Advice on 3 1/2 Year Old Behavior Problem

Hi,

I recently attended a workshop and the presenter said that just "saying sorry" doesn't make a tot remorseful. It is just words. Rather, make the child make amends for his actions. Make it better. Kiss the other child. Hand the child a kleenex or bandaid for the owie. Hope this helps.

H.

I'm no expert at all. I suggest that you read books that look at the situation differently than you do, just to see if there is another way to see it. You are clearly in a power struggle with him over these words, and it won't do you any good to keep it up. Look for a whole different way to approach the situation. I don't think he has a behavior problem from what you say. He sounds like a normal active boy. I have one, so I know a little. I would skip the insistence on the specific words. Decharge the situation. You say he knows that he has made a wrong choice - that's really enough. The words will come later, and will actually mean something when he decides to say them for himself. If you lay off this word requirement, and instead get him to work on saying something like, "I really wanted to play with that toy" as an explanation then I would consider it victory.

It's not great to set up these long battles -break the logjam somehow. You say he is stubborn, and I would guess that you are very stubborn as well. Not trying to be a jerk - I've gone down this path myself and had big battles with my son - we're both stubborn as well. It's WAY BETTER to sidestep the same battle you've had a hundred times.

Good luck!

Dear H., I began my daycare/preschool program when my son was 9 mos. old, always having him be the youngest. It was difficult teaching him to share me with the other children, in his house, with his toys, etc. At around 2-1/2, he began acting out; hitting the other kids, saying mean things, anything negative to get my attention. Also, a very strong willed child, much like your 3-1/2 year old sounds. We started by 2 mornings a week, next door with grandma for his own special time. At age 3-1/2, we finally made the decision to send him to his own preschool to make his own friends, learn to behave for others in a new environment. Fortunately, I had a very dear friend in the same business. It was the best decision we ever made. He was so excited to go to school, play with new friends and make wonderful crafts and projects. He was a totally different child. This may not be in the cards for you either financially or having someone you know and really trust, but its worth looking into. Because of the age difference in your children,he doesn't have a playmate, but someone who takes time away from him. He's wanting your "undivided" attention, which obviously you can not always give. Allow for his own special time ie; an afternoon or two a week with grandma or auntie for one on one time or a close friend with a child the same age. By allowing him to build realtionships with other children his age, he will also learn the important development stages of separation from you, sharing, making friends and learning to behave for others, all very worthwhile skills to ready him for the big step to Kindergarten. I have had my business for 23 years now, and I have seen this proven time and time again as I encourgage other parents to make the first step in bringing their children to me. I have told this story over and over and it has proven to be so valuable. Best of luck to you and your little ones.
Miss M. / Rose Family Preschool / Lakeport, Ca.

Any book on "Active Parenting" would probably be useful. Or a book called "Love and Logic" is very good.

Sounds like your little boy is testing to see who's in control... so far it looks like HE is. Stop letting him be in charge of the length of the time out (and I'd move them out of his room which should be a safe, comfortable place for sleep or play).

Designate a corner for time out and don't use it for anything else. Limit his time outs to one minute per year of age and end them by going to him and saying "I put you on time out because you _______. In this family we _____." Give him a hug and help him find something appropriate to get involved in.

Good luck.

T.

Not sure if someone has already mentioned this book but I HIGHLY recommend Setting Limits with Your Strong-Willed Child by Robert MacKenzie. Perfect for stubborn children. The author lives in the Scramento area and I have heard him speak a couple of times. His methods make perfect sense.

Here is a review of the book.

shttp://www.keepkidshealthy.com/reviews/parenting_books/se...

Read these reviews on Amazon. Scroll to the bottom of the page:
http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Limits-Your-Strong-Willed-C...

He talks about being clear, firm, and direct. Children want limits and it is our responsibility to give them those limits in a respectful way so that they can learn proper behaviors. The consequense needs to be appropriate and needs to be given immediatley (not later when you get home!) to get the message across.

I can't really even explain it. You just need to read it and it will make so much sense! I am BEGGING you to give it a try! Worth every penny! It is the only thing that worked for my daughter! Such a differnece. The stress level in our house has gone down dramatically.

~L.

Our oldest has ADHD and is the king of strong-willed behavior like that. He also went through a long stretch where he wouldn't say sorry, so I can relate to your frustration very well.

One of the techniques we learned through the behavioral therapist helping him is to take away things. Time-outs don't do much for strong-willed kids (except allow them to cool down when angry). However, taking away a prized possession can work quite well. Make it dramatic, too. "If you don't say sorry, I'm taking away all of your trains." Then don't give lots of chances, do it after the first chance. If you're at a place like a park, threaten to leave if he doesn't say sorry, then do it if he refuses.

Our son knows we're serious now, so we often just have to say the consequences and he'll do the right thing. He even says sorry now, so there's hope for your son, too. :)

Good luck!

