Should We Stay Together?

What's the issue behind this issue? How long have you guys been together? How was the relationship prior to the last 2 years?

wow, it sounds just like my problem, except divorce would be brutal for me, because i have no family around for help. I wish things would change for the better, but it seems impossible right now

Try therapy before anything else but only if you're both willing to give it a shot. It sounds hard. I wish you the best luck either way. Marriage is hard and everyone goes through periods with a desire to be seperate.

if you want love, it is possible to find it back in your own home. go back to what attracted you in your husband: that is still there. do not say: he has changed. just go back in your mind what made you go for him in the first place. remember YOU WILL FIND WHAT YOU FOCUS ON and What YOU focus on , YOU will find. it depends on you what you want to find.
i know it is possible to do that, i see it all around me. YOU decide.
1. stop blaming him
2. put your self in charge of your thoughts and say: i will only find good things in him
3. decide to make it work and PUT YOUR SELF IN CHARGE OF IT, instead of saying: he does nothing, WHY SHOULD I DO EVERY THING TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE
4. whatever you do, do it BECAUSE YOU WANT TO DO IT
5 start today and you will see how things will change for you

Hi, of course my opinion only but I think that if it's at all salvagable it is better to stay together. Does he know how you feel and does he care? You have two little kids which can be draining, physically and emotionally and probably not leave a lot of time or desire for intimacy on both your parts. I would suggest that unless he's a cold mean person, but rather someone who really does care about you, you guys take time for yourselves together. Whether it's once a week that you have date night, or planning romantic get togethers in your own bedroom after the kids go to sleep. We all want to feel loved and desired, and I bet your husband does to. If there's something more deeply negative going on maybe a marriage counsellor might be helpful.

Remember, going out and finding someone new who will "love" you is not as easy as it sounds and four five years down the road you end up in the same passionless existence, with someone who isn't as dedicated to your kids!

What is straining the relationship? Why did you start sleep separately - a fight (did someone cheat, lie, etc?), comfort (he likes a firm matress, you like soft?)?

My suggestion...tell him you love him, even if right now it's just because he's a good dad, and ask him if you can start sleeping in the same room again. If he's amicable - give it a week or two and try making a move. Kiss him, hug him, see what happens. Try to make this work. If you already have a good man in your life that you once loved, do everything in your power to get it back - for you, for the kids, and for him. Letting him go is not he answer to having love in your life again. I am not a single mom but I can only imagine that the average single mom of two toddlers who is struggling financially doesn't have much time to look for love. If you can find it in yourself to love him again - try...really hard...

Go to the bookstore and pick up a book called "Give and Take". I'll get the author's name for you if you want it.

First of all, I'm really sorry to hear this. Secondly, I understand. Me and my boyfriend have a 9 month old and sometimes it doesn't even seem like we love each other anymore. Nobody said having kids was easy and often times (even when they are older) it puts a lot of strain on a relationship. Secondly, everyone i've talked to says marriage is the hardest thing a person can go through because there are times when you are miserable and you can't stand the other person. My Aunt said she turned to God and he helped her through it, if that's your thing, you could try that. The only thing I can tell you is try marriage counseling. If that doesn't work, then I wouldn't stay together any longer. Like you said, your children will sense both of their parent's unhappiness and that will affect them emotionally just as much as a divorce. Divorce can adversly affect your children though, so think of this as a last resort when all else has failed. If divorce does come about, make sure it is equally desired by both parties, so as there are no harsh feelings and no trash talking about the other person to the children, and make sure the kids see their father enough. (Spoken from a child of divorced parents.)

I saw that someone previously mentioned counseling. I recommend giving it a shot, if you haven't already. There can be healing and you CAN find LOVE again... it appears you had it before, because it does seem you still care about him.

If you need help finding a counselor, there are online resources, or check with a local church.

PLEASE try counseling, for the sake of your children. What better way for them to learn about love and family than to see it in their own home? (you alluded to that as well).

That said, I know there are times when it just won't work... BUT it seems you really want to make it work. If that is true... counseling is a must... and give it time to work on both of you.

pp's had good suggestions, too.

