A girlfriend and her nearly 5 year old came over to ours. The little girl asked to use our bathroom. She went in and started undressing w/o closing the door. I prompted her to close it. Then I turned to my friend and said, I hope I didn't cross a line by correcting your child. Her response was, "so far as I'm concerned, any adult can discipline my child." She explained, that her child might be in danger that she is unaware of, and another adult might keep her out of harm's way.
We were brought up to respect and mind our elders. When looking at mamapedia, it seems that there is a new ettiquette, and one musn't correct/ discipline other people's children.
What is the new norm? Is my g.f. the odd one out? Are there any disadvantages to her strategy? Are there good reasons to butt out? If I decide to follow her suit, how do I let people know that they can feel free to step in?
If my child is in danger and I am not right there, I would hope another adult would step in and help. If my son hit's a child and I did not see, I would want them to step in and say something, then and bring him to me. However, I think in the majority of instances, it's not necessary. I am there, and they can bring him over and let me deal with it. If I am not there, that's a completely different situation...of course. I had this talk with my mother in law. She is OK with spanking, and I'm not. She thinks at her house, if my son misbehaves, she should have the right to spank him. I told her, if she ever lays a hand on him, he won't be allowed at her house. Adults who watch my son (only his grandparents watch him) need to be on board with how we discipline, and be consistent.
I think the only answer to this question is to use common sense.
If my child is about to run into the street or climb on something he shouldn't, another parent (friend of mine) sees this and I don't, of course they should speak up. They wouldn't be much of a friend if they didn't. And of course, I would do it for them.
If someone's child is about to harm me or my own children or another child, I would without a doubt speak up. I would, again, want another mom to do the same with my kids.
Now, if the parent is right there and sees what is going on and it is clear the parent is going to do or say something and it is NOT affecting you or your children, probably time to butt out.
Each scenario is going to be so different, so if you use good judgment each time, you cannot go wrong. Do for other kids and parents what you would want them to do for you.
Of course there are disadvantages to her strategy, as another parent could disicpline her child for something she didn't deem punishment worthy. But, her friends and other adults around her children should be pretty aware of her boundaries. (ie no spanking, etc).
The way to let other moms/adults know they are OK to discipline your child, within reason, is to simply make clear you trust them to make decisions about your child when you are not around, and make those decisions as close to your standards as possible. Make sure they know your standards.
I'm old school....if my child is in danger or doing something that can harm another - CORRECT HIM.
Crap happens when your back is turned, while almost all mama's have eyes in the back of their head - they don't have arms there either!! (DARN IT!!) If it's a safety/bullying issue - correct it.
If it's just he can't pronounce a word right or something like that - let it slide...
i think that, as a whole, quite a few mothers (maybe not fathers) will correct a child if the child is in danger or potentially harming someone else. On the other hand, quite a few mothers are too worried about what some crazy parents :) might say if someone tries to correct there child. i was in Sams Cub one day and my daughter was tired and cranky. They had a huge playhouse set up and I let my daughter go in and play. Well, when I took her out she started crying. And by no means was she a quiet crier. There was a couple walking by who looked at me and my daughter and said that I needed to take her out of the store because it was ridiculous. I got pissed. Every baby cries. she was just over a year old. However, my son likes dogs and when he went to pet one before i could tell him to make sure, someone had said to not pet the dog because it could be dangerous. that i didn't mind. i think that there are boundaries, but it's just hard to know where they are with some people.
My friends have an understanding that any of us can discipline any of our children. I would also speak up if a child was in danger or putting another child at risk of harm.
On the other hand, I dared speak up at a public gym one time to ask two young children to stop deliberately throwing their balls at me on the sidelines. Their mothers (half my age) jumped all over me as if their "babies" could do no wrong... I learned to pick my battles...
I agree to an extent.
Obviously, if my child is doing something that could hurt her or someone else, and I don't see it, please make her stop!
If she is being mean or aggressive, same thing, tell her to please stop.
But if you don't like that a word she uses, or the way she plays with something, but it is not actually harming anyone, even if it is not the word you would let you kid use, leave it alone.
Tell your own child not to say those things, for an example.
And don't EVER even think about time outs or spankings.
I will happily put her in time out if I have had a chance to talk to her and find out what happen and explain it was wrong.
But, that is my job.
And I do not believe in spanking, I will have you arrested for assault if I find out you hit my kid.
But that is just me. :)
I remember my SIL and her husband had me watching their 3 kids. They were potty training one of them and he had an accident. Their discipline was to put him in a COLD shower and make him wash himself (for poo accidents).
I felt TERRIBLE!
I even called them while he was taking the clothes to the wash and what not and asked them what to do, even though I knew they did this...
They told me to do it. I made the water warm and let him take a shower, I never told them that I did not use cold water, I felt like that was too cruel.