I think I'm missing something here. Saying sorry doesn't *mean* he's sorry. At 3 1/2 I doubt whether he really knows what "sorry" actually means. By forcing him to say "sorry" all that's doing is teaching him to say a word that will get him out of "trouble". At 3 1/2 they know how to manipulate in that manner. Making him sit in a time out for extended periods of time is ineffectual in teaching him not to repeat unacceptable behavior. Stubborn mama = stubborn boy - it just becomes a test of wills with no real meaning. I agree with Michelle J. Show him what the consequences of unacceptable behavior are. Take away the toy, leave the park, no desert, no story - whatever he likes to do. Explain to him that his behavior is NOT acceptable and that's the reason that is toy is gone or whatever you decide. Explain what being "sorry" really means. Ask him how he would feel if someone treated him the way he's treating others. Ex: ask him if it would make him mad or upset if daddy kicked and screamed because he was sitting next to daddy etc. I find that sometimes literally showing them how it feels when someone grabs a toy or book out of their hand works well also. They are quite surprised that you did it and they can relate to the feelings. Good luck, it will work out.

I have a 13 year old daughter that was just like that. It is difficult. I believe in spanking so I used this approach with her. She was stubborn, but I NEVER let her get away without saying sorry. It is so important to be able to admit when we are wrong. A realy good book with creative ways to train is called Creative Corection by Lisa Whelchel. Stay consistant and it will get better.
Something I have used with my 5 year old son is teaching him daily what a good man is and what he does or doesn't do, and comparing his behavior to that of Daddy's. So Good Men save girls. they don't bite, hit, yell, spit or hurt girls. I ask him if he has seen Daddy do the bad behavior which the answer is no. Train him to want to be a good man like Daddy. He repeats the conditions of a good man to me regularly and when he fails I remind him, "Does a good man do this?". He really desires to be like Dad. Hope this helps.
Stac

Hi H.,

It sounds like you must be a very loving and patient mommy :O) Well, just FYI, I have 2 boys, and they can say sorry very nicely, so it can be taught. We just need to help you figure out how :O)

Do you raise your voice to your boys? It almost sounds like you are very "nice" and do not raise your voice to sound serious enough. I don't think your boys are taking you seriously. I think it's time to show them "who's the Boss". You don't need to YELL at them, just change your "mom tone" to be serious.....we all have it in us :o)

It sounds like you have 2 issue's. The first one is behavioral (grabbing, etc...), and the 2nd one is remorse, or lack of. They seem like they go together, but your son needs them seperated for awhile. This way you can focus on the behavorial problem, then hopefully the "sorry" feelings will come naturally.

1st off, find a new time-out step/chair within your eye's reach. Then focus on giving your son 3 reasonable warnings, like "Son, you will not grab toys from other people's hands,you need to use your words and ask nicely to play with it....next time you are not nice to your friends, you will sit in time-out". Then, "Son, this is your second warning...." while you're showing 2 fingers and repeating what he SHOULD'VE done. Always remind him that he is headed for a time-out. This gives him a chance to hopefully make a better "choice".

If the time-outs do not work, then you will need to take something else away, like when everybody else goes out to play, he has to sit and watch in a chair, or whatever you can think of that will hopefully reduce the need to misbehave.

This consistency will take a week or so to see any difference. But your son is almost 4, and needs to learn how to keep his frustrations to himself and not to others. Otherwise, you are headed for the Principal's office in a couple of years.

Simply teach (or re-teach) him how to use his words to express himself. If you are close enough to him, then you can always hear him, and help him BEFORE it gets physical. This will take alot of focus on your son, which will probably be difficult, but it is very necessary.

When he does the "right" things, don't forget to hug him with praise. Hopefully he'll want more of those and choose to be good all of the time :O)

Good Luck, H.. I hope some of this helps you :O)

~N.

Seems like you have several problems. I think "Miss Martha" is right, your own son shouldn't be in your daycare with other kids. There are just too many layers of feelings to sort out, when you try to discipline your own child in a group of others' children.

However, I also think that teaching him to say he is "sorry" is a large waste of energy at this age. He won't understand what "sorry" means until he has learned that he can hurt others if he smashes into them, just like they can hurt him, and that you do not allow him to snatch toys from others, just as you don't allow others to snatch toys from him. And be aware that little boys tend to love to smash into each other--- it's usually not "accidental."

I think you have a MUCH, MUCH more serious problem with him kicking his father. That needs to stop RIGHT NOW! It's really shocking that you've let it go this far. If you don't believe in spanking then you'd better figure something else out PDQ, or you will have a huge problem on your hands, which will get worse as he gets older. I would pull over to the side of the road and give him a good spanking, but I realize not everyone believes in spanking. Whatever you do, you must let him know IMMEDIATELY that he cannot EVER put his hands on his parents.

Take a Positive Discipline....contact Franny Minnervini in Sebastopol.###-###-####.
P.

Hi!