HTH

I'm sorry you are in the position to have to make this decision. Honestly, only you know what to do. But don't stay together just for the kids. I'm a child of divorce (parents divorced when I was 9) and if they had stayed together our home would have been a stressful one. And my parents never fought in front of us, were not abusive to each other etc but when two people aren't in love you can feel it as a child. I was sad for a while but then was excited to be able to do special things with each of them. As long as you don't put the kids in the middle or talk badly about the other parent, the kids will adjust. Good luck.

Hi,
initially i wasn't going to answer this question because its such a personal situation and no one knows the details like you do so only you and your spouse can decide what's right for you. but then i read all the other responses and therapy was recommended on almost all of them. therapy is great, and i'm sure it helps lots of people, even my own parents went through therapy awhile back. that being said, i know my husband would never go to therapy. that's just his mentality, the thought of sharing his feelings and "secrets" with me is hard enough but with a stranger its unthinkable. so i'll give you some advice that i got when i was having trouble. date night. i know it sounds too simple and almost idiotic to suggest but do it, its much harder than it sounds. you have to take initiative, hire a baby sitter, have her come a few hours early so you can go get your hair/nails done and put something nice on, maybe stop by a makeup counter for a free makeover. when you know you look nice you will feel more in control and more desirable and that will translate over without you having to say anything. now the first few times will be work, it will be strange sitting across from the man you live with and not have anything to say to one another. like i said, it'll take work it took us a month of "dates" before we really started to reconnect but now we try to do a date night at least once a month. it helped us a lot, i hope it will help you as well.
best of luck

A continued marriage without love is far more damaging not only to you but your sons. If you and your husband have the best interest in your sons's well being then you have the answer. Divorce is never what we want to do because it is always easier to stay in something that we know. Your husband will forever be the boys father as you will forever be their mother - Yet remember that when you are happy and at peace you are truly a better mother as he will be a better father. - We all have one life to live - You are more than just a mother, you are a woman, you are a human being entitled to happiness. I have three children who experienced the ups and lows of divorce, they survived, are well adjusted and adapted to having the best of their parents a real persons. I hope this help with your heavy heart.

D. D

Hi A.- If you dont see things ever getting better with your marriage, its much easier to seperate when the kids are young. If you are not happy how could you raise happy children. I made the choice to leave when my daughter was 2...she is now 15. For as long as she can remember she had two happy parents who loved her. She didnt have to go thru growing up and having two parents that fought all the time or were living in unhealthy situation. It took her father and I a year or so, but eventually we became friends again for our daughter sake...after all he was a good Dad it just didnt work out between us. And im glad that we didnt wait untill she was in her teens with all of the bad influences that are out there for teenagers. Good Luck-T.

I think you still love your husband and he still loves you otherwise one of you will be left already, so please try to move back to you room and have a good conversation to your husband and think about what both of you can do to safe your marriage because no one is going to love your children like Mom and Dad and just think start all over again will be hard for both of you, so please do it for the nice family you have.

Good Luck

M. V.

Hi-

Therapy sounds like a good idea. If that doesn't work and you decide to split, then I would suggest a mediated divorce. Essentially its getting one lawyer for the both of you and you decide together who gets what. Obviously this will only work if you and your spouse are in a good place. I did it w/ my ex and it was as painless as a divorce could be. We didn't have a public fight w/ dirty lawyers trying get everything. We decided how to break up our fincances and our home. It is also much less expensive as you split the cost of one lawyer instead of having to pay 2 of them. Try therapy 1st. It will make you both feel better that you tried everything. Best of luck to you both.

Hi A.: Raising two young children is often draining and leaves little time for building affection and romance. If both of you remember the things you liked about each other in the beginning of your relationship and try to make time to have fun together again, you will save your marriage. It sounds like your children are the center of your life and both of yu are providing them with the nurturing they need. Maybe you need to nurture each other again and regain your affection. Good luck, M. P.

The best thing you can do for your children is to be happy...imagine the guilt they would feel later knowing you were unhappy for them for 10, 20 years...a study recently came out that most children would prefer their parents get a divorce than stay together and fight...marriage is hard enough when you want to be in it, I couldn't imagine how hard it would be not wanting to be there...you sound like you're done...if you want to try...go to marriage counsling...otherwise get out and get on with it...it won't be easy whatever you do but look at it this way the boys are young enough that they won't really remember to many of the details....my sister and her husband just divoreced after an almost 10 year marriage and they have 2 little girls 4 and 6 and the girls are happy and enjoy having 2 homes and 2 rooms...if you both are as passionate about your childrens happiness it doesn't have to get ugly....goodluck.

