement with the TV and his laptop while his family does things without him.

If I were you, I'd be in my pastor's office setting up marriage counselling just as soon as possible.

laurie A, i'm dying here! i'm just like you. my dh adores the Boss and can listen to him for hours on end. when springsteen starts moaning about nebraska, or worse, doing a live version of 'this little light of mine', i just want to start sawing on my wrists with a dull spoon.
which is also what being married to a scrooge like yours would be for me, K.. what a drag.
i have to hope there are SOME things he enjoys doing as a family. if so, encourage more of those and leave him out of the stuff he clearly hates. better for you and the girls to have a good time than to try and fake it with him. but if he's really this way all the time, you've got some hard choices to make.
good luck!
khairete
S.

HAve you tried asking him what his deal is? If not then I would have a frank discussion about this. It is important to come at him strong and not whining. If you can't get him to come around then start living your life around him. It will be harder for you of course but your daughter deserves memories from childhood that do not involve fighting and friction whenever something 'fun' is supposed to happen. I would also do my research on how to compensate for the psychological effects that an absent and uncaring father has on little girls. I have read that this effect can be profound and life altering so it is an important thing to figure out and start working on.

LAstly-do you have any relatives or friends that you can recruit to start some fun holiday traditions with your daughter? Maybe a group visit to santa or cookie baking? If you can't have family memories that are postivie at least you can try to make other kinds.

I just wouldn't bother with him anymore. Just come to terms with the fact that he will NOT be joining you at all anymore and make plans for you and your daughter. Don't even bother trying to include him. Instead of an invitation to do something with you guys, just tell him you guys are going to do X and then say goodbye and go have a good time.

It will be sad at first, but eventually you'll get used to him not going and it won't be a "thing."

Eventually he may change his mind, but then again maybe he won't. No need to let Scrooge ruin the holidays for yourself and your child(ren).

Some men just aren't as into things that us moms are. You'd think it would be great and enjoyable for them, but it's not.

My husband doesn't like crowds, heck he's not a people person...at all. It took me a long time to just accept that about him. I see it even in a few of my kids, so instead of forcing him into something he really doesn't want to do I plan it, and then let him know our plans. He either comes or he doesn't, it is his choice. I find that the less pressure he feels about these things the more he is willing to do. He still prefers to be home, and will choose that most of the time, but this has made things a lot nicer for everyone.

Yes, I would stop trying so hard. Invite him along but let him say no. I'd tell him he's no fun and laugh. Keep your invitations light and make it OK for him to opt out. Or, I might, even, just do what I wanted without telling him a thing. Maybe he'll discover he misses being involved. Maybe not.

You focus on having a good time and stop expecting him to be someone he's not. I would definitely have told him he was not invited when he started to show unhappiness. Your goal is to be happy for yourself and your children. Make that happen without him.

Perhaps you could go for counseling to learn how to deal with this or read some books on how to improve your relationship with yourself so that you need his involvement less.

I suggest it may be that when you keep trying to include him he feels cornered and needs to hide. I suggest that, as when you went to Poland, if you stop pushing he may come around more. And I would definitely, in a light way, tell him to get lost when he's not good company.

Later; Stop trying to make this situation all right. Don't make excuses to your daughter. Be honest about what is happening. Daddy wants to be downstairs is all that's needed if anything has to be said. Continue going downstairs to be with him from time to time. Accept him as he is and stop making excuses for him. You're trying to assume responsibility for his actions and by doing so you are letting him off the hook. One thought. Why does he have to be involved when you have the answers? When your daughter asks about her Dad, tell her to go ask him.

He clearly isn't interested in doing this and I don't really understand why you would want him to considering time and time again he makes everyone miserable.

For next year just take your daughter out for a mommy and me get the Christmas tree outing. The people at the tree place will help you get the tree on the vehicle. Trust me I know. As a single mom for years, our live tree was always placed on the tree by the people at the place and me and the kids and perhaps a neighbor would schlep it into the house. It's not that difficult.

For whatever the reason it just isn't his thing so stop forcing your fantasy on him because he can't deal with it at this time.

As for him retreating to his man cave on the regular. He may be suffering from depression or his testosterone levels may just be low or a whole host of other reasons real or imagined. Any way you look at it, it is just not acceptible. I would recommend getting him to the doctor's for a complete physical and then move forward from there.

Instead of being accusatory towards him, try asking him some questions like, "Honey, what do you think of doing this or that?" or Try saying something like, "I would really love for us to spend some quality time together but I couldn't think of anything for us to do. Do you have any ideas?" or perhaps getting him to show your daughter some of the things he enjoyed as a kid by asking like this, "I was just thinking about that story you told me about when you did XYZ as a kid. Why don't we take our DD to do something like that? What do you think?"

