Why Buy the Cow When You Can Get the Milk for Free?

True in some cases, false in others.

BUT I've gotta say, if women put HALF the effort into the picking phase that they do in the planning a wedding phase......just sayin'!

I believe living together before marriage undermines the commitment required to make marriage work. Marriage requires a lot of unselfishness. When you marry you are more willing to share money equally, work as a team, and work through relationship difficulties. Living together says to me, "I'll do part of what it takes, but I'm staying autonomous so I can jump ship if I want to." I don't think you gain anything by easing into commitment.

A married couple has a better foundation for caring for children. There is plenty of data that says children do better with both Dad and Mom around. Since cohabiting couples separate five times more often than married couples, the kids a lot less likely to grow up with both parents. Marriage is a more stable platform for starting a family and growing old together. In my opinion, that is what life is all about.

From what I've seen. The people who are living together OR even just having sex before marriage tend to take quite a bit longer to get married.

My sister has been dating the same guy for almost 11 years now. She's STILL waiting for that ring......... (They've been living together for about 6 years now. But the milk has been free much longer! LOL.)

My husband and I waited till we were married. And very glad we did. Makes being married to him even more special! We will be celebrating 8 years this year!

Anecdotal stories are nice, but the statistics just don't back them up. Cohabitation before marriage makes one less likely to make it to the alter and if one does, divorce rate is higher. Please read the following article http://www.leaderu.com/critical/cohabitation-socio.html. You might also check out Dr. Phil's collection of marriage stats at http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/351.
I met my husband when I was 26 and he was 31 while we were both working and living in Alaska. We did not live together but instead married 16 months later. We were both virgins and remained that way until our wedding day. Talk about a wonderful honeymoon in England and Scotland we enjoyed! 10 years and 3 kids later, we are still crazy about each other and have a wonderful, secure marriage. He was definitely worth the wait! Living together before marriage seems ideal so you can "try out" the situation. However, it's just not that way. A sexual relationship without commitment and mutual respect is just not stable. We wanted our marriage to last a lifetime so we put a lot of work into it before we said "I do". Premarital counseling for 6 months, abstinence, similar religious views, similar spending/saving habits, and similarities in family background helped strengthen our marriage. I highly recommend waiting till after the wedding to move in. It's so worth it!

Why buy the whole pig for just a little sausage?! ;)

I know I am not the norm but my hubby and I both waited for eachother..he worked so hard courting me... We have been married 15 years this month and we are still madly in love...and chasing eachother.

I personally see around me lots of complaining of friends that say their hubbies don't date them anymore or take interest in their goals,dreams,hobbies. I wonder if it is a correllation of the hubby never realy fighting to get his woman. She just made everything so easy for him. I don't know..just a theory I was thinking about. And...I am not just talking about sex. I think alot of the time girls and women throw themselves at men in many ways..but never give the man the chance to have to work hard to go after the woman..so why work hard after marriage.?

My husband says before he and I married,and he was dating ,that the girls were always calling him...dropping by and bringing him goodies...asking him on dates etc. He was totally turned off by that. He said I intrigued him because I didn't do that. He pursued hard and planned creative dates and then a relationship started to develop then I would call him and invite him over for dinner.

But..that is our story. Everyone is different. We personally think "the milk" is for marriage.
Not sure if I even really answered your question. Sooo, yes, I do think that the majority of men that are getting the milk for free find it harder to commit to marriage.

Yes I agree. I think I am conservative with those type of issues. I believe you should live with someone of the opposite sex only after your married.
I am the oldest of 3 kids. I wanted to be a good role model for my younger siblings.

S.:

I would tend to agree with that statement and not just about sex and living together...

Most people don't feel the need to change something if it's working for them - getting it for free - basically....why do all the hard work if I don't have to mentality....

I think that quote was from my post - actually I really meant that in the particular situation the woman really wanted to get married and the man seems to have no intention of doing so. She's moved in with him, they're in his house, he has all the power in the relationship and she's struggling with the questions of "will he ever marry me?" and "how long is too long to wait?". In her situation she removed any motivation by moving in to his house and providing him with all the benefits of marriage and none of the responsibilities.