Does your husband want a divorce? It's sounds like you live together very calmly. Maybe you could try to work out as many of the divorce details together and than finish it off legally, that would save a lot of money and grief. When I was a teacher I had a student whose parents divorced amicably and they actually lived on the same block. It worked out very nicely but the parents were definitely friends. Something that might help you decide - because I think you are already taking this into consideration - is this the kind of relationship you want your sons to have with their future partner? This will be what they know and will help shape their future choices. It sounds like you and your husband respect each other very much and that's huge for your boys. I think if you do what's best for yourself in the end it will be what's best for them. You'll be a great role model.

Dear A.,

Sorry for your problems - you have my empathy and sympathy. Been there too. Have you discussed this with a counselor or therapist? if you have not, it maybe a good place to start to determine whether the problem can be resolved and get you two back on track. Good luck!

It's great that you and your husband agree not to disagree in front of the children. Why? not try to go away with your husband, without the children. I have gone through both divorce and separation and what I realize now is had I tried to work on my marriage I mean really work on my marriage my children's father wouldn't be living 13 states away from my children. Now remarried my husband now and my children don't get along at all, and I have to try really hard to keep the peace. Sometimes you trade in one heart ache for another. Try hard to stay with your husband.

ok...let me give you some advice from the other end. I was a product of this type of environment. My parents NEVER slept in the same room, never showed affect and honestly barely communicated without tension or fighting. It was tough growing up like that. When I was 12 I asked them to get a divorce. Seriously! As an adult I had a difficult time with my own relationships. I was finally lucky enough to meet someone who was willing and able to grin and bare it with me until I leared how to be a wife, a partner and give and receive love.....none of which I leared at home. Try your best to keep communication open....try counseling but if nothing is working I would suggest a divorce.

Best of luck 2 u!

This is an issue where you can't think about the kids. If you guys are over you are over and it will be happier and healthier for everyone to deal with it now rather than later. You need to split apart with separate houses and work on getting yourself into a healthy realtionship before your kids forget what one is. I say this dealing with a mother who was married to my father for 21 years, honestly about 19 years too long. It was horrible groing up with parents who obviously did not love eachother. I am 23 years old now and I honestly can't say I ever remember a night in my whole life where I saw them sleep in the same bed, hug, kiss, anything. My mom stayed with him "for the kids."

This would only be the case if you two are truly done though, have you tried any type of counseling or anything? I don't know if it is worth the work but help is out there.

I wish you the best, must be tough, :(.

I understand that you want love in your life and I think that we all deserve that. I personally wouldn't stay together for the kids if thats what you are doing. My parents divorced and it was rough and messy but they too had stopped talking and being affectionate towards one another for several years before my dad finally moved out. I can say that as a child that situation was just as painful as it was going through the divorce. I think that children will model their relationships after their parent's, so be sure to show them one filled with love and affection not coldness and distance.
With that said- I believe that divorce should be the last thing any couple should do. You should really try to search yourself and find out what is keeping you and your husband so distant from one another. Talk to him and see what his assessment of the situation is and then see if you can spend some alone time together even if it is only to fight out whatever is making you to so distant. Try to work it out first before you jump for divorce.

Oh man, I understand what you're saying, and totally feel for you!
As much as I hate to say this, you have to think of what's best for your kids. Us mothers have it the worst--we love our kids on the one hand, and want to do everything right for them. But that means sometimes sacrificing our own needs in the process.
You have to think what's best for them, and seeing an unloving marriage, with no affection, no connection between you and your husband will effect them in the long run--it has to!
I was a kindergarten teacher before having my son, and I could see the differences in kids who came from an intact family, and one's that didn't. That's not to say kids from a divorced family were 'bad', not at all! Just ones that came from a family where they saw a lot of love--coming from one parent, 2 parents, or 2 parents at different times cause they were divorced.
That's my opinion.
Hope it helped any, and good luck.

Dear A.,
Have you been able to sit down with your husband after the kids are asleep and really talk about these issues? Be honest to your husband about where you are at, and urge him to do the same. Keep in mind what you want, ie. a marriage where both people are actively working to keep the relationship growing, a co-parenting relationship, whatever...
It will not be an easy conversation, but it wounds like it really needs to happen, together.

