To Give up or Not

J.,
Sleeping through the night without wetting, is not based on ability, but biology. She is clearly, not biologically ready to make it to the night. Her bladder is not ready. She is going twice a night!! Put her in pull-ups, and wait until she is older. (Just my opinion.)

Absolutely give up now!!! Nighttime potty training is not the same as daytime potty training. It is not behavior, it is physiological. It is not something you can teach. She will be able to stay dry at not when her body is ready. Some kids cannot do this until they are 7 or 8. Let her drink whenever she wants (ie, do not cut her off), and put her in a pullups or goodnights.

Right now you are sending her the message that there is something wrong with her and that there is something wrong with her behavior. But the thing is, she has no control over this.

Let her be. When her body is ready, you will know because she will wake up dry. Until then, just use the pullups.

I agree with Bug, she's not ready, and I would put her back in pull-ups, she has no choice in the matter as she won't, or can't get up without tantrums.

Also, is the potty in her room where she can see it, or does she need to go from her room to the bathroom? I've found that a potty in the bedroom helps a LOT and diffuses much of the fuss about getting up.

Please understand that night time dryness is not something your child has any control over. It's not like daytime potty training, where it's literally just a matter of teaching and training. If your child has no trouble with daytime dryness, then wetting the bed at night is simply a body readiness issue. Some children's brains do not produce enough of the enzyme that signals the kidneys to stop producing so much urine at night. Other kids' bladders have not grown at the same rate as the rest of their bodies. All the effort in the world isn't going to compensate for that! Explain to her that it is not her fault, that her body isn't ready to wake her up in the middle of the night yet. She will have to wear pull-ups until her body is ready. That's all. It's nothing she should be ashamed of.

As an aside, both of my girls were daytime trained by 2. One of them was night time trained at the same time, and the other wet the bed until Kindergarten. Then, one day, suddenly it came to her and she has not wet the bed since! They have a cousin who wet the bed until he was 8, much to his dismay. My husband was the same way, wet the bed until he was 8. It's really very common, and not due to a lack of effort on the child's part.

Then she might just be sleeping on your floor for another 4 years... Please just put a pull-up on her and all get some sleep. My daughter wet the bed, less and less frequently, until she was 8. I did a ton of research. A child's body just needs to be ready to stay dry all night, biologically. There is a fairly significant percentage of kids who wet the bed, especially at age 4, decreasing until about age 12. She is not peeing at night on purpose, and fighting it is just going to create lots of other issues between you two.

I am always on the minority on this one, and I always say the same thing: I don't know why these kinds of battles and hassles are worth it. If it were me, I would put her back in the pull up, and let us all get some sleep. It's amazing how, one way or another, we all learn to stop wetting the bed by adulthood, and unless there is something physically wrong, most of us do it by age 5.

Is it worth it?

Edit: Hey, most people are in agreement with me this time! Good idea to add the rubber sheet for good measure.

You cannot night train.
It's a physiological thing. Their body is either ready or not. When her body is developed enough, she'll be dry all night. Until then, you're wasting your time, effort and potentially creating a power struggle and negative experience for her.

Oh for heaven's sake honey. Save yourselves both the loss of sleep.
That is not healthy.
She is 4 not 14. She will not do this forever.
Have you ever gone off a diet? Exactly.
Save both of you a fight that does not need to be fought.
It is much healthier for both of you to get your sleep.
Sleep deprivation is so bad on the body (and mind).
Pee on the bed however is not.
Not as detrimental or world-ending as it feels.
Put the pull ups on again & let her sleep.
You'll both feel better for it.
I promise!
Sending you hugs & a sleep-filled night!

Your husband is an abusive creep.

I think it's barbaric to try and teach this. The ability to wake up at night comes with age and time and it's different for everyone. I believe that any child that is still wetting at night should be in a pull-up, and it's not a choice. It's no more of a choice than if they didn't want to brush their teeth or comb their hair or wear clothes in public. They simply do it. Wetting on ones self is disgusting and should not be allowed. Pee on a mattress is disgusting and none of us can afford a new mattress every time an accident is made.

Make her wear a pull-up. Explain to her that she'll grow out of this when her body matures. Move on to something more important.

sorry - this is not a battle I would want to fight. it sounds like she's not ready.

Buy a couple of waterproof mattress pads and put her back in a pull up. She may not like it - but NO ONE does well with their sleep interrupted.

