Sigh - Discipline Guidance for Soon to Be 5 Y/o Boy

Sign him up for Karate. They teach discipline, impulse control, and will tire him out. You need to be firm, consistent, and absolutely never waffle.
Set some rules - with him. Let him help decide what the consequences of bad behavior or rule breaking will be.
You mus t must must be absolutely consistent with discipline.

Sounds like he needs relationships with others, and more socialization especially involving contact with adults in positions of authority. One person suggested karate - that's a good idea. So is tai kwon do. So is soccer. So are swimming lessons.

If one of his problems is yelling, then don't you yell at him. That tells him yelling is an acceptable way to deal with anger and frustration. Instead, be incredibly calm. Don't react when he says he hates you. Do not accept blame. Are you trying too many things, and so he's confused about the consequences? Pick a discipline style and stick to it.

If "time out" means you put him in a chair and then sit there to keep him in it, stop. I'd put him in his room. It sounds like he gets plenty of attention when he misbehaves, either because you are yelling or because you are talking him down, or because you feel he has no one else in his life but you two. So he needs to be removed from your presence when he's out of control. If he is the kind of kid who throws things when he's alone in his room, take out everything but anything that truly comforts him. When my son had tantrums, he went to his room until he could calm himself. When he threw his hot wheels and legos all over, those got put in the attic. He got to keep his 2 favorite stuffed animals and his special security blanket, but that was it. If he misbehaved in a store or a restaurant, we packed up and left immediately - that's a hassle for absolute sure! - but it's highly effective. If he had a tantrum in the car, I pulled over and got out of the car so I couldn't hear him. I stood at a distance where he could see me and where I could ensure that he was safe, but I just carried a book of crossword puzzles and sat there calmly doing them. Okay, maybe I wasn't filling in any answers because I was steaming, but to anyone else, I looked relaxed and occupied. He figured out pretty quickly that a) the car wasn't moving while he was ranting, b) I wasn't listening to him while he screamed, and c) I was perfectly fine doing something else without him.

If you think his rages are really out of control, you can consider investigating whether he needs outside intervention. You don't say this, but I have a few colleagues who had extremely angry or volatile kids, and they also had multiple food allergies or sensitivities (sensory issues, etc.). When they solved the food problems, they solved the emotional stuff. There are phenomenal nutritional solutions that don't involved elimination diets. If your son has none of these issues, ignore this part. But if some of those factors are present, there could be a lot you can do. I work in this field and can't tell you how many happy kids are underneath rages and emotional upset that is related to food imbalances.

Good luck. Let me know if you need more info.

When the kids are acting like this it's usually because they are not being listened to. For instance, my grandson will want to get in the fridge. I'll see him open the door and I'll automatically say Get out of the fridge. He tends to get food out and play with it, on the walls, on the TV screen, the carpets, on the floor, where ever it's fun to make a mess.

He'll slam the door, toss a bar stool, throw a dish, etc... If I can be calm and ask him why he's mad he will usually be able to say things like I need a drink, I want some milk, I'm hungry.....

By asking him what it is he really wants or needs right then I can find out the root of the issue. If I just start laying down the law and trying to make him conform to my wishes it only escalates.

I can tell him Please let me know when you need in the fridge, I'll be glad to help you. Let's get you that drink now. And he's instantly calmer. Because I asked him what was wrong and listened.

When he's going off about something else, he doesn't want to get in the van, he wants to ride his bike instead of going to class, he wants to eat ice cream instead of waiting a few minutes until dinner is done, things that he has to do that he doesn't want to do. It's all about "how" you say it.

There is such a fine line here. He needs to mind and do what he's asked but he also needs to feel important and listened to.

It's pretty hard to find that line. Finding what is setting him off can stop the event right then.

One of the things I have learned differently this time raising kids is that if I stop and change my approach I can make the situation changed.

I can't think of a specific situation to use as an example. If he wants something and you're not going to say yes, why?

Is it the wrong time for his request? Like wanting ice cream to eat while you are cooking dinner. Then the answer is "Yes, you CAN have ice cream as soon as we eat all our dinner, we're having ice cream for dessert". By simply saying it different ways he will get used to your boundary and he'll eventually accept it.

Is it dangerous? Wanting to ride his bike in the street because the sidewalk is just not enough room. Sitting down and explaining how dangerous it is can help to understand and accept his safety is at risk, it's not just a "I'm the boss and I am saying NO".

Is it non-compliance? I don't want to clean my room! Then setting simple goals and giving some sort of reward for tiny small steps can change that explosion.

"You can watch 30 minutes of cartoons when all your hot wheels are in their tub and it's on the shelf" "You can have a candy bar (granola bar) when you get all the trucks parked on the shelf". By saying yes you are letting him know he is going to get something when he's done.

By breaking up a task it's not so overwhelming. Even cleaning house for me can be like this. I often just see clutter and need to find a way to organize my cleaning and how I am going to get it done. So I do one project at a time. straighten one counter top at a time. I wipe it off and put everything away. Then I move on to the next area. I think it makes tasks easier for kids when you break it down to the smallest parts.

