Teenkids and Parents Sil on the Head

Since NO MAN EVER is going to correctly determine what HBA products a 12 year old girl needs or doesn't--how about suggest a $5 limit per trip for him for her? A man understands that language.

Parent of a 14-year-old girl here so you know where I'm coming from....

I love the idea of her -- not you, her -- pulling out all her toiletries and looking through them in one big session. I would involve her and make it more about, "Look, you know I have an issue with all the toiletries you love to buy, and frankly I know you appeal to dad that you need them when you're out with him and not me. (Say it objectively and not judgementally, but you're letting her know that YOU know she can get dad to buy what you won't.) So let's do an inventory of your lotions and potions and see what you have right now, what's full, what's nearly empty, what's for smell and fun and what's really needed for cleanliness. It will let me know whether you really do need certain things that I might not know you need, and it will let you see what you have that is actually 'just for fun' extras. There's nothing wrong with extras in themselves, and I'm not taking away any of those things that you have already, but let's see what you've got."

Then do the thing where you have her fill the kitchen table with them all. Be sure she gets everything -- every little lotion bottle in every bedroom drawer, every lip balm in a handbag, as well as the bathroom stuff. And makeup, as a separate pile. Be cool as she gathers it with you -- no comments on "What, another lotion bottle?!" or "Good grief, why do you have three of these?" (though it will be very tempting to say that. Oh, my, yes, tempting, Iknow, but resist for now!)

Then have her organize the stuff. Essentials --really needed stuff like one good shaving cream (I know, you used soap, but give her a pass on one shaving cream, maybe?), a body wash and a soap bar if she really uses both, one good quality, real moisturizing lotion, etc. Then she separates out the fun stuff that's for smell and looks, and then the makeup (because at 12, all makeup is for fun, frankly, unless she really does need to cover a scar or serious acne or something like that). She might fuss a bit about the line between necessary and just for fun, but stick to your definition as you see it -- while being cool and nonjudgmental again.

Then talk with her. She's going to find that she has a lot of the fun stuff. I would tell her that when the fun stuff is consumed, gone, and she gives you the bottle or tube, then she's free to get another one. Or she can get whatever she wants with her own money, but only after she sets aside a third of the money for charity and a third for savings. (Many families with allowances do this -- here's the allowance but you have to break it into one third for spending, one third for charity/church/whatever, and one third to save and not spend. So a larger overhaul of her own money might be in order here.)

Make sure dad is brought in to see the piles of stuff and that you and she show him what's for fun (including makeup). Then I'd tell him in front of her, "Next time you're in a store with Sally, now you both know that the new deal is, she uses her own money or gets nothing unless it's on a shopping list of items she and I have determined are needed."

If she brings home something that wasn't discussed beforehand, dad takes her to the store to return it. He will probalby resist doing that. But you and he need a separate long talk about how this is NOT really about one more iTunes card or one more lip balm but about teaching her the differnece between needs nad wants .

Tell your husband that I said this. One day I was in an expensive department store and I watched two teen girls and their mother pull out credit card after credit card after credit card, trying to find one that wasn't up to the MAX in order to pay for their purchases. I stood there thinking how sorry I felt for the husband who worked hard and can't keep the bills paid because of the irresponsibility of his family. MAYBE the father is a spendthrift too, I don't know. But MAYBE this is the mother's fault because she won't stop buying what SHE wants and has imparted this entitlement attitude to her girls.

Your husband needs to think about what this will do to his daughter's marriage. I can only imagine what will happen when these clothes horse girls I watched at that department store counter get married. What will their new husbands do when the credit card bills come in? Their marriages will be a mess.

What kind of wife will your daughter be, spending her husband's money like she has spent her daddy's? How will she ever be able to learn to love a man who she thinks she is supposed to be able to manipulate like she manipulates her daddy? To her, a man will be someone who is for buying her THINGS. To her, the only way for him to show her that he loves her is to let her spend money.

R., I gotta say that if your husband hears all what you tell him here and STILL does this stuff, you need to go to counseling with him. He is teaching his little girl to manipulate men. He will doom her to an unhappy marriage with anyone if he keeps this up. At 12, it's makeup and toiletry products. At 15, it's going to be clothes on top of the makeup and toiletries. At 17 it's going to be shoes and purses, on top of all the rest. And she'll be begging for a car, and not a used one either.

