How Involved Is the "Average" Dad?

When I'm home, my DH is the best daddy in the world! He reads the bedtime stories (b/c I say to take it to dad), get her water, etc. If I am NOT home, I have to call and remind him to feed her dinner, start a bath, etc. Some men just need more reminding than others. My hubby is great and plays with my kids, loves them to the bone, but yes, some men are just easily distracted. Mine is. This is why I am a sahm and he works all day...

I'd say this is not okay at all. Maybe he needs directions, "I won't be home until 9ish so please have them wash up, get on PJ's etc." He has do learn diapers, too!

Don't know what is normal or not, but if I came home to that situation I would have been PISSED!! Not that I want to judge what your husband did, but if it were in my situation it would have been unacceptable. My husband is very involved in taking care of the kids. If I am gone in the evening he will get them fed cleaned up (although maybe not a bath but we don't give baths everyday) had them in their PJs, had them help pick up and put to bed. I don't know if my husband is not "normal" but that is what I expect of a person who together with me decided to have children. It is their responsibility as well.

He maybe needs a little more one on one time with the children to learn how to take care of them. I think we moms can so easily try to do everything and not give them the opportunity to learn to be a parent to them. It's not always a natural thing, something they really have to learn. Maybe try to go out and do some other errands for shorter periods and just go over what needs to get done before you get back.. Not how to do it, but just say baby needs to get cleaned up and put to bed before 7 and the others need to clean up and to bed by 8 or whatever the time. Don't give him step by step just let him know what needs to get done in general. Give him the opportunity to gain a little self confidence in parenting.

I work full time and my husband works from home, so he has the kids during the day while I am at work. He is an amazing father, but he just does things differently than I do or would. He makes sure the kids are fed, but the younger one may or may not be out of her pajamas when I get home. If she does have on pants, she may still have on the pajama shirt. He picks the older one up from school and takes care of the younger one (3) all day. We have been doing this for 7 years. I used to fuss about stuff, but he says that if I come home and they are alive, then he did his job. He feeds them, plays with them, etc.,so I have learned to just let him do it his way. The kids are happy, they love him, we don't have to pay for childcare, so that is how it is.

My hubby does everything I could leave for a week and he could handle everything just the same as I do but the house would probably just be a little messier that it would be if I was home, like moping the floor, toilets, ect. We have a 2 month old and he gets up an hour early for work so that feeding so I can get some extra sleep. He also works a 13 hour day and when he gets off he will either do the dishes, give the girls a bath, or cook dinner. I am not lazy usually the girls are bathed and dinner is ready when he gets here but with the two little ones sometimes things fall apart. I have had other moms say this is not typical but he wanted to learn to give the baby a bath and such and he thinks if he helps out we can spend more time as a family. But when the diaper is poopie he will hand her off to me unless I am sleeping or busy

Dear S.,

I was married to a man very similar to your husband. Trust me, his behavior and my former husband's behavior is not normal and is very dysfunctional. There came a point at which it was a danger for me and our son to remain with him, so we left him. There was no changing him. I suspected, when I was married to him, that his behavior was not normal. As you have suggested, living with such a person puts you in somewhat of an alternate reality so that you really do not understand what is normal and what is not. Once I left by former husband, it became very clear to me that his behavior, on many dimensions, was not normal. Now that I am happily (and very recently) remarried, fifteen years after having left my former husband, I am stunned at how abnormal his behavior was.

As long as your husband thinks this is normal behavior and is not willing, of his own free will and choice, to do something about it, your marriage will probably not survive. If your marriage survives, you may not. I fully suspect that I would have been dead of numerous health problems that were cropping up because of the stress I was under in my former marriage had I not left my husband.

I would suggest seeing a couples counselor immediately. If he is not willing to do that, that is a very good indication that things are not going to get better. In the mind of men like this, they are always right and you are the problem. If he is not willing to work on his behavior and your relationship, and you cannot live with it, consider consulting an attorney to see how to end your marriage before it destroys you.

I don't know if my husband is average or an outstanding Dad (I think he's outstanding). I have never had to tell him what to do while I was gone and even when I'm here, he still helps out. We're a team and I wouldn't accept any other way.

My BIL is like your husband. If I ever go to dinner or shopping with my sister, he calls her about every 5 mins to ask something (even what to feed himself for dinner). She even has asked if my husband would watch her boys while we went out and her husband was home. I was like, Absolutely not!

Sounds to me changes need to be made around your house but if you're like my sister, you allowed it to go on for too long and it might be really hard to see any changes. Good luck! I hope you see changes soon!

At our house it's not 50/50, it's 100/100. We both give 100% to make it as easy as possible on the other person. I'm home with the kids all day and often NEED to get out of the house in the evening. My husband will cook dinner for the three of them, or take the kids out to eat.

Our daily routine when he gets home from work is this: we work together to make dinner if I don't already have it done. We eat, he plays with the kids while I clean up (he would clean up but I don't think he loads the dishwasher right), then we head upstairs to get the kids ready for bed. On bath night he does the bath while I get jammies ready and rooms picked up. Then I get them dressed and brush hair and he brushes teeth. We read a book together as a famliy (if we have time), then tuck them in.

