Who Is Right? - Mission Viejo,CA

I'm with you. You can't keep kids in a bubble. Bad idea. They need to learn to deal with ALL kinds of people!

outside influences can have a GREAT affect on anyone...children or adults..."you are who you surround yourself with" my mom has always said this to me and it's very true, based off my own experiences

My son is school friends with so-called "trouble makers". He never gets in trouble and he always tells the teacher on his friend when need arises. I don't discourage the friendship. 1st grade kids are just kids, these are not adults or even teenagers we're talking about, just kids. You have no idea what that boy is going through or how having the kind friendship of your son will effect him.

As children get older I agree that friendships should be limited if a child is proving himself to be someone who makes poor choices. My older sons have 2 friends that fit this category, we do not allow our sons to go to their house but we do allow those boys at our house with our supervision. The influence our loving family has on those boys is starting to show in their outlook on life.

It's not really a matter of "right and wrong" because your friend has made her decision. Having said that, your son will likely be better able to deal with challenging individuals as he gets older b/c he will know when to use his judgment and avoid a situation, not necessarily a specific person. You are teaching your son to make his own choices regarding friendships and actions. He can be friends with a troublemaker and make the choice not to get involved.

If it were my child, I would continue telling him that his friend is making choices that are not good ones, but I wouldn't "forbid" him to play with the child at recess.

I am going to be in the minority here. :) I don't think you should encourage your children to spend a large amount of time with children who are known to be trouble makers. "Bad company ruins good morals." The child will not come out unscathed even if he doesn't imitate everything he sees, his view of authority will be colored. I think that if the child wants to spend time with someone of bad character, then it must be done under close supervision by their parents. This way, the naughty child will have some restraint on his behavior, and when he does not restrain himself, it can be quickly corrected.

I'm with you on this one. I had friends that were troublemakers when I was growing up but that didn't mean that I felt compelled to follow their lead. In fact, I actually think that is partially where I earned some of my confidence from; I learned that I could be part of a clique to some degree (since we did have our differences, the friendships were never close knit and we eventually drifted apart) and still be my own person.

That's just my own personal experience with this whole issue.

You are correct, not your friend. Your role is to educate your child to do the right thing DESPITE what others do; not to shield him from the realities of the world.

I've always found that their friends' mistakes gave my children a WAY better education than my yakking at them.

Even grown men have friends that "get in trouble", it's just the way it is. I think learning the skills to deal with these types begins in school. Unless my son got in some bad trouble with the other "bad" kids, I'm sure I wouldnt stop them from playing together.

I think you are both right in your own way. Your friend has decided to discourage the friendship--thats fine. Whats not fine is for her to tell you to discourage it too! You are your child's parent- you make the decisions. I think that since you are teaching your child at home whats acceptable, thats fine! Its really not your friends business-- if your comfortable with what your doing--don't listen to anyone else!

Molly

I don't think this is a matter of right and wrong. Bad character does currupt good judge, at the same time children may see the good in someone that an adult over looks. My daughter now 21 had friends who drank, smoked some were sexually active, but I taught my daughter how to be a strong woman (girl) and it served her well, she always spoke up about her beliefs and she stay true to her up bringing and to herself. J.

Updated

I don't think this is a matter of right and wrong. Bad character does currupt good judge, at the same time children may see the good in someone that an adult over looks. My daughter now 21 had friends who drank, smoked some were sexually active, but I taught my daughter how to be a strong woman (girl) and it served her well, she always spoke up about her beliefs and she stay true to her up bringing and to herself. J.

Updated

I don't think this is a matter of right and wrong. Bad character does currupt good judge, at the same time children may see the good in someone that an adult over looks. My daughter now 21 had friends who drank, smoked some were sexually active, but I taught my daughter how to be a strong woman (girl) and it served her well, she always spoke up about her beliefs and she stay true to her up bringing and to herself. J.

Updated

I don't think this is a matter of right and wrong. Bad character does currupt good judge, at the same time children may see the good in someone that an adult over looks. My daughter now 21 had friends who drank, smoked some were sexually active, but I taught my daughter how to be a strong woman (girl) and it served her well, she always spoke up about her beliefs and she stay true to her up bringing and to herself. J.

there are several girls who are considered 'mouthy' in my kids' classrooms. they're nice to my girls though, even thoough my girls notice these girls being mean to others, or getting in trouble in school. i have explained to my girls if they do what the other girls are doing they will get in trouble in school and then they will have privileges taken away at home. they're in 1st grade too, and should know right from wrong. so far so good. i don't think i would forbid them to play with certain kids, as long as they understand not to be followers, and to use better judgement as to how to treat others. i trust my kids make the right decisions. it is never too early to teach them they have to take responsibility for their behavior.