What will happen when she wants to go to the most expensive private college and nothing else will do? Daddy has paid for everything else. Why can't he pay for 4 years of this plus all the new clothes and "stuff" she wants on top of it. And get a job? What? Why should she have to work for any of this? She has a man (a daddy) to pay for everything.

Honestly, he has to start NOW to change this up so he doesn't ruin her.

This kind of thing is one of the biggest strains in my marriage, but it ends up being bigger things and we have a blended family that adds in extra tension. My oldest son and step-daughter are both 17 and both have jobs. They can pay for things that they want but don't need, but each of us defines "need" differently. My husband decided that his daughter "needed" a $400 prom dress and went ahead and paid for it even after we had a heated argument over it (and then we couldn't pay our phone/internet/cable bill so had no service for a few days). He also gives her money for brow waxing (really? I pluck...) and $55 hair cuts. Yet flips out when I pick up novelty socks for my son...if I get him socks, I need to get everyone socks even though they don't need them? No, that's insane.

If I were you, I would have a sit-down with both your husband and your daughter and put her on the spot. While HE might be clueless, SHE knows exactly what she's doing, and that's playing him to get things that she knows you won't buy her. She should have to own up to what she's doing and apologize to both of you.

Aside from that, maybe a better way would be to go through your spending for the past 6 months and figure out how much you actually spend on toiletries for her (maybe monthly average) that she needs and give her that in cash (or a Walgreens gift card) and have her be in charge of her spending. That way, there is no impulse spending at all for either you or your husband - if she's out with him or you and "needs" something, she can buy it with the money/gift card she's already allocated towards it. And if she spends that on stuff that's really a "want" and runs out of that money, then she'll be spending her own money on deodorant or will have to hold off until you replenish her "need" money again. Don't make the "need" spending something infinite and invisible...give her enough to cover her actual needs but let her know that when that runs out for a certain period of time, that's it.

If your husband legitimately has no clue what toiletries your kid already has (mine really doesn't with our boys either) then if he is in the store he simply telling your daughter, "Hang on while I check with mom." and make a quick call to you. This will prevent overbuying of stuff she doesn't need while showing your child that her parents are a united front and can't be manipulated.

If, however, the real issue is that your husband likes being the Yes-dad type and dosn't want to change, he will continue to undermine you and your daughter will continue to ask him for stuff.

It sounds like you've already talked about spending with him and he doesn't care. This is not a parenting problem so much as a marriage problem. You may need professional intervention with a marriage counselor.

I agree with putting all of the products out on the kitchen table, sorting by category (essential, enjoyable, waste of money). But put them all out without judgment at all - totally neutral. Include everything from sanitary products to make up to shampoo to nail files.

Then total up what was spent on those things. You can go on line to most stores and see what the purchase price is to get a ballpark figure. Then assign a subtotal to each category (essentials, fun/enjoyable stuff, and stuff we totally wasted money on). Take a piece of cardboard or card stock, and fold it over into a table "tent" sign, with the total written on it in marker. If you've got $50 in essentials, $100 in "fun", and $75 in "waste", then you've got $175 that you have to evaluate - what else could we have bought with $175 that was even more fun? For example, your daughter could have been given $50, and you $50, and your husband $50 - for less than what got blown on non-essentials. Sit your husband down (no matter how uncomfortable he is with his daughter sitting there with tampons and maxi pads and clearasil, and no matter how uncomfortable she is with her dad seeing that she gets her period or gets zits) and look at the total numbers without necessarily focusing on one product or another.

Then find a home for what isn't being used. SOMETIMES (not always), food pantries will accept opened packages of personal care products. And everything that cannot be donated but which can be recycled needs to be emptied out and cleaned for recycling. That should take your daughter and your husband a while to accomplish.

But yes, your problem is that your husband equates being "generous" with "doing whatever the kid wants." That's actually handicapping her for her adult life because she will have zero ability to manage money or make choices. Giving in to a teen or tween who "wants it now" is a problem.