Our culture is very different than it used to be only a generation ago. More than half of the marriages I know are of people who lived together first. Based on what I've seen it doesn't seem to provide any better indicator of the ability to stay together. I know I've seen statistics that show the divorce rate is no different or may even be higher for those who first lived together.

Some of the longest lasting marriages I've seen are couples who met & married young and in love and grew up together. My DH & I were older and we did live together first - but I can assure you that he would never have married had I not given him an ultimatum. I am older than he and and was almost 36 - we had been living together more than a year at that point. I told him very frankly that I wanted to have kids, and he had 6 months to decide if he wanted to marry me and have kids together with me - in the future - or not. Becuase at the end of the day, my clock was ticking down and I didn't have the time to waste. He said it's not fair, and I agreed - but didn't waver. We were married, bought a house and were pregnant within 12 months.

I would NEVER move in with a guy again - I think it was a huge mistake and I hope that my kids (a boy and a girl) will both be lucky enough to marry and that both spouses wil be in love with eachother when they're young and they can grow up together. I tell my teens all the time that priviledges come with responsibilities - and I now think that moving in together provides for most of the priviledges with very few of the responsibilities. And think about the concerns if one partner gets ill, is hospitalized or even dies. An unmarried partner has almost no right to medical & financial decisions, and has so say in even making funeral arrangements... It generally pretty inconsiderate.

It took more than 10 yrs for my DH and I to mesh our already developed bad habits & quirks and our marriage nearly ended a couple of times - but we stuck it out... and now, against many odds, have a good, solid, supportive & happy marriage - some days even great & fabulous!

I have friends and a sister who lived with their BFs for years and could never get their men to commit. My sister decided to cut bait - went off and lived on her own for a while, met a great guy, moved in right before the wedding because the lease on her apartment was up, and they've been together since -- 5 years or so now.
I never lived with my husband, nor did we "do the deed" before marriage. Some people call me a "goody two shoes" because of that, but you know, I'm so glad I waited. We've been married 22 years this year. I'd do it all over the exact same way.
LBC

My Granny used to say that to me all the time.
I tend to believe it - tho' there are exceptions to every saying.
What works for some, doesn't for others.
People need to find their own path.

God Bless

i moved in with my hussband (then boyfriend...not fiance) in 1999, we got married in 2002......weve been married ever since.

I think these days men buy the milk they have been so enjoying the samples of.

well - the earlier post was talking about moving in and living together, not just "giving your milk away" - LOL

I think it just depends on the people.......but as a rule, I think things move along to marriage faster if you don't live together first. Guys like to conquer - if you have moved in with him, he has "conquered" you so to speak. Marriage is generally not something men dream about like ladies do......

Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone would get married NOT having lived together first. I won't even buy a pair of shoes without trying them on first, why would I make a lifetime commitment to a man without living together for a while?

(For the record, my DH and I are coming up on our 10 year wedding anniversary and lived together for a year and a half before getting married.)

So maybe those of us who cohabited first (for 23 years actually) before marriage don't make it to the altar as often and/or divorce more because we are willing to end a relationship that is not working. Rather than remain in an unhappy one forever because we promised to. Oh, and my mom was happy I chose to live with DH first. We are currently married 4 years.

The cow comment also assumes that men want sex and women don't. Not sure what world that is.

Also for some people marriage is just not a big deal. DH and I have been together 27 years, owned a business together for 15 years, a house for 12 years, had a child for 5-1/2 years. We got married because it made the legalities easier, period. To us the time together, business, home and child are commitment, the marriage is a piece of paper.

'So now I'm praying for end of time/to hurry up and arrive/ 'cause if I've got to spend another minute with you/ I don't think that I can really survive/ I'd never break my promise/or forget my vow/ But God only knows what I could do right now/ I'm praying for the end of time - Meatloaf

My brother and his second wife lived together for awhile before getting married. Once they were married my brother's attitude changed to I'm now your husband and you must obey me. Divorce # 2. lol My brother still doesn't get it.

I've also known of people who didn't have sex until they were married. Their marriages didn't last very long. The ones I know of personally were driven to marriage by their sex drive. Doesn't work for many.

