I posted an earlier question about my marriage...my husband spent 15000 on real estate course and didn't tell me. He feels justified in what he did, and has told me that I can't convince him he was wrong but maybe a marriage counseling can. He told me that since he feels sorry for himself being in a miserable marriage and has anger towards me for various things, he feels more justified doing what he wants. This has been a bad marriage, with lying, emotional abuse, an incident of physical abuse that caused me to leave 6 months, inlaw issues. There has also been huge effort to change, some spotty counseling, days of real love, effort and a two year old son. He is a good dad. There has been a lack of conscience and recklessness in his side, being overly emotional and depressed on mine(mainly from all the misery and stress). And yet it is hard to leave! For my son, and for the sadness I woul feel leaving him. So I am a mess. Anyone been here? Anyone had counseling help them ou of such a deep hole? any advice?
Even if it doesn't help your marriage a good counselor can help you with yourself (we fight our greatest battles within ourselves imho).
Good luck and I hope things turn around for you.
Our marriage counseling was done through the Episcopal Seminary here. There was nothing religous about it..
The first 2 sessions were very painful. By the third, we went so we could tell the Therapist there was no hope.. We still went through that session.. Then my husband and I walked outside and started discussing how we were going to handle the split and divorce.. Midway through this conversation, we realized we had not once snapped at each other,not made snide remarks, not attacked each other.. we had learned how to talk with each other no to each other!
We were stunned.. We decided to try to continue this and not split, but instead to put everything behind us and start new.. There have been some moments, but we remembered why we married in the first place. We decided we would no longer allow "outside forces" to come between us. If we did not disagree with each other it was ok to say, I do not agree, but I am not doing to stop you. We knew that person would have to take responsibility for their choice.
Married people are still allowed to be individuals, but your main goals should be to make sure your partner is loved and cared for. You show and give respect to each other.
It cannot hurt to at least try. Listen to each other. Be honest and do not hold back. State what each of you have for goals and be honest about how much effort you are willing to give..
We have now been married almost 30 years. We cannot believe it either! We laugh a lot.. It helps..
I am sending you strength and peace..
I wish you all the best because divorce is not easy!! I am talking from experience. Marriage counseling will work if both parties are willing to make it work. My X husband wanted to do nothing except point out my faults and never listen to anyone else.
I suggest that you try marriage counseling (if your husband will cooperate) but if things don't work then learn to love yourself and go to counseling alone. When you are strong that is when you make the best decisions.
Counseling has helped me several times in my life, so I absolutely recommend it, no matter what kind of problems you're having. Since you both realize that things could be better, what have you got to lose? Go in with an open attitude about what YOU can do to make things better, not so some counselor can "straighten him out". Counseling will show you both how to argue effectively, to have common goals, to negotiate, to treat each other with respect, and most importantly, how to parent your children together. You say he's a good father, and then proceed to describe how terrible things are. Do you want your son to grow up to be the same kind of man? This is his role model. I'm sure he wants to be a good father, and asking for some guidance when everything's going to hell is a step in the right direction. It takes courage and commitment to admit that you need help and are open to change. Good luck.
I had a retarded marriage for years -12 or 13. I tried individual counseling for myself - it was not effective. I tried marriage counseling with my husband. It was not effective. We would just fight on the drive home from the counselor about what each other had said : ). I tried counseling with clergy. That helped pretty well. What helped me the most was reading a book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. It is very outdated and lots of women hate it because it is so old fashioned, but it has lots of gems in it that made a fast, MAJOR difference in my marriage. We had the same crap going on as you - lying, emotional abuse, brief minor physical abuse, me overly depressed and emotional too.
I hope and pray your read that book, especially the part on understanding men. 99% of the lying and fighting and abusive words have stopped, permanently now for a couple of years. We backslide to immature communications at times of extreme tiredness or stress, but not anywhere near as bad as it used to be. The best parts of the book are about understanding men. Read it. Please! I promise it will help you.
