Throwing a Fit at School and at Home !!

E. -

I hate to tell you, but he is struggling for control. He needs to know that he is not in control. I know many people disagree, but an old fashioned spanking will eliminate this. But it must be done with a conversation that he is not in charge and at no time does he have the right to behave as he is. I know this is uncomfortable, but I had to do it with my son, and it changed things right away. Now, I don't have to do it very often.

Hope that helps.

M.

It sounds as if a consultation with a good child psychologist or psychiatrist could be very helpful in helping you understand why this is happening and how you could help him get better control of his angry feelings. Let me know if you would like a referral in the Menlo Park/Palo Alto area.

A little about me : a child psychiatrist with a 19 yo boy and 12yo girl, married 21 yrs. to a great Dad and supportive husband.

I would say bring him to the professional like psychologist to learn how to manage his anger issues. You can get advices and tips on how to handle him at home.

Dear E.,
Oh dear. You have got to put your foot down...and PRONTO!
I have friends going through the same behavior with their son and I am just shocked at the way they handle it. Basically, they don't. And, heaven forbid, they don't want their son thinking they are mad at him. In my opinion, they SHOULD be mad at him and he SHOULD damn well know it.
A child psychologist told me that kids aren't born knowing self-control and when they get out of control, they need someone in their world to get control for them. The more they act out, often it's a sign that they are craving someone to make their world smaller and more manageable for them. They know they're small and the world is big and trying to control their own homes and classrooms and parents is often an unconscious way of realizing they want to be safe by structure. The ones who act like they don't want anybody telling them anything are often the very ones who want exactly that the most.
I'm not one for comparing kids to other people, but in this case, during a time when your son is cooled down you might ask him, "Do you ever see Mom and Dad throw chairs? Do you see your teacher or other kids in your class throw chairs? It's not acceptable behavior, and you will be punished every single time. Throwing fits will not ever get you what you want. It will get you trouble every single time. If you're mad, fine, you can say that you're mad. But, you can't throw things, you can't kick car seats, you can't tell adults what they are going to do. Ever. Period. I love you, but I do NOT like your behavior and I will NOT stand for it."
Then you've got to be consistant.
My friends have said, "It's hard not to give in. He's so cute and we just can't resist his cute little cheeks." His cheeks aren't cute to other people when he's yelling and calling people names. There's nothing cute about him at that point.
I've been a single mom going on 13 years. I've had to juggle work and everything else and if you think for one minute I could ever be afraid of my kids thinking I was mad or had time to deal with that nonsense, you'd better think again. I was never afraid for my kids to know I was mad, never afraid to raise my voice, never afraid to punish swiftly, never afraid to follow through and never afraid to cuss like a sailor if the situation called for it. I had to be tough. I couldn't allow chaos. I get complimented on what amazing kids I've raised all the time and they love me. I tempered the tough times with laughter, but they both still know when I am dead serious.
Your son may have uncontrollable anger issues, I don't know, but either way, you have to get control of the situation. He threw a fit about McDonald's. I would drive 20 miles out of my way if I had to to keep him from even seeing one, that's how far McDonald's would be off the horizon if it was one of my kids. "You're not even going to drive PAST a McDonald's after that fit".
Last but not least, find positive rewards for the days he behaves. Like, helping you bake in the kitchen. If he has a good day he can help you make cookies or bake a cake for daddy...something where the two of you are hands on and working together. He'll learn about measuring and taking one thing at a time and being patient while things are spending their time in the oven. Little things like that will be ways to show him that there's a reward to his efforts that the family can enjoy. And, it will give you time to talk to each other.
I don't know you. I don't think you've done anything wrong. But now is the perfect time to introduce more structure. He will object, I'm sure. At first. But, I think you will all be happier in the long run. And most importantly, he will be happier with himself.

I really wish you the very best of luck.

I second that recomendation for the book "Have a new Kid by Friday." And, "Taking Charge of your Strong Willed child." There are SO many great books out there. I get them for free at the library. I've found you learn someting even in the first page that's helpful. So, even if you aren't a reader and just flip through them it will help you!