I think a lot depends on the couple. My sister and BIL cohabitated and are married and doing well. My DH and his ex cohabitated and it went up in flames and they divorced. One thing is that DH says had he not been living with her and had she not gotten pregnant, he likely would not have married her, so there were flags before they got married. I chose not to live with DH because frankly I spent enough time with him and didn't feel it was necessary to "test drive" before we got married. I think part of the issue is keeping one foot out the door. Either you're in or you're out, IMO. Same with feeling like "Well, we can just get divorced." If you're always thinking that way, you're not really committed.

I wondered how much religion plays into this and how it may effect the study results. I followed the link below and the article is posted on a Christian website. It seems to me that many people who are still virgins and don't cohabitate before marriage do it because of religious convictions. Are those same people less liking to throw in the towel and divorce if the realtionship withers? I'm always leary of the results of a single study as statistics can be tricky.
I cannot imagine not living with my husband before tying the knot. We lived together for a long time, we met so young and just weren't at the point in our lives where either wanted to be married. That being said there was no doubt in either of our minds that we would marry and have kids which is exactly what we doid about 16 years ago. I think the situation where one person is dying to get hitched and the other is dragging their heels is probably not going to result in a happy marriage. Maybe the solution for some is to only live together with the understanding that both people want it to end in marriage. All those women who want more than anything to be married and are waiting around for the guy to agree to it are fooling themselves into thinking it will work forever.

NO! I hate that stupid, antiquated saying! I say why should I buy a car without test driving it? And I mean all of it -not just sex! I find it interesting that in our large friend group everyone lived together for 6 months to 2 years before marrying, and most of us have now been married a long time (my 11th anniversary is in July and we're on the low end -many are around 20+ years). Not bad for a bunch of heathens! Ironically, the one split our group has had occurred between a couple who lived together for 21 years! He's now happily married though to a woman he lived withfor a year before proposing. There was no way I was going to commit myself for life to someone I hadn't even lived with!

Seems we forget that sex is usually something that gets better with time. We learn what makes another person tick. Seems an impatient line of reasoning that you'd move on to another just because something didn't immediately click with someone right off the bat.
I laugh a little at the 'live together to see if they can live with the other person's quirks' group. I probably wouldn't have married my husband if I would have known some of his 'quirks.' But I did, after knowing him a relatively short amount of time, and without living together first. You know what? It makes me AND him work harder to be a better person, to acknowledge our failings and improve ourselves. We will be married seven years and we have three children. He is an amazing father and husband. It would seriously take an act of God to break our marriage up.
Statistics are statistics for a reason. You CAN live happily together after living together. People do it all the time. However, MOST of the experiences of others that I have seen have proven to me that it's a bad idea. I don't know a single person who 'waited' that has regretted their decision. On the other hand, I've known many women that lived together with men they 'hoped' to marry and are now single mothers.

My grandmother told ME to live with a man first, "...because if he is no good in bed it isn't going to last!" Mind you I was 18 at the time and she was 84 when she said that! I think living together doesn't cause more trouble in getting to a marriage commitment, if it is the right situation. If it isn't the right situation the commitment may be delayed, but the lawyers fees are avoided :) I lived with my ex-fiance...it was the best thing I ever did. If I had chosen NOT to live with him first and we got married and THEN moved in together I would have had to go through a divorce. I lived with my husband for 2 years before we got married, this summer with be our 11th wedding anniversary.

I know a lot of people do not believe in cohabitation - neither of my husband or my parents were THRILLED about it when we did it but we were adults. I think it was better for us because we honestly fought the most we ever have the first six months we were living together. It was the getting used to living with him, his habits, the chores, etc that we had to work out. And I think if that was our first six months of marriage, then it would have seemed like a rocky beginnging to our marriage.

But then again I also believe that sex before marriage is okay - because I surely would not marry someone I was not sexually compatible with.

But that is just me!

We moved in together in 1986..... NOT ENGAGED

Married in 1988 (no biggie wedding, we eloped and didn't tell anyone we were getting married)

We are still married.