Yes! We have also done marriage retreats. Been mentored by other couples married longtime and who experienced issues but were able to work it out. It takes a lot of work.... But if both parties are willing and want to work it out then there is hope. The key is that both parties contribute to most issues in a marriage. Both have to be willing to own "their" junk and work through it. Most counselors equip couples with ideas and strategies to communicate and address problems. My nubby and I have come a long way with all this " training". Seek out a coonselor who remains neutral. I'd tell you mine but we don't live in the same area. We still check in and see our counselor just to recalibrate once in awhile to make sure we are accountable and staying the course. We have three kids all 5 and under lots of stress but we are making it :-). And it is because we've had lots of help. Good luck it does sound like you need help quick
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Yes! We have also done marriage retreats. Been mentored by other couples married longtime and who experienced issues but were able to work it out. It takes a lot of work.... But if both parties are willing and want to work it out then there is hope. The key is that both parties contribute to most issues in a marriage. Both have to be willing to own "their" junk and work through it. Most counselors equip couples with ideas and strategies to communicate and address problems. My nubby and I have come a long way with all this " training". Seek out a coonselor who remains neutral. I'd tell you mine but we don't live in the same area. We still check in and see our counselor just to recalibrate once in awhile to make sure we are accountable and staying the course. We have three kids all 5 and under lots of stress but we are making it :-). And it is because we've had lots of help. Good luck it does sound like you need help quick
If you can, LEAVE! DON'T WAIT! Get out of there! Good Luck to you!
You say he's a good dad, good dads dont treat mom bad, seriously.
If counseling doesnt work for this marriage it will work for your next one going in. That's what happened to me and my husband (2nd marriage for both of us), all that prior counseling helped us to have what we consider a pretty perfect marriage.
We went, had similar issues, and it saved our marriage without a doubt. We did go for approximately 2 years about 1 x a week and then we tapered off just to check in to make sure things were on track for us. I didn't know how I'd get the money to pay for it but it was well worth it. I will say that we went through about 3 other counselors before we hit the jackpot so if you don't like the 1st person try try again and there's no shame in that.
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My marriage counseling has worked for me, but my husband has never treated me the way you describe yours treating you. I wonder if your husband is truly willing to see his faults and make changes or if he's more invested in blaming his bad behavior on the marriage.
Therapy certainly couldn't hurt, but I'm not sure it will save your marriage. It may help you both realize what needs to happen next for the highest good of all concerned if you both are willing to be honest, open and do the work. Marriage takes work and you have to both be willing to take responsibility for your actions, make agreements, and continue every day to choose to be in the marriage.
I'm sorry to say, your marriage reminds me very much of my relationship with my ex (whom I have 2 daughters with) and no amount of counseling could have saved the relationship. It was a very unhealthy one and I was glad to get out while my girls were still young so they didn't have to be directly in the middle of that. I had my own therapy for years after to regain my self-esteem and self-confidence and am now in a very happy, healthy marriage. My breaking point was when I realized I didn't want my girls growing up thinking this was a normal, healthy relationship and attract the same as adults as a result of this role modeling.
I completely understand your plight and am sorry you are going through this. You do say in this post that there are "days of real love and effort" so I take it that means that you are torn and there is still some love left on your part . Including some hope for your marriage and your family? If that's the case, I say do what you can to work on it. I say this only because you have a son and being in a similar situation I am willing to work on things because I cannot imagine being without my son half the time. That would kill me . On the flip side, I wouldn't put my son in harm's way. You say there has been some physical abuse (I do not have that in my situation) so only you know how safe your environment is. If it is at all unsafe then I would suggest you leave for the safety of you and your child. That is first and foremost. Luckily he has gone to counseling with you. Most men are not open to that. I do not suggest you stay in an unsafe environment. Again, only you know what has really transpired. I'm glad to hear his a good dad but he is not sending his son a good/positive message if he abuses you. See if will go to counseling again with you right now. If he harms you in any way then I believe you need to leave. Have everything in order first, of course, as quickly as you can. You can ask your counselor for something for your depression if it too much and you can't seem to come out of it on your own. I only recommend staying if you believe your environment can be a healthy one. Don't put yourself or your child at risk. Feel free to email me if want to. Counseling can help but sometimes it is not enough if someone is unwilling to change their harmful habits for healthy, loving ones If you are living in an unhealthy environment (and in this post it's sounding more like that), then you should consider possibly leaving so you and your son can have some peace and SAFETY! Please take care of yourself!
