Sleep - Haverhill, MA

I think 8 weeks is much to young to let her cry it out - ok, so I think at any age it is just wrong. At this age her only way of communication is by crying, and to have her cry and to not respond to her at this age just doesn't seem right.

I think its absolutely fabulous that you are expressing breast milk for her. But, breast milk is much more digestable than artificial milk so she needs to be fed on her schedule, on her demand.

Is there someone else who could take over since she is getting bottles to feed her for at least part of the night so you can sleep?

It sounds harsh, but this stage of her life will go by so quickly, and being sleep deprived mama is part of it. Hang in there, it will pass quickly.

My daughter did the same thing to me. I actually had her start sleeping in her car seat. She had a lot of mucus as a baby and lying on her back did not help. She really slept much better in her seat. After some time, I put her car seat in her crib and then I would have her take afternoon naps in her crib right on the mattress. I then tried to get her to do it at night too. It took some time. I think she slept in her seat for 4 months! She is now a lovely 13 year old and sleeps in her bed just fine. K.

Oh my. I type a long response and my internet went out. Anyhow, basically I agreed 8 weeks (or any age) is too young for CIO. I have heard great things about "no cry sleep solution":
http://www.amazon.com/No-Cry-Sleep-Solution-Gentle-Throug...
Good Luck!

PLEASE do not cry it out. It is cruel, and physically unhealthy for such a tiny baby :(

Babies that age need to be close to their mamas at night, and need to have constant access to the breast. Not allowing her to eat when she needs to eat could lead to dehydration, malnutrition, and failure to thrive.

Part of having babies is not sleeping at night. It's part of parenting. Your responsibility doesn't end at 8PM.

Falling asleep at the breast is a natural, normal, healthy and appropriate way to parent a baby to sleep.

They are only babies once.

Hi there, I can totally understand your problem! my son was born 10 weeks early and when he finally did come home from the hospital, all i wanted was to be with him and provide him with everything he needed and wanted. he is now 4.5 months old and doing wonderfully. Anyway, my point is that he was a horrible sleeper. His problem is that he is truly hungry...I was expressing breastmilk for him and he just got hungry faster than formula fed babies. It was exhausting for a couple weeks but what I did was put him in his crib, swaddled, he stayed asleep longer that way. when he would wake up, I would not turn lights on or unswaddle him, unless for a diaper change. I didnt really talk alot to him, i just fed him, burped him and put him back to bed. for awhile he woke up 4 times a night sometimes. I noticed after a little bit that 2 of those wake ups were not for hunger but for cuddle time! I would soothe him but not sleep with him, put him back until the next feeding. after about a month of this, he now sleeps from about 10:30-4:30 and then wakes at 7 am for good. I could never ever sleep well with him in my bed, it was not good for either one of us. Now I sleep great, he is not waking unless he is truly hungry and we are both quite happy! sorry this is sooooo long. good luck!!

My pediatrician always said the rule of thumb was weight in terms of sleeping. 12 pounds of baby should yield 6-8 hours of sleep. I let mine cry it out (somewhere between 8-11 weeks) and it only took a couple of nights of intense crying for a very short period of time. For those short minutes, it will feel like an eternity! The upside is when it is over, the whole family will benefit. Just don't cave! 3 minutes can feel like an hour. In reality, I don't think the crying was ever more than 10-15 minutes. Sweet dreams!

In my opinion, yeah, she's too young for crying it out. My daughter was almost a year old before I put a timetable for her sleeping, but the best advice will come from her pediatrician who knows her best.

I also have a friend who has an almost-three-year who still nurses her daughter to sleep, and she has no problem having her daughter sleep with her... so it's up to you.

My daughter "cried it out" at 12 weeks and my son at 5 weeks (kids are 5 and 3). I gave them their bottles while I rocked them in their nursery at night in very dim light. I rocked them till they fell asleep or not, depending, but I never made sure they were asleep. Same procedure at naps and so forth. They never cried for more than 15 minutes and never for more than 4 nights. They both kept a consistent sleeping schedule from the beginning. They both remain very good sleepers AND very happy, loving, well adjusted kids. I see a lot of "OMG no CIO Ahhhh!" advice and I must disagree : )
You aren't being selfish. You need to get good rest, if you don't you are no good to anyone and YOU MATTER TOO!