This worked with my son between the ages of 5 and 7 and he is now 19 and we joke about it! A quick trip fully clothed to a cold shower!!! Of course you immediately turn it to warm and as the water changes he will calm down. Keep the door open and stay with him every second! Have him take off his regular clothes in the shower and explain to him this will happen every time you throw a fit. When you get him out, wrap the towel around him and sit him on your lap and explain why his behavior is not okay. When he throws another fit ask him if he wants a cold shower. You will be surprised how quickly he will calm down. My son only had 3 cold showers and now when he sees someone acting out his comment is, "Hey he needs a cold shower!" Then he laughs! Taking toys away never worked with my son and spanking was just not an option that would work. Warn him at school if you throw a fit the teacher will call me and I will take you out of class in front of all the kids and you will get another cold shower! Some kids are stubborn but I do believe this will work for you. Lots of great advice below, but if you don't have time for a book this is a good option. One more thing, STICK BY YOUR WORD EVERY TIME!!! Best wishes and good luck!

This is a challenge that all parents face. Raising a happy and emotionally healthy child is the hardest job in the world. We may do our best to meet their external needs but understanding what goes on in their minds and hearts is where the most challenge is. When we discipline them, we are only thinking from our own perspective and not from a child’s perspective. Kids also need to be heard, validated, and acknowledged when we impose rules on them. It becomes easier once we have that empathy for them and for ourselves. There are lots of great books that have helped me understand this. I highly recommend two books by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. These are simple and easy to read books with cartoons showing right and wrong way that even you son might enjoy reading together with you. My 5 yr old son does. The book tittles are:

1) How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk
2) How to talk so kids will learn at school and at home.

Other books I also recommend are
3) Raising your spirited child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka
4) Between Parent and child by Haim Ginot
5) Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn
6) How to raise your child’s emotional intelligence. 101 ways to bring the best out in your children by Allen Nagy

All of these books offer strategies on positive and respectful ways to discipline children. And they do work better than punishment, rewards, timeouts, threats, and grounding, which are humiliating to a child. These quick-fix methods instill fear and guilt in a child which may bring quick compliance under parents/teachers domination but will not bring long term positive changes in behavior. The above books suggest that simply tell the child in a kind and respectful way about what you want him/her to do instead of NO and DON’T messages and model the behavior. Kids want our (well deserved) attention all the time and when they don't get it in a positive way, they do things whatever best they can think of as a child) that annoy us, even if it brings negative attention.

Do praise (by giving specific feedback instead of ‘good job’) your child when he does something nice. Make it a point everyday to find something (no matter how small) that your child does right. (Refrain from giving negative feedback at the same time). Once he hears such messages, he will be more motivated to do other things that you want him to do. The bottom line is that he needs to hear that he needs to do things because that is the right thing to do not because there is a punishment or reward coming.

Best,
-Rachna

HI E.,

Wow, with the amount of responses, you know you are definitely not alone! As a 25 year veteran teacher, I fully understand what you are going through. I had a class of Kindergartners that were ill-behaved. Actually, only half the class was that way, but the others seemed to want to get in on the act. It was exhausting! The worst part was that I was going to be moving to first grade the following year and the entire group of kids was going to
come with me!

In my quest to find something that worked (and believe me, I tried EVERYTHING), I came across a book by Dr. Marvin Marshall entitled "Discipline Without Stress, Punishment, or Rewards" (www.marvinmarshall.com). All I can say is that the strategies in the book probably saved my career. The difference in the students was amazing. The book is based upon four levels of behavior . . . A=Anarchy, B=Bothering C=Cooperation D=Discipline (the student learns to become disciplined do the right thing because it is the right thing to do). Once the students learn to indentify their level of behavior, it doesn't take long for them to want to always be at levels C or D.

I even used the strategies at home with my own children, and it really works! But, just like anything, consistency and a change in your current methods are what make it work. Dr. Marshall has written a new book to come out soon, entitled "Parenting without Stress". I'm sure it has many examples specifically for parent/child situations that the other book doesn't have. I can't wait to get it! It would be great if your son's teacher could get the first book, and you could get the second -- you'd both be using the same strategies both at home and school. It just doesn't get any better than that!

Good luck!

Hi,

I am a homeschool mom with 3 well behaved children. I get complements on their behavior all the time. A big key, especially with boys, is to NOT GIVE IN to whining, and fits. It is going to be a battle but you are going to have to stand firm, with the belt of truth around your waist, and DO NOT surrender your authority over to him. Children who beleive they are in charge do these kinds of behaviors. You are going to have to show him you are the boss.

I use the Bible along with a book called "Shepherding A Child's Heart" by Tedd Tripp. I highly recommend it.

Time outs and taking items away don't it work because they don't change what is going on in your child's heart. Your child has a heart issue.

If you think you are willing to embrace biblical priciples, I will mail you my personal copy since I don't need to use it anymore. Just send me a personl note.

Kindly,
Gail

ps...Do try to take away ALL tv viewing until this is remedied. Cable TV , even commercials, is dripping with bad influences.