On the weekends he'll get up with them one day so I can sleep in. He takes them out to breakfast (this drives me crazy because we have lots of breakfast foods and I think it's a waste of $, but it's his "thing") and gets us coffee.

After reading your post, I realize that I've got it pretty good. I'm sorry your husband isn't more supportive and helpful. Does he go to therapy? Sounds like it would help.

Make a detailed list and schedule for each of your kids. That way he knows what happens next. My husband needed that when I would leave just for a few minutes or hours. Most times he didn't know what he could eat, snack on, when nap time was, how much baby food to give him etc. Even at 3.5 I have a schedule posted in our kitchen on his daily routine. I have updated it as he has gotten older. Mine even says next to breakfast time " Wash hands, brush teeth and hair, get dressed." Annoying yes, but once I type it out I don't have to say it again. Go over the schedules with him. Make a list before you leave as to what to do. Teach him to CHANGE DIAPERS, that is too much.

My husband does bath and bed time becuase I am with our son all day and that is their special time. You need him to take over something at bed time.

Get a good counselor!!

Good luck!

I am mad at your DH too...this is AWFUL!! First of all, you have kids, you "do diapers". There's no option B! You JUST DO IT!! And to leave a baby for TWO HOURS sitting in a high chair...that's HORRIBLE and LAZY! Not to mention poor mom who's coming home late and having to do EVERYTHING because Daddy sat on his rump and DID NOTHING!! I would rip his head off. I can tell you that when I'm out, my husband doesn't do AS MUCH as I would have done had I been home, like there may still be dishes to do or something, but my kids are all taken care of just as if I had been home. They're on a schedule, they eat on a schedule, sleep on a schedule, etc. and he knows the schedule as well as I do and he sticks to it! Probably because he knows things run much smoother for everyone when we stick to it, whatever the case, he respects it and he sticks to it and I have no worries whatsoever about leaving him with them. He's a GREAT dad. Your husband....not so much. You're right, this is not normal and you have every reason to be angry. Shame on Daddy! Good luck with this situation...I feel for you.

This is going to be long, but I have strong opinions about this!

I think first that you have to look at how he was raised-my DH was raised in a very traditional house where mom did all the inside stuff and most of the raising kid stuff and dad did some raising kids stuff and all the outside stuff. So I expect him to parent as he has seen-they seem to have no instinct to child care like us moms-and if I feel it is something that needs changed, THEN I open my mouth, but when we were discussing having kids, we discussed our roles then and decided that I would do most of the kid stuff (i.e. changing diapers, up at night, feeding-mainly because I am the SAHM and my DH works 40+ hours a week and when he gets home, rather than having him cook and clean, I'd rather have him spend those couple of hours spending time with his boys and relaxing.

So here's what normally happens when I have to leave for a little bit at night (which I rarely do cuz I'm a home-body anyway), but before I leave, I either have dinner already cooking (like crockpot or soup) or have it on the table before I leave. I set out the things they all need to eat (plates, silverware, bibs, napkins, washclothes for after, dessert) and have even sometimes pre-filled their sippies (though my DH is perfectly capable-I just try to make my leaving-which is a change in our normal cycle-that much simpler for my DH and kiddos). I expect when I get home, the dishes will still be on the table and food still out-but I know that is going to happen so I have no other expectations so my feelings don't get hurt (in fact, if my DH would have done even a few dishes as yours did, I would have fallen over on the floor :-D).

For the kids (age 3 and 1), I always change the baby right before I leave (my DH will change diapers, but only if absolutely necessary-like a poopy or he's soaked) so he has a fresh start and then I make sure our area of diapers is stocked with diapers and wipes (the 3 year old is potty trained so don't have to worry about him). I also lay out changes of clothes for both kids "just in case" there is a blow-out or an accident and PJs if my DH is going to put them to bed before I get home complete with a diaper on the baby's pile.

Why do I go through all this? Because the first time I went out without the baby, my husband freaked and then sent me a nasty text because I had left him with no diapers and my son had blown out and he didn't know where his clothes were (plus he was nervous about watching the baby without me for the first time too)! And when I got mad at him for not knowing where his son's stuff was and insulted his parenting, I realized- why would he know where I *and I emphasize the "I"* kept the extra diapers and which drawer contains whose clothes-because I take care of those things when he is at work so he doesn't see that when I came home, I put the diapers in the basement! I felt awful and decided that I had two choices: I could either force my DH to take precious time wih his boys to follow me around so I can show him where everything is-or I could just take a little extra time before I had to leave to make sure things are set for him to make his life easier!

(As far as change in when getting kids to bed or getting baby out of highchair, I figure I am not there and my DH is a good parent so he can make decisions about that-and I know other moms will yell at me for it, but if the baby wasn't screaming, I would not have freaked about him still being in the highchair-I'm sure you DH saw baby having fun "finger painting" and decided that was a fine activity for the time being! It doesn't sound like any of your kids were injured or fighting and biting each other-they were having fun and dad didn't want to interrupt-and may have even lost track of the time reading-mine does all the ime when playing xbox.)