I agree with you. I teach my kids to reach out an dbe friends with everyone- especially if they see someone who has no one to play with. We also talk about acceptable behavior and what to do if friends are doing things you don't agree with or know it's wrong. They know to get an adult if someone is being mean and to stand up for others who are being picked on. When they come home and tell me "so and so did this" we talk about why it's important not to do that particular thing(like hitting someone or cutting in line) We also talk about the importance of being a good influence to our friends and family without being snotty about it.
My oldest will talk to his friend if they are doing stuff they are not supposed to and let them know he is not okay with it.
I have told my daughter before that I did not want her playing with a girl in her class because the girl was always being mean to my daughter- I do regret that, I think I could have handled it better, but at the time my mother bear instinct was coming out. She was constantly being treated mean by this little girl and would come home crying, but she'd want her over to play all the time. ( we have moved so I don't have to deal with that anymore) but I think that singling that little girl out was the wrong way to do things.
Unfortunately this is something that you have to deal with your whole life and it is easier when you learn how to deal with a trouble maker when you are younger rather than trying to avoid them at all times. Who knows, maybe this little boy is the good influence this other child needs. I think as long as you are talking with your child about what is expected of him and what is acceptable behavior- he will be fine.
~C.

I don't think there is a clear answer. Your friend has already made her decision, but as for your son, I think you are right to continue to allow your son to play with the trouble maker at school. It is forcing him to put the skills you placed in him to work. It is good for him to acknowledge that his friend is not behaving. He is allowed to show what he considers right and wrong. However, I also wouldn't overly encourage the relationship. If he wants to play with the child at school, that's fine, but I wouldn't be asking if the two wanted to have a regular play date after school. Once in a while, great...you could maybe rub off on him, but I'm not sure I would do it all the time. As much as we don't think the people around us affect us, they do. I hope you can figure out a good balance, and good luck!

I think you are both right. Ultimately, what matters is the way your son behaves. Your son can see the difference between right and wrong in this situation....therefore, since he is well behaved, and not showing any signs of wanting to mimic the other child, it's all good! You don't need to restrict playtime or discourage friendship.

On the other hand, other children may be more vulnerable to exposure to bad behavior, and will mimic the behavior. In that case, restrict the friendship.

It all depends on the child.

All I have to say is that some of the best lessons about behavior my kids ever learned was from being around naughty kids.

I think that playing at recess at school with a child who regularly gets in trouble is a far cry from allowing them unsupervised to get into trouble together. For heaven's sakes, my son is one of the most well behaved kids ever and he used to get paired up with the trouble makers in class in hopes that he would be a good influence at school. I never had a problem with that. My son didn't automatically start drawing on walls or flooding the toilets because he was exposed to some other kid who did things like that. There was a boy in his class for years that was in trouble for something every time he turned around. None of the other kids followed suit.
The boy was taken away from his parents because they were drug addicts and he was being raised by his elderly grandmother who had zero patience or stamina for such an unruly child. He wasn't a "bad" kid as far as being violent or mean. He did stuff like dump a whole thing of glue on the table during crafts or hide puzzle pieces on purpose. If he wasn't literally tied to someone, he would run off and hide on field trips.
He had issues that I never worried about my son picking up on.
I can see not inviting a child like that to your house for safety reasons if nothing else, but to stop all contact at school if they're not getting into trouble at recess seems too much to me.
It's not a right or wrong thing, but banning your child from being around kids who get in trouble at school in kindergarten or first grade is not the answer. It's not the path I chose and my kids turned out very well adjusted and never got in trouble at school.
Like I said, kids can learn things from each other and it's not always bad.

The key is knowing your kid. Of the seven kids I'm raising only two of the seven are easily influences by their peers. One is an adult now (19) and on her own beacuse she makes bad choices. She equates independance with being rebellious. The other is 14. We intentionally have him in environments with positive and relatively obedient children.

Your son seems to have a strong sense of self and right and wrong. I would make the same decision you have made. Maybe this boy can learn from your son instead of the other way around.

My question would be what tools is this teacher using to get the best out of this student. Perhaps he needs more positive reinforcement instead of constant punishment. If you are told you are bad all the time, then bad is all you know how to be. Happens alot with boys.

I'm with you. Our strong family influences our son WAY more than any kids. Also him noticing the other boy getting in trouble is a good sign that he knows it's not the thing to do.

I think of this as beginning steps into independence. It's his friendship. I will offer insights to help him notice things, but the decision is his. I will also non-judgmentally point out how the boy's life is tougher because of his choices.

I remember reading a commentary on the show "Leave it to Beaver". Beaver had a friend that was always doing the wrong thing. The article talked about the argument of having (whatever his name was) not be allowed over because of all the trouble. However with the other kid being there, Beaver was able to see how much harder his life was because of all the trouble and it was a good lesson in what NOT to do without actually doing the wrong thing. - I can see how that would be valuable.