I am battling the same demons and it hasn't been 2 years for us. I have two little ones 3 and 19 months (girls) and then I have two step-children 12 and 10 (girl and boy) from his first marriage. They live with us full time. My 12 year old step daughter has made living here very hard and my husband is no help. It is very difficult to shuffle around two older kids with two little ones and my husband is always trying to add new activities. I have spoken to him more than once about pulling his weight but it just doesn't work. In the past 6 months things have slowly worsened. He is very selfish and she follows suit. Don't get me wrong - I am sure there are things about me that drive him crazy, but the only complaint I get is that he does not get "it" enough. Anyway - I am seriously contemplating the D word myself. I have spoken to therapists and family members. Their advice is pretty much - be happy. Life is too short - the kids are young enough and will adjust. My parents are married 45 years this September and I am sure they wanted the same for me - but you don't always get the hand you want in life. I am probably going to move on and let my girls see me in a loving relationship. I wouldn't want them to think this is what marriage is. As for your boys - I would think in their older years they would look back and be happy that their mom was happy. It's a tough decision - but if you aren't happy - they know it.....I also watch Dr. Phil alot - he is the best. Hope this makes you feel not so alone.....good luck to you in whatever your choice!!!!

All relationships have good and bad but if got to the point you were not in the same room there is a big problem. I can't tell you what to do, but the question is do we want to work on this. There is counseling and I have heard about the weekend aways with counselors to help work on it. If you do decide to move on, a divorce it's the end of the world and hopefully their father will choose to still be in their lives. There are nice divorces and nasty ones. Have you and your husband ever mentioned divorce? Maybe the mention of it will open his eyes to what is going on and he will try to work on the marrage.

Good Luck and keep us posted

some say its better for the kids to have both parents. Bull.. I strongly feel its emotionally better for them to have happy parents. And you deserve a life.

Oh gosh, how I feel your pain. I just started divorce proceedings against my husband, and we have an almost 2-year-old son (he will be 2 in March). All I can say is, as you've already seen, children are more perceptive than people give them credit for. It is better to be happy and apart than to be together and miserable. You said your husband and you both have intense love and passion for your children -- you have to be adults about the divorce and keep their needs first. It will be hard, and there will be issues to address as they get older, but I think it's better to do this now when they are younger than to live a lie and do it later, when they will resent it more. As long as they continue to get love and attention from you both, no matter what the living situation after the divorce, then they should be o.k.

I am in the same boat as you with divorce being ugly and financially draining, but I was literally losing my mind, and it was unhealthy for my son to see me so desperately unhappy.

Look, I'm just entering these waters for the first time too (never thought this would be me, but it is...), but I already feel better not living at home with him anymore. Divorces are never easy, it has already gotten unpleasant, but after the smoke clears, things will actually be better, I TRULY believe that.

Good luck, I hope for the best for you and your family. I don't know how these things work, I am relatively new to Mammasource, but if you want to contact me you are welcome to do so, if you can figure out how to do it!

D. M

I was in the same situation as you were, only my 4 and 6 year olds thought it was "normal" for mommy and daddy to sleep in separate bedrooms. Don't worry about that, you can always correct their misconceptions at a later date (my kids are 9 and 11 now and I spoke to them about it about a year ago). As far as divorce goes, if it is do-able, then I would suggest it (assuming counseling does not work). Your kids would be happier in the long run with a happier mother. I feel that my kids were. Of course, it is difficult during the process, but in the end all turned out well, and in fact, better. So I feel I made the right decision to divorce after agonizing over the decision forever.

Dear A. D.,
As I read your story, I could feel your pain, your fears, but most of all your love for your family. It would be so great if we could just erase those experiences in our lives that we feel we have no solution for, but then we would loose that element of balance in our lives.
So what is my suggestion? When you've done all that you can do and still can't see your way clear...pray...prayer changes things...God the creator of all living things has all wisdom, Knowledge, and understanding when it comes to us and wants to help us succeed in all that we do in this life. He is compassionate, empathetic, and full of love.
A., it is God who created family and is always excited when given the chance to teach us a more excellent way to co-habitat as a family. When you sincerely reach out to him...he will lovingly respond to you... with God on your side, you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain
A LITTLE ABOUT ME:
I am 56yrs old, a single parent of 2 precious daughters, grandmother of 2 and a witness that God can do anything but fail.

