I guess I always side with the porn, for the lack of a better phrase, is that it really isn't the porn to me that is the problem. Yeah therapists can say well he is adicted to porn and subsituting it for sex and intimacy but that really isn't what is happening. It is far more complicated than that. Maybe they do that to simplify, who knows.
Ignoring the porn, your issue is he would rather have sex with himself than with you. This is bad, very bad. He has admitted this is a problem but seems unable to change. Bad as well. You have been more than patient but I think you have reached the point where you have tried everything. I think you should think of yourself now, you have tried with him.
Another bit of advice, take it for what it is worth, to get better responses you may want to pull the porn out of future questions. As you can see from your responses it is a strange and polarized subject. At least in my opinion it has no bearing on the issue. Straight up masterbation at that level is an issue, what he uses to get his ya yas doesn't matter.
Nikki, I am w/ you on this one 110%.
You certainly have my support. And of course you did not drive him to this! Ridiculous! Your DH has an addiction. He could probably be married to one of those porn stars and still have this issue!
This has never been a issue in my marriage. DH feels the same way I do about porn. So all I can say is that if I were hypothetically in this situation, and I had given it to God, and DH was still hurting his family...I would have to think about at least leaving for a while. Which would be very hard for me as I do not have the means to support my family. So hard to say what I would do...
Only God can change your husbands heart. Maybe my story will give you a glimmer of hope:
My mother was a devout Christian and my father called himself a atheist (think he was more agnostic though). To make a long story short, my father became physically abusive to my mom and ended up having a lengthy affair while away on weekly business trips. My mom stayed. At the time I desperately wanted them to divorce. God changed my dad's heart. Sunday is their 35th anniversary. And I am fortunate that my parents are still married.
IDK Nikki, such a awful position to be in. Heartbreaking.
I will pray. If you need to talk to someone who completely supports you... :)
Your story sounds almost identical to my friend who is in the process of divorce because this addiction cost her husband several jobs and a sound marriage. All I can say to you is that you personally need to make a decision and seek group support with women who have gotten divorced and moved on. 10 years is long enough to address this issue. For my friend it got so bad that she found her soon to be ex writing fantasy stories about her female friends. Just plain sickening. I can see your heart aches. You truly deserve better and I am so sorry you are going through this...I have to tell you as an outsider looking in that my friend who is almost freed from this situation..has never been more calm and at peace. They have a 5 year old daughter. She has been stronger and smiles so much more and has a clearer direction and positive outlook on her future then when she was married...to the dead weight. No more excuses for him. She has empowered herself with God's help to move forward. While I am not an advocate of divorce...sometimes it is necessary. She did the right thing and I am proud of her.
Try this exercise.... remove the whole notion of pornography from your diatribe. You are still left with a husband who breaks promises, doesn't provide for his family, and takes advantage of you as a provider and fails to satisfy your physical needs. Whether or not there is anybody else (or anything else), is he really there in your relationship? It seems he is more than willing to pay you lip service when it comes to keeping your relationship together, but is he really putting in any work? Sounds to me like the marriage is dying, if not dead. If porn is the murder weapon .
I totally can relate to your story and understand completely where you are coming from because I live your life too but just different scenarios. My husband too has an addiction to porn and our relationship has suffered greatly from it. I finally relaized after 14 years of marriage and growing my relationship with God that its an addiction that I or him cannot deal with. It is stronger than what we can handle. My husband is not the type of christian man he needs to be. Therefore as a wife I feel forsaken from his leadership, his guidance, his support. However, I understand that I chose him and I have to deal with it as it is. I pray for him and every single woman out there that has a husband needs to pray for him whether or not they feel secure or insecure within the relationship because the enemy is out to destroy and no one is an exception to this-no one. Believers or non-belivers. Furthermore, our men need those prayers because they are faced with so much temptation in this world today and its very easily accessible to them. It can happen to anyone and that is why prayer is so important and not necessarily important that we leave it up to them to do.......its also our job to pray for them. I don't know what the answer is other than prayer. Prayer has helped me with my anger, my resentment, my bitterness, my jealousness, etc. I'm not saying I don't EVER feel those feelings because I do and my heart drops or breaks even further when I know my husband has failed me yet once again and the disappointment sets in. I ask Why am I not good enough for him? I start to judge myself and look at other woman and look at my body compared to what it used to be and no way no how could I ever compare to those women-but that's okay because my body is the way it is because I carried two babies and god blessed me with that and God is dealing with HIM. I don't have to say the snyde remarks anymore, I don't have to deal with any of it anymore because I have let it go and letting God and it will happen in its own time. I am not saying that a person should stay and be miserable but ask God to give you some guidance before you make that decision. I know this is a very religious point of view and take it for what's its worth to you but all I can say is our God is faithful. We can depend upon him when we cannot depend upon others-If he doesn't want to change then its not going to happen and it took me a long time to realize this is beyond me to change in him-it's going to have to happen and come from God and God himself. I have left and packed my kids up because of all of it-didn't matter. It eventually always went back. It always will as long as the addiction is there and needs to be fed. God feeds us what we need when we ask for that help on a daily basis.....don't think there isn't one day that doesn't pass that he isn't going to have to struggle with it but you just have to make that choice every single day. Watch the movie Fireproof-that's exactly what needs to happen to my husband and to yours but I'm still waiting on him to make his move into my husband's heart. I have to be patient and it kinda stinks that I feel like I have to waste all this time waiting but it is for a reason I'm sure. I feel ya on the sex part-he doesn't want it because he has already taken care of himself and yet we are left behind to fend for ourselves yet we remain faithful to them??! Doesn't seem right or fair but God will deal with them-just keep praying.