I just have one comment. It sounds like your son is probably enjoying staying in his room, so that's not really an incentive for changing his behavior. If you're doing a time-out, make it someplace where he can't entertain himself, and then the time-out should be more like 3-5 minutes.

Good luck!

I started to read other responses first, but decided to simply give my own opinion... which is, that I don't really like the idea of teaching children to say "I'm sorry"... why? Because first of all, at 3 1/2 years of age, they really aren't and don't have a grasp of the concept. Rather than teach an empty, meaningless phrase for them to say every time they hurt someone, stop them, point out that what they did hurt the other child, made the child sad, whatever fits the circumstance. Then teach your child to give them a hug to make them feel better, sit with them until they feel better, etc. Give your child a positive response to a negative situation.
The statement by your son that 'boys don't say I'm sorry' seems rather odd considering his age. It sounds like you have older children either in your daycare, or somewhere in your son's contacts with neighbors, friends or relatives, who are giving him this type of language. I'd be on the lookout for the source of that, and try to deal with it both with your boy and, if possible, with the other child. You don't want him getting the what boys do vs what girls do idea at this age for sure. Again, stress the positive rather than the negative... tell your son something like, "boys who are strong do apologize and make things right when they hurt someone"; and if you do find another child has given him this idea about boys not saying sorry, stress with that child (or children) that they are teachers of the younger children too and need to be sure what they teach is positive. If you find this is coming from kids who simply don't care, you might have to eliminate them from your son's acquaintance circle.

H.,

I don’t know how many children you care for in addition to your own, but I really don’t think you should be running a day care if you think a 3-hour time out is appropriate for a 3 year old.

When a child kicks, hits, or bites, they should be immediately restrained and removed from the situation. (If you are in a car, this might mean pull over at the next, closest exit). If this happens in the daycare atmosphere, have him sit in a chair, so he can see the other children playing nicely together. Give him 3 -5 min timeouts and put him back in timeouts if he doesn't behave--but never 3 hours in a row (even if it's self-imposed).

I don’t know where he learned at 3.5 years that “boys don’t say sorry”, but I suggest your husband nip that one in the bud ASAP. If you feel this came from a family member or close friend---ditto!

As for being consistent, continue to be consistent, but do this is 3 min to 5 min increments…..Not three hours.

Lastly, your 3.5 year old’s behavior seems a bit over the top, so he may need counseling. Having said that, before you make an appointment, try treating him like a three year old instead of grounding a teenager.

Blessings…..

There are many positive decipline books out there. Two authors that I remember are Mary Sheedy Kuricinka (sp?)- Highly spirited child and by Scott - How to Negotiate with kids. Other books: 123 magic, how to talk to your kids. The gist of these books is that 'if you do this then I will....' statements are not positive but threatening and 'as soon as you do this, we can go out' is better and effective. Kids learn from our behavior around them and with others, not by our dictation to them on what is right. What is right for them, should be right for us too. If we say sorry enoght, when we make mistakes and are respectful with each other, kids observe that. You can calmly tell him in objective way that it is not okay to hit. In our home, it is not acceptable. I am sending you to room becaue we don't feel safe with you right now. Hitting hurts. You are feeling very angry right now and you need some time to calm down. We can talk about it when you are ready. You can also quickly redirect him to another activity to diffuse his anger,or use humor to divert attention such as I can't see my other ear, can you help me find it. Or make him feel important by saying, can you show your little brother, how to play this. He would love if you teach him. I could go on but you know what I mean. Hope it helps.
-Rachna

Hello H.,

It sounds like your little boy is very angry. Have you asked him what is wrong or why he is so mad?

Two things that I think we don't do enough of is talk to our kids like they are regular people and comfort them when they are upset. If you were really mad about something (even if it was just as simple as not getting your own way) how would you want the people around you to act? What would you want them to say?

The fact that he was mad about you not sitting with him kind of shows that he feels like he needs you right now. I have kids the exact ages as yours; a 3 1/2 year old boy and a 10 month old daughter. I also work from home. I have found that it has worked wonders to spend alone time with my son on a regular basis. We go bowling or bike riding or I let him come to the grocery store with me and I make a big deal out of him picking out his own Popsicles and talking about how baby is too young to have any so they are all for him. We always have fun. It has really helped mellow him out.

Please do not respond to his hurting and frustration by hitting him like some of the responders here have advised, especially when you are trying to tell him not to hit others. I mean, that really doesn't make any sense does it?

Good luck to you, this parenthood business is very difficult.

Some good ideas so far. Is it possible to wait until he's 5 to really push the "sorry" idea? He's still young, and you guys are getting into a huge battle over a word. When kids force you to battle that long, guess who's in charge. It's not you.

I completely believe in teaching kids to say sorry, especially because I had to train my husband to say sorry, since apparently no one else ever did it.

But when a child forces you to battle so much, even when he is in time out he is still the one in control. So I would take the power out of the word "sorry" for a while, by not insisting on it.