Don't talk to him and he can't talk back to you. Just put him in his room and make him stay there until he behaves. Really resist the urge to lecture him or tell him why you are doing this. One sentence, something like, "When you can behave you can come out of your room," will suffice. Then no matter what he says or does, don't say any more to him. Just let him out when he's behaving. If he starts acting up again, just say the same thing and put him back in his room. If he talks back to you while in his room just ignore it.

About school -- is there something he likes that you can take away from him when he acts up at school? I would just tell him that if you hear he's been acting up at school you are going to take away X. Then do it.

Just remember - less talk, more action.

Hi E.!

I also have a very strong willed son who is now 18. I have been through the wringer with him. I just have one piece of advice for you that will make all the difference in the world - boundaries, boundaries, boundaries - and consequences.
And it is MUCH easier to enforce boundaries when your son is 5 rather than 15 - when he can punch large holes in every wall in your house - break doors, windows and furniture, or actually physically harm someone. It is not mean or hateful to enforce boundaries - it is actually love. Your son needs to know you are in charge - And you don't even have to raise your voice or even get angry - you simply enforce boundaries that you decide are appropriate - natural consequences. ALWAYS allow and follow through with consequences no matter how difficult for you or for him. This takes effort, work and vigilance. But the rewards will be many - starting with peace for you and peace in your home. And more importantly, a sense of control and limits for your son. He NEEDS structure and hard boundaries. I'm just writing from long experience here-! Good luck!

A book just recommended to me by my son's preschool teacher is 1-2-3 Magic, Effective Discipline for Children 2-12. I went to my library last night, and there were no copies in any of the libraries in my district! That sounds to me like it is an effective book, I will have to purchase it instead! Good Luck

I feel you! Sounds very frustrating. Its hard to say what might be going on with the limited information anyone can provide in a post like this, but I really discourage you from feeling like he is intentionally being a punk, as I imagine there is something much more complex going on for him. Talk with your pediatrician, if you have a good one, as there could be something that is making these situations very difficult and stressful for him. I think all kids want acceptance and approval and if they act defiant, it is because there is something else going on that their little brains can neither understand nor communicate.

I very highly recommend this book:

Transforming the Difficult Child: The Nurtured Heart Approach, by Howard Glasser.

http://difficultchild.com/sp-bin/spirit?PAGE=37&CATAL...

Deep breath, mama. This too shall pass (but not without some good support for you).
S.

I have hope for you. www.loveandlogic.com.

It has brought peace and joy into our home like I never imagined was possible. And you don't have to be the bad guy anymore. You can deliver consequences with empathy. Just make sure your empathy is genuine, or it will backfire.

Gunn High brought this organization in to speak to all its parents and it drew a standing room only crowd. They are truly amazing!

E.,

I would like to also recommend the book "1-2-3 Magic" by Thomas Phelan. My son went through some similar issues when he was in preschool and all the teachers there strongly recommended it. It's a quick read and even quicker to implement. You are good to take action now. Be strong and don't let your world be ruled by a 5 year old. He needs you to be the parent.

A.

Hi E.,

You have a lot of advice .....but I'd like to add my "2 cents", and what worked for me ;O)

Like another mom said, I used to make the WHOLE WORLD STOP and come to a screeching hault! No matter where we were....I would stop the car, the grocery cart, the stroller, the TV....ANYTHING to make sure that he knew it was ALL about his behavior and I wasn't standing for it.

My "mom way" was too OVER-react with my voice, and I think that is what worked for me. I was never a spanking mom, and because of that, I needed to be an extra FIRM mom. My most threatening tools that I use (and still use)to show how serious I am is......... my "finger" to point with and my voice :o) Funny huh? Well, it really works for me.

As soon as my son started his "prince routine" (about age 6)I pulled out my "finger and voice" and would say something in my "OVER REACTING serious voice" while I was pointing my finger at him. :O) "Who do you think you are by talking to me that way?" and as he got older, and it was a REALLY bad moment, I would "charge at him" with my finger and voice. The TRICK (for me ) was to say things slow enough and serious, so that he understood me the very FIRST time. After he calmed down, I went to him and asked WHY he behaved that way. Getting them to explain their feelings is very important and it shows them that we care how they feel and they feel more validated, as children.

My "prince" son is 13 today :O) He is STILL afraid of my finger! As a "teen", he can have an occassional attitude (yes, really) and I still BARGE into his life with my voice and finger and he STILL practically crawls in a ball as if I'm going to beat him. But...maybe that shows that my "over-reactive voice" is doing the job!