I think it is a very good idea for her to pull out all of her "stuff" and place it on the kitchen table or something. Even catagorize it. Then your husband can see exactly what she has. My girls like to get stuff but they make a "wish" for it and when I have money I might let them get it. But they know and understand about buying things at the age of 16. It was not always that way, but it has gotten better. It kind of sounds like you girl wants the big girl stuff. The suggestion of giving her an allowance on a gift card or money card would teach her about budget etc, though the problem lies with others buying her the stuff.

How full is her bathroom with stuff?
You might be able to illustrate your point to your husband by taking it ALL OUT and put it all in front of him on the kitchen table.
And then ask him "I know she always wants more but after looking at this do you really think she NEEDS MORE?".
Seriously think of the money saved by not buying one more thing until EVERYTHING SHE HAS has been totally used up.
And if she tried to play you/dad by starting to throw things away to meet your requirement - she's in BIG trouble.

This is a tough one. On one hand, you want to instill good values in your daughter. On the other hand, you don't want to create arguments with your husband over shampoo. I totally get where you are coming from!

I guess you would almost have to get your husband on the same page with you regarding allowing the kids to spend their own money on "extras". If you can't be a united front on this, it will be really hard to solve this issue.

What I have done myself (my husband and I are on the same page regarding this issue, but sometimes the kids have "tricked" him into a purchase after I have said no) is if the kids walk in with an item that they tricked dad into buying (or gramma- that happens, too), I immediately return it to the store and return the money to whomever bought it. If it is something that cannot be returned then I deduct the funds out of their bank account (which is tied to my accounts).

Hopefully you can get your husband to agree to at least go along your idea of "extras". The last thing you want is to get into a discussion about the purchases in front of the child - then they really know that they can create issues by doing this.

Good luck!

My husband and I are a united front when it comes to parenting, so we don't deal much with this.

That said, I think I'd have a sit down meeting with your husband and daughter on this topic. Let your daughter know that, yes, you want her to have the things she NEEDS, but the extra things that she just wants are up to her to buy with her own money. Let her know that you and she will go through her toiletries and makeup together, because it may be that SHE doesn't realize what she already has, and that you and dad will pay for must haves, such as soap, basic razors and shave cream, shampoo, face cleanser, deodorant, some makeup basics, feminine products and hair products, but ONLY when she is out of those things and actually in need of them.

If she goes out with Dad and has him buy things, knowing she has them at home or they aren't "needs," you'll pack her back up to return them to the store, AND she will be punished for misleading Dad.

Put the onus on your daughter, who should learn not to mislead people and take advantage of their good nature, and the difference between what she wants and what she actually needs.

I bet she plays you off him when she wants to go out and you said no, too. Communication is important.

I would talk to him about it. She's telling him that she doesn't have essential things and he's thinking he is doing a good deed by providing things she needs. He probably feels he has no idea what a 12 yr old girl's hygiene needs are, so he's trusting her to tell him. It sounds to me like he's taking her at face value and she's taking him for a ride. I would tell him that you're going to go through her stuff with her and then come up with a new plan so she doesn't play the Bank of Dad card, and he can be more confident that he's really buying needs.

I would also address that while things are not always same-same, if he buys for one but not the other all the time then he's hurting his relationship with his child. AND if she never learns to wait for things (like for a birthday) then she 1. doesn't appreciate it and 2. doesn't have much to look forward to. What I do with my DD is take a photo on my phone for her wish list. That way it's noted, but not bought right then if it's pricey or not really a need and I'm only buying groceries. You say she uses her own money with you, so she CAN use her money with dad. She just knows he'll pay. If she gets everything at 12, she will be unbearable with her expectations at 15 or 20.

When my SD would come shopping and ask for groceries for herself, it was amazing how things changed when it was her money vs ours. She was happy to pile up unnecessary things on our dime, but not hers. We always give the kids the option to buy with their own funds, as long as the item was appropriate. But we always reserved the right to say no to our money.

