Toddler Question

Mine were tough at 3yrs and 4 yrs more than 2 yrs. About the sleeping, they say they are more likely to stay is they fall alseep there. So at 4 there is no reason she cannot fall asleep in her room and her bed. It may take some time. Maybe you could start laying bedside her, then sit bedside the bed then sit at the door way then have her go on her own. This process may take several weeks. If you give in the you have to start over and she knows that you have a breaking point and will keep pushing til you break. It is tough when they cry but stay strong! Good Luck!

Well, my opinion won't be popular, but I enjoy sleeping with my 2 year old daughter! I have 3 kids and I know just how fast they grow. My 5 year old son is already growing out of the "snuggle" phase, so I'm sucking up EVERY minute with my youngest! And my 20 year old daughter, well she's already in her 2nd year of college and I'm still trying to figure out where the time went??
Before you know it, your daughter will want to spend more time with friends than with you, so enjoy it now :)
PS-maybe if your little one gets enough sleep, her mood may improve. I know my kids get very whiny when they're tired!

Technically, if she just turned 4 she really isn't a toddler anymore. As much as you love her, you aren't doing her any favors by always giving in to her wants and demands. I know it's hard. I have an only and he is the light of MY life. However, you do not want to create a brat. Please do not allow her to manipulate you or this is how she will learn to deal with you. She will also try this with other people in her life. If she whines, tell her you can't understand her when she talks in that tone of voice. Ask her to use her big girl voice. Be fair, firm and consistent and you will raise a child that everyone adores. Good luck!

Hi K.,

it sounds like you've already come to a decent resolution, and there is a lot of great advice, but I just want to say what I have said before -- you just need to do what works best for you and your family. Every situation is different. Each child's (and parent's) needs -- different.

No, you don't want to raise a brat -- but you don't want to be a tyrant either. I like the 'Matress Fairy' idea! But you don't want her getting spoiled.

We're going through something very similar with V these days. She started day school this fall, and the change in her behavior was immediate. She is emulating the bahavior of a lot of the other girls -- whining, back talk -- "cool" had snuck into her vocabulary ?!?!?!? Plus, she's not getting the rest she needs. They still lay down in the afternoons for about an hour, but nobody really rests. Plus, it's a much earlier morning!

At any rate, it's been driving me nuts -- and have started really keeping track of the issues that make me lose my temper (or want to) with her. The dawdling is huge, not listening, and then -- the whining! I have started telling her that I don't understand her when she talks like that, and it makes her slow down and speak normally. (she's also a thumb sucker, so that tactic helps get her thumb out of her mouth and have a conversation with us.)

it's a struggle though.

she also won't stay in bed for love or money. she is still in the convertible toddler bed, and really needs to move into a twin or full - size! she's only three, and about as tall as i was at 8! hoping to use the long weekend to get her out of the crib and into a more appropriate set her up.

Hoping a more "comfy" set up might entice her to stay put all night. Hoping that more and better sleep will improve the situation for all of us!

best

~~ Trish the sleep deprived.

As far as getting in your bed in the middle of the night, I would first rule out whether she is sick or if there is anything physically wrong with her.

If there isn't, then you just need to CIO with her. You said that you are a sucker for her & she knows it. You just need to ignore that, if you really want her out of your bed. CIO is teaching her to soothe herself & put herself to sleep.

My daughter started whining a month after she turned 3. I heeded my Family Practioners advice (she has a daughter, so she knows what she is talking about). She advised me to say "I can't hear your" when my daughter started whining, and it works. It goes along with the ear surgery story. My daughter only whined a bit before she learned that it wouldn't work. I still use that phrase occasionally, but I haven't had to use it so much. It was hard to say at first, but then it becomes second nature to say whenever someone is whining.

You might also want to explore creating a good behaviour chart to encourage your daughter to sleep in her own bed. If she falls asleep in her bed, she gets a star; if she stays in her bed, she gets another star. After she has earned so many stars (say 14 for a whole week of sleeping well), she can earn a special treat or activity. I know there is a book about using charts to modifiy behaviour; ask at your library to see if they have it (keywords: charts, behaviour modification). Also, try putting yourself into time out instead of your daughter. If she is being awful, you go to a quiet spot and ignore her. It drives kids crazy, and for me at least, works instantly.