My friend's son has to take a medication to keep him from wetting the bed at night and he's 10, he'll be 11 in May and he still wears pull ups. NO ONE makes fun of him for it. It's not like he does it on purpose.

So instead of fighting it - buy the mattress pads, a second set of sheets and put her back in a pull up. This is NOT a fight I would want to have.

J., night training isn't a conscious effort like daytime toileting. You don't teach it to kids. Night training is NOT about waking up to empty your bladder. For kids, it's about the bladder growing and maturing to the point where it can hold urine the entire night. It is sabotaging the process to train her to empty her bladder at night! You are doing the reverse of what the process should be, not to mention that sleep interruption is unhealthy for children. If she is regularly still wetting at night, she should be diapered for sleep, no pullups, no alarms, no waking up to pee in the night. She can wet her diaper, everyone gets a good night's sleep and there is no mess in the bed. Those alarms are meant for bedwetters, not children whose bodies are still too young to hold their pee all night.

My son was day trained at 3.5 but wore pullups at night till he was 7.
We were done with pullups when he woke up dry for a solid 2 weeks in a row.
Some kids are 11 yrs old before they stop wetting the bed.
I just didn't want to deal with a pee soaked bed all the time, so pullups were our best friend till his bladder was mature enough to last all night.

Most kids really have very little control over waking up if they need to pee during the night. And no matter how badly they want to as they get older and have invitations for sleep-overs, an unfortunate few still can't control bedwetting until they are around adolescence.

I think you're right about lack of sleep wearing on both of you. The normal sleep cycle takes about 1.5 hours to complete. Part of the cycle is very deep, and it's difficult to arouse many people, child or adult, during that part of the cycle. Part of it is much lighter sleep, during which sleepers shift positions and are more available to be awakened by some discomfort, like a need to pee. If you're trying to wake your daughter during deep sleep, it will be a much more difficult and annoying challenge for her than if she's in a light-sleep part of the cycle, and will disrupt the important deep sleep that we all need.

But either way, most people who try to train kids to wake up to use the potty have little or no success. I would explain to my daughter that her body just doesn't have all the systems in place yet to let her know when she needs to wake up and pee, and until that happens, nighttime diapers will be necessary.

If SHE really wants panties at night, you might try for a few nights waking her either 1.5 or 3 hours after she falls asleep, and see if that makes it easier. And keeping a potty chair near her bed at night may also make it less of a struggle to make this effort.

Added after your SWH:
It worries me seeing your SWH regarding your husband. He needs to stay out of this. It sounds like he doesn't understand (or care?) about what is and isn't appropriate regarding night potty training. Please don't talk about this with him. If he fights with her about getting up to pee, you are going to have a mess on your hands.

Original:
J., don't do this. You are the one waking her up - not herself. You have her in your room. She needs to be in her own room. She needs to want to have dry nights. The only one wanting dry nights is you. You are putting too much pressure on her too soon.

I would have a pad on her mattress that is waterproof. Have several sets of sheets. You can get a pad to put under her to keep the sheets dry too. I would not use pullups. She can't feel the uncomfortable wetness in pullups. Instead, put her in diapers that are uncomfortable and a little small. If peeing in the middle of the night starts to bother HER instead of you, she will have some incentive to potty train.

If she goes one night without wetting herself, make a big deal out of it and give her a sticker to put on a calendar. Tell her that she can wear her daytime big girl panties to sleep tonight. Tell her that as long as she doesn't wet the bed, she can wear her big girl panties to bed. When she wets again, put the diaper back on her and tell her that if she can go 4 nights without wetting the bed, she can have the panties back.

Instead of being exasperated or upset, look at this as something that is a developmental process, like learning to walk. Patience and allowing her to get to this on her own pace is important. Night training is far different than day training. You jumped the gun by putting the alarm on her - it's too early for that.

More than anything, at the point that she has to have the diaper back because she wet the bed, tell her "I know you want to have dry nights, honey. It's okay. But we need to put the diapers back on until you've had 4 dry nights." Then leave it alone.

My ped told me many years ago that a child's body cannot be expected to be able to go through the night without wetting until at least the age of 4. And the psychological part of it can be longer. So please give her some time and don't push her. Put away the timer, put her back in her room, use diapers, not pullups, and let her figure this out.