Getting him engaged and letting him think it was his idea is better than you springing all of your ideas on him.

Hang in there and don't give up but you will need to alter your approach and manage your expectations. I really hope this helps.

I didn't read the other posters, so I don't know if anyone has suggested depression, but I wonder if that may be part of it. He could also be a person who is NOT social, or has social anxiety issues - everything you mention is going out where people are. By doing something for the kids - do you mean at home as well? Or is it all going-out stuff? Men generally are proud and do not like to admit if they have issues, especially something like anxiety or depression. If this could be the problem, nothing you do will help him or make these family trips better - and he will just feel worse for being a failure. None of this is your fault, but he'll need your help/support to get help on this. Good luck!

That sucks.
It does sound like he has some sort of depression.
My husband had a pretty crappy childhood. His parents were divorced and every holiday and special event was ruined by some kind of selfish drama.
I try to make things like this completely different for him.
Smooth, and stress free.
I hope your husband starts enjoying these types of things for you and your daughter. Unfortunately he is really missing out.
I hope it gets better.

Is this mainly about the Xmas tree? Maybe your husband has bad memories of Xmas as a child or there is something negative in his past around this time. I know for me, my husband had a single mom who did EVERYTHING and I mean everything so sometimes he just doesn't get that I'm not going to do that esp. if he's around. He also works a ton of hours so I send him an email in the beginning of the week or even two weeks before and tell him what we need to do as a FAMILY on the weekend.

It sounds like you need to sit down and have a conversation where neither of you accuses the other of anything but just laying it all out and find out if he's willing to share why he doesn't feel libe being involved with you guys - maybe he's not sure how to relate to his daughter as she gets older? Maybe he's depressed/burned out from work? Either way sounds like you need to have a talk and possibly counseling if you are both willing to work on your marriage. Good luck!

My husband acts like that sometimes too, especially when it comes to going to chuckie cheese or kids birthday parties, then if we go without him, he gets upset, lol. I would ask your husband ahead of time if he wants to go, just dont get upset if he would rather stay home. Im sure someone from the tree place could help you secure the tree. Or just be blunt with him. We are all going together to pick out our xmas tree, it would mean a lot to me if you would try not acting like a jerk while we are doing it.

What works with my husband is this: we are going to toys r us, since we have a little extra money why dont we stop by the liquor store AFTER and you can pick out an expensive six pack. (My husband has a weakness for expensive craft beer) Not sure if yours does, but you could try something similar, just include something you know he really wants to do in the outing. If he starts acting like a jerk while you are out, just say, honey if youre not feeling well, we can just go home after the tree lot...

How much does he drink? I think there is a clue there. He would rather be along with his video games and beer than spend time with his wife and daughter. So a couple of things come to mind. Depression or alcoholism or both. Many people with undiganosed mental illness, depression, bi-polar ect drink or use drugs to self medicate.

Now about you and your daughter. It's time to get help. Go to counseling or al-anon, or any other program to help learn to deal with him. You are not going to magically change him or get him to go to counseling or anything else. He is doing what he wants when he wants. It is time for you to decide if you really want to stay married to him. What are you hoping for?

Remember, your marriage is the templet your daughter will use as a guide for her own relationships. By accepting this you are showing your daughter that this is a 'normal' marriage.

Both of you deserve to be in a loving nurturing environment.

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but I don't like to make assumptions: You don't mention that you've talked to him. What does he have to SAY when you ask him directly about this?

How old is your husband? How satisfied is he with his lot in life? Maybe he feels like he's not exactly on the track that he set for himself. Maybe he realizes that he's likely been here longer than the time that he's got left. Men tend to respond to that differently. If he's feeling inadequate in any way, then he probably needs to show himself that he's got more control over his life. They spend so much time doing things out of obligation to others, taking care of others (even if it doesn't look like that to us, that's their logic and motivation), and at a certain point, they feel this pressure to meet their own needs. They can only function for so long in the provider mode before they need big breaks, where women just break down and phone in their notification from the bottom of the well. It's different wiring, so don't hit him over the head with anything that'll do damage.

You are feeling neglected (for you and for your family). The more you tug at him, the more he'll resist and resent, and the less you'll be getting of HIM, and the more you'll tug.... You're gonna have to be the one to initiate the break from this cycle that you guys are on. Give him a vacation. I don't know what your family life is like, but keep everyone--including YOU--out of his hair for a full day and send him to a spa or hotel or golf course and insist that he make the most of it so he can return fully charged. It sounds like you're rewarding what you see as his bad behavior, but you've got to start somewhere. See the way that he responds to you as a sign that he needs help. Right now, you probably can't even get his attention, because anything that you ask of him will sound like just another demand on his energy. Right or wrong is not what this is about. It's about learning how to get what you need. Maybe this will work for you if you just take the first step.