So, however you discipline your son, you need to let him know you are serious and that you will WILL NOT stand for this behavior. If you don't get control of it now......this could be his behavior forever.

When it comes to THROWING.....he becomes a danger to others at school. That is a behavior from having too much bottled up emotions. Make sure you talk to him after each heated moment (when he's calm) so he gets a chance to tell you what happened to him.

Hang in there and keep trying things. Be consist with your reaction, not necessarily your punishment. You might have to keep trying different forms of punishment until you find the "right one" that really works.

~N. :O)

First of all, I think you and your husband should look back and try to figure out how and why you allowed things to get this bad. You really need to think about the fact that your failure to discipline him, and your failure to teach him how to behave himself, has caused him serious problems that will probably take a lot of work to correct. No one, not adults or other kids, wants to be around a child who is spoiled and has tantrums. How do you correct it? It's simple---you just don't let him do it anymore. Send him to his room immediately when he is disrespectful, and if that doesn't work, give him a good spanking, and then send him to his room. After you have acheived the results you want, then you can have a talk with him about why it is important to learn to behave himself.

I have read the responses to this request & they are very sound! My daughter is 4, but is very strong-willed & disrespectful. My husband & I are also doing everything we can, like you, to curb the behavior. It is an on-going process, but we take a little comfort in the fact that her behavior is NOT unusual!
Our pediatrician recommended to us a few things. First of all, she stressed the need for consistency in whatever our plan of attack was going to be. Once you make the threat, in other words, follow through...EVERY time. The other thing she suggested was stressing the positive aspect. She shared that her oldest daughter would melt with "THE LOOK" her second child was not impressed. She would choose to focus on what the child does right as much as what the child does wrong. When praise is received, they tend to want the praise instead of the punishment. In the light of this advice, we chose to implement a token economy system. Because she is 4 & doesn't understand the concept of value of money or taking away (just adding to the pile), we gave her tokens (poker chips) for doing what we asked the first time, maybe 2 for voluntarily doing something good (helping with her younger brothers without us asking). If she was bad, we took her tokens away until she was good again. We set a goal with her on how she wanted to be rewarded (getting to go to the movie theater, or having McDonald's for lunch) & then she had to earn so many tokens over the week to get her reward. If you want a practical way to implement a token economy system, your son's teacher might be a good resource too. It worked fairly well for us - the key was consistency.
Also, a friend recommended a book called "Strong Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson. If you haven't heard of him, he is a firm believer in tough love. I have read other books in the past, but have yet to get this particular book. I will be because my son is showing signs of an even stronger will! :) Our day care lady also suggested a book called "Breaking the will but not the spirit" - I am sorry I don't know who that one is by.
Hang in there - I sensed so much frustration in your post & I totally feel your pain! You are not alone at all!

Read the book "loving your child is not enough" by Nancy samalin. It is about positive discipline and is respectful, trusting, and recognizes that children are children so need leadership, yet can be treated with the compassion and respect due all people. Sounds like you need some quick suggestions for immediate use, but also some long term mindset ideas. This book has both.

hi,
I agree with Page W. and the other mom. You may not like to be harsh, but you are actually doing him a favor to teach him he can't control people with bad behavior.
Your description of your son's behavior sounds familiar to me in a lot of ways...one of my boys was like this at 5, and I used to have to hold his door closed while he was inside throwing things, kicking the door and the walls, and screaming his head off, saying threatening things...all the neighbors could hear him, I am sure, along with anyone who happened to be walking by.
As long as your son believes there is the smallest chance that he might get his way, he will continue this behavior. Don't repeat yourself, don't give him anything to argue with, because he will think he can change your mind. Don't ever back down. You have to make it clear that he will NEVER get his way after having a fit.

One other note--my son (now 9) is very smart and very capable, and now that he is older and more mature, he is sweet and helpful most of the time. Don't worry that your son is a "bad person" because of his behavior...he may just be incredibly tenacious and stubborn and willful. These are qualities that bring success in adulthood! I used to tell my son that when he is grown and has a job and money, he can do pretty much anything he wants, but when he is a child still being taken care of...No.
Good luck!!!

Good advice from some of the other Moms. A book that really helped me with my daughter is 123 Magic. You can find it at the library and it is very affective, taking away a lot of the power struggles and not leaving room for the continued back and forth, much as Page described doing. Another angle is to make sure he is getting the best nutrition possible. This may be something you are already doing but wanted to mention it as I have a few friends who have seen dramatic results with their children by cutting out refined sugars, sodas and giving omega 369 supplements. All the best to you! You are such a good parent to ask for help when you need it!