I totally understand. My husband and I have had problems ourselves for a while now but there has always been caring and civility between us. Throw in a sister-in-law whom I don't like but stays with us 2 days out of the week and you have serious problems. I've come to the conclusion that staying together for the sake of children when the relationship is not healthy is not a good solution. And although single parenthood does not scare me (I am confident that I would be a competent single parent), I feel that it is sad for a child to grow up missing a parent. Before giving up on "love" try alternate solutions. Learn better communication skills through a third party (I mean a counselor or therapist). Or another solution is spending extra money to hire a reliable sitter (or family member) for a weekend each month just to get away. Drive up to the Poconos and spend a day or two days with no kids and no housework and no responsibility except to give and to receive relaxing pleasure. Leave the anger and the sullen looks at home and just enjoy being. I am trying really hard to keep my marriage from falling apart. But I also know that it takes two people to make it work. I hope that my efforts won't be one-sided. Good luck to you!

Let me encourage you to go for counseling and do whatever it takes to stay together. Somethings are just worth fighting for and your marriage is one of those things! The greatest way that you can demonstrate love to your children is by working on your marriage ... it is the greatest gift that you will ever, ever give to them. Contrary to popular opinion ... it is worth it to stay together for the sake of the kids. Love is a choice ... not a feeling. You and you husband need to choose to love as mature adults.

I have a nephew whose parents were divorced when he was three years old. If there ever were a "perfect" divorce ... this was it. His biological dad and his step-dad coached his soccer team together ... both dads were at family functions and had dinner together often. When Adam was 23 years old ... in graduate school ...he was in the car with me and started to cry. He said, "Aunt C. ... why wasn't I enough? Why wasn't I enough to keep them together? Most people don't know it but I have cried myself to sleep nearly every night of my life because my parents were divorced."

All marriages go through dry spells... trust me ... I have been married for 31 years. You can choose to keep your head and your heart in it! I am rooting for you!

Hi A.:

I totally understand and empathize. I was in a similar situation years ago and have remarried since. Believe me, the grass isn't always greener on the other side! So, onto my second marriage: we have two children together and one from my first marriage. This one is hard too, but in a different way...No matter what and I don't care what anyone says, there are always issues. Marriage is like tending to a garden, it needs love, water, sunlight for it to grow. If it's neglected, it will die. First, I suggest determining what the problem is...if the problem is removed, would you still love that person? Could you see yourself without that person for the rest of your life? Another point...if you are fighting and hate your partner, hate is similar to love. The strong emotion is because you are hurt and truly love that person. If you don't hate or are feeling blase about it, then that is a different story. I would love to continue to talk if you want to...I have loads of experience, not sure if it's all good stuff, but it is experience. J., mother of 3 girls and a working Professional. B.S. in Human Services!

Obviously it is a very personal decision but one that should be made with not only the children's, but also your best interests in mind. I certainly can't tell you what you should do but I can share my experience with you. I have 10 y/o twins and Feb. 1st will be 5 years since we moved out, the divorce was final 7 months later. I tried counseling (for the kids sake), we tried counseling (as a last resort when I first used the "d" word)and it didn't help, it only confirmed my decision. The final straw was when my then 4 1/2 year old son made a comment to me (in front of my mother) about daddy yelling at me all the time. I quickly realized that my kids were observing behavior that I did NOT want them to think was normal. Lack of affection and love, fighting, being talked down to were all things that I was not willing to let my kids grow up seeing on a daily basis. It was not an easy decision but one that I knew was right. It is now almost 5 years later and my kids are very close to both of us. They see their father often and talk to him on days that don't see him. He may not have been a good husband (at least not for me) be he is a good father and I am glad that they are close to him. I think that all of us (including my ex) are in a much better place with us being separate than when we were together. Before I made my final decision I made a "pros and cons" list for staying married. The cons side of the chart was lengthy. The pros only had 3 items on it (tucking my kids in every night, staying in my house and never having to date again). I realized that the "pros" were only about me and the cons easily won out, I don't regret it for a minute. I don't take divorce lightly, I meant "til death do us part" when I said it, but divorce is not the end of the world. If you and your husband handle it civilly (especially in front of the kids) everyone will be fine and possibly even better than if you stay together for "the kids sake".
Good luck!!
R. M.