Hi,

Do you swaddle her? I swaddled my son nice and snugly and that helped, I think. Also, a pacifier and white noise (I just put a radio on a static station) worked well for us. He gave up the pacifier with no problem, and we still use the white noise because he's a light sleeper, and it helps to drown out other sounds that would otherwise wake him up (he's 11 months old now). Hope that helps!

:) S.

P. my son will be 6 weeks on Saturday and I know what your going through. My daughter, she's 8 now, would not sleep in her crib period so I put her to sleep in a chair that vibrated, strapped her in rightly and placed the chair in her crib for safety sake. With my son I find doing the same thing each night really helps keep him out at night. I use the same blanket, give him a warm bath and the last bottle before I put him down. Letting her cry it out will not hurt her either! Sometimes you have to walk away so you keep your own sanity, she'll sense you getting frustrated or tense and react based upon that. Good luck!

P.,
I too agree that it is difficult to allow your baby to cry it out, HOWEVER, if your daughter is well fed, has a clean diaper and is in a safe place, it will not damage her at all.

When my son was four months old, he was still not sleeping through the night. I was completley miserable! He was waking up at least once every night (sometimes twice) and I was about to lose my mind. So, finally after making lots of excuses (for him and me) my husband and I decided it was time to let him cry. He did, it took two nights of a little crying each night but that did the trick.

I will admit that I rocked my son to sleep until very recently, he just turned one, but that was all about me. I LOVED rocking him to sleep, he didn't NEED me to rock him.

In regards to the feeding schedule, don't let anyone talk you out of that either. If your daughter is growing and gaining weight, then chances are shes is getting enough milk. Feeding on demand, as popular a method as it is, isn't neccessarily the best way for everyone. I fed on a schedule and will do it again the next time around. What really confirmed it for me was when my son was in the NICU his first week of life. All of the babies in the NICU were fed on a three hour schedule.

And as far as being "selfish", go easy on yourself. You have to take care of you order to take care of your family. There is nothing wrong with needing and wanting more sleep!

Best of luck!

Yes. 8 weeks old is way too young. Unfortunately you have to get up with her. I haven't heard of anyone letting their child cry it out before 5 months... and it's not good for children that young to sleep through the night because they need to eat more frequently.

I understand your desire to have your baby in her own bed and fall asleep on her own. She is only 8 weeks though. Not a really good age to CIO. My 2 year old didnt like her crib AT ALL at that age. She ended up sleeping in her swing or car seat. If I put her in her crib, within 10 minutes she would be up screaming. So I asked her doctor and he said its ok if she sleeps in the swing until she transitions into the crib. So that is what I did. She slept PERFECTLY in her swing and actually started sleeping longer. I made sure she was out of the swing during the day and had plenty of play time. When she was about 3 months I decided it was time to move her. She hated it. So the pedi said to use her car seat(since it was an upright position) in her crib to get her used to the room. I did that. Then a week later I put her in her bed but elevated the matress. The doctor said she might have acid reflux and laying flat on her mattress was causing pain or irritation. I put a big pillow under one end of the mattress and layed on on that end. I made sure she was swaddled(since she loved to be warm and cozy)and had white noise too. She was sleeping like her normal self in a week. At about 5 months she didnt need the incline anymore(I dont know why but she didnt) I hope you can take some of the things I did and see if it helps your daughter. If your daughter is still waking every 3 hours, maybe you can try to keep her in your room in a playpen or bassinette. That way she is close and you can just grab her from your bed. Good luck.