We went through something similar. My son is an only child and so every bit of our love and energy goes to him. I think I might have been loving him into being a bratt. The principal called me at home to tell me that my son told a young, new spanish teacher that she was not really a teacher. He berated her in front of her class.....she was nearly in tears by their interaction. He was incredibly rude to her.

We had a meeting with the teacher and principal and of course our son felt ganged up on. My husband drove him home and when they returned home, I asked "is he mad?" WE were scared of his reaction to the meeting. I was practically cowering. Next day, aFter a pep talk from some other moms, I worked up the nerve to tell him we still needed to talk about what happened. HE said, "F__k this.....IM out of here and slammed his bedroom door.

I was mortified, but DONE. I had had it and I was actually scared for his futere. WHat kind of person was he going to be? I called a psychologist, set up some appointments and guess what. IMy husband and I were at fault (she put it much kinder than that). We had no boundaries.

I had to really crack down and set soem strict rules. She helped me by reminding me that the first couple of times punished him, or took something away as a consequence, that I just had to grin bare it. It was so hard. The screaming and crying....pulled his closet door off the wall.

It took three times or so. Now, I feel like I have my sweet boy back. Seriously, I had to make the change (my husband too). LOVE HIM ENOUGH TO BE THE STRONG MOM HE NEEDS YOU TO BE. THinking about that helped me and I hope this helps you too.

hi E....
i know what i am about to say sounds rather simple, i in no way intend it to be in any way shape or form condesending, but have you tried to open up discussion when things aren't so manic?

try simply talking to him, he is five so capable of simple reasoning, discusss with him how you feel, how others feel when he has these outbursts? how would he feel if he were met with similar actions by you your husband, his teachers, friends, etc. when approached by him. point out how other people out in the world act when you come in contact with them; restaurants, pet store, safeway, doctor's office etc., everyday, all the time constantly discuss in the car on leaving said place how your visit may have been different had there been chairs flying screaming and defiance, laugh about the absurdity of it all, then remind him about how difficult getting anything done with his rage and unacceptable behavior is just as it would be were it to occur at the store, then ask how he could better express himself, ask him how you can better help him not get to that point.

make him the master of his universe, (you are, unbeknownst to him, ultimately in control of), even asking him how he should be punished when he does act this way (remember, you have to decide on this punishment too) then remind him how much more plesent he is when he uses his words calmly, how much you do not want to punish him and how as a family you will all work to help eachother not act in such a manner, and try together to recognize what starts the storm and calm the storm before it escalates to such ugliness

it will take time and effort and constant discussion and reminding but with love and determination you will find your way back to civilization.

i have read the other responses, and while some of the suggestions may eventually inhibit the targeted bad behavior you're hoping to curtail, it can many times over force a child to find a way around it, causing him to act out in other ways, a new improved sneakier way to control situations and people.

simple action will not suffice, there are emotions at hand here many children, often times very bright children can find no way to get and maintain control of, and this is what needs to be dealt with. you know your child best and how best to reach them emotionally.

it is possible that instead of closing the door on his room and letting him fit it out (because as an adult he may always have to go to such an angry place to deal emotionally and you will have been the one instilling such social ineptness) you take his face inb your hands get down on his level and tell him "I LOVE you so much, I DO NOT LIKE your behavior at all, do you hear me" then grab him in a full on embrace "I LOVE YOU so much, RIGHT NOW you need to stop, do you hear me" repeat it a coupla times or until he says yes, be sure to approve of his response ie. "good, i love that your listening, and i love it when we can talk to eachother" or "i like that you heard me, i love you and your ears and that we can talk to eachother" then tell him what happens next. "Right now we're gonna stop and when we have calmed down we will talk about how you're feeling, and how and why this happened." then allow him to go to his room if he'd like to think about it, scream about it or break more stuff, and remind him to come to you when he is calm enough to talk, or you will come to him a little later in case he gets sidetracked. then be sure you follow up you must you must you must keep your word, stay in control, and meet him with only calm patience, he will begin to learn these things and meet future challanges with them in his arsenal instead of angry flying chairs and puzzles, by mirroring your ability to cope and maintain composure in times of crisis.