Part of it should be her digging out everything she has as someone suggested. Help her get it organized so she sees it. Discuss why she thinks she needs all of it, if she uses it, what she could do without, etc. Find out the values and help her see the cost of what she's asking him to buy. Make it pertain to her. If Dad buys $30 in shampoo, that could have been those sneakers she wanted. Or dinner. Or her cell phone for a month. It could be put aside for her education or a family trip. Etc. Make it matter to her.

Some shelters will take unused items, but you may also be able to freecycle them or offer to friends and family. Declutter what she's never going to use.

Rather than these random trips, get a grocery lister. Put it on the fridge and tell everyone that things that need to be purchased go on that list. My 6 yr old can follow this rule. Not on the list? Not going to be bought. We go on weekends, and usually remind people to add to the list, so there's no excuse. I've also put NO MORE of x item when we've overbought. Before she gets a new bottle of shampoo, she has to show you the old one. If she balks, you remind her that you've seen the pile of products in her bathroom and there is no need to buy more until one is empty. Talk to DH about this new plan and how you need his buy in on teaching her financial responsibility.

If he wants to do treats, then consider a family limit, like $10 a week. The kids can petition you for needs or wants above that or buy things on their own.

Something that happened with my SD is that her mom would buy and buy and buy...and SD didn't care. We could literally take a whole trash bag of broken toys out of her room and she'd just wait for the next mall crawl. But when I gave her a CD player and DH and I both said we would not replace it, then suddenly it had value and lasted a long time.

Kids who grow up with a hand out become adults with their hand out. I know people who to this day are struggling financially because they can't say no (themselves or others) and their credit is sky high and they're 40 yr olds with a good job looking for mom and dad's bailout, nevermind that mom and dad are retired...Parenting is a marathon. Remember the long view on things like this. Remind DH that what he does with DD is more important than what he buys.

ETA: As for digging stuff out, either have the boys use another bathroom for a while, or pick a day they'll be out and she's home. Or just tell them to butt out because they are next. I bet they have stuff they don't need, either.

Maybe our family is the weird one, but my husband rarely takes the kids to a grocery type store. That's *my* domain. Tell the kid that if she needs personal care supplies, she either pays for them herself OR writes them on a list and gives it to you for purchase with your regular shopping. Take husband out of the equation altogether. Unless he plans to buy her sanitary supplies as well.
That would be my solution. One list. If it isn't on the list, she doesn't get it bought for her. She uses her own money.

You and HE need to sit down and talk about this without her there. He needs to go in her bathroom and see what she has. He needs to understand what's what.

I do think it's silly to let her have all this stuff. My 12 year old granddaughter has the bumpy skin and needs an excellent cleaner and then an excellent moisturizer for her skin. That's fact, straight from the doc. Over the counter stuff works well. She just has to use it and use it the right way. So I supervise this. I get the products and I show her how to use them. If she doesn't use them right or wastes them she's out.

I think these things are needs. Not desires. Tell hubby when you and he are sitting down talking about this and he's seen her collection of things in her bathroom so he can understand she doesn't need them, well, ask him what he thinks. Ask him if he understands why you've told her no about all the other stuff. If he doesn't get it then....it's a lost cause.

He is a man and can make his own choices. If he wants to please her and let her have extra stuff then you have to accept this is going to happen. Let him handle her shopping and you step back. He'll get tired of it quickly or they'll find themselves having fun.

Just let him know that you will expect the money you need and want for things will still be expected to be there, this spending will have to come out of his own spending money. He'll learn....

I agree with you in principle on the spending and buying excessive stuff and dad spoiling her. One of the best things I did in raising my kids was be fairly cheap with my kids. I made them get jobs and buy most of their own stuff. They learned to be very industrious and not entitled.

You need to get dad on the same page with you. He will probably never agree with you, from the sounds of it. Maybe he should not be the one to go shopping with your daughter, except on rare occasion, because it sounds like he can't help himself.

As far as one kid getting something another kid doesn't have, that doesn't matter. Things don't have to be exactly equal or "fair" between kids. If the other kids whine because they didn't get something, let them whine.

If shopping is the only area where your husband undermines you, then just take over most of the shopping. If he does it in other areas, you may need to go to a counselor to help come to a mutual agreement, because it's very unhealthy to have one parent undermine another.