Hey P.,
I saw another post recommended "Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child." I strongly agree! That was a great help to me with my first child. Excellent book - I got it from my local library. Someone recommended another book to me, which I haven't gotten yet, but they told me the "gist" of it is to have the baby Sleep, Eat Play in that order. Try not to let the baby fall asleep while eating. I have a 10 week old and a 2 year old, so I know where you are coming from, and I also "feel your pain" with wanting to stretch out in bed and sleep comfortably. :-) Without having read the book, but following that S.E.P. pattern, I have already seen progress in my 10 week old. It's not always "textbook" as they say, but he's getting better and better at falling asleep on his own in his bassinet. I feed him when he wakes up and then "play" with him on my lap, or on the floor with one of those activity mats or tummy time (sometimes 5-10 minutes is all he can handle of the play) and then put him in his bassinet to fall asleep. I don't let him cry it out per se, but if he starts to fuss, I don't run right in there. I let him grunt and groan for a little while, and if he really gets going, I pick him up and try burping him first... I lay him back down and try again. If necessary, sometimes I give him a binky. But I'd say at least 90% of the time he is falling asleep on his own in the bassinet. If he falls asleep while nursing I usually change his diaper to wake him up to play, and then put him in the bed awake. Hope that helps!!! It's been working for me. It's taken about 2 weeks for us both to get used to it, but I'd say it's VERY successful and soon I expect he'll be able to do it 100% of the time!

God bless!

I had my son cry it out just before 12 weeks. I was going back to work and it was crucial he learn to fall asleep. Now he is the best sleeper ever. I didnt breast feed but what I would do is wake my son up just before I went to bed and fed him. Sometime around 10pm. This seemed to stretch him out till at least 4am.

I highly recommend Kim West's Book Good Night, Sleep Tight. This is her website http://www.sleeplady.com/. Her section on newborns would be invaluable to you right now--it will not only help you now, but it will be immensely helpful as she gets older. I found this book when my daughter was 6 months old, and I will definitely be using it from day one with my next baby!

But, to answer your question--yes, 8 weeks is too young to cry it out. But that doesn't mean you can't start to lay the foundations now to create wonderful sleep habits that will last well into toddler-hood.

Also, Ferber method is very good if Sleep Lady doesn't work for you.

Also, ditto on swaddling! Worked like a charm when my 9 month old was 8weeks!

Good luck!

Hi there, I don't think she is too young to let her CIO. My daughters pediatrician told us crying never hurt anyone. Anyways if you don't feel comfortable with that yet then you have to wait till she is in a deep sleep to put her down, the way to tell that is by picking up her hand and then let it go. If her hand just falls as if she was passed out then she is a deep sleep and is safe to put her down. If you pick up her hand and there is movement then she is not in a deep sleep.
This worked for us every time.
Good Luck

I know what you are feeling like - my 5 month old slept literally on me, belly to belly, for the first 10 weeks of her life! with the empty bassinet was right next to the bed.... My advice is just to be patient. Eventually my daughter was able to sleep on her own in her crib. I would rock her until she was completely asleep and then put her in her crib. and I just kept doing that until she consistently slept in her crib all night. She is still feeding once or twice per night, but she's not in our bed any more. and I'm also able to put her in her crib drowsy and she'll put herself to sleep. In my opinion, your baby is way too young to cry it out. She is looking for security and comfort from her mom!!

I feel your pain, P.! First of all, in my opinion, 8 weeks is much too young to let her cry it out. We had some similar issues with my daughter also. I just kept trying her in the crib... for naps, when she was awake and happy, several times at night, etc. Get her used to her sleeping space. It might also help to put a pillow under her mattress so she is at a slight incline- often, when babies are lying flat on their backs, they get a falling sensation. She may not experience this when she is snuggled beside you. Of course, try swaddling and then packing rolled blankets at her sides will help her feel secure. They also sell "sleep positioners" at any walmart, target, or baby store which are foam wedges and such to help comfort baby in a crib.
Good luck!

I don't think you should let her cry it out. Honestly I wouldn't ever let a baby cry it out. I would continue to feed her to sleep. Good luck!

I agree that 8 weeks is much too young to CIO--she needs you, even if it's not convenient. And I know about sleep deprivation! My second (I have 3) was a truly horrendous sleeper. The little guy would stay awake for hours each night--I *wished* he would nurse to sleep, but no dice.

I tried CIO around 10 mos but it honestly made things *worse* and after a dedicated week we stopped and started to work ourselves back to where we'd started.

The story is long and in the end we discovered that there was a very real medical reason he couldn't sleep. The poor little guy was crying because he needed to be comforted, and I regret ever denying him that out of ignorance.

