Potty Training An 8 Year Old...

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1

Okay, this is a question for my SIL.

Background: My SIL has 5 kids - 13 year old girl, 8 year old boy/girl twins, 5 year old boy, and a newborn girl. The 3 oldest kids are from her first "relationship" (Engaged but never married). The youngest two are from her current marriage. The kids live with my SIL and her husband (Who raises/treats them like his own and loves them just as much as his own), and do every other weekend with their father. I don't know the full story, but their father sounds like a complete ****.

Situation: Her 8 year old son was potty trained. No accidents what-so-ever for a year and a half. Then one weekend he stayed at his father's house. When he got back, he was no longer potty trained. My SIL says that it wouldn't surprise her if her ex had somehow convinced her son to do this. I guess he has convinced them to do other things before (Like saying hateful things to their mom, fighting with each other to stress mommy out, etc). I found this out because I've been watching the kids this week (The 3 oldest kids were at their dad's Monday/Tuesday and Wednesday my SIL took off work to take them all to a Dr appointment, so this was the first day that the 8 year old was with me). Towards the end of the day, I noticed that something stunk. It wasn't my two year old and it wasn't the newborn. I asked the 5 year old if he had an accident, and he said no. Then the 13 year old told me that sometimes the 8 year old boy had accidents. So I asked him and sure enough he admitted that he had pooped his pants. Why? Because he was too busy playing. Now he had used the bathroom several times during the day, so it's not like he doesn't know HOW to use the bathroom... He just chose not to. I made him clean up the mess on the floor (Some of the poop had fallen out of his underwear and onto the carpet in my son's bedroom) and clean his underwear and himself (There wasn't any extra underwear or pants for him in the bag my SIL packed (She forgot because his grandma (The person who usually watches him) has clothes for him at her house).

So when my SIL came to pick up the kids I told her about it. She has said that it has been going on for over a year now. They have taken him to his doctor, who said there was nothing physically wrong. They have tried punishments, taking away favorite things (For example: He is not allowed to play the Wii (Which he loves) until it stops - He doesn't care), and rewards for when he does use the potty. They have had people that he respects try to talk to him. They have asked him why is does it and come up with a solution to every problem (Example: Why didn't you get out of bed to use the bathroom last night? I woke up but was afraid of the dark. Okay, here is a night light.). When he does it at their house, he has to clean up whatever mess on the floor, scrub his underwear out in the bathtub, and then clean the bathtub. They have tried everything that they can think of and he just doesn't seem to care. He does it everywhere. At home, at his dad's, at his relative's houses, at friend's houses, at school... Everywhere. They just can not figure out a way to solve this problem.

I offered to post a question about it on here and see what solutions you ladies come up with. Maybe you can think of something that they haven't thought of?

P.S After his "accident" today, I talked to him and we agreed on what punishment would happen tomorrow if he had another "accident" at my house. No more ipad for him. Hopefully he won't do it again, but we'll have to see.

2

We had a boy in my class that would poop when he was stressed. Of course being kids we teased him about it to make him poop more. It was all psychological and he outgrew it. My point isn’t that we were awful kids but even if he said he did it purpose there is a chance he didn’t.

3

To a child psychiatrist and quickly. I got nothin else. Anyone with these issues needs help, big time.

4

I don’t think it’s because his father “told” him to do it. Encopresis is usually a control issue, and his parents’ divorce and his father being a **** probably has something to do with it. They lack control in some area of their lives, but they offset it by controlling (or refusing to control) their bowels.

I think she should focus on the reward aspect more than punishing him. Punishment rarely works for this. He’s getting some personal reward from pooping in his pants, so she needs to offer him something that’s worth more.

I know a teen who had this through middle school, and he told me that when he decided to contain it he just worked really hard to keep it in, although that’s not all that helpful. I could ask him for more information if you wish.

5

Never punish a chd for bathroom issues.
This child needs professional help ASAP. I’m shocked his pediatrician didn’t address that.

6

My stepdaughter occasionally peed and pooped in her pants until she was 8. It was caused by stress. She lived mainly with her mom and stepdad. We would find out after the fact that there was (another) big upset in their household after these instances - loss of job, miscarriage, another move upcoming. Her stepfather and her mother were also abusing her brother, physically and emotionally. She felt responsible. (We got custody, eventually.)

I have a friend whose son had this problem until 8 or 9, through their divorce, and up until his dad, during visitation, threatened to kill him.