If her son is behaved and the other kid isn't, they'll drift apart fairly soon anyway.

Each child is different. I do admit I like your approach. I think with most things the more parents "forbid" or try to stop something the kid ends up doing the opposite. You even wrote how your friend told her son he's "forbidden" to play with this boy but he does anyway. Now, of course bad behavior is easy to pick up. Making your child aware of bad behavior and talking about displaying proper behavior and why makes more sense to me. I try to encourage respect, don't let anyone disrespect you. There could be many reasons why kids act out, doesn't mean they are a bad person, they just need to change their behavior.

I'm with you! We had an instance earlier this year with my son acting like a kid in his class who wound up being very special needs and leaving the classroom. My son, the drama and attention hound, decided it would be a great way to get extra attention! I told him that I never wanted him to be mean to the other kid, but he could NOT act like him! We discussed being a leader and being a follower and how he should be a leader with his good behavior.

There's another kid in his class who is a trouble maker, and he talks about it all the time, so we remind him -you be the leader! Don't be mean to X, but don't act like him! Especially at these young ages, we don't know everything that's going into a kid being "bad" at school, and I want to teach my son how to behave regardless of what others are doing AND to understand that just because someone acts strangely or badly doesn't mean you have to shun them. I know the kid who acts horribly in his class has a 17 year old mother, and that pretty much explains it all (yep -he's 4 -it's not a typo).

We have to teach our kids these things NOW because they're always going to be faced with less than wonderful choices and "friends" in school and the world. Better to learn how to deal with it in 1st grade when it involves another kid's behavior than in 7th grade when it involves another kid's drugs!

I side with your friend and would absolutely discourage the friendship. In our school a red card is a SERIOUS infraction. And to get one almost every day is unnacceptable. It is extremely naive to think that this will not influence your child in some way. So what are you going to say to him when he is 12 and instead of red cards his friends are getting detention and he is hanging out with them(and of course detentions at this age could mean drugs and other dangerous offenses). "Oh-its OK b/c I know that YOU behave yourself. When teachers and other parents see you together they will just KNOW that you are a good boy." Sorry, life doesn't work that way. I train my boys fron a young age to steer clear of the troublemakers. It is hypocritical to jump in, after you have been saying ALL ALONG to play with everyone even the troublemakers, and say that now you are unable to play with your friends. And-if we send a message to be friends with even those who will go out of their way to defy authority how do we expect our kids to be able to use good judgment when they are choosing friends as they get older....after all-Mom DID say that its all good...and we should not limit our associations with anyone.

I agree with you. I had some trouble maker friends... That didn't mean I got into trouble.

Very tough issue. Since these boys are still really young the fascination with this boy will probably pass reasonably quickly. He's probably a firely kid with a great personality - and he could be getting int otrouble more beucase he's just an active kid with a teacher who can't handle him, or he's got ADHD, etc.

On the other hand - this kid could really be a kid from a troubled home. My son had a firend in 3rd and 5th grade that was trouble. He'd do the complete opposite of what you asked him to do when he came over to play, he touched my daughter's breast - she's three yrs older and was completely shocked!!! He went into her room and broke something of hers on purpose.... Meanwhile the mother seems completely normal - if not a little flakey - but there's obviously something awry at that household. During 5th grade i told my son that while they can play during recess he'll never go to this boys's house again, and this kid is never coming over our house again - so DON'T ask. He did ask a few times - and so did the boy's mom. But I never gave in. This boy knows about adult things that no 10-11 yr old should know - there's just something wrong. As parents we are responsible to be the gatekeeper. No matter how well they're taught at homem, outside influences will impact our kids. It's our job to minimize them when at all possible.

you both have valid points; however, I personally feel that if My children are understanding that his behavior is bad and it is not abusive to them (sexual or physical or emotional) then as long as he continues to show good judgment he can pick his friends. I would also keep telling him this rule as well. I try to tech my kids that if your friend is doing something bad he WILL get into trouble if you do it too you WILL get into trouble, do you want to get into trouble? If he threatens his friendship with you then he is no friend at all.

I think that your son is learning a valuable lesson. I learned from watching my sister get in trouble. I wouldn't have a problem saying, you might want to play with John tomorrow if Bryan keeps getting in trouble, but forbidding the friendship isn't the right approach.

Maybe it will go the other way and your son's good behavior will rub off on the other boy!!

I do the same with my kids. Kids need to be able to make decisions for themselves and if they know what behavior is right/acceptable when they are younger, they will better be able to handle peer pressure when they are older. My kids have had friends that do not study, do not behave, etc but have been able to decide what they should do versus what others do.