Dawn

Sounds to me like she isnt ready... your making her miserable with the alarm and the routine.... nothing to drink after 6pm and al that is a little strict...... the biggest sign of readiness is when they stay dry all night... if she isnt dry all night then she isnt ready... give the little thing a break... i promise you that when she is ready then it will be alot easier

I'm just asking because the 6pm thing sent up a red flag. If she is thirsty don't you think she should be able to have a drink? This whole post seems so regimented. Just bite the bullet, buy some pull-ups, and let nature take it's course. Potty training shouldn't be this stressful to such a little girl.

give both of you a break. quit trying to force it. she's not ready. and don't make her feel bad about it. tell her how nice it will be not to get up in the middle of the night, and how great you'll both feel after uninterrupted sleep...but put her back in the pullup. i would not even hesitate, and no arguments from her either. it's the right thing to do.

oh my goodness,please put her back in pull up....she is not ready.....

Totally agree with the other posters..of course she's upset you are waking her up out of sleep and making her do something she's not psychologically ready to do. 4 year olds need their sleep to grow, and be able to even develop the ability to be able deal with what you are trying to "train her" to do.

Please put her back in her pull ups and stop waking her up with an alarm in the middle of the night.

My advice is to put her in the pull up and stop pushing the issue. It sounds like she just isn't ready. A lot of kids are not at age 4.

Didn't read a single response but here's my 2 cents. She is not ready and may not be for a long time. My oldest, now 13, wet the bed at night forever. She still does occasionally when she's really sick.
It's a bladder and deep sleeper thing. To not let her wear pull ups at 4 is so wrong and could be damaging. It shouldn't be a big deal at her age. Our Dr. said around 5-8 yrs. almost all kids work it out and for us it was true, by 6 she was all good except for that very rare situation.
I'm so glad we didn't make a big deal out of it. Kids grow up in different ways at different times. My girl was the most composed & mature little gal in the room (and still is) but she had that one burden to bear. It's life, please don't make a big deal out of it and put away the alarms! She'll "grow up " before you know it!

I don't think nighttime dryness is teachable. I think it's something they just have to be ready for physically. And your daughter is not. Your pestering her at night is teaching her to wake up and go (and it's driving you both crazy) but it isn't doing anything to help her stay dry at night. It's actually disrupting her deep sleep, which isn't good for little ones who are growing and whose brains are developing.

My niece was 6 before she stopped wetting occasionally. She wore a pull up every night. Even when she spent the night in a sleeping bag at my house.

Give your poor daughter and yourself a break. She's still very young.

Try PUSHING fluids after 6pm instead of restricting them. She'll have a few accidents the first couple nights, but it rewires the brain a gazillion times faster because the signal from the nerves on a full bladder are a LOT stronger than from a mostly empty bladder that just dribbles out. Our nerves send impulses at different levels. Think of the difference between petting a face and a slap in the face. Same nerves, but different levels. A full bladder trains a sleeping brain to wake up when it feels ANY impulse from the bladder, and it trains the sphincter to remain tight. For most kids, they're completely trained in less than a week if fluids are PUSHED instead of restricted.

Trick: For the first week, make her bed 2-3x one on top of the other with waterproof protectors in between each layer. Then you just pull off the wet layer and toss it in the machine.

Give your daughter a break. You are expecting too much. Maybe her body just isn't ready. Put a diaper(less expensive than pullups) on her and when she consistently wakes up dry, you'll know she's ready for underware at night. What's the big hurry anyway? No fluids after 6? That borders on cruelty in my opinion. I definetely get thirsty between 6 and 9 myself.

I know it's kind of the same thing, but get Goodnights and use them just for night. Seriously, I read your post and I'm thinking, 'are you seriously doing this to your daughter??!!' No disrespect to you, but just reread it yourself. Who wants to get woken up 2 times in the middle of the night to pee? She can't help that she pees at night. Alot of kids do that because their bladders are not mature enough yet. And just because she can't control waking to pee, is it really kind to just let her pee her pants and sleep in it? It seems cruel to me. I'm not trying to bash you at all, but I wish you would reconsider your method here. I'm sure she is not happy when she pees the bed. My son will be 4 in 2 months and when I was training him, I kept waterproof crib/pack-n-play sheet-blanket thing (they are like white flannel) and I kept it on top of his sheets.
And since your husband doesn't want her in training pants at bedtime, maybe he needs to be the one getting her up and dealing with all the nightime potty drama. I'm sure he will change his mind real fast if he has to deal with it all himself. This is just making everyone miserable and she's just not ready. Please don't let her pee the bed.