So if you find yourself heading towords out of control and are truely at your wits end and incapable of effective parenting, if nothing else, stay calm "your behavior is rotten, and i refuse to take part in any of it so right now, i will calm down, and i will walk away" or if he needs to be removed from a dire situation, follow it up with "we will calm down and we will walk away" then revisit with discussion when all becomes mostly calm.

discussion, patience and maintaining calm reasonable control are key if you wish to teach him to better serve himself and needs using rational thought and honest disscussion when seeking self justification and emotional clairification rather than irrational behaviorial outburts driven by so many new and to a child, desparately confusing and unfortunatelty for us parents uncontrolable, emotions...you know, teach him how not to get so angry.

however once all is well and good and a good while after all is calm, well and good (you never, ever, never ever, never, poke a bear) remind him that angry is ok and necessary. tell him and show him (your face and tone of voice) how angry you get, especially when he behaves in that way, then show him how you shake it off thanking him for discussing your anger with you, so that he'll understand and come to LEARN how safe and proactive dialogue with the people he loves and/or trusts can be. we can only hope, carrying it into adulthood.

best of luck,
aline

E., I know how frustrating it must be to be in this situation and I know of another mother who is going through the same thing. After much denial, she finally had her child tested and evaluating by a professional and learned that he has a chemical imbalance with symptoms of ADHD and Turrets (not sure of spelling).

I'm not at all saying that your child has an imbalance, that's only one possibility of many, but it isn't something that you want to let get too far along. Your insurance may cover his appointments and its vital to helping your child with relationships and school. Good luck, we're all rooting for you.

Have you tried a specific reward system where he gets stickers that add up to a predetermined reward (e.g., McDonald's)?

E......i can totally feel your frustration....i too have a very "spirited" 5 year old boy. Just yesterday i got a call from the principal at kindergarten and I was not happy. Do you have Kaiser? or near Kaiser? We ended up taking a Parenting for Preschoolers class and they were just awesome at teaching us how to be a better parent which will enable the child to respond differently. every day is a challenge in our world but my hope is baby steps into creating an awesome adult one day. We were lucky enough to have one of the kaiser therapists take us under their wing and they are still guiding us as this will be a process. Good Luck...remember you are not alone!

I see you have 30 responses already, so what I have to say may well be repitive of what others have said. Seems we all relate to this issue!! I have always thought that five going on 35 (or whatever age one wants to put in that space) was a normal condition of children. In my case it was worse with my daughter than with either of my sons. I know it doesn't help to tell you "this too will pass" but it will. There are no easy answers. You simply have to keep on dealing with him on how he can appropriately show his displeasure with things, and trust he will eventually learn self-control. Give him some suggestions, even act out for him a situation using appropriate language and response. You might try (at a time when he is calm, of course) role play with him being the parent and you being the child. Or, you might use puppets to act out a scene. Try to get him to see the humor in his inappropriate actions. I know it doesn't seem humorous at all to you, but if he sees it as silly and ridiculous, it may be easier for him to realize that the actions aren't something he wants to continue.
When he is acting out, try to keep calm while restricting his behavior.
Believe me when I tell you I know how difficult this is. There was a time when I actually thought how nice it would be to simply let my daughter out of the vehicle on the side of the road and just drive away! I didn't, of course, and now am the proud grandmother of her equally difficult five year old daughter and a four year old who will most likely be as difficult next year. As I said before "this too will pass".

Ah, my son didn't do this (well, actually, he's never been physically violent), but he didn't get angry like this until he was a little older. I would have him seen by a therapist, and have him examined by his doctor to see if there are any physical issues he may have. But in general, he wants to know that you and your husband are in control. After all, you are the parents and he is only five. He is looking for that wall that will make him safe, and until you show him where the limit is, this behavior will go on. Unfortunately, in my case, my husband could never say no to my son, so it made my task that much harder. You are going to have be strict about behavior and saying no and not giving him things. Do not threaten anything unless you know you will follow through. I would take the tv and and computer activities away and just read and play games or let him draw or play with his own legos. You might want to try enrolling him in a martial arts class. They specialize in teaching children self discipline, focusing, and meditation techniques. Good luck!

When he does something good do you praise him. I read a book by James Dobson you can buy it at a bible book store on raising children. I was amazed how with just a different thing like thanking my children when they cleaned their rooms, thanking them for setting the table, etc. If good reactions from parents are given then they will try to do good things. good luck.

I am so sorry to hear what your family is going through. Sounds as though your son is very strong willed and maybe even creative, but has no concept of the long term results of his actions. No one is going to want to be friends with him and teachers will not want to have him in their classroom. He has not learned to control himself and resists the attempts of adults to try to control him.

I really think that finding a really good child psychiatrist or family counselor is your best bet. You are being patient and concerned and trying your best. You are not being hateful. Reach out for good help. Best of luck to you and your family.
N.