Hi A.,

I can only give you my own personal experience, after being betrayed, I flip flopped over the idea of divorce. I kept thinking we could work it out, a little space and some time to heal wounds would benifit us.

When I started to discuss it with my sister, I found myself defending his actions. Blaming myself because I was ill....

Going through divorce is like facing a million lost hopes and dreams while trying to make sence of chaos. As I say this, it pains me to have had to go through it. But it was well worth it! I am happy now and you can see my smile from a block away!

I did alot of thinking, weighing the option of sticking it out. Wondering if it is worth saving. For me after a short second chance (we lasted a week) I came to the clarity that I deserved better and divorce was my only choice.

Their is no easy answer, right now you need to sit down with a friend and ask her just to listen. Talk all of it out. Then when your done if you need her opinion ask it, if not, then you have already come to your decision. You really just need someone to listen not give you an answer.

If you choose divorce, make sure you make time for you and truly heal yourself. For a while I thought I was fine, until my sister asked me something simple, like "are their clouds in the sky", and I blew up. Afterward, I felt relief. By the way, she caught on quickly and understood it had nothing to do with her.... allowing me to just scream and cry it out.

It isn't easy, but the rewards of starting over, and finding happiness not only benefits you, but your children deserve for you and them to be happy.

GOOD LUCK, I HOPE EVERYTHING WORKS OUT!!

Jessi

A., the answer is simple. Counseling. Something made you both fall in love once and you need to find that again. A marriage counselor can help.

I wish your family love and happiness always.

A.

have you been to therapist yet? you should find out the root of the problem. is it fixable? you liked each other enough to reproduce. is he focused on work? is he 'cheating'? does he think you're not doing your part? is it that madonna complex?
how much of the problem is your responsiblity? how much is his?
did you both or either of you go into the marriage with unreasonable expectations? my observation has been that if you don't figure out what these issues are now, and you remarry, they will come up again in your next relationship.
bottom line: do you care enough to do the work necessary to make your marriage work? marriage is work.

Have you thought of just legally separating? You should be living in separate houses. For you kids to see you like this is worse than for you guys to separate. See how that works for a while, you may not want to divorce after some time apart. Good luck with everything!

I was in the same situation a little over two years ago, my daughter was five and i was with her father for ten years we never got married i called it off because we fought alot but i never had it in me to give up on my family. So we stayed together things were fine for a while but then like you said we were just like roomamtes and we stayed togetehr for my daughter but in the end we started fighting alot more and when i would cry my four year old would console me thats when i knew it was time to end it. She was young enough for the adjustment it was very hard at first took alot of patience and stabliity to get her use to it but she knew that her daddy would always be there because she talks to him everyday she doesnt go to bed without saying goodnight to him and she spends every weekend with him so fo rus it worked she is a happy seven year old who still has her mom and dad but not in the same house anymore. Good luck in whatever you decide to do

Sorry to be blunt but please try and stay together. Remember why you fell in love. Have sex. Go on dates. (with each other.) Initially sex is awkward, even painful, but it'll get better w practice. Also, dates are embarrassing, you'll have nothing to say to each other etc. Try not to focus on the fact that here you are the 2 of you over a plate of Spag Bol at the local Italian and you have absolutely nothing to say to each other, try instead to FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT!! Its' surprising how that will work for you!
Do try, make and effort, in the long run it's about maintaining a relationship between a man and a woman not just mummy and daddy.
Rediscover the love you used to share by taking little steps.- you don't have to jet off to Paris on a romantic weekend just yet, a trip down the local pub will do. Also do all the things to him you want him to do to you. Start out, empower yourself, make it happen don't wait for him to bring you flowers or make the first move, embrace your situation and the want you have for something better! Making the first move yourself is also about realizing what you want. You need a hug; give him one, you desire a kiss; kiss him, you need to chat about your day; ask him how his was etc.
remember; fake it till you make it, and find the strength in you to be the one who knows what she wants and how to get it. Sorry to sound like such a 'how to' guide but I've done it myself, it helped.
Best of luck
M