SuperNanny encourages you to put children back into bed when they get out, no matter how much they cry. I guess they eventually pass out from exhaustion; then they learn that sleeping in their own bed is the way it is going to be. Maybe over the weekend start retraining her to sleep in her bed. Everytime she gets out, you have to put her back in, no matter how much she cries about it.

I'll probably get into trouble for saying this. I truly believe that dog training and child rearing are not that dissimiliar. Parents have to be in charge, consistent, fair and kind. Right now your daughter is trying to train you into giving her her own way, much like a dog will take advantage of you if you aren't aware of what they are up to. Also, you can help your daughter develop into a person you and others will like, you don't have to just abandon her to nature.

When my daughter was born she didn't sleep for three months. I thought she would be a terrible sleeper, like I was as a child. But by working with her and giving her a good routine she sleeps very well. My problem as a child is that my mom didn't realize that children have to be put to bed, she would just tell me to go to bed (like a three year old will do that).

Good luck with your daughter.

My daughter got like this at age 4 and the tantrums were horrendous. Finally my ped told me she was old enough to understand the concept of privelidges and to start taking them away. She gets a warning with what she will loose if she doesn't stop and then it goes away. She was stunned when she got left behind with my husband while I took her brother swimming one day because of a bad tantrum. I dare to say that she just turned 5 and it has started getting better. We get a lot of sassy back talk but it is better than what it was. As for the nighttime problems, I think you have to do what you can tolerate and realize that you are doing the best you can. We let her sleep with the light on (wonderful for the high electric bills). If she gets up early in the evening, I put her back to bed. If it is early morning, (after 4A), I put a sleeping bag on the floor of my room and let her sleep there. If I put her in my bed she gets too comfy and I don't sleep well.

I have a 6 year old girl and when she turned 4 she started the whining thing as well. We didn't have the trouble with terrible 2's but when the 4's hit my husband and I started wondering where our little girl went. We tried everything with the whining we tried ignoring it and it made her whine more, we tried punishing her it made her angry. So one day we turned it into a game. We made up an elaborate story how we went to the doctor's and had our ears fixed so we could no longer hear whining. The when she did whine we just ignored it and would occassionally remind her about our ear surgery. She would just laugh, repeat her question in a normal voice, and not get upset about it. It took a few months to totally rid ourselves of the whining and it stills appears occasionally but now she knows it won't work and doesn't take it personally.

As far as the sleeping thing goes its time to be firm with her. At 4 she should have some type of understanding that she should be sleeping in her own bed not in Mom and Dad's. Start off by having a talk with her, since she just turned 4 turn it into a right of passage. Make it a big deal that she's big now and big girls sleep in their own beds. Then work on getting a bed time routine going. Do something quiet and special with her right before getting ready for bed like playing a game, doing a craft (not TV it can be too stimulating). Then do the teeth and bathroom thing. Then get her in her bed and read a few books to her. You determine the number not her because before you know it you'll be reading until midnight. Then tuck her in tightly and tell her you'll see her in the morning and walk out. If she gets out of bed firmly but gently send her back to her room, don't repeat the tucking in process. There will be screaming and crying but be persistant its for her own good. If she's terribly opposed to being alone in her room you can start off gradually. Sit on the floor in her room until she drifts off (just ignore her but be in the room). Each day gradually move yourself farther away from her until you're sitting outside her room. The ability to fall asleep is a "learned" process and it will be hard for her since she is older but she needs to do this in order to grow into a healthy adult. Hope this helps.

>>When we try to put her to back in her bed she cries which pull at my heart strings. I am a sucker and she knows it!!!! <<

well, there ya go. you already know the answer.
we all love our kids, K.. loving our kids doesn't mean giving them what they want whenever they whine or cry.
just say no.
khairete
S.

First, I think it's totally normal for kids to want to sleep snuggled up with their parents. From what I can tell, it sounds like all kids try to do this. I'm not sure why so many parents don't want their kids sleeping with them. Personally I love having my little monkeys snuggled up next to me. But that is each family's decision.

Second, as for the crying, I agree it is completely heart-wrenching to hear our little ones crying and I feel like such a mean ogre when I have to emotionally push my child away instead of giving him a big hug and anything else he wants. But we have to keep telling ourselves that they need the tough love sometimes and they have to learn that crying will not get them what they want. At least I'm hoping they will learn that - my oldest is only three and has been having his terrible two's for awhile now, so I'm still waiting for it to work! But he knows I still love him even when I feel mean.