Ooo boy. As a teacher, I saw this, and as a parent I see it even more! I like the book "Love and Logic," but I think you might be beyond that. I hate to say it, but here is the pattern I have noticed: boys like this tend to have wussy, tired parents. From your e-mail, you sound tough enough, but you might want to reflect on it. I think parents forget that it's okay-- and good for your kid-- to say: "Hey! Quit it." And mean it. The poor little guy is looking for some safe boundaries. It must be terrible to be that out of control. Also, it's probably terrible to be in a classroom with him, so have some sympathy for his teacher and classmates! He needs his mama to say, "Quit." You do not need to be mean or crazy, but you have to have no wussy cell in you. You have to tame him. Ever train a horse or a dog? I'm going to get in trouble here: but there is a similar quiet strength you'll need to get through this. Guard the sanity and sanctity of your home with mama-bear ferocity. You will not tolerate nasty behavior. Never, ever wimp out. Think of the core-workout you'll get from being just iron-strong mama! The kid needs you. And, if you get through this, he's going to be an excellent man. He'll have the spirit AND the self-discipline. Self-discipline is the best gift we can give our kids, I think. Go, mama, go.

As a parent of two sons and two daughters and three grandchildren plus having a licensed child care for 36 years, temper tantrums are one thing but this is more. This is called having a rage or raging. I was told that this is learned behavior. That someone in the child's life that he has seened does this. With one child it was his Dad I was told later and with another child it was his Mom. Monkey see so monkey do. IGNORE him. He is seeking attention and you must not give him attention for bad behavior. I have done this and when the child is done, then we talk. Can you find a place for him to be but not in his room. Like a back porch or somewhere there are no toys or anything he can get hurt on. Also talk to his doctor. He needs professional help. The last child it took six months and he was then doing well in Circle Time, listening, doing fingerplays, sitting and eating, playing outside. He had a real tough time with social skills and wanted what he wanted then and he had to learn to take turns, to share, not pull things from the little kids younger than him. He was four years old. Do not withold love and affection but you must be very firm in what you say to him. No spanking or saying bad things about him. But he can not continue to be this way in school or someone will get hurt and he can not be thi way at home to his parents. Praise whatever you see to praise, set firm limits, and make your yes be yes and your no be no. I have seen so many parents say no only to say yes when their child throws a fit or breaks them down. That teaches them to throw a fit or whine more! You will have a well behaved son but it takes time. You have to be strong and do what is best for him even when it makes you sad.
F.

You need to both put him in his place verbally and tell him when he does this he can not speak to you this way and it won't be tollerated. My kids have not done this, when they tried I give them the mommy look, and they go running. If he keeps this up he will be a totally out of control child to adolescent. They get worse as they get older. I have three teenagers, and I thought the testing would stop when they finished being two, nope, it happens again when they are preteen also. Good luck, hold your ground firmly!!
W. m

Greetings E.: I just want you to know that my response is based on being the mother of 5, having been a foster mother and now a grandmother of several children. You are a mother that has hit the wall instead of your child. You are in control enough to seek advice andhelp while at the end of your rope. So give yourself a lot of credit!!! Some how he had learned that he was the King and you are his royal subjects-- it is now time to revolt!
I believe strongly in tough love and on strong boundries.
My adult children laugh and say Dad was easy, but you Mom, were tough as nails. I have never been one to say I am your friend, or buddy and I don't believe in just talking to your child to get them to agree to do the right thing ( mine would have walked on me like a rug). I am the parent and the one in charge. I have learned from the foster children that have come back into our lives, that it was the concret boundries and rules that were set that gave them balance and foundation when they moved from home to home. I am so grateful that you didn't take the easy way and cave into your childs demands!! I think that you should consider reading Dr. James Dobson, or contacting Focus on the Family. Dr. Dobson, helped me raise some pretty tough children. I honestly used the book on a bottom more than once as well.(My son, just came in and said swatting us never hurt us but disappointing Dad, almost killed us). Dr. Dobson, has a wonderful book on "Raising a Boy". Please, don't try and reason with him,-- he can't be reasoned with until he is in control of his emotions. Have you talked to your pedi. doc. about him? I have a child with learning disabilities, and I have seen children in his class act the same way. With all of our children, when they were out of control I put them into their room or a room that was safe to be in. If they chose to destroy anything then they were responsible to replace it or to live with out it. Life got kinda ugly when one child destroyed his toys and then had nothing to play with- the nut actually thought I'd replace things- so not going tohappen. They could not come out of the room until they were calm and then had to aplogise to the family for their attitude and the rudeness they showed. Sometimes they didn't come out til the next day! Missing a meal never hurt any of them-if they couldn't calm down.I actually had one 5 year old that spent a week cleaning the room at the end of the day for a teacher because of his rudeness to her! That same child did a lot of weed pulling to get out of trouble with me. My family only went to McDonalds, or other places as a treat so they didn't dare demand to go.. THEY KNEW THAT IT JUST WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN for at least a month after their choice of out bursts.Even if the rest of the family went they did not.It was their consequence for the choice of their actions.
I fully appreciate what the teacher must have been feeling as she may have been conserned for the other children. He sounds like he is as frustrated as you are. Have you talked to the principal to see if the school district has someone that can do a work up on him, and then report back to you with the findings?? I know that our district has that option thru Special Services; and your Principal can get it started. Parenting classes are nice but will take longer than you have to get him back in control. If he hurts another child he may even be suspended from school, or as one foster child had happen before we got her-- she was asked to go to a different school. I am sure that you are a careing and loving parent- how do I guess that?? Because you, havent given up on the child, are seeking help and are willing to do what you need to for him. Remember this has to be a team effort and that your husband and you deserve respect from your child esp a child of 5!! He must learn that from you! You have to set the values andrules for him to grow by. I wish you luck in this. I am here for you if you ever need to contact me.
I have to encourage you-- I have one son that today is a police officer-- he was a stinker as a kid at times; but is a great man today. He says that I used to tell him "which side of the bars do you want to end up on?" he says that helped him in his choice of line of work. All of my children that were troubled have become worth while adults that I admire and are wonderful parents themselves and also are using lots of love and tough love with their children. Nana G