The decision to leave an addict is one that took me many years to make. Addiction is something I'll never understand, but I did come to a decision to remove myself from the person when he wouldn't or coudn't overcome the addiction. My main motivators were my daughter, and my own life goals.
My ex was addicted to marijuana during our entire 20+ year relationship. Some people will say that pot is not addictive. Yes, it can be for some people. When it takes over a person's life, is more important than relationships, interferes with keeping a job, and exacerbates existing mental health issues, it is an addiction.
Those who say "just put passwords on the computer" are expecting you to be in charge of him, and his behaviors. Just as I couldn't stop my ex's addiction by flushing his latest stash, neither can you by locking a computer. You cannot be his keeper.
If you loved, or still love your husband, as I do my ex, then deciding to leave is worth the time and thought that you've put into this. The hardest thing for me is seeing the things in my ex that attracted me in the beginning, and kept me loving him for years. The addiction becomes the wall between you, or the unwelcome visitor that keeps returning and returning uninvited.
You are a strong woman, and reaching out for help can be so hard. I've found, though, that at the times I've needed support the most, help appears when I ask for it. Friends, acquaintances, a Life Coach have given me bits of advice or major breakthroughs. Something that worked for me: envision your life one year, two years, and five years from now if it was completely up to you to design. Do this often. Envision, then do one small thing each day to make that vision come clear.
my mom (a therapist) has a program called lifestar that is for recovering porn addicts and their wives. look for that in your area. she has helped lots of families turn their lives around and the men she works with become so humble, loving, and wonderful fathers and husbands.
remember that it is an addiction, which is more powerful than personal willpower in many circumstances. the hormones released are a lot more addicting than most drugs and alcohol. in most relationships a man would feel that addiction to his WIFE, so it's a brilliant way to keep a marriage together... but when the addiction is to the "phantom mistress" it's pulling him away. think of it like an addiction, and realize that although he wants to change there are very very powerful physical urges that are really really really hard to resist. I wish i had more advice or help, i wish my mom was in texas she could really help.
You shouldn't have to justify yourself. I'm ok with porn, but my husband would much rather be with me, so it's not a problem for us. Your husband has a problem, he knows he has a problem and he refuses to get help. You deserve better. I'm not one for ultimatums, but I think you should sit down and have a frank discussion with him. It's been 10 years and you deserve better. Either he gives up the porn completely, maybe letting you put some sort of password protected nanny program on the computer if he cant control himself, or he moves out. He needs to keep with his programs, you've done everything you can to help him and to make your marriage work and he's not keeping up his end of the bargain. Keep repeating to yourself "I deserve better. I deserve better." Obviously you can support yourself without him, so luckily you are not financially dependant up on him. You could even try to work your problems through while seperated, maybe he needs that wake up call. But even though I dont view the occasional porn viewing my husband does as cheating, if he were viewing it to the point where he would rather take care of himself before I came home? That's too much like cheating. You deserve better.
I don't know if I have advice. All I can say is that I 100% agree with you. I would NOT be okay with my husband viewing porn. You certainly did NOT drive him to it. It IS an addiction and it DOES cause problems. It twists the beauty of relationships and of what sexual relationships SHOULD be like (in my opinion...others are welcome to their own opinions, of course!).