Anyway, so here is a "normal" evening for us when I am home. My hubby gets home and sits to play xbox or watch TV or exercise until my "daycare" is done (I watch 2 other kids) and then he plays with his boys until dinner (sometimes it's playing cars on the floor or ball outside and sometimes it's watching a movie with them or playing a video game-though sometimes I have to make a suggestion or get the 3 year old to ask daddy to play something with them-not because he's a bad dad, but because he is tired and doesn't want to figure something out himself). After dinner, the boys take a shower with daddy if they need it and I get them ready for bed (dressed, brush teeth, meds taken) while DH plays xbox and then after I put the kids in bed, we usually watch a movie/show together after I do the dishes (or sometimes dishes don't get done until the next day...I'm tired too, but that doesn't make me a bad mom, does it? I'd just rather spend time with my guys too).

Do I mind having to do all that while my DH sits on his butt? Sometimes, yes, but rather than argue about it, I will find something for DH to do to help (i.e. hand him the older boy's pjs and ask him to put them on or after I get them all ready, I ask daddy to put them in bed and tuck them in and if I ask him to do something small that doesn't take long, he usually will). I made the decision early on though not to expect too much help from my DH on the kid/inside house front (he does ALL the outside stuff due to my bad allergies), so that when he does something surprising, like cooks dinner or helps fold socks or volunteers to put the kids to bed, I am pleased and shocked rather than constantly dissapointed in his lack of participation and lastly, I am just thankful that I have a husband, period-there are so many single moms out there or military wives who are doing it ALL by themselves and have no one to turn to to ask for a little help when they need it like we do, so no matter how much or how little my DH does, I consider him a great dad and appreciate him for him!

Well, I don't know what "normal" is, but my husband is awesome. He does everything around the house that I do. He does laundry, he does light cleaning (he doesn't scrub floors, but he picks up the toys and vacuums), he cooks, he bathes my daughter every night, etc. I work part time, so 3 evenings a week I am at work. I leave as soon as he gets home. On those nights he cooks dinner, plays with my daughter, cleans up the house, does bath & bed time. I come home from work to a clean house and a sleeping child. I know I am super lucky and my husband does a LOT compared to other husbands. I appreciate him immensly & try to tell him that all the time.

I don't know what problems your husband has, but my sister was married to a bi-polar man for 20 years. It was a VERY rocky marraige. They sadly just seperated. I know from talking to my sister that being married to a man with mental health issues is a very hard, long road. The divorce rate for couples where mental illness is involved is 90%. I don't say that to upset you, I say that to make the point that it is so very hard to be married to this type of partner. I hope your husband has a therapist he see's on a regular basis. If he is suffering from mental illness he MUST see a therapist. If he's not, insist he start asap. If he already has a therapist, call the therapist and ask if you can go together to the next appointment.

I wish you luck. You are swimming upstream and I hope you find the help you need.

It sounds to me like you have 4 children instead of 3! (why were YOU getting the oil changed on HIS car anyway?) No, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. You should be able to go out and feel at peace with the fact that the kids are being well-cared for in your absence. Men definitely have different parenting styles, which may sometimes drive us crazy as Moms, and they often need gentle reminders about what exactly needs to be done. I guess I was lucky in that my husband was always willing to jump in and do stuff like changing diapers and getting up in the middle of the night, etc. (he didn't always do things exactly the way I would, but at least he was participating! I think that's why he got the title of "the fun parent" in our house!) It sounds like your problem with your husband goes much deeper than simply caring for the children, though. You certainly don't want them to be caught in the middle of a much larger issue. You said that you'd been to therapy yourself - any chance you could go together as a couple? It sounds like he has alot of stuff to work through as well. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, and I hope for your children's sake you are able to get through it.

I'm a stay at home mom. My husband works and works odd shifts and has never been consistently home at bedtime. However, if I am "out" for some reason (rare that it is), if it is close to bedtime, he has them in bed already. He does an even better job of it than I do.

He usually will pick up in the kitchen some too, or have the kids do so. (they are older than yours). He doesn't always realize the stuff that we moms "have" to do before WE go to bed (taking out the dog, putting away groceries, prep work for the next morning, feeding the dog, taking the dog out, etc), but he does help some. He would never have left our 2 yr old in a highchair after dinner dirty and sat and read a book.

I have had a few, rare instances where something similar to this has happened, but not to your extent. My husband is usually great with the kids, but I've come home from an evening out with all the dishes still on the table and the house trashed with him sitting on his laptop. When I ask if he'd had a hard time with the kids, he'd said, "Nope, they went down great." Well after two times of this I snapped...ever since then he's MUCH better.

I think perhaps you can have a calm talk with your husband. Let him know that you need a night out/off too - and that means coming home to a cleaned up house where the kids have been put to bed. Give him a list and a timeline, just like you might a babysitter. I know my DH said that he's not used to the schedule like I am, so he needs some instructions. Now he's a pro. But I "get" that it isn't his thing 24/7 like it is for me - of course, he knows the kids have to go to bed, but "when" is usually when I've said.

I think you have every right to be annoyed. Plus, putting the baby to bed fully clothed and in a dirty diaper is just unacceptable. I mean any adult should just have that common sense.