As the daughter of a marriage counselor, I can tell you that it works, otherwise they'd go out of business : ) Here's what you need to do - you need to find a counselor that BOTH of you feel you can trust. No good counselor is going to "chose someone's side." If you both don't like someone after the initial 2 meetings (got to give it two) then the groundrule has to be that you move on to someone else, even if one of you LOVES the therapist. Finally, a really good therapist will give it some time, and then let you know if s/he really feels that the marriage can be salvaged. I also don't know any good therapist who would counsel a woman to stay with a man who is abusive, or a man to stay with a woman who is manipulating him. In this respect, I encourage you to find a non-religious counselor if you can, as the religious counselors sometimes, but not always, put the matrimonial bond ahead of the people in those bonds.
Best of luck.
I've have counseling with my husband and I personally feel that it was not helpful - it never resolved what I thought we needed to resolve. But something caught my attention in what you wrote...your husband feels justified spending the money because he feels sorry for himself being in a bad marriage - Unless you have an extra $15,000 and have no need for it why would he be so irresponsible? That $15,000 could go to the cost of a divorce and then he wouldn't be in a bad marriage. He sounds as if he's throwing a tantrum. I also seem to remember that you were going to pay for the $15,000 from your personal money. If this is the case I would try to separate your money (open your own account) because he sounds irresponsible regarding money. Good-luck!
Marriage counseling definitely worked for me.
It made me realize without a doubt that leaving was the only option.
I went into it hoping to perhaps salvage an abusive and broken marriage, but what I learned was that my energy was better spent in another direction.
My husband viewed counseling as an opportunity to have someone else in a position of "power" tell me to straighten up and fly right, knock my crap off and start acting like a devoted wife.
It didn't go the way he had planned.
Also....we tried the exercise where one person speaks uninterrupted for 5 minutes and the other person repeats what was said. My husband was completely incapable of listening to me. Even for 5 minutes. When it was his turn to repeat what I said, he just went off on how he felt, and he was abusive but it was because I wasn't supportive enough.....
I can't say it was a waste of time.
Like I said, it didn't save my marriage, but it helped me have a clear and realistic view of what I was dealing with and helped me with my choice.
You should get counseling even if your husband won't go.
You need it for yourself.
Just my opinion.
Best wishes.
It sounds like you're absolutely miserable., And if you're miserable in your life, your son will pick up on that and you may find that your don't have a sweet, happy child any longer because he's not living in a happy environment. It sounds like it's time to go. It will be hard and scarey, change always is, but I bet if you give it some time and put your best foot forward, six months from now you'll find that you are a different person!
I am neither an expert nor do I really know you or your situation so I will definitely not advise you to just leave your marriage! I do definitely applaud your desire to gain more knowledge or "information" about whether or not your marriage is mendable. Counseling can be amazing and though it will be painful at first, you will gain clarity on the situation you don't have now. My husband and I have seen a counselor starting with our engagement and I am so grateful now that we have someone outside the family also invested in our union. Counseling has kept us sane and has seen us through some really hard times and difficult decisions. Do it.
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AK, I know tht you have recieved many words of advice, but I will add my 2 cents and much of it will be a repeat of what I said with your last post.
You knew things were bad and unhealthy and made the choice to have a child. Your child needs to come first in this situation. Since you have the responsibility of making sure that both you and your husband are good and healthy parents. You don't want to be alone yet you sound as if that is exactly what you are. We went to counciling through our medical @ Kaiser and it was very good for us. But we were dealing with the pain of my husbands illness and howit was effecting us. It can only help you to get help on your own and to understand why you wish to stay in a relationship that you describe as a bad marriage for a variety of reasons. Just remember that you each have in-laws and that is an easy excuse for things. Is your conscience clear of beig needy and having expectations that he will never meet? With therepy, you can get to the root of the problem and learn to see yourself in the problem and work on yourself and then work on helping one another to be the very best that you can be. It will be painful and emotionally hard and trying but if you can make it work then it will be the greatest achievement you will ever achieve.