So even with permission I will not discipline in some cases....
Something like that, I expect anyone who sees it to step in if I don't right away. Me and my neighbor dad are like that. We correct kids in a respectable way. Around here, there are tons of kids with NO adult supervision because their parents are lazy as hell (witnessing, I know they have no disabilities or anything). I constantly watch and correct a 2 yr old that is allowed on a main neighborhood road with NO adult supervision.
As far as friends, yeah we correct each others kids after giving a reasonable amount of time for the friend to respond, unless it's something petty... unless it is dangerous (walking in the road) then immediate action is required :)
At Zions National Park, my mom felt like we HAD to go because she was tired so we had to ride the shuttle from the last hike to the first drop off (where you park) which has a lot of stops... not a good idea for a 2 year old. She started getting hard to get along with when we had 3 stops left. The older lady beside me was sweet and said what's wrong baby when I was tryna get her in her seat (she was standing up in front of it) and was whining b/c I wouldn't let her out (she was by the window). The lady was like Oh dear, who's the boss and my daughter pointed to me so the lady said we sure don't won't you to hit your little head on the floor if you fall. She was really sweet and non judgmental about it and my daughter sat down lol.
sigh Sue W, parents like that annoy me. I would've apologized for my kids actions.
Manda F, I TOTALLY agree with you. I'd have someone arrested for that too. I don't believe in spanking. and yeah, it depends on the situation. If it's a word that isn't a cuss word or it's just something small that bugs you leave it alone.
S S, that would've pissed me off too (sams club couple).
Well, I don't think asking your friend's daughter to close the door was "discipling" her...just reminding her of bathroom ettiquette. And that kind of thing would be fine with me.
The only time I'd want another adult to "discipline" my child would be if my child was in direct harm (running out into a street) or harming another child (hitting or throwing things at them) and I'm NOT around (maybe I'm tending to a boo-boo on my other child). Other than that, leave my kids alone.
I'm pretty easy-going with my kids - and it may not be in line with how another mom is raising her kids. So, for example, if my child is climbing up the slide and NOT in the way of another child, LET HER BE!! I think that kind of thing is fine. You (general you) may not, but that's fine. It's not like I'm going to make your kid go up the slide, right?
Well, most of our freinds and family are free to GENTLY discipline our daughter. It is true that there are situations when it makes sense that an adult other then Mom or Dad will have to discipline a child... and that is ok!
That said... I think parents need to err on the side of caution. If there needs to be a serious intervention, the parents really ought to do it if they are present. My daughter was bit (pretty badly) on the cheek by another girl at a kids party... YOU BET I let her mama take that one. (I stopped her daughter and fetched her mother... but didn't enforce a punishment myself) First off, my daughter was hysterical (she thought she was getting a kiss!) Secondly, my mom protectiveness kicked in and I knew that it would be hard for me to fairly discipline this other girl in the situation... plus I didn't know if the girl was a repeat offender, or if my daughter was the first to be "vampirized".
That said... I can enforce a time out on someone else's child... but if mom or dad is there, I'd RATHER they do it. I don't mind solving toy-sharing problems ("if we cannot share, no one gets this toy!"). I think you should always step in to a dangerous situation if a child's mom and dad are not there to notice... and then inform the parents ASAP. That said, I do think punishments should be on the gentle side, unless the parents have given specific instructions. I try to think of how a teacher would discipline a child, rather than how a parent would... Also, if a child doesn't know "your rules" they should get one free 'warning'- like "no, at our house we don't stand on the table during dinner... don't do it again, please"
As far as ettiquette goes... well kids need discipline. Ideally mom and dad provide it... but sometimes other people will have to. It is good practice for when they reach school-age and beyond. In the real world we have lots of rules to follow; the law, our personal rules, religious rules, family rules, social rules, work rules... and more... depending on the situation we are expected to act differently. Learning how different people "do things" as a child will prepare them for encountering all these situations as they grow up!
I don't think it was "discipline" either. But I fully expect others who are "in charge" of my son to correct him--be it a friend's parent when he's at their house, a teacher, a baseball coach, etc.
When my son goes to a buddy's house I often tell the parents "feel free to correct him just as you would your own kid(s) b/c I feel it's a "my house/my rules" situation.
I find that most parents feel the same way, so I'm not sure why you're getting a different perspective...?
I think that the difference is that saying "Close the door honey" or "Don't run out in the street, stay on the sidewalk" are just things that anyone could say to my child and I would not be upset. You tell one of my kids "Close the damn door" or blow things out of proportion, or try to spank my kids or something that is going to be a problem. People just need to use common sense. I do not YELL at other peoples kids unless there is an immediate danger, and it is not out of anger, it is for safety reasons. And I don't expect other people to yell (in anger) at my kids either. I think that only a childs parents should spank them. But I don't just spank my kids for anything, that is kind of a last resort, it is not a punishment that I use for just any type of infraction.....