sorry to hear that things are so strained in your relationship. Is there a chance that you both would be willing to go to a marriage retreat or to a pastor, or another advisor for help? You deserve a happy life and so do your kids, i recently heard that most kids would rather be of a broken home than live in one( DR.Phil). you have to be honest with what the problems are and if they can be worked through, you both have to want to work through this and look to see where you, not the husband is at fault,he has to examine his own faults, other wise it widens the gap between you. it isn't easy either way. i hope you can get some outside help. i have been married a long time and have had these feelings also, i hope you and your husband can work this out. having young children is stressful, affection goes 2 ways, have you made any effort in that direction,try not to make it a stand off. sometimes feeling overwhelmed is the problem for both of you, and communication is hard, make a move in a non threatening way to ask him why your relationship has changed and if the feelings you had for each other are still there, just hidden. best wishes to you that you both find your way out of this difficult time in your life and that you find the sunshine in each others eyes again.

ok, i have a mixed opinion on this one. 1st i'll tell you everything i've been told (and truly believe...but can't seem to do myself) i've always been told that if there is NO LOVE and all you do is argue, then just end it. it's not in the best interest of your children to stay together when you're not happy together "just for the kids" because they will realize (and u said 1 already noticed w/ the separate bed deal) that things just aren't right. also, how can they be happy when you guys aren't???

now from personal experience. i also have been having problems with my husband, we really were doing just the "friends WITHOUT benefits" deal...BUT sharing a bed for the past couple of years. we're married 4 1/2 yrs, and in the past 2 i'd say we've had sex MAYBE 10 times...i just don't see that being a marriage. there are many other things (like drinking, and drugs...that were ALWAYS away from anywhere my/our child could be) that we've been dealing with...but there were just so many issues i have had with my husband that he didn't seem to be trying until i threatened to leave. i really didn't want to leave. i looked at it in my child's point of view...how when i grew up without my father (because he had died) it was very hard for me, and with the way my husband talked...if we were apart, he wouldn't do anything to try and be there for her...so i stayed. she has gotten an attitude here and there when we're not getting along. but after quite awhile things started to work out...until a friend came into the picture, and i thought about all the other things i couldn't trust him with, and she became just one more thing to fight about (even though i knew deep down that i could trust the both of them...just past experiences screaming don't trust)
well, now things got out of hand, and my MIL (with whom we're living with) has kicked me out, and as of tomorrow i'm going to be out of here and without my husband. he's going to be around every day after work to see our daughter, and will try to weasel his way in to live with us at my grandmother's house until we can get our own place. so for the moment, things are better.
so really...you have to think about what's best for YOU and your children! i really think it's better to not be together if you're not going to be happy because it's going to make the children unhappy BUT i myself couldn't bare to leave just because of my being unhappy because i thought in this case, in my case, that it was in the benefit for my child to stay and just fake being happy. and she's still young, so faking it seems to be working..plus faking it seems to be bringing us together (plus this forced move is also bringing us a little closer)...basically, i would have to say it's all about YOUR situation...you can't really go by what's good for others. just read all the suggestions and see exactly how you feel about everything, and which works better for YOU, DON'T take it personal or to heart anyone saying you HAVE to stay (or go for that matter) just for the kids. you need to really think about what will and won't work for you and your family.
if things were to ever not work out, and there be NO hope for my marriage, i want to live in the same apt. or a 2 family home so we can still be "together" for our kid...but not have to be TOGETHER! i honestly think that it's much easier when the kids are older, and can understand so you can explain things to them. like to your son, explain to him that mommy and daddy love you and your brother, just don't want to be together...or however you could word that to sound better lol...but i think while a 4 yr old is smart enough to kind of understand...it's not like telling something like that to a 10 yr old (or whatever age) who can really understand that mom and dad will always be there, but just not together. only time will tell for me...as for you, i wish you THE BEST of luck in this decision. i understand how hard it is to figure out what to do when you have to think of your children AND all the other people around you telling you what's right and what's wrong. good luck, everything will work out in time.

Its easier to split up before the kids start school. You have to ask yourself - would I be a better parent without the stress at home, is this where I want to be in 20 years? By being in this type of relationship you are showing your children that this is "normal" is this what you want for your boys? Remember the days are long but the years are short. Before you know it you wil be 50.

My best advice, before you make any moves to end your marriage, or even seek counseling, is to first read these two books; The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands and The Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage, both by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. They will change your life. Please read them.

About me: Stay at home mom of 22 month old son and 13 year old daughter, divorced and remarried.