My hubby and I moved in together just a few months into our relationship. We were engaged 6 months into our relationship and married just over a year later. We've been married 3.5 years, we have two beautiful babies, and a pretty stupid dog. I have to say, we are ridiculously happy. He's my rock and I'm his...well, his shovel, I guess since he tells me that he'd never try out any of his ideas without me to "change his inertia".

I don't think living together can be generalized as a good or a bad idea.

For myself, I NEVER intended to get married. Living together let me figure out that this man who told me he was there for me and loved me meant what he said. Let me be clear, I didn't move in with him as a "trial" marriage. We moved in together because we are stupidly crazy about each other. He changed my views on marriage and commitment just by existing. I don't regret a thing and I plan to advise my kids to do the same thing IF THEY FEEL IT'S RIGHT FOR THEM.

And for the nay-sayers, I feel that if co-habitators have a "lower" marriage rate than others, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe a trial is a positive if it lets you see that you're not compatible with someone. I'd rather see a couple live together and figure out it's not going to last than NOT live together, get married, and realize you can't stand the person 24 hours a day and end up divorced.

Yes I do. My former best friend has been living with her fiancée for 5 ish years, and engaged for 7. They are NEVER going to get married. He's getting everything he wants from her without actually stepping up and setting a date. one reason why she's my "former" best friend b/c she just doesn't get it.

I know I had 6 marriage proposals 'giving away milk' before I was 22.

((Technically more, but from 6 men total))

I don't think it's always true, I think it depends on the relationship. I think that couples sometimes decide to live together because they are already spending so much time together and do it for financial reasons. Ideally, waiting until you are at least engaged is the best way to go in my opinion...that way you are both at least on the same page as far as what you want out of the relationship. I would never suggest moving in with someone who doesn't have the same goals for the relationship...it'll only cause unhappiness.

I think sometimes men will drag their feet more about marriage if you are already living together. My hubby did and after I found out I was preggo with #1, I basically told him '____@____.com or get off the pot"!!!!! But in a nicer way :)
He proposed 2 days later.

It really depends on who is milking you. ;)

Some guys stay with the cow no matter when they started getting the milk. I married a guy many years after he'd been getting his "free milk". If you have to use your milk as a selling point to get a guy to hitch to you, maybe he's not the guy for you.

I think it depends on whether the relationship is right/was meant to be. My DH and I had lived together for a year when he popped the question. We both knew "this was it" before we moved in together but didn't want to scare each other off LOL!

I know many co-habitators that get married. Most prefer the availability to live together FIRST - so they can see if they can live with the other person's quirks. Maybe so many don't work out because they realize that they cannot live with the other for whatever reasons.

I lived with my fiance almost 3 full years before getting married. We took so long because he wouldn't agree to certain things and I refused to marry him until he did. He had one year left to change his mind before I told him I was going to move on.

Not necessarily.

I moved in with my now-husband when we were engaged. We got married 8 months later. Had we not been engaged prior to moving in, I think I still would have moved in with him because we both knew the commitment was there and marriage was the path we were on.

I do think that many people who have children as unmarrieds tend to stay unmarried. I have zero proof, stats, or resources to back up my claim but it just seems like out comes the baby and everything else other than a legal marriage gets in the way of making the jump.

Lived together for 2 years, now married for 18. Even though we were living together, my husband i the one who had to ask me several times to marry him before i'd agree to get engaged!

No I don't believe it.
My husband and I have been together eight years - lived together for five before getting married. Only reason we put it off as long as we did was because we had some debt/credit issues that we needed to get cleared up first so that we wouldn't wreck our credit rating when we got married.
And I would NEVER marry anyone that I hadn't lived with first. If I had lived with my first husband before marrying him, I would have known that he had a mean swing when he was drunk. When we were dating, he was always on his best behavior from the time he picked me up until the time he brought me home.

I don't know, but they do have a higher divorce rate, from what I heard.
I imagine that if two people are living together that the actual wedding might seem a bit of a pain to plan, pay for, etc. I could believe that it might be true. Not sure though. :)

Hubby and I lived together in an apartment for a year and a half, got married, almost a year after we got married we bought our house and this year will be our 9 year anniversary and we are as happy as can be.