I just want you to know that I hear you and my heart breaks for you. Maybe I'm old fashioned or maybe I am too romantic...but I don't want my husband fulfilling himself in any sexual way, other than through me. And, I know he feels the same way.
I do believe he's breaking trust in your marriage. Truth is, it doesn't matter if others things it's totally fine and don't understand your problem with it. The fact that YOU don't think it's fine should be a priority to him. My husband has things that are important to him, but they are kind of stupid to me (example, he can't stand it when someone gets in their bed with their clothes on - they have to change into pjs. Do I care? Not really, but for some reason it bothers him! hehe... So, I respect that because it's important to him. it's a bizarre quirk to me, but I'm good with it. Obviously it doesn't compare to your situation...just explaining that people don't always have to understand...but it is okay to respect and stop doing something for the love of someone else). I make his quirky problem important to me because it's important to him.
I honestly have no idea what I would do. It's something I dread ever having to deal with and know one day it might happen because it's a plague with men...and even women now. It's EVERYWHERE.
I just want you to know I hear you and feel for your situation. It sounds like he's stopped trying. If he were willing to do everything that he could to avoid that type of temptation (and go to counseling and programs for it, etc), then it would be obvious he's trying. But it sounds like he's fine with it. That makes it harder.
I think one of the problems is that porn tends to degrade the female body.... is that what he wants for his daughters? To be viewed totally as a sex object?
I'm really sorry you've been put in this position.... I realize men are very visual, but this totally degrades females.
One thing I think I've heard is that the younger the men start, the more likely it will become an addiction. Education against porn addiction needs to start early. With easy access of porn on the internet, it is very easy for teens to view it.
Although it is a very tough decision, it looks like you ARE able to support yourself and your daughters... you are apparently doing that, already. Many women in difficult decisions feel trapped by their feeling that they can't make it without a partner. Unfortunately, your partner is already distancing himself from you.
Again, I'm sorry you've been put in this position. I know others that have been there, also. It is difficult.
Good for you realizing that you have choices!!!
If I was in your position, I think I would tell my husband that you had enough and separate. That way he can see that he no longer has you because of his addiction and he has a choice to try and get help (and stick with it) or keep up with his addiction. Separating will also show you how life could be with out having to worry about your husband and if the big D word has to happen, then it wont be as big of a step then just cold turkey.
This is what I would do. You of course have to do what is best for you and your girls.
(((hugs)))
You are 100% correct in the assumption that those are your choices. Thats not to say that the next man you find will not like porn, the next man might not even agree to counseling, or even think its a problem.
I dont think porns a problem , but i do think lying and breaking promises is.
Look at the man you have right now, if hes not the one you want to keep, you have to move on.
*****everybody has that line in the sand, and this is yours, i totally get it.
Why don't you just cancel the internet service? It sounds rash but if there's no internet how can he look? Also look into computer programs that ban sites with porn, a program that is buried on your computer and only you can access it.. obviously trust is not there so put the software on the computer and let him figure out that it's not gonna be happening anymore, if he fights it then leave. Simple as that. He can't rely on himself to change so he's gonna rely on you to make him so just try that, you really have nothing to loose. I think you can even get some for like $50 bucks.. also ban sites that have website translators so that he can't go to that and get a site name translated to spanish or german so that the it gets around the block.. I figure it's worth a try!
Hi Nikki,
I don't have direct experience with this but I can imagine that by now, you are OVER it.
I agree with Molly in that only YOU can determine whether it's the right thing to stay or go.
I would encourage you to ignore the advice stating :porn is not the issue, blah, blah. As you know, ANY addiction left untreated is chronic and progressive. Who knows? Left untreated, he may fail to finish school, start NEVER leaving the house, never get a "real" job, etc. Those are possible facts of REALITY of any addiction.
With addiction, he needs to "feel" the effects of his choices. Hit HS bottom, so to speak.
You may benefit from bringing his bottom up by giving him a time frame (3-6 mos) to join the recovery group and take an active role in his own recovery and, this, his marriage and family life. I understand you have tried and tried and been disappointed many times. That is not unusual for living with any addict.
BUT it might be worth ONE more chance and ultimatum. Make it specific. Attend 4 meetings per week. Get a sponsor. Or you're gone.
Is there a group for spouses as well? Perhaps Alanon would be a decent substitute. Vow that TODAY, this becomes HIS problem. Not yours. Good luck!