At 8 weeks they really need to eat a LOT and they really need the comfort of you and your presence. Go ahead and start a night time routine, and do your best to help her start the night in her own bed, even if you're rocking or nursing her to sleep to get there. But if she needs to come with you in the night why not? As she sleeps longer in the night she'll spend less and less time with you--it will happen! There will probably even be a time when you miss her warm little midnight cuddles.

At 2.5 even my extremely poor sleeper spends all night in his own bed. And although #3 spends some time with me every night now I know that one day she'll be in her own bed all night, too. Until then we're left a bit tired and worn--the price of parenting 24/7, I'm afraid!

Hang in there--it really will pass before you know it!

I'm currently working on sleep with my 7 month old. I'm reading the No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley, and it is very good.

I found the sleepsense program by Dana Obleman very helpful. From what i remember you put the baby in the cot awake. I warmed the matress with a wheat pack first (so there wasn't as much shock). This takes perserverence though as at first bub won't like it. I read somewhere it takes up to 7 days to change a behaviour. I can't remember all the steps of her program but i know it's not a "let them cry it out" program. More of a weening program than a cold turkey. Anyway i'd suggest googling Dana Obleman Sleepsense and see what you think.

My son ( who is 15 mths old) did not want to leave my bed either. He had no desire to go into his crib...but he love his bassinet on his pack-n-play. Since it was at the end of my bed I think since he could still hear us and "see" us he felt better. I also always play music at night for him...right now he is really into lite rock stations..lol
A few months ago he liked oldies 103..lol anyway i think white noise is the key. I hope you find something to help ...after 10 months of sleeping in his crib he is back in bed with me ;( it was due to my upstairs neighbors thinking we live in a club like house and waking him ( and the 4 other boys) up every night..he became scared and has been in my bed for 5 months ...urgh. Trying to get him back into his bed but it is HARD and gets HARDER as they get older.
Ok Good luck and congrats on you 2 babes

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8 weeks is WAAY too young to cry it out. Sleep patterns doen't really habituate until 4 months or so.

Do you swaddle? That may help. I also suggest "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Dr. Weissbluth. It has great information and ways to get your child to sleep without CIO. It also has info on sleep for all ages. My DD is 9 weeks, so I'm right there with you.

I am an advocate for a family bed... That being said, perhaps she can sleep in the middle of the bed with your hand on her? Or closer to her dad? It is so much easier than getting up all night when she needs you.
I honestly believe letting your child cry it out, especially so young, would not be doing either of you any favors. She will lose trust that you will be there for her if she needs you.
Congratulations on the breastfeeding. You are doing a wonderful thing for your beautiful baby!

I'm certainly no expert just going through everything for the first time with my 9 mo old! But here is what we did: she slept in a bassinet in our room until she was 3 mo. old- I think she liked the bassinet because it was smaller- the cribs are so big compared to the babies! I started putting her in her crib during the day a little bit- at first just laid her down and put the mobile on above her- sometimes put a few toys in there- I thinked this helped her to feel safe and to have positive associations w/ her crib- next I started putting her in there for naps (although in the beginning sometimes she napped in her crib, sometimes in our bed...I tried not to stress about it). Eventually, probably 5 mo. she just started to be ok w/ taking all of her naps in her crib and sleeping in there at night- I usually nursed her to sleep (I know, a no no in a lot of books, but it worked for us!), put her paci in and she went right down! She is transitioning on her own from even wanting to be nursed asleep- now she just wants her paci and then goes down...

all that to say, I stressed about a lot of details and truly my daugther was just ready to do things when she was ready and gave me no fight when she was ready. That's probably not the case with all kids, but give it a few more weeks and see if she seems more ready...good luck!

Hi P.,
I think 8 weeks old is much too early for your baby to be crying it out. At the same time, I totally feel your pain! It is hard to be the best mom you can be to two little ones when you are sleep-deprived! My son (now nearly 4) has been a great sleeper since he was your daughter's age. But my daughter (almost 2) was a rotten sleeper when she was an infant. She would wake up as soon as she was put to bed just like your baby! A friend of mine gave me some advice that worked for us. We put a heating pad in her bassinet on LOW heat for about 15 minutes before we put her down. When it was time for her to go to bed, we removed the heating pad and put her into the warm bassinet, and she slept! Apparently it was too much of a transition for her to go from Mommy's or Daddy's warm arms to a cold bed, so warming up her sleep area made a difference. I hope this helps!
L.