Have you tried time out? Both my kids HATE it, and it works very well for that reason. Just make sure you do it consistently and correctly.

Does he need to know what's next all the time? Does he do better with structure?

I recently did a study on "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen" and there are a lot of tips in there that work for our explosively emotional child.

Other things to consider looking into are things like does he eat well/healthy, does he sleep well, does he have problems like snoring (which can cause ADHD-like symptoms), does he have any food allergies (red dye?) and could he benefit from things like a martial arts or pee wee football program as a positive outlet for his aggression?

When my DD says that we hurt her feelings by calling her on her behavior, I tell her she hurt mine by being disobedient. She may be tired, hungry, etc. but she does not get a pass to scream and yell and stomp her feet. She needs to use her words. If she needs to vent, she can go to her room til she is ready to use words.

FWIW, my friend's DD is also 4 and we have both started to see attitude problems in our kids - two girls, raised by different parents with different households and expectations who are similarly behaved. So some of it may simply be that he is 4. It is developmental and you need to guide him through it instead of doubting your own value as his parents.

I would not cancel the party, but I would make it clear that this behavior will not be tolerated and he needs to work on his behavior. I don't know what you planned, but if you planned for something like a big event, maybe something smaller would be more suitable for his needs. Not every party needs a bounce house.

I think you just have to find what his "currency" is and be consistent about him losing it each and every time he misbehaves. Make a list of what is not allowed and what he should do instead, and post it where he can see it. He may not be able to read yet but sometimes it still helps reinforce what the rules are and what happens when you break them. State your expectations ahead of time and what will happen if he doesn't comply. Keep the emotions out of it and don't over-explain - just keep it simple: "When you do X, the consequence is Y" and don't get caught up in arguing with him when he says he hates you, etc. When my daughter starts to argue and talking back too much and it begins to escalate, she is sent to her room for a time-out away from us - door shut, no interaction, etc. She is told to cool off and she can come out when she can be nice again.

The thing I've learned is that some kids are just really strong-willed and it takes a lot more from us to keep things consistent and enforce boundaries. It's just the personality they are born with but that doesn't mean they can't be expected to show respect and follow the rules. Two books that really helped me have been "Setting Limits With Your Strong-Willed Child" by Robert Mackenzie (with understanding her temperment and mind-set) and "1-2-3 Magic!" (for discipline and enforcing consequences and expecting compliance). With my daughter, I need to also tell her what to expect and what I expect ahead of time so there's less arguing and melt-downs. When I say it is time to leave the pool, it is time to leave - if you argue with me about it, we will not be going back for a very long time. When we go to the zoo, we are not buying any toys or other junk, and we are not doing any face-painting - so don't even ask. If you start to whine and pester me about it, we will leave right there and then and go home. I have also learned with my daughter that a lot of her arguing is her just wanting to be heard - and I get that, but it doesn't mean she's going to get her way or I am going to say yes.

I think cancelling the birthday party would be too much. But with my daughter I have taken away TV/computer games for 3 days at a time when she's going through a run of bad behavior, and I have cancelled outings like a trip to the zoo or a movie because she is acting up that morning.

Ditto to everyone on the suggestion of karate.

If you haven't read it yet, Parenting with Love and Logic might also be a good fit for you.

In terms of a discipline method, I think it's important to think not only in terms of what method will work for HIM but also what method will work for you. Ideally, you need something you can use every single time, immediately, and very calmly -- sounds like you need to model NOT acting out of anger for this little guy. With my son, putting his toys in time-out worked really well because it gave him a positive way to be in control. If he acted out, the toys were spirited away. If he shaped it up, back came the toys -- so he had the control he wanted, but he controlled the situation by being a good kid.

And, from everything you describe, he sounds like a normal kid. Just on the strong-willed edge of normal. I personally wouldn't go the therapy route just yet, but try considering the following: Could he need an extra hour or so of sleep at night? Could he have a sensitivity to a food additive? Try an all-natural, low-sugar diet. Could he just be a high-energy kid who needs more time and space to run around? Could he be overstimulated? Try taking away TV and videogames -- not as punishment, as possible treatment/cure.

And, finally, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a small family. Sounds like he has wonderful, loving, devoted parents. It probably wouldn't hurt to give him some external structure in terms of karate, athletics, etc., but think of that as an add-on, not as filling a hole in his life. Whatever challenges he's giving you, he sounds like a lucky kid.

Get the book 1-2-3 Magic. It's an easy read, an easy technique and basically just reminds you how to discipline your child. It works in our house, and has for quite a while.

When discipline does not work at all, as in, the behavior doesn't change and the child turns things around on you, talks back, yells back, and makes excuses: Then it's not a deterrent and it isn't firm enough.