I can only really answer your first question about the whining. It is my belief that we moms must stand strong when the kids are whining. Simply tell her in no uncertain terms that this is the way it is (going to bed for example)and stick to your guns. YOu can give her some control over her bedtime routine though. What PJ's to wear, what book to read, when to take a bath etc. but when it is bedtime, stand firm and be consistent. Kids want control of their lives so our job is to give the kids the illusion of control. But if you give into the whining, it will only get worse. My oldest went through this stage and we stood tough and ignored the whining. It worked, fairly quickly. Our other two were much easier!! YOu don't have to yell or be mean but be firm and stick to your guns, your life will become more pleasant in a short amount of time. Good Luck!!

K.,
You're exactly right 3's and 4's are worse than 2's!
You also hit the nail on the head when you said "I am a sucker and she knows it". You need to nip the whining or you'll be in for a long difficult road later on. The minute you give in and respond to whining she learns what your breaking point is and simply outlasts you. You must be in charge. You need to develop a plan and stick to it. Consistency, consistency, consistency. Next time she whines, tell her you do not 'hear' whining and ask her to please use a 'big girl voice'. Example how you would like her to speak and then put your plan in motion.
If she whines, the first time remind her that's not the way we ask for something, and IGNORE the request. She will continue to whine because she is doing a learned behavior. She still thinks you're going to give in -- YOU must be strong. The minute you give in your plan must start all over.
I have been through this process, at the instruction of a psychologist friend, and it is hard. But extremely effective. It will not fix the problem immediately, but you will see a change in behavior within a couple of days. (beware that even when she learns the proper technique, she'll revert to her old ways from time to time...be firm. Don't give in, even once. You'll pray for strength, and He'll give it to you. The primary thing you must remember is NOT TO GIVE IN. You are the parent, she is a 4 year old, she must be groomed in acceptable behavior. Trust me you are not alone in this. Every parent has had this issue at some point. Some still have whining teenagers, and some nipped it.
Prepare for a tantrum or two when their old method no longer gets results. This is to be ignored too.... it's an attention getting device. If it doesn't work, they will eventually use the method that you've instructed them to use. The Big Girl voice, will get the desired result. Naturally, the request must be appropriate... you'll not give a 4 year old a sharp knife just because they ask nicely!! HA!
And with that, you might want to implement the rule, "NO means NO, don't ask again". These things have worked magically in our house.
Again, it won't happen overnight, and yes, she will revert to whining from time to time -- because she will forget, after all she's 4. But the simplicity of ignoring a whiny request will jog her memory.
As for her getting in your bed...she really needs to fall asleep in her own bed, even if you lay down with her for comfort and security. If she comes and gets in the bed with you, I wouldn't sweat it. You know, one day she'll be a teenager and won't even want you around. Enjoy a good snuggle from time to time. However, encourage that she sleep in her own bed.
Good luck!!! You'll do GREAT!
S.

Good advice from the other moms. I tend to agree with Lisa B. I know that parents think so much about their children in a lense that they will always be little kids... but I am constantly reflecting on the type of man that I want my little boy to become. I hope to one day have a daughter, as well. I know that it may be easier for you to give in to her whining and manipulation, because you love her and don't want her to suffer, but do think about the message that you are sending to her... and then imagine her in university, applying to med/law or art school, running for office, etc... how do you want her to operate as a human being? If you want her to give into other peoples whining and manipulation... and/or continue that method of operating herself, than you don't need to do anything different. But, if you want her to understand boundaries and that she/others cannot have everything they want, then you really need to toughen up for the sake of your daughter. You love her so much... and she will NEVER doubt that... even if she says hurtful things... she will always know that you love her, so do not be afraid of her reaction and being angry, etc.