This brings back memeories that are better left not mentioned when my daughter is around...but she was diagnosed ODD (Obstinate Defiance Disorder) at age 7. She would say/do the exact opposite of what was expected of her. She is also severe ADHD and has been on meds since then as well. I am not saying that YOUR child needs meds, because I went YEARS without allowing my kids to be on meds...as a matter of fact, she is our only on meds and she has three brothers with 2 of them having ADHD as well. It all depends on the child and what they can handle with or without meds. My boys struggle, but they CAN concentrate and behave if they put their minds to it...her on the other hand has an EXTREMELY difficult time without her meds, but is a straight A student in the GATE program with meds. I seriously believe that you should seek counseling...it tends to be a behavioral issue that CAN be helped with counseling as well. Praise often and tell him what a good boy he is and how proud you are that HE is your son!!! He will do so much better if he is built up and is able to be a possitive role model for other children...and possibly the teacher's "HELPER"! Good luck and God BLESS you and yours!

M....

We kinda went through the same thing with our son. We started with boundaries and gave him things to help out around the house. If he started up again with the fits wewould take away things he really likes ...such as tv show or games or even play time with friends. Reward him back when he his behavior changed or did something to help out with the family or with school. Limited him to mcdonalds and going out. Our issue was We explained things too much or include him and gave him choices. that's when the issues arised with the fits. We are happy to say... we are fit free. It is hard as a parent to change however in the long run it will benefit both sides parent and child.

Good luck

Hi E.:

Sorry to hear that. Have you tried the ideas from the book, "Have a new kid by Friday" Dr. Kevin Leman. I have and it worked for my 12 year old nephew and 3 year old daughter. Especially with the back talking.

Best of luck!

I'm so sorry E., Welcome to hell. Remember, somebody had to raise Einstein and our CEOs. I have one too, who at age three was shouting driving directions from his car seat in the back.
He's 17 now, and still the major strain of my crane....

A few things: My Spirited Child, is a pretty good book with some tools and techniques.
Surround yourself with groups, mothers groups, extended family, etc.. so he can see how other people behave. TRY TRY TRY to ignore the bad, and strongly reinforce the good behavior.

Make someone else be the heavy; you're husband or simply the circumstance. "Gosh, I KNOW. I wish things were different too. I'm on your side. Unfortunetly, they aren't. I feel for you and empathize."

NEVER LET HIM SEE YOU SWEAT. Don't flinch or falter. HE does need your love, just let him know how he gets it.

Good things, E.. Youare not alone.

R.

Honey, I am sooooo with you. I just had my 16 year old taken away by the cops because he had a fist fight with my dh and hit him with a table. He has now been diagnosed with ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder). I don't have a lot to offer in help as I am just now starting research on it myself but I can tell you that he is probably going to need meds and counseling. I just found this website that might help both of us www.conductdisorders.com . Sorry I couldn't be of more help but know that there are other moms out there dealing with the same thing. You are DEFINITELY not alone.

T.