You may have her not in her bed for a looooong time. The alarms dont work much really. pullups are probably the best bet. my oldest is 13 and still bedwets........i did it myself until i was 15. put a rubber sheet on her bed. good luck

Do you realize you are trying to fix a biological development issue? That you cannot fix?

She is not going to stop wetting the bed until her brain tells her kidneys to stop producing urine while she is asleep, she is unable to stop this no matter what you do.

I feel bad for you and your daughter since hubby has no idea she is just not able to do this.

Does hubby realize how much more expensive it will be in the long run to do all the extra laundry? The extra laundry soap, the extra dryer sheets, extra electricity to run the washing machine extra loads each and every day, the extra money for natural gas, propane, or electricity to run the dryer, even longer dryer time is used for all the heavier pillows, winter blankets and comforters. Extra laundry adds up in the long run. What is she is like a normal kid and does this until she is 7 or 8 years old. Some kids do it every night until the reach puberty. What is your life going to be like during all that time.

Pull ups are just penny's per day and only one per night is needed. They don't get up and change several times a night, they go to sleep, sleep all night, wake up and go throw it in the trash. A box of 20+ is only $15 at Walmart. It will cost you double that much per month in extra laundry costs.

Do you realize that one day you are going to be in the laundry area and surrounded by pee pee sheets, blankets, pillows, clothes, etc...and will just sit down and cry for hours because of all the extra work it causes you to do, so much that you will have nightmares about pee pee sheets coming after you???

That is the extreme of it to be sure...my friend actually had this happen to her. She just sat down and cried for about 2 hours in the middle of the bedding. Then she got up, took a shower, went to Walmart and bought pull ups. Life was so much better after that.

If hubby truly wants to make this an issue make an appointment with a pediatric urologist who will teach hubby that a parent can't make a developmental stage just happen when the parent wants it to. The doc may decide to give her medication to help but they usually just say it's a developmental thing and does not need meds.

Your child needs her rest, she needs X amount of hours of un-interrupted sleep. She will start to show signs of sleep deprivation, as you will too. So make hubby get up with her. If he truly thinks he has the answer to this then let it be his project.

BTW, limiting drinks allows the bladder to not fill up and give the urge it is full. She will never feel a half way full bladder and wake up.

But the medical fact is that the brain tells the kidney to stop producing urine while she is asleep. Along with the muscles growth/strength and bladder size, these are the things that effect bed-wetting. That is what stops the wetting at night.

I agree with a post below that your husband should read some of these posts. Maybe even have him call your doctor to discuss. Sometimes husbands just see things on the surface level. When I read your post my thought was that it all sounds harsh! Agree with everyone that says it's a body thing not a behavioral thing. I'd be scared that putting such pressure on her is going to backfire...maybe she'll start rebelling, etc. Please put yourself in her shoes...imagine being 4 years old and hooked up to some potty alarm and just not being able to hold it and getting into arguments with mommy and daddy in the middle of the night, feeling you are letting them down, such pressure that you can't do something right, etc. Give her more time!

I agree with the other posts, it sounds like she (or her bladder) just isn't ready yet and she's cranky cause she's not getting a good night sleep. If she's being waken up 3 hours after she goes to sleep to go potty, then she gets right back into a good sleep and has to wake up again a few hours later when the alarm goes off (or you go in there) - it's not worth the hassel. I'd do the pull up agains, or if she doesn't want the pull ups on, maybe you can use those rubber pants over her underware to help with the mess, but try again in another month or so. Good Luck.

I didn't have this problem with any of my 8 kids but I remember hearing Michael Landon ( of Little House on the Prairie ) tell how he became a star runner because he wet the bed as a teen, not sure when he quit, and his mean mom hung the wet sheets out the window for all to see. He ran home to get them down before his friends saw them. Doesn't that break your heart? It didn't help him, he would have quit wetting the bed if he could have. I'd look at it from this point of view. I did wake a couple of my kids up to go when I went to bed if it was around 11 p.m. or so. They usually stumbled in and went and right back to sleep. If an alarm woke me like that I would be very much like your daughter is being. After she went she probably didn't need to go again when you told her to. Just be patient and do whatever to help her sleep and not ruin the mattress and hopefully she will learn quicker with less pressure on her.

Mindy T (among lots of other mommies) is absolutely right! Word for word.