This isn’t likely a behavior that will be solved by punishing. This boy needs attention by his mother and a trained child psychologist/counselor to find out what is at the root of this.

7

It is time, for professional psychological help, from a mental health professional/Therapist.

And the 2nd problem is: the Dad seems like a jerk. And who knows what goes on at his house, toward the son. Or who comes and goes from the Dad’s house and whatever else kind of activities or environment, goes on there and, who knows how the Dad treats, the son, or if he is abusive either physically or mentally and emotionally.

And the bottom line is: WHY, don’t they take the boy, to a Professional Psychologist.

8

Kids that age aren’t potty trained - potties are for toddlers. Does he always poop/pee in his pants, or just occasionally or once a day or what? If a doctor has determined that there’s no medical problem, and he is doing this regularly, then perhaps he has emotional issues and needs some counselling. He’s way too old to be having accidents - or intentionals - and to be sitting in it without caring or without being embarrassed at school or friends’ homes.

9

Counseling!

Are you sure something “bad” didn’t happen at his dad’s house? Sounds like something traumatic happened.

Good luck!!!

10

At that age, potty training regression is frequently a sign of a traumatic event… like being sexually abused, or physically abused, or witnessing something age inappropriate (dad having sex with girlfriend?). Or it could be stress related - maybe the tension at his dad’s house or the tension between the mom and dad. Either way - this boy should really see a child psychologist to get to the root of the problem. Someone who’s trained in this could help him get over whatever it is, and back on track.

11

www.rogerknapp.com/medical/pottytrainingrefusals.htm‎ gives a good process that many families in similar situations have found useful.

Your solution for tomorrow might work. Since he hasn’t seemed to care about punishments/deprivations in the past, he may be feeling angry or resentful (for any number of reasons that make sense only to him). I wonder if a positive spin might be more effective: “You can earn the right to use the iPad for x minutes for every hour you keep your pants clean by using the bathroom. Plus, you can avoid having to clean up after yourself, which takes longer than using the toilet. Good deal, huh? I’m cheering for you!”

12

It is hard to believe that an 8 yo would willfully do this. He must have some kind of emotional/psychological problem and I do not think punishment is the answer. He needs professional help.

13

What works for us is we take our 6 year old to the bathroom every couple of hours or so. We take the item he is playing with and we don’t give it back until he produces pee in the toilet.

Once he has gone to the bathroom and we have seen pee he can have the item back. Then a couple of hours later we do it again.

If he is not playing on the ipod when your little guy has an accident then there is no association to pee and that toy. Therefore not a logical consequence. So let him play ipod until he has an accident THEN take it away.

14

Family therapy. This isn’t about potty training. This is about a kid who is from a broke home and at least one of the parents is messing with his head. He needs help, and his mom needs to take action and get it from him. It’s nice that the family wants to help, but I don’t think they’re enough in this situation.

15

It’s clearly not 100% an accident - he is either doing it willfully, his father has somehow forced him into it (aka abusive), or he’s somehow traumatized and this is how it’s manifesting itself. If it were truly an accident, he would be embarrassed by it happening at school or with his friends. Sounds more like a desperate cry for attention to me.

Does he have any sort of conditions or disabilities (autism, for example) that might make it harder in general to potty train him?

If he’s 8 years old, this is been happening for 1 year, and he was only potty trained for 18 months before that, he was already REALLY old before he was potty trained (like, 5).

This child needs therapy. Chances are the other two do as well. The mom needs it too. This behavior is absolutely not normal and probably not physical (esp since the docs confirmed that).

16

Something bigger is wrong. He needs help, not punishments.

My SD used to pee her pants because she was playing and didn’t want to stop to use the bathroom. She would suddenly not be able to hold it and then pee her pants. This usually happened if she was very absorbed in playing with something, or at our relatives house and there were kids to play with and she didn’t want to stop. After peeing, she’d be upset and come to us. We used to have to bring extra underwear and clothes everywhere we went. This happened when she was about 7. There weren’t any big differences except when she was about that age we stopped watching her so closely and allowed her freedom to play with her friends. This meant we weren’t asking her if she had to go potty when we saw the signs, and she wasn’t wanting to go.

What worked for us: have your SIL set a timer for 1 hour. He is to try to go to the bathroom every hour when the timer goes off, meaning he will have to stop playing to do it.