Have you ever heard of http://www.xxxchurch.com ? If not, I would STRONGLY encourage you to check it out. They have a software program called X3 watch pro you can install on all your computers to prevent anyone from viewing porn. It has all sorts of options including accountability partners. ie it sends emails and or texts if someone attempts to view something they should not. I would recommend finding a strong man to be his accountablity partner. Perhaps a pastor, counselor, or a strong christian friend. They must agree on it though. It cannot be done without his approval. But it can be installed on the computer and you be the accountablity partner without his consent. Because he said "I do". That one yes meant many nos. ;) We have it on our computers. I am my husband's accountablity partner. I am also the administrator. I am the only one who knows our log in and password information. X3 watch pro will block sites, let you know if he attempts to view a site, etc. I think it was about $70 for an entire year of protection. XXXchurch is a dynamic ministry, and a massive source of help for those experiencing porn addiction. They have all sorts of resources to help. If you would like to pm me, feel free to. Having said that, I am going to let my hubby share his point of view, as this is something he struggled with for years.
Sister, i come before you in humility. We are the first created and meant to lead. Our help mates are not intended to carry or lead the moral standard. We are meant to uphold. I am sorry to see that you are placed in this position. I know you long for your husband to hold that place of strength and standard and to lead your household. I know that you love him, it is quite clear. I understand his and your position. I began looking at porn at the age of 4. i looked at porn until i was 27. accountability and xxxchurch helped me. my wife, to whom i owe all of the credit to in my sustained victory, enabled me to remain free by her having full disclosure. Our Brides have a strength where we have......none. You are strong and couragous. courage is not bravery......it's courage in the face of your fears. You possess this for the ones you love. porn for a man is much more than an addiction. You will need to fight the fight of your life for your husband, for without you he will perish. He has no strength against this adversary....only you do. HE NEEDS YOU. though he will never know it. there is a release of epinephrin and endorphins into his system and a hightened state in the pleasure sensory portion of his brain when he sees a naked woman. It has nothing to do with his love for you. You can intervene. you must....there is no other way. he loves his daughters, he loves you. they love him and obviously so do you. hence the jealousy of the mistress. He needs a group of men that can hold him accountable. does his phone have internet? the computer isn't the only way...trust a seasoned veteran...i admit this with tears and shame. this is the reason i let my old phone go. i have a piece of junk now b/c i love my wife and i now adore womanhood. i refuse to lose my wife and family over my weakness. she is my help mate so i submit myself to her strength over my indulgence in weakness. there are cycles of dependency.....1 month relapse....3 month relapse...6 month relapse...1 year...3 year...he will never fully recover......he will now always need accountability to the end of his days. Else his weakness be made manifest in the twinkling of an eye and his devotion to his love for you and recovery be lost. Here now is the true state, he is broken and his wounds will never fully heal. God has placed you woman of valor with him for such a time as this...only you, no one else. God will not allow you to be tested beyond what you can bare...Life will be lost if you fail in your heart...now you will see your very best..your very best. you cannot abandon your battle..this battle can be won. I am proof. It is dark, defiled, depraved, reprobate, and enduring but......you shall meet it in battle none the less. Prayer and the prayer together of your fellow women TOGETHER is your secret weapon. against that with the power of accountability there can be no victory. "having done all you can do.....stand." STAND TALL. The fight isn't over yet..you're are battling what Jesus called demonic oppression. It is very real. you are living with it. Now is time for your greatest weapon in your darkest hour...JESUS. but truly not just in lip service. It must be real. "he is your comfort" " he is your sheild, your strength, strong tower, your fortress, your deliverer, your very present help in time of need." He is the ever living God. NOTHING can snatch you or your husband from the palm of his hand or seperate you from his love. I do not know where you stand in your faith, but you mentioned your creator so I mentioned him too. Remember who you are........i can only take you so far.....You king can carry you the rest of the way. You are not alone..my wife and i will pray and fast for you. we will do it today. tonight is the sabbath. we will begin tonight. you are not alone. the holy spirit will shoulder up with you and be your strength where you have none. he will sustain you in grace(the life and sustaining power of God) and bear the load. the yoke is light for Jesus and he forever makes intercession for you to God. He is still your high priest. The saints beyond are cheering you to victory...listen.....you have the support of an entire kingdom. We love you sister...Contend for the Faith. pay particular attention to relapse schedules. this is the "fizz" or either wearing off. He has an underlying reason for resorting to porn...IT IS NOT YOU. there is something else and it is from his past. My problem was the exposure at such an early age and that it was not considered bad in my household growing up. this creates addiction at a very early age. Nikki, do you have a church? If you do, go to the pastor and encourage your husband to involve himself and submit himself to a men's group.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I wish there was an easy answer for you. I want to tell you to just leave your husband, but I know it's not a simple decision to make. I firmly believe addiction is addiction, whether it be watching hours of television, being a workaholic, drinking too much, doing drugs, always watching porn--all of these things are things that people do instead of living their lives and paying attention to their families. And I cannot imagine how much that hurts you, for your husband to constantly choose his addiction over you. If he is doing this and it is interfering with his normal activities in life (like studying for school and being intimate with you), he needs to make the decision to truly stop for good.