I would try getting her to sleep on her own first for naps. Like when you can be in the same room and sing or talk softly to her so she is reassured by your voice but you can do something else at the same time.

In my opinion 8 weeks is much too young for cry it out. An 8 week old that is crying is crying because she needs something. She's hungry or she's wet or she wants her mom or dad. I totally understand your need for sleep especially with a preschooler running around. But she hasn't been alone for the first 9 months of her life, she's been permanently attached to you! If you're married, can dad help? My second did not sleep well by herself either and we found out that she actually slept better on her daddy's chest!

You may want to attend a LLL meeting to ask about ways to get comfortable in bed. I've never been but it's much easier to demonstrate in person than to write out!

One trick is to warm the mattress. Also you can sleep with her sheet so it gets your scent on it, then put it on her mattress. Or if she is sleeping in your bed, get into bed with her and let her nurse to sleep if that's what works for now, then when she's asleep and she drops the latch, just carefully slide away. Or try having dad do a little rocking and then the putting to bed. It's comfort but a degree removed from mom, does that make sense? That worked with both of our kids. And we had lots of problems getting them to stay asleep due to teething.

She's really too young to respond to a routine yet but you can still start one and she will grow into it.

It's so hard when babies won't sleep! I have a refluxy baby, so I sympathethize, but I don't think crying it out is the answer. Even CIO enthusiasts like Ferber recommend waiting until 6 months. I also got a lot out of the No Cry Sleep Solution. Recent studies have shown that crying it out can in fact harm a baby.

Some studies on Crying it out:
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/04.09/ChildrenNee...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/14/the_odd_body_crying/

Some other helpful info:
8 INFANT SLEEP FACTS EVERY PARENT SHOULD KNOW
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070200.asp

31 WAYS TO GET YOUR BABY TO GO TO SLEEP AND STAY ASLEEP EASIER
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070300.asp

SLEEP-TRAINING
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070700.asp

Hi,

Have you tryed laying the baby down and gently patting or rubbing her back or side to reasure her that you are still there until she falls asleep. She may cry for a wile and only you can judge when you need to pick her up again. Sounds like (I have children but I'm not an expert)seperation issues for her, at eight weeks this is normal. Your touch may be all she needs to settle her into sleep. Just an idea hope it is helpful.

PS Your not selfish your human. You need your space too.

I have a 14, 13, 8 year old and now a 4 month old baby who is very different from my nice calm other babies. She fussed a lot and it has been so long I wasn't sure when to let her cry it out. 8 weeks is definately to young, what I found worked best was to find something she enjoyed...like the swing or during the day she loved the bjorn or I also have a "new native" sling, it is very lightweight and comfortable for all. It can be stressful carrying them around and losing sleep at night (mine still gets up 2 or 3 times a night) but once you find what makes them most comfortable it gets easier. If the baby will sleep longer in the swing or car seat I say it's ok to let them do it...it won't last forever but for the time being it will at least give us some extra sleep. At around 3 months I could see that her fussiness was sometimes for show and thats when I started letting her self soothe a little more and now she goes to sleep on her own after only a few minutes. Hope this helps!

We had some success with a good tight swaddle-- it makes babies feel secure like they're in your womb. Miracle Blanket is great for this. As far as going to sleep while nursing, I wouldn't worry about it! My husband and I spent many weeks trying to get our baby to fall asleep without nursing (advice courtesy of the baby whisperer... whose charms never seemed to work with our little love), and then gave in. The result? A 6-month old that is an awesome sleeper: falls right asleep, sleeps through the night. Good luck, and don't be afraid to follow your instinct!

I think she's too young to cry it out, but ask the phone nurse at your pediatrician's office for another opinion.
Consider a humidifier on low that produces a hum?!

i am glad that u express breast milk into bottle instead of formula. have u tried contact nipple shield? by melda? my son had poor latch on (6 wks preemie) and was at nicu for a month. i refuse give up with breastfeed because of his poor latch on. i used nipple shield for few weeks (real bad latch on) and it helps got him latch on well.

co sleeping may help put ur 8 wks sleep? nurse her to sleep does helps. i always nurse my son to sleep @ bedtime at 18 mos and now still but not sippy cup but sippy cup with straw as of now :o) (he is 2 now)

i never like let baby CIO at all. because that is not how baby learn to soothe herself to sleep and no comfort there too.

good luck!