Explain to your husband that after dinner time there's time for HIM to play with the kids, then it's wind down, brush teeth and get ready for bed time. He can't just sit there, read a book or be on the computer. They need their DAD. And you need for him to take care of the kids, then make sure the house is put back together and ready for tomorrow - you can't do breakfast in the morning if there's dirty dishes still on the table or in the sink!

Try not to blame. Try to take the viewpoint of "I understand that you don't usually do this alone, but frankly your DAD and I need for you to step it up a little bit. I need a night off too. I will be a happier, healthier person if I get some time to myself and get out of 'Mom Mode' for a little bit. I can't go out and relax knowing that I'm going to get hit with chaos when I get home." Give him examples of how he gets to go out and know that everything will be taken care of when he gets home - even if it's a business meeting or his usual bowling night. He doesn't have to worry about what he's coming home to. It's not fair that he isn't doing the same for you once in awhile.

I do think what your husband pulled is all to common. That said, I still don't think it's acceptable or that you have to "deal with it". Dad's should be equal partners. And there are plenty of them out there.

I work late a few nights a week. My husband will have our son fed, washed, pajamed, and in bed before I get home. When he is home our son is his number one priority and plays with him most of the time. I actually sometimes feel he is a better Mom then I am. I always thought he was not normal, lol. But that being said their are tons of things that drive me nuts about my husband with how he cares for our son and other things. It is all about balance.

The baby not moved would really make me mad, but I do agree with other posters that he needs to be aware of what his expectations are. Even if it seems obvious to you. For example, I don't think my father ever changed a diaper and we had him watch our son a few times. He would not change his diaper and he would watch him for 5-6 hours. We had to tell him that he needed to change his diaper, he finally changed it and put it on backwards, it was impressive.

Mental health is always a struggle, for everyone involved. You just never can tell what is going on in their minds. Maybe that is what he really thought was, "doing his best" for his family. If he really meant that then I think its time for some tough love. You will need to teach him what is expected of him. Not all people come equiped with the tools they need to become a good parent, sometimes they have to given to them and earned. For a while when I left my husband with our 3 small children (we have 4 now) I had to leave him a list of what was to happen when. If I was leaving at 5pm, there would be instructions on what to cook and by when, what is expected at the dinner table, (when to take the baby out of their seat, washed up). Then I would put, diaper change, with a "get over it" and a smiley. Tell him to think about it, who is going to be caring for him in his old age, probably his kids at some point and would he want to sit in a wet diaper or a full diaper for any length of time, remind him that they need comfort and dignity too, (not to mention one of the most basic of physical needs of an infant.). Then I would put, free time, with instructions that the house needs to be cleaned up afterwards, including dinner dishes. State bedtime deadline, like in bed by 9 for older girls and 7 for baby, with all the bedtime routines included. He may not have gotten to know any of these schedules simply because he didn't want to be involved with them or was just oblivious. You need to schedule a time to sit down and talk with him about these issues and what you expect of him. He definitely needs to be doing everything he can to help you, as a husband and father, that is his role, to support you in everything and vice versa. I also single parent with a husband around, but my husband works all day teaching and most of the evening tutoring students (for pay). When he comes home (anywhere between 7-10) he still helps with bedtime if he is there. He does dishes, laundry on weekends, plus maintenance on the house and vehicles. He is not extrordinary at house work and common sense stuff but he still makes an effort. I work also, we have 4 sons and make it work. I suffer from depression and he has anxiety, we have to work very hard, together, to keep things in our house flowing smoothly but we make it work.

My husband is not the most perfect man on earth, but he's a great dad. He doesn't take the initiative to cook dinner (I prefer to do it anyways, but it was weird at first because my dad always cooked growing up.) if something is broken or needs fixed, my husband is there. He is great at keeping the kids occupied (playing games, Wii, reading a book, watching TV, etc.) I know if I am not home the kids go to bed later, eat dinner later or out, and probably won't really get a bath. But I'm okay with that. Because I know they are well taken care of. My husband doesn't really do the dishes most of the time, but he will sometimes. The table doesn't get wiped down, and the floor may or may not be swept. He isn't overly involved in our daughter's dance, but does attend any show he is not working for. But you know, all in all, he's a great guy and I wouldn't trade him for the world. But I do say he is my 4th and most difficult child :).

I consider myself pretty lucky when it comes to my husband. But there are definitely differences of what I think should be done and what he thinks and then does. I think most dads can handle putting the kids to bed but you might need to ask him to do it. Also it might help to get him involved with the nightly routine so he understands what to do when he is on his own. My husband works late a lot so I do bed time alone a lot but when he is here he reads books and lays by our daughter for stories too. He really wants that time with her. I would try to have a calm talk with him to let him know where you are coming from and what you would like to see change.
By the way when they hang out during the day it usually involves the TV! Like sometimes he gets up with her so I can sleep in on the weekends but all he does is bring her down stairs and turn on the TV so he can fall back to sleep on the couch.

good luck

UMMM this sounds alot like my dh. 3 kids later he has changed about 4 diapers, and 3 of them were on the last kid. My dh doesn't do bedtime either and the house is usually in chaos if I leave. Basically I do daily care and cleaning and he plays with them. I am at home though so if you work too I think he needs to pitch in more.