Good luck w/ all of that. Im convinced that nothing helps we just have to bear through it all. I dont really have to deal w/ the whining part, but my 3 yr old wont sleep in her room. Its that she doesnt want to be alone for whatever reason. So we put a mattress on the floor in her brothers room, hoping she'd stay in there. But she continues to come into our room. DO not let her sleep in your bed, that makes it way harder to get her out.
You could first make a plan and share it w/ her then put the plan into motion. First move her to your floor. Then move her to her room and maybe sit w/ her til shes almost asleep. Just make sure you warn her that: "next week you sleep on the floor"...or whatever the next step is.
We told our daughter that when she turns 4 she is no longer allowed in our room. By then we hope to have a trundle bed and she can sleep in her brothers room if she wants. But I draw the line at 4. I might even start in Jan. because now her brother does it too.
GL

My 4 year old is a whiner and a manipulator too. The thing that has worked most for us is the threat of taking away proviledges or things he likes. If he wets his pants (sadly, he still leaks rather than going to the bathroom when he should), no books that night. If he whines about getting dressed, no TV shows during breakfast or no ____{whatever fun activity you have planned, treat, etc). We often have to lay in his bed with him at bedtime until he falls asleep (or we do!), but we're trying not to make this a daily habit. Counting to three also works to get him to do something, although the punishment of getting to three (the time-out chair) doesn't seem to bother him that much anymore. 4 is definitely harder than 2!!

My four year old got way worse when she turned 4 and she was sweet as pie when she was 2! We thought that we "skipped" terrible twos! So for the whining and crying, I started taking things away. So I would say clean up your room and she would start to cry and I would say fine I will do it and throw everything that is left on the floor in 5 minutes away. YOU MUST FOLLOW THROUGH! If they sense any wavering, they will take advantage. Or when it was time to go to bed and she starts crying, she loses privledges for the next day everytime she cries out. First, TV, then Desserts, then computer time. Only once has she lost all 3 and the very next day, she was in bed no crying! But the next day she really lost all those things. I can't stress enough the power of saying what you mean. No empty threats. You have to find what is important to her and take that away. It may not be TV, dessert and computer time, but she will have something that you can leverage against her. One huge thing also was that my daughter would run to her dad when I told her to do something. You must be a united front or they will find the divide and use it.

Good Luck!

SuperNanny knows best....all the moms are right - DON'T GIVE IN! Put her to bed in her bed and don't let her stay in yours. She may cry for hours the first night, but don't give in - don't talk to her, just place her in bed and leave the room...eventually she will learn who is boss and what is appropriate and expected of her. Things won't be as bad the following nights. They need to get their tantrums out and then they will learn that they don't work.

K.,

I have a four year old and it is just as bad as the two year old stage. I also have a 2 year old. The best thing you can do is let her cry and try to distract her by giving her a hug or with a toy or something. My dad told me some great advice that has helped me take care of my kids. There are always 8 things wrong with kids, they are usually one of these or a multiple:

Too Wet
Too Dry
Too Hungry
Too Full
Too Hot
Too Cold
They just want to cry and need a hug
They are sick

Hope this helps.

Well in accepting that she's can't go to bed in her own bed she is showing you she's Can't sleep in her own bed at all. If you want the problem to go away you need to tell her if she doesn't stay in her bed at night you are going to take away the privilege of going to sleep in your bed.
That will fix it for a while but to get rid of it totally you need to stop letter her go to bed in your bed. You are only giving her a reason to get up at night. Why should i sleep in here if it's ok to sleep in their bed. (If it wasn't ok you wouldn't let it start there) She is now old enough to actually SHOW you that.

For the first question...it is normal. Just a phase (but will come and go). Just be patient and consisten in what is okay, where the line is drawn. For the second question, I usually try to try and phase out the climbing in bed with mom. On of the things I do is when they wake up, I will take them back to their own bed, climb in it with them until they drift back asleep...then high tail it back to my own bed! Eventually they get it. That way she isn't being reinforced to climb into our bed, but I am still giving her the aide she needs to fall back asleep...while teaching her at the same time to stay in her own bed, and that mom isn't going to stay there. Good luck!
K.

that little 4 year old that you adore, and rightly so, already knows how to work you to her advantage. Take it from me who's little darling is now 20. She was/is very strong willed and I found it so painful to leave her to cry it out. Thing is if you don't show her who is in charge now she will be in charge for you and as she gets older it will be increasingly harder to deal with. As long as you have made sure all her needs have been met then bedtime is time for her to sleep in her space so you and your husband can have your space, especially if you are a working mom. It isn't easy if you adore your child to hear them cry, of course you think the worse, but subconsciously she has learnt that crying will get her what she wants and thats what she will use and she will make a habit of it until it is such an easy thing to do through life. You don't want to encourage that kind of behaviour.