I have four girls, and their bladder control has been very different from each other, but it is something I learned, that with time the bladder will mature at its own rate- and it greatly varies with each kid. My first actually did not go pee at night at a very early age (just turned 2), however my second took until she was 5 1/2 at night. My third stopped going at night in bed around the same week she turned 3 and my youngest is 3 1/2 and she's still going in her diaper at night.

They are all potty trained for day -100%- and all of them were at the age of 2 for the daytime.

Don't stress about it, and have your husband talk to the pediatrician so he can hear a professional say that it is TOTALLY okay for her to still wet her pants at night. If it goes past the age of 6 or 7 is when there is reason to be concerned.

My daughter was not dry at night until after she turned 5. If disposables are too expensive, try cloth night-time diapers which you can buy a couple of and wash as needed. You can find them online with a quick google search.

4 is really young for a potty alarm. I'd put it away for awhile.

We get our kids adjusted by a pediatric chiropractor and it works wonders! Our son would wet the bed and we knew his L2 was out of place. We'd get him adjusted and nothing for another 8-10 months. This happened only 3 times, but honestly, it was night and day difference. It allows the brain to communicate with the micturation center and the kidneys/bladder.

Unless the diaper or pull up is dry in the morning FOR MANY WEEKS IN A ROW her body is not ready to hold the pee all night. So do no even try to go to underwear since you cannot make her body do what it cannot do. For my oldest it was around age 4 at night EVEN if she could remember to go potty during the day in underwear she could NOT do it at night. For my youngest, she had dry diapers overnight in the crib before she was 2 and still can hold her pee for 12 hours it seems! So tell you husband it is not something you can train her to do by "making" her behave, her body has to mature. I would put her back in pull ups or if she refuses and wants to be a big girl, get those cotton underwears that have a big pad in them. Then make up the bed with several layers of: incontinence pad in the middle (CVS sells them and they are about a yard square, either throw aways or washable ones) and then a fitted sheet, do this for about 2 or 3 layers, so then you can strip one layer in the middle of the night and have a dry bed. Here are some underwears that look like the real thing but are actually absorbent:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId...

I agree with most answers -- it is a body thing not a choice.

I promise, unless there are some serious health issues, she will not be wetting the bed when she is in college. This too shall pass, when the time is right.

Let her body mature at the pace it needs to.

Lack of sleep makes everyone cranky and less patient.

Rite Aid has a nice, older kid overnight that comes in all white so it looks like underwear, and we called it nighttime panties.

This is not a choice and if you fight it and make her believe she is choosing and not succeeding (because her body isn't ready) you are telling her that she is a failure and not able to do something you want her to do. Think about the long term ramifications on self belief if you continue to reinforce that lesson.

By continuing to fight this right now the ultimate lesson being taught is shifting. You are teaching her to be embarrassed, lack of sleep is more important than listening to your body, that dad's incorrect vision of what she is capable of doing is more important than her emotional and physical health, and that goals are impossible to reach, not the lesson of how to stay dry at night.

Please let her and you get a good nights sleep, your whole home dynamics will be better with a well rested family rather than cranky members with dry beds.

Maybe your husband should read these posts? Children are either bed-wetters or not. Put her in a pull-up and just let her sleep. If she pees in her bed a few times/night, that will disrupt her sleep (having to get up, get cleaned, change the bed, etc...)... I consulted with a sleep expert w/my kids and when I potty trained, she said to put a pull-up on,cut liquids before bed and when the pull-up is dry (over several weeks), then you know their bladder has matured. If your child is a bed-wetter, she also said she has seen that most kids who do it for a long time, their bladder will fully mature/or this problem will stop around age 9. So, it CAN be a longer process for some children. Not everyone is the same. Good luck.

I suggest back to the pull ups, she will eventually stop the wetting. I think the interurptied sleep will cause more problems.

Tell her if she doesn't want the pull ups, she will need to stay dry or get up on her own if she needs to use the rest room. I'm sure you have a night light in her room and the bath room.

Blessings.....

You don't say how old your daughter is....that will greatly affect the answers here....

I wake up at 4am to go to the bathroom... so after I have gone, I carry my 4-year-old to the bathroom to go. I would never dream of making her walk. She kind of stays half asleep. I kneal down and hold her so she can lean on me while she sits on the potty. Then I carry her back to bed and tuck her in. She goes right back to sleep and sleeps deeply after that... The alarm and walking aspect of your regime seem too harsh at night. Your goal should be to try to disturb her as little as possible while still giving her some relief.