Well I think there are all levels of normal depending on what other women expect their husbands to do and what other husbands expect to do around the house. It sounds like he doesn't expect anything of himself as a father. He doesn't think that he has to change diapers (why not, he created your children, why not take part in changing diapers?). I would be extremely upset too that my baby was still in the high chair two hours later, but to his credit, the baby was happy so he didn't want to change that. My husband often lets our kids stay up later than I would - I don't think some men realize that putting them to bed later will not result in them sleeping in later!

Here is what my husband does around the house - he's home Mon-Thurs while I'm at work and the kids are at daycare. He does the dishes (emptying the dishwasher and refilling it) most days, he makes dinner and washes/dries clothes. He does not fold or put them away - just something he doesn't do and I am okay with that. If I want something else done (vacuuming, toliets cleaned, etc) I just ask him or leave him a note asking him to do it.

He picks up the kids usually 2x a week and will feed them a snack. At bath time, I put them in but if I want to do something, I ask him to sit with them. He'll usually offer to take the baby out and get him dressed while I finish up with our daughter. I put them to bed but if I ask him, he'll put our son to bed. My daughter mostly wants me to put her to bed and I don't mind doing that! In the middle of the night, I usually check on the kids if they wake up but if I nudge him, he'll go and check on him.

As far as letting the kids stay up later on nights when you are gone, or him not changing the diaper as fast as you want him to, I would let that go. Obviously putting him to bed in a full diaper is not okay - this would really bother me! If I were you, I would tell him that the baby is really tired and needs to be in bed by X time. And if he lets the kids stay up later, call him and tell him you want to tell the kids goodnight since it's their bedtime.

I am glad you are going to counseling but it sounds like the two of you need to communicate. Sometimes guys don't do things because they aren't forced to because we as women just do what they are not doing. But in my opinion, we are equal partners in our relationship therefore we should do things equally around the house and with the kids. Last night I went out and got my hair cut and colored, hubby picked up the kids and took them to McDonalds so he didn't have to cook/clean up. That was fine with me but I thought they needed more than cheeseburgers so I gave them applesauce when I got home. Sometimes my husband will make a comment about how he can't do something when I'm not home and he's there with both kids but I just remind him that I did that for almost three years while he worked Mon-Fridays nights and I did it all - cleaning, cooking, taking care of the kids, etc.

I'd say sit him down and talk with him honestly. Tell him what you expect of him as a husband and father. Ask him what he thinks he should do and what he expects out of you!

I didn't read your other responses. For me, this is normal. My husband will play with the kids or put them in front of the tv for large amounts of time, does not clean or get them ready for bed, even if I am gone at bedtime.

As far as dishes, my dh has never done the dishes. I am guessing, without reading, that a lot of other moms are complaining about your husband, especially the diapering part and not getting the baby out of the chair. I would be upset about that, but not about the fort in the living room, or the mess, or the fact that the dad is still in the area with the kids and he is watching them.

From the sound of your husband, if he is like mine, you can never boss my husband around or tell him what to do. Everything that my husband does has to be his way and his idea. Not all men are like that. All men have different personalities. Mine has a very aggressive, manly, stubborn, free-spirited person. I had to learn how to be married to him.

I just appreciate him for what he is. When I say my husband is a good father, it is because he loves his kids, he is kind and affectionate to them, he provides for them, he doesn't yell. But he does not spend tons of time with them, do any chores for them, or clean. I still think he is great and I love him very much. My attitude is gratitude.

PS I am like Sarah S's response - same expectations (none) so happy if something gets done, not mad if it doesn't. Also, my Dh is military so he is gone for one year and I am doing everything by myself.

haha! I could be reading about my husband! He is a wonderful guy and a wonderful father- but bed time is not important to him and if I am out I know when I get home the kids will still be up and the house will most likely be a mess- but I know the kids love spending time with their dad even though sometimes all they do is watch him play a video game(especially if it's been a long day for DH and he is trying to unwind)
I have just accepted that I am the one who will put the kids to bed. Granted, if I am out of the house for the night- he will put the kids to bed.
My kids love making forts out of our couch cushions and every pillow in the house- this usually happens after I have spent the entire day cleaning the house- they feel it is their duty to mess it back up.
I just realize that we have different parenting styles. And my DH doesnt' like to change diapers either- so he will bribe my 10 yr old to do it for him- that doesn't 'always go so well!
So I guess it just comes down to, do you want to fight about this all the time? or can you accept that some things you feel are important(bed on time and clean house) are not as important to your husband and not a priority for him. I have also come back to our baby in her high chair where she was when I left hours before- but, although she is a mess, she is not fussy or unhappy so my husband left her there(he was in the same room) and he would get her down if she was fussy.
If this is something that is just going to get under your skin- then talk to your husband about it. Before you leave, let your older boys know what they are expected to do(jammies on after dinner, clear your plates and brush your teeth) and then tell your husband what you told your kids they have to do so he can make sure they do it. If he needs it written down so he doesn't' forget- write it down for him. Be nice about it- not bossy and then it's up to you for getting them in bed- either let your husband know- bedtime is at 8 and they need to be in bed or they are really cranky the next day- or as long as they are ready for bed, I will tuck them in when I get home.
Good luck!
`C.