I learned early on that if I want my husband to be present in our home--especially with the kind of work that he does professionally--I HAVE TO make sure that his calendar has golf on it. He is no good to me if his mind is scattered, and that's just a fact, not a judgment.

I'm sorry you're husband is acting like this. I lived with a very unhappy man for 20 years and it was miserable! However, He liked to go places, and always "insisted" my son and I go with him, but they were places only he was interested in. It was so depressing!
I wish I had some good advice for you, but I've heard that people don't usually change. I will pray that things get better for you and your daughter. Have fun with her! Time goes really fast!

sounds just like mine. Mine is selfish though. he wants to do stuff hes interested in not the rest of us. My son and I just do things without him. He used to within the past 5 years lock himself in his office after work, then go back after dinner until bed time. He did this every night. I quit calling him when dinner was ready. A few times I did dishes and put the dinner away in the fridge and then he'd come down all in a huffy so I told too bad because i don't get to do that. On occasion I go to my moms for dinner without telling him.
You should stop inviting him out. You don't need a gloomy gus on your hands to ruin the day.

ETA: Send your daughter downstairs on occasion just to bother him. if she asks about him, send her down to ask.

GO WITHOUT HIM!!!! I know that from experience! I could have written your post because it sounds like my husband and we have 3 daughters! I am a "single" Mom with a husband. Meaning I tell him our plans and if he comes GREAT if not Great too!!! I refuse to put up with the crappy attitude and miss out on fun just because he has a bug up his #@$! Go out have fun and hopefully one day he will wake up and realize what he is missing out on and hopefully it will be before he has no marriage left or relationship with his daughter left! Sorry your in that position but the best remedy really is inform him(who, what, where, when and how long, and when the car is pulling out) and then go with or without him and don't appologize, feel bad or worry about him just have fun and make it special Mom and daughter time. My girls and I do it almost all the time!!! I do feel sorry at times for my girls but I would feel so much worse if someday they said, "We never did anything because Mom just waited around for Dad and he never wanted to do anything." Make their life great and when you ca talk to him tell him you and His daughter miss doing things with him and then leave it alone.

For what it's worth, I thought Marda P had a very good response. I second what she said!

Don't include him in the things that you've come to expect him to be unhappy about so that he doesn't bring you down. Let him be responsible for his relationship with is daughter. If she asks about him, suggest she go ask him directly. It may open his eyes - or it may not. Either way, he is who he is, and you will eventually need to figure out if you can live happily and in a mentally healthy way together.

There may be drepression or some other difficult circumstance he's dealing with that he's not shared, or it may simply be that he's just not a guy that can get interested in or be bothered by all that 'girly' stuff - even if it is for his own daughter's sake. Counseling for yourself may help you cope and make decisions about what to do about the situation. Best of luck to you.

I almost thought you were talking about my DH until you got to the point about him staying downstairs alone with a TV and a computer/laptop. Now, I'd be a little worried. I think you should make "surpirse" visits downstairs are various times and act like you're interested in what he's watching/doing and offer to join him in some fun. If he's on the laptop, then ask if you could play games or watch videos on it with him. Just try to make it look nonchalant. Ok, my DH...He doesn't like to shop unless it's Black Friday or there is a bargain he's after. He also doesn't care much for "family stuff." Why? He likes to make sure everything at home is in order like...the lawn is mowed, "dangerous trees" are cut, stumps are taken out, the plumbing is insulated, ect. Things that he feels help to protect the house and family....I guess the best way to put it is, that he is too busy taking care of "mannly things" to be a good father and hubby to do "womannly things" like shopping and "family stuff." He also worries about money. I'm the type of wife/mom that doesn't like to "force" family members into doing things they don't really want to do. I find that when you drag someone with you that really doesn't want to go, everyone has a really "bad" time. I've noticed it when my MIL tells him he has to do something or go some where with us. I hate it! I know there are times he does need to be with us like at family gatherings, so I try to keep it as painless for him as possible by trying to just stay 3 hours rather than all night and we bring a gameboy for him and my BIL to play with. They like to compete with each other to see who can get the highest score. As for shopping for anything and church...It's just me or DS and me or MIL and me. (Can't take any of them out together...they argue too much.) I find store clerks and tall customers to help me carry stuff, load the car or reach tall shelves. (If a male customer, I ask his wife/girlfriend first.) Much happier and better life that way. DH just has a different view of what a family is. No biggy. He still loves us and cares for us.