Hopefully he will decide that stopping playing every hour is more annoying than just going to the bathroom when you have to go. My SD decided that she hated having to stop playing every hour to try to go, so suddenly she decided to go when she had to go and the accidents stopped.

If he is playing with poop in his pants, something else is wrong. My SD always came to us right away after an accident and was upset.

Good luck!

17

This has been going on long enough, and no one is addressing the cause. This child is either suffering from an emotional or a physical issue. The punishments need to stop immediately.

Start with physical. He needs to see a pediatric gastroenterologist to rule out encopresis or some other serious issue. Sometimes seizure disorders are involved. I don’t care what the first doctor said, there needs to be a specialist involved. If there is a biological cause, he may still need a behavioral psychologist to help develop some control. This does not mean his elimination is within his control now! It’s not!! I had a student with encopresis and she had a series of petit mal seizures - during a seizure (very small, often not noticeable) she would often lose control of her bowels and/or bladder.

There is definitely a stress issue here. It may not be the sole cause, but if it’s not, it’s a definite result of this long-standing problem. Something triggered this. No matter how much of a jerk the father is, he didn’t tell the boy to do this and the boy has continued it! That’s absurd. This poor boy needs to see a qualified psychologist. The first thing to be ruled out is sexual abuse - sudden problems with peeing and pooping (and many other behaviors) are classic symptoms of sexual abuse. It could have been the father but it could have been some friend of the father’s, or someone completely removed from the weekend at the father’s house. It could be some other traumatic event.

It’s time for the parents, the relatives, the “people he respects” to stop asking him these questions. The poor child has to keep coming up with excuses (which he is completely making up), and then someone throws a solution at him (a nightlight, a punishment). No one else, in my view, is qualified to even discuss this again. Stop the punishments - they are increasing his feelings of shame and isolation, and that’s not only cruel, that’s completely ineffective. Just clean the boy up and put him in incontinence garments (with a loving, supportive voice) to control the clean-up and smell. He should also have some baggy pants or shorts to conceal the garments so no kids make fun of him. Every family member, babysitter, camp counselor or other lay person absolutely must stop discussing anything about this. His parents put him in the garments, give him a spare “pull up” (made for older kids or even small adults) and spare pants for this backpack if he’s gone for the day, and 2 large plastic bags (like grocery bags) for double-bagging soiled garments.

Meantime, he gets into therapy for a trained professional - and ONLY a trained professional - to investigate and try to determine the cause and then an appropriate course of treatment. This child needs to be dealt with from a position of understanding and compassion, not strict disciplinary and punitive measures. Please. For this poor child’s sake, urge them to take action today. The parents (or at least the mother and stepfather) should tell him they know it’s not his fault and he’s not doing it on purpose, and they are committed to helping him. And for the time being, they need to stop focusing on what a jerk the father is and stop blaming him unless/until they know something definitive, and if possible get his cooperation.

18

ok im really confused-8 yrs old? been potty trained for a 1 1/2 yrs?..im at a loss-you sure theres no pysical,sexual or mental abuse going on in his life? this is usually how it rears its head..get him into therapy..something is totally wrong with this at this age…

19

I agree with Diane B (and the other posts, also)…There is more going on here that needs to be addressed by a professional, to either diagnose or rule out some physical issue and then also get him some sort of therapy..at his age, sounds like he’s be traumatized by something…And the punishments have got to stop- it’s most likely not helping the situation any.

Good luck

20

SIL needs to understand, NOW, that this is a scream for help. Even if the boy is doing it purely willfully and intentionally, even if the dad encouraged this as a way to just be mean to your SIL – no kid who is otherwise fine is going to put up with this at age eight unless something else is gravely wrong. The boy needs therapy starting immediately and frankly your SIL and her husband need family therapy as well to figure out why the boy is doing this as well as to find out how to cope with what sounds like a truly awful ex. The ex and your SIL may even need to see a mediator and/or counselor together, because if they cannot learn to cope as a pair – not a couple, but as a pair of parents – they are going to damage this child beyond belief. Please help SIL talk with their pediatrician - I am shocked that the ped. said “it’s not medical” and left it there and did not refer her immediately for therapy for this poor boy!! Any good ped. would have realized that a child this age who was toileting normally and regressed for a full year this badly needed serious intervention. You may have to be the one to wake up SIL to the seriousness of this and the idea that the boy needs professional help right now.