I guess it just depends on what you mean by "discipline" to me, what you said to her was not any form of "discipline"
i disagree with a new norm. i think it depends on the mom.
i dont mind if other people tell my kids to stop running towards the street or not to climb onto a wobbly toy or something, if i didnt see it first!
but if there is someone telling my kid what to do when there is no danger in sight, that bugs me. like if the parent is just getting annoyed. thats just wrong. you have to know boundaries with people, i think. common courtesy and such.
I like my kids knowing they can't get away with murder, whether mom and dad are there or not. I'm the same way with my kids. If someone else sees one of my kids climbing the shelves in a store (they would never, it's just an example), I have NO problem with another adult saying 'hey kid! Bad idea!'
I also have no problem saying this to other kids. Example: at my daughters soccer game a few weeks ago, 2 young boys (maybe 3 or 4) were climbing a fence... that in itself isn't a big deal, except the fence was wobbling dangerously and looked like it was going to fall over... into traffic. I ran over and physically pulled them both down. Both dad's ran up shortly after and thanked me.
Also, yesterday I was babysitting a 4 year old boy at my house. He asked me to wipe the 'yogurt' off his shirt. I said 'Hmm... smells an awful lot like toothpaste, mister' (he had just used the bathroom). He fessed up, and I let his mom know we had a talk on telling the truth.
I would never step in and discipline a child that a parent was already disciplining, and I would never physically strike someone else's child. Those are the only rules that go for other people disciplining my kids as well. Other than that, anything goes. Kids need to know that their boundaries and rules don't end at home.
in the past, our culture wasn't as diverse as it is now, people had the same ideas about what was ok and what wasn't. The Beave"s mom wasn't going to let him do something Opie's aunt bee wouldn't let him do. Now adays anything goes. Mom's arent on the same page.
so to me yes, your gf is the odd one out, she has a friend that parents the same way she does, that is pretty rare. In your example, first it was so nice of you to check in with her, but if she was sitting right there and chose not to address the open door then it seems insulting to me that you would correct the little girl when the mother had chosen not to. If she was busy or out of the room then to me that is different. There are times when i choose to address certain behaviors my children have and at other times, i know them well enough to know that they already realized they made a mistake and i want to give them the chance to apologize on their own, If someone else jumps right in them my child never learns that they need to take it on themselves to say "i made a mistake" plus they feel extra bad and embarrassed on top of it. So in an instance like that i will watch and see, if no aplology is comign ina reasonable time, i will go address it, but I am THE MAMA and i know my kids best, so there maybe a reason for why i choose to be inactive at that point.
Back when we used to live in a "neighborhood", I was the "street Mom". Everyone knew not to misbehave around me, because I WOULD call their parents and tell them what happened and I would correct them.
Now we live in a rural area and there aren't exactly a lot of kids around. But, still, when we go to the park or somewhere I'll correct other people's children. I expect and appreciate others to do the same for my children.
I grew up in a town where you didn't dare misbehave because you WOULD be found out and you parents would kill you. I think this new trend towards not being able to tell another child "no" for fear of getting in trouble is ridiculous. I'm all for a parents having control in the raising of their child, but it takes a village, right?
Or at least, that's what they used to say.
Added:
I WILL correct a child if they are in my house and they use a word or phrase we don't approve of. The other day, my 9 y/o daughter had a friend over (also 9). The friend kept saying "oh my God!". I am very careful with my children about not taking the Lord's name in vain. I asked the girl to please not say that, as it was an inappropriate way, in my house, to refer to God. She actually apologized and said she didn't realize it bothered me and she'd try not to say it.
For the rest of the day, she'd go "Oh my G-goodness!". I told her Mother, when she came to pick her up, what I'd done, and that I only told her it was inappropriate IN MY HOUSE. The Mom actually said, "Oh thank you. I've been trying to break her of that for months." lol
I think as a mother we should all correct a child if they are in harms way. I would appricate help I mean we can't be everywhere. Some of the stuff not dangerous or just talking and being annoying or something should be the mother.
These's a huge gap between correcting and disciplining. By all means correct, I totallly correct other peoples children and have never felt it bothered them. But you cannot discipline another persons child unless they have given you the green light in advance. What my sisters and I do with eachothers children is mention when we saw somthing that is discilinable. I ask, "does she need a time out?" Sisters and friends will say if they think the behavior was punishable, but only the parent administers the punishment. Certain people know they can punish my child, Grandparents (though they never do) and one aunt thats more like a grandma. Looks like your friend has given you the green light to correct, but I'd clarify if she has really given you the green light to punish. Thats unusual.