Our daughter slept pretty well when she was an infant, the expected wake ups for feedings but we read the book by Ferber called Solve Your Childs Sleep Problems and it was a miracle. If I remember correctly, he says that children do not need to wake to feed after 2 or 3 months of age. He also says your child should always be put to bed awake so that s/he can learn to fall asleep without you. This translates to being able to fall back asleep without you should s/he wake in the night.

I strongly recommend this book, it has saved us!

Hi P.,

She is only 8 weeks old, teeny thing! She's way way too young for CIO and even DR. Ferber is going back against what he has said about CIO. She won't really be able to sleep on her own for several months. Plus remember this will change over time and to enjoy it. I know you're tired but please don't force this poor little babe into something she's not ready for. It will be traumatic on her if you do. And it'll be traumatic on you too. You're rest time will come.
Good Luck!

Hi P.. Your little one is a young to develop structured sleep habits - right now. I would take notice of what DOES make her fall asleep and use it to your advantage.

If it is nursing, then nurse her, when she falls asleep, jostle her a little so she is just a bit awake, then put her to sleep. Stay with her until she falls all the way back asleep. You can pat her, talk to her, etc, and even pick her up if you need to. Once she settles down and is almost asleep, put her back down. You may have to do it a few times, and even resort to old ways to get her to sleep, and then try again next time. Each time it gets better.

I started at about 8 weeks and my daugher is now 14 weeks, and I can plop her in her crib after feeding her in the middle of the night (if she even wakes up), and most times she will go to sleep all by herself. AND she was colicky!

The book that helped me the most was 'The Happiest Baby on the Block.'
This is a NO CRY solution. And it worked like a charm!
It tells you how to re-create the sensation of the womb for the baby so they feel cozy in their own space. He also gives advice on weaning babies off of sleep props and it is not hard to do.

I also have made my daughter's crib a fun place. I play with her in it everyday so she now loves her crib. I never let her cry it out because - one - I could not stand it, and two - I had a friend where it backfired, and her little one was petrified of her crib after a bad crying session.

For me, my daughter loves to be bounced on my knee to go to sleep for naps. At first I had to do it for 10 minutes, and got it down to 2. Once she was just about asleep, I put her in her crib, and talked her to sleep.

Now I put her in her crib holding her and jiggle her a little bit, then just talk to her until she is asleep. The entire process is down to under 5 minutes. I know in the next month I will simply just be able to put her down for naps without any added assistance. Besides I like giving her an extra cuddle before sleep!

I hope I have not overwhelmed you. But do NOT worry about how your baby goes to sleep - getting her to sleep is the most important thing.
Sleep training now at 8 weeks is a great thing to start, but if it does not work right away, don't fret, it WILL day by day. She is too young now to know any better, and it will just stress you out.

Please feel free to ask me any more questions!

I found that my son didn't like the vast emptiness of a crib... and THAT was the problem, not being alone.

I transitioned him slowly - moving up sizes... Car Seat for 2 weeks, bassinett for 2 weeks, those travelling cribs for 2 weeks... up to a crib...

The first couple of days in the car seat, I held his hand while he napped - letting him know I was there, but he wasn't sleeping with me.

Good luck

I totally agree on the swaddling, white noise (amazon has great white noise cd's and you can play one track on repeat all night) and the paci. I recommend the book "Happiest Baby on the Block" that talks about why these techniques help with sleep. I also believe this early on, all you can do is set down patterns of behavior to build upon in the future. So, getting him into a routine may take time, but I would stick with it. I also think that if you want to get your child into a crib or bassinet, you have to make a promise to yourself that this is where he will sleep no matter what, and after a few days, he will learn to sleep there because he will have no choice. However, that being said, I really see no problem with a baby sleeping in bed with the parents as long as it is done safely. I think I read that it becomes hard to get the baby out of the bed after 6 months when stranger anxiety sets in.