WOW.
I lived with my ex and had a kids b4 marriage. Notice I say ex.
I live with my BF now and on our first date we were walking around in these Botanical gardens and saw a wedding and he said "this is a great place to make a Huge mistake" meaning marriage. He said he didn't want to get married again.
fast forward 15 months and we r planning for October...

My sister lived with a BF right after college (in hong Kong) and she thought it was a huge mistake and created relationship issues so she refused to move in with her now husband until after they got married (its 7 yrs and 3 kds later)

As for waiting until marriage to do the deed. i honestly can say I don't know anyone who did that.

No, in my experience it's not been true. My (now) husband & I met in the summer of '97, moved in together by that December. We lived together until the following May when I broke my ankle & needed to live back at my parent's house for a little while. We got married in January of '99 & have been ever since.

Of course everyone is different & like I always tell the young people I work with, every relationship is like its own little universe with its own set of rules

Little different for me. I met my husband in the fall of 02...by July of 03 I moved two states away...long distance was difficult and the only way we could be together was for me to move and live with him. One of the conditions was that we would buy our own place together. we lived in his place while our house was being built.

I never really wanted to get married and would have been completely fine with spending the rest of our lives without a marriage certificate. We had already pledge ourselves to one another and I was good with that. We married 18 months after I moved and are still going strong. So I don't necessarily agree but can see the other side of things...but it really depends on how one approaches the situation and if people talk about expectations, goals etc before the move.

Nope. Lived together for 4 years, had a son, getting married in 3 weeks :)

I could not imagine not living with someone before making the marriage commitment! There are too many things you'll never know about a person until you live with them.

Nope. We lived together 1st. Started in an apartment and then bought a house. 3 years later, we married and we have been happily married for 11.5 years and have 2 wonderful children. :)

Everyone I know that lived together first, did get married in a timely manner, except my aunt and uncle. once my aunt said now or never, they got married and have been married for 16 years. I think if you are strong enough to get married or walk away, then you won't have trouble getting to a marriage commitment. If you do have trouble getting to marriage after you live together, that's a huge red flag and maybe you need to move on.

I say to each his own. My husband and I chose not to live together before we got married. I've never wanted to live with someone before I got married because then what was there to look forward to once you were married? Just my opinion.

I've seen it work out both ways. I don't know which is better or if one is. As long as it works for the couple that's all that matters :)

I'm a little apalled at the people saying that married parents are such a better foundation for raising kids....or kids need a mom and dad who are married....I see on this site all the time women complaining about their husbands...how they work too much, don't help with the kids, etc....while I was a single mom for almost 2 years, I now live with my kids' dad, and have no desire to marry. I like that we both choose to be there together, with our kids, even without a piece of paper saying we "belong" to each other. I'm probably moreso the reason there's no marriage commitment.....I guess I just don't understand why marriage takes such a precedent over love. If the love is there, and a healthy relationship is presented to the kids, we believe in God and go to church and pay our bills and do everything else married people do.....who's to say our foundation isn't as strong as anyone elses?

For the people I know living together, yes.

My husband didn't live with his ex before he married her and she ended up being crazy - literally. He SO regrets not living with her beforehand - it would have saved him a divorce and ten years of his life (not to mention a ton in alimony - ugh)! When it was our turn, it was more complicated since he had/has custody of his son. In VA, an unmarried couple is techincally not supposed to live together with a minor present. We were concerned about his his ex making trouble but I was insistent on living together ahead of time. I had lived with 2 roommates before (1 a dream, 1 a nightmare) so I knew how hard it was to live with people and I wanted to make sure we would mesh. That said, I wasn't willing to give up my home without a commitment! So he timed our engagement knowing my apt. lease was running out less than 2 months later. I was able to give notice that I wasn't going to sign another lease but we still had time to explain that I was moving in to his son, to announce our engagement and for us to make room for my things. I would have liked a longer engagement (8 months) but given that he had compromised and we were, technically, committing a "crime" we moved ahead and got married. That was almost 6 years ago!