There are varying levels of fathers just as there are varying levels of mothers. I would not be ok with this type of behavior from my husband. However, I know of moms who don't do much more than that either. In my opinion, that is not parenting. That is barely supervising. My husband is a very hands-on dad. He has no problem doing things around the house or with the kids. However, that doesn't mean he notices everything that needs to be done. Men and women are just different.

A few things came to mind when I read your post.

1) How was your husband raised? Did his mom do all the work or was his dad involved? Has he had a positive male role-model?

2) You mentioned that it is rare that you go out and your husband is with the kids. If that's the case, then he probably doesn't know what to do, like he said. I didn't know what to do when I first became a parent, but I learned because I had to. He hasn't had to yet. I could be way off here, but it sounds to me like his reading is his escape. He does notice the chaos, but he doesn't know how to handle it (which is why I think he finally put the baby to bed in your example). I don't know if you are comfortable with this, but I think the best thing you could do is go away for a weekend (take the baby if you prefer), and let him deal with the consequences of his actions. A few hours away is only long enough to create a mess you have to clean up. A few days away allows for the chips to fall. Eventually, he will realize dishes and clothes don't wash themselves and kids need to be fed and have adequate rest. You could even leave him with a schedule of your typical day so he has something to go off. If you are not comfortable with that, then try to get him more involved or give him assignments when you are home so he learn what do to -- like training someone to take your job when you are leaving.

3) If your oldest is 6, this is a long habit he has formed. Maybe it has been a battle the entire way or maybe now it is finally getting to you. Either way, it's going to take some time for him to change.

I think it's great you are seeing a counselor. It sounds like you are trying to be open-minded and fair, which hopefully is reciprocated by your husband. Good luck!

So I wonder what is average too but here is my two cents. In my home, it took a few years to get my husband to 'get' bedtime. His childhood was very disorganized and unscheduled.
Still, when I am gone he does VERY little but over time, he has gotten better. (regular meals for the kids...even if he's not hungry etc.)
When you said "he says he didn't "know what to do" with the kids besides what he did." It may be very well true.
We learn so much from how our parents did it. It sounds like you may need to 'teach' your husband how to parent.

he is kinda normal but also sounds depressed. so the kids built a fort my so would have ignored that too. at the same time 2 hrs in a high chair is too long my so would never have done that. but at the same time the baby was safe and apperently playing with his food he was happy so no harm done. now if he had been screaming for 2 hours my answer on that would have been diffrent. this is both right and wrong but more wrong than right. sounds like his meds arent right. thats my opinion.

I'm so sorry for your situation. . . that would really be tough. My husband is a great dad and although the house isn't as clean as I'd like it to be, or the dishes done the way I want them, he helps all the time so I don't complain. He changes diapers, does baths, cooks when I'm running late or if I have something special to take care of. I would say that most of my friend's husbands are equally as involved. To me this is normal. I will be interested to read other people's responses.

Everybody has a different threshold (my husband works outside the home very hard so I try to cut him a lot of slack but he still helps however he can) and it sounds like your husband's behavior does not fit your threshold! Frankly, it doesn't fit mine, either. Leaving kids in dirty diapers because you don't "do" diapers is neglectful.

Can I offer you some resources? One is to suggest taking a parenting class with your husband. With, because it may provoke less defensiveness if you say you want to go, too, rather than saying he needs to go. And a class because sometimes if people hear things from a third party it is easier to implement change than if a family member says (this is maddening, but I find it true--whenever a doctor says something about my daughter's health hubby takes it much more seriously than if I say something, for example).

Also, I don't know what your hubby's diagnosis is, but is getting support from your local NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) group an option? A lot of times they have support group for spouses, so that you can get some support and don't have to be all alone in living with someone with a mental health disorder.

I'm with you. It sounds very frustrating and like you are a single parent even though you technically have a co-parent. I hope you are able to resolve something.

I know you have a lot of responses and I didn't have time to read them all, but just wanted to add a little. This has been touched on, but I thought I'd tell you my experience. I have always thought my husband was wonderful, but still got frustrated when I came home after finally getting out for a while and felt like it was chaos when I walked in the door. Then, I read something about men being different then women and how we can't expect them to read our minds. It turned out that my husband never felt like I thought he did anything right, so he didn't even want to try. I realized then that when he would try to help out on his own, I would often take over because he didn't do it the way I would. I finally let go a little, but also let him know what I needed help with. For example at night, I would ask him to help with the baths, not just assume that he would come and help because he knew they needed to be done. Then, when he did help, I didn't try to correct him, but just let him do it his way. I did find out the hard way though that I needed to ask nicely rather than sarcastically. Nobody wants to help when they feel they are being attacked. :) It has taken time, but my husband is very helpful now and it is easier to talk about what I need help with because he doesn't feel like I'm saying he's a bad dad all the time.

Good luck with the mental health issue. I grew up with a mother that was bipolar and it was incredibly difficult on both my father and my mother, but also for us kids. I commend you for sticking with him. I know my parents thought many times about divorce, but have made it to a point now where my mom's meds are working well and they are both happier than they have ever been. Our family is stronger and closer because of that particular trial and I can see the blessings that have come from working through something so difficult. I hope you find something that works for you and your family. Best wishes!