Yes, he needs positive influences and a balanced happy home and lots of love, but his behavior is totally normal for five (I have a five-year-old son) and if all you've used has been listed here (time outs and privilege removal) my son wouldn't be behaving well either. My son is very spirited and he knows that past a warning for outright defiance or very bad conduct his MILD consequence like privilege removal etc will FOLLOW a spanking and hard chore EVERY TIME. Therefore I hardly ever have to do it. He hasn't been spanked or disciplined at all in almost a year, and he does not act disrespectfully or talk back etc. It's not an option for him.

Time-ous for very spirited kids are not only totally ineffective over time, but they fuel anger and allow them to escalate tempers etc. It's almost humiliating to sit a spirited child somewhere and ask them to "pretend" they're having a serious consequence. Sitting somewhere comfortably and quietly-or freaking out at will in a nice bedroom- is not a serious consequence and certainly would never have deterred me from anything. If they work for some, great, but if they don't they don't. Sometimes it seems like more of a way for parents to opt out of discipline by leaving kids alone in time-out to freak out and tantrum as long as they want.

The book Back to Basics Discipline is very good about when to use time-outs and how to be much more positive in general and firm and effective when necessary. Most of the boys this age (unless very mild-mannered by genetics) that I know behave badly if time-outs and privilege removals are the only consequences, or if firmer consequences are sporadic and randomly or angrily doled, You need to be calm, confident, firm and consistent with EFFECTIVE consequences after ONE warning and then the warning will suffice. Five is getting to be the very last chance to get a jump on this so don't delay.

If you are against spanking or only want to use it for very rare things, then find something else FIRM you are willing to do every time and use that. You'll know if it's effective if his behavior improves. You may have to get more drastic with the time-outs and removals by grounding and making him earn back privileges with hard work instead, but honestly, at this age, the more immediate and less drawn-out the better. Those are more effective for older kids. Good luck!

Maybe try less 'discipline' and more communication. You state that he yells back at you - ie - you were yelling first. Kids do what we do, rather than what we say. If you want him to stop yelling - then don't yell.

Him stating that he hates you is him trying out his words and expressing his emotions. He really does 'hate' you in the way 5 year olds hate - being really mad for about 93 seconds. I would try giving him more accurate words - 'I see you are really angry that we can't whatever it is right now'. It also can help for you to discuss (when he is calm) how he would feel if someone told him they hated him. He likely has not considered that much. I would never give a 'consequence' for using words to express his feelings. You want him to do this - you just want him to do this in a way that is not hurtful and that takes learning.

As for being tired - it is good he can recognize when he is tired. All kids (and most adults) are more fragile when they are tired (or hungry). It is not an excuse but something to work on. Make sure he gets more sleep if he needs it and don't schedule challenging things when you know he will be tired. I also recommend taking a look at Laura Markham's website 'ahaparenting.com' - it is great. I personally found Love and Logic to be insulting to children and not at all in line with my parenting goals.

Overall - he sounds like a normal kid to me.

ETA - and everything Gamma G says.

There are two things that I changed with my son when his behavior/attitude started changing for the worse (around 4yo) - both of them from Noel Janis-Norton and her Calmer Parenting tips.

1.) Descriptive praise as much as possible. Every second I saw him doing the correct behavior, immediate recognition (something simple). Example: he would rudely interrupt (even after months of not doing it), and instead of letting him interrupt when he was rude, I would wait (sometimes forever!) for him to act properly and as soon as he did, I reacted with "thank you so much for properly excusing yourself (or whatever), what do you need?". The old me would let him interrupt and say "please don't interrupt but what do you want?", which didn't teach him anything and gave him what he wanted.

2.) Earning things instead of taking them away. The two things he wanted the most during these changes were time to play Wii or play on my phone. So we got a star chart and if he accomplished 5 things (3 of them were freebies for the first two weeks, like brushes teeth), he earned what he wanted. As his behaviors improved and other things perked up that needed improving (like whining), the items on the chart would change. Here is a good article about the process: http://national.macaronikid.com/article/413854/when-conse....

As far as the material gifts, I've learned over the years that giving kids too many things isn't always bad. I've known uber rich kids who had everything they needed/wanted, but were incredibly humble and generous. I know relatives who don't have much and the kids have 30yo hand-me-downs in their rooms, but the kids act incredibly rude/spoiled and think nothing of destroying others' property. Just another perspective that may or may not help you process all of the replies. Good luck!

Maybe try less "discipline" and more ignoring. Then really increase attention and rewards for positive behavior.

Persistance and being constant is the main key in my opinion. Some child can be more chanllenging that others.. I think it's more a phase in the child than a problem.. Never give up :)

It does sound "normal" - I have a pretty strong willed one too. She's 6 1/2 now. I learned that with her - and every kid is different - that her behavior was often a sign she wanted something she wasn't getting. In her case structure, independence and more time with us. We also spent a bit of time talking (after the meldowns or fits) about how she felt and why and just acknowledging her frustrations. I found punishments didn't work very well - consequences in the moment were better - leaving the store, turning of the TV... and the hardest of all was and still is - keeping my cool. Best of luck :)