I'm thinking that either he needs to get some major therapy or you need to just leave and live without him for awhile. Maybe he needs to hit rock bottom, and without you and his children with him every day he will realize that he needs to really change in order to get his family back. Or maybe he is fighting a mental illness and coping with it through his addiction (depression? anxiety?). I say this because my mother has been an alcoholic for years (and also watches TV all day long); she is just now getting treatment for her anxiety and depression and I think it is helping her.
Maybe a psychological evaluation would help him; or a temporary separation from him would be the kick he needs to make the change. But I definitely don't think you should continue to put up with his behavior, because it is wrong and you deserve better than that. Good luck, I hope you're able to figure out the best thing to do for your family.
I would not allow this in my marriage and I don't think you should either.
You are better than this.
You do not owe him anything.
He needs to change and I think the only way to do this is to have him
take responsibility for his life.
1 - you need to leave him.
2 - he needs to stop school for now, and get a full time job. ( stop paying his way )
3 - he needs his own place. ( he needs to be alone - feel lonely )
Right now he has his cake and he is eating it too!
He has too much time on his hands and that allows him to think a lot about sex.
If he is working full time, he will have less time.
With you and your children gone, he will see what it feels like without you all. He will start to appreciate you more.
I'm not talking about divorce, I'm talking about separation.
He needs to focus on his life. He needs to see how good he has it with you.
If you don't leave and help him on his way then he has no reason to change.
I wish you the best with this.
You deserve better than this.
You are a strong woman, wife, and mother and you can do this.
Your resentment is built up over 10 years with this. That much resentment is hard to let go of. Even if he stopped tomorrow, how long would it take for him to convince you he's changed. Think long and hard about your decisions, because you do have two daughters. Do you want them to see their mother miserable in a relationship and show them that's how relationships are supposed to be. I'm not one for running away and getting divorced, but if you feel in your heart of hearts that you have exasperated every avenue and you know you have tried all you can but nothing has changed then you have to pull the trigger and do what's best for you FIRST. Put yourself first to make yourself happy so you can be a good mommy!
Good luck to you!!
~No judgement was passed at all in this post!! :) haha!
I personally don't have too many issues with it, but there are boundaries that shouldn't be crossed. If it's a problem for one spouse then it's a problem for both. Period. So if it's a problem for you then your husband ought to be honoring your wishes to abstain from viewing porn. Healthy exposure to porn is not addictive. It doesn't get between a man and his wife. It doesn't replace sex in a marriage. It doesn't promote infidelity. It doesn't cause marital problems. It doesn't surround itself with lies, deceit, broken promises, and everything else you've been through over this.
I know you've stated reasons for not disconnecting the internet service and removing the computer, but if this is a true addiction then you need to treat it like one. Would you keep alcohol in the house of an alcoholic that's trying to recover? Would you keep pot in the house of someone coming home from rehab for crack and abusing prescription pain meds? Even more simply than that... do you keep a house filled with sweets and junk food and go to fast food places when you're trying to eat with a healthy lifestyle? Then why would you keep internet service in the house with access to pornography to someone who has a porn addiction?
If you must keep the computer and service, then you need to set up a master account on the computer and assign a password to it that he doesn't have. You'll also need to set up parental controls for the entire computer and make sure that they don't allow anything R-rated or X-rated. You can even set up time restrictions, time limits, and blocks of time when the computer can and can't be used. Remove internet from cell phones and block downloads. Remove him as someone authorized to make changes on the cell phone account.
This isn't because you're "acting like his mother" but it's in the interest of trying to preserve your marriage if that's what you're still interested in doing. It will also protect your children from ever accidentally walking in and seeing something inappropriate on the computer screen.