First thing that sticks in my head is "WHAT......HE DOESNT DO DIAPERS!!! oh hell no. He should be changing his babies diapers, I mean what the hell is he thinking letting his own child sit in a wet diaper! I would damn sure he changes his attitude along with diapers.
He should have the kids in pjs and teeth brushed and in bed. I think its lazy of a man not to do this. My husband tried this one and I told him I better not come home to kids running wild. He is a grown man and should know what to do.
My husband has been trained well. It took a while for him to know what to do. But now he knows. When all three were younger I had a routine, he knew the routine. I told him if I had to leave to please make sure things were done. He turned into a pro. Also its not worth listening to me if I came home and got pissy. I mean keeping a child in the high chair would have really made me mad also.
I left a list at first what needed to be done. They do catch on. LOL!! He does need to help you more. You can do what I did also. When my husband got cocky and thought he did not have to do anything acting like he was king of the castle. I only washed the childrens clothes and mine. I only made dinner for the kids and me , we ate before he came home. It sounds like a mean thing to do, but husbands really have realize how much we truly do. Good luck!

Eh, I don't think your husband from the story you've posted is much different than the average dad. Are there some better, sure sounds like it from the posts, but is he TERRIBLE, no, it sounds like he is trying.

I think in this scenario, because I only have this to work with, it sounds as though, like me you assume your husband should know what to do. And maybe he (or mine) should most of the time. But, it doesn't hurt to lay out the general plans to him when your leaving or in any scenario. (Especially, if he's not used to doing the routine on his own.) It also doesn't hurt to ask for help. I myself, have a hard time asking for help. Instead, I let the anger build up inside me, until I explode one day. Its not pretty for anyone. For me, its hard to to comprehend why my husband thinks its ok to sit and relax after work when there are dishes to be done, things to be picked up and so on. I am not saying I'm perfect at these things but I've learned that I expect things to be done my way, or they aren't right. (My mom was very much like this, and still is) So, I've learned I've got to let things go, and I have to ask for more help, give clear directions and assume less. Then I have to pick and choose my battles. Is everything perfect when I do this no, but it definitely helps.

Next time you go out, communicate your needs and wants concerning the kids or anything else around the house. See, if that helps? Good luck!

all of us moms are there with you. my husband is wonderful in certain areas. for instance helping our oldest son study for his test and helping with his homework. he does most of the time back me up with discipline...most of the time.
my mom said my dad would watch us and feed us ( my parents are happily married) ice cream for dinner and lecture my mom where were you I had to feed the kids ice cream for dinner. years later when my little brother was born. my dad became a much more attentive dad. he was always loving and would never tolerate a messy house.
my husband works full time and i am full time with the kids. he has said to me to many times to count "what did you do today" which makes me think he thinks i just sit around eating chocolate all day.
when we just had one child my husband would say C. let me give you a break ( i was not doing anything fun..i was cleaning the kitchen or the laundry) he would NOT get up from his chair ' do me a favor" could you get me the diapers" " do me a favor could you get the wipes" " do me a favor could you get his bottle" where was my break??? there is nothing wrong with his legs.
hang in there..clean it up. when your calm i would write your husband a letter. include positve things and things you could expect from each other. for example when one of you are watching the kids whomever is watching the kids should be able to straighten up the area the kids messed up. The baby changed and in bed. Sometimes men need to know what is expected ..he could be completely clueless on this issue. good luck

That sounds exactly like my sister's husband. He doesn't do anything unless she specifically tells him to do it and then she has to supervise whether its housework or the kids. She freqently remarks that he
'forgets" he has children when he is supposed to be watching them. He also retreats behind a book or the television. Same thing, she comes home, the kids are not ready for bed and the house is a mess. As you know, there is no such thing as average. For some men that is average, but still unacceptable. I would be more concerned about the kids being taken care of then the house being a mess. It is unacceptable to leave a baby in a dirty diaper (what's the baby supposed to do? Change it himself? Your husband is grown-up for crying out loud! Sometimes that involves doing things we would really rather not do because those are our responsiblities!) I agree with some other posters who advised going over with him what needs to be done at least for the children while you are out of the house. As an FYI, my sister has never been able to get her husband to help out more and they have been married 12 years. I

I think all of us moms/wives yearn for the ideal man who is our counterpart.. who knows what to do and how to do it and does it with aplomb! Reality says otherwise, and you can see how this happens since mens brains are wired differently. They don't see efficiency and multi-tasking the way we do, their priorities are different (theirs is more self-centered, ours is more family-centered)... so it's no wonder we get angry a lot when it comes to our expectations for our husbands. That said, your husband seems depressed and does need to be evaluated. I say this with unfortunate experience in the same arena... my husband is a war vet who also had a dysfunctional upbringing, and his moods swing all the time. He's moody-broody and non-participant in our lives quite often. It's sad, really. I urge him to see the doctor to change or boost up his "happy pills" so that we can at least see somewhat of a normal guy around the house. But it is hard. Sad. Bummer all around. If you need to vent or talk, email me anytime.

I too would have given my hubby an earful when I got home, more about the little one in the highchair for two hours! Ugh! Anyways, what I learned with my hubby is he needed to be 'trained' on how to care for our daughter. From day one, I hands on showed him how to change diapers, feed her, etc. The only thing I didn't show him was how to bathe her. I think, at least in my case, men have to be shown how to care for children, its not instinct as it is for women, IMO. Also, he needs to spend one on one time with the kids to put his 'training' into action, just like a job. Start off slow, leaving for an hour or so, short trips out. Regardless of if your a SAHM, or work full-time, Mom's do more then Dad's usually with the kids, so we need our breaks too, and you should be able to count on your hubby & he should hold up his end. My daughter is now 3, and I'm happy to say, my husband does VERY well with her when I'm gone.

My husband is not considered the norm. Especially a generation ago. My f-i-l would be exactly how your husband is. My m-i-l said that whenever the children cried he would elbow her and wake her up and tell her to get the kid. He would not even lift his finger to help his children when they were little and when they were older just barked orders for chores and did not attend any of my husband's activities.

Fast-forward to my husband: Before we had kids I told him that I wanted our house to be where when he comes home the kids get very excited, yell daddy's home, and run and jump in his arms, and by doing that he had to be very involved. When our kids were babies he would change their diapers and then bring them to me to nurse. He would swaddle them afterwards and put them in their cribs. He makes sure he plays with the kids and if there is a project he needs to get done he either gives the kids a specific job to do to help or he gives them something similar to do. For example he does leather work, so he sets them up at the work table with their own little piece of scrap leather and tools that they can pound while he does his own work. At bedtime I get them in their jammies and ready for bed, he will go into their rooms and read them a story. After they have fallen asleep either I or he will make sure they are covered before we go to bed.
As far as housework I have given everyone, including him, chores that must be completed on a specific day. That doesn't always happen, infact I get very frustrated when he doesn't do his chores, but unless it is weeks on end I don't say anything and just do them. He works for the government so I generally have no idea when he is coming home, and I cannot contact him during the day. My kids are 4 y/o twins and a 7 y/o They each have chores to help around the house. The kids start getting chores when they are 3. It is not hard stuff to do, just so that they are prepared to be responsible when they get older and in school and as adults.

You also need to remember, men cannot multi-task for nothing, and since he says he won't take care of the baby, then maybe you need to take the baby with you on your outings. Put your baby in jammies if you are going out at night and let him fall asleep in his carseat. Give your husband specific directions on what you need him to do and be happy if he has accomplished half of it. You will come home to a wrecked house, your kids will be in chaos, and you will be lucky if they all have their jammies on and correct. My husband is not perfect and yes, I come home to chaos if I go out alone and sometimes I come home to a huge surprise to where the floors have been mopped. Just make sure you reward him for the things he does and he will start to do more. Like: "Thank you for getting little johnny's jammies on and doing the dishes, I really appreciate that." Don't tell him the things he did wrong that night, unless it endangered the kids, and next time you'll be surprised... You might have 2 in jammies!

Your DH did dishes, probably because you've nagged him enough about the fact that dishes need to be done. With the kids, does he know what to do? If you're the one tending to them all day, and he doesn't, it's not instinctive for him to know when bed time is, how to play with an infant, etc.

Personally, I'd make notes like you would for a babysitter.

My DH is not incompetent, but if I don't lay out what the expectations are for the kids, he flat out doesn't know. He works a lot and just isn't there for the every day, all day interactions with the kids. So when they were little and couldn't tell him if they were hungry, needed to be changed, etc I would lave a list of things which he needed to follow. Now that they are older, he has more of a clue because the kids can say they're hungry or tired, etc.

So fast forward to now: he's the one up with the kids in the morning and gets them to school when I'm at work. I do dinner and bedtime since he works late. So he's involved, but only so much, his primary duty to the family is his work. GL!

Hire a babysitter while he is there.
Write down specifically what he is supposed to do,.
Call him at times to remind him to get baby in bed or boys ready.
Tell him other men do the diapers, bedtime routine, wash dishes, clean the kitchen.
Men reallly don't just know unless they have been in a huge family where they had to help with younger siblings. They have to be taught.
When he does what is on the list give positive feedback. And don't expect him to do more than what you put down.

In our house I can be a tyrant so my hubby does whatever he can to try to make me happy. On the flipside also do for him, but I never put up with BS. And yes mine changed diapers, put to bed, read stories, gave bandaids.

Hi S. L.

I do think this is normal. My children's father used to be the same way however once I openned my to tell him that he could do better with our child when I am out or away itvwas more like a compromise. Once I explained to him why I would snap off when it did happened. It was a dream come true. Now, depends on if we are at his house or mine when it is bedtime if I haven't spoken up to our child he WILL. What I think is sone father's see us mother's keeping the children on schedule that when we as mothers do get the alone, me or any other time without the children the father's think that the children should get a break as well and if that means run around wild, ramsack the house, or etc they get this chance only a few times and if they are happy why bother them because when mom comes home all access is not granted, sort to speak lol. I definitely say it is normal yet if you want a little change from dad all you may have to do is ask not snap and I'm pretty sure it will get done. Good luck!!