Should I Stay or Should I Go

Hi Michele,
I have been in that situation before. Men use drinking as an excuse to deal with things that bother him. No woman should have to suffer. If you have family, friends or the community might have a place for you to go. Maybe the town has a shelter for woman, I don't know. For me I left him and I tried to make the most of it. He was apart of my life after the separation which I didn't want. I lost many years dealing with depression because of it. Maybe you should have a heart to heart with him when he's sober, and ask him why. Tell him what he does to you. Let him know how you feel, its important to have communication and maybe things will change between the two of you. Some men don't know how to stop, but maybe he can cut back on it. Its worth a shot. Best of luck to you. G.

Good Morning Michele,

BEGIN A QUIET DISCOVERY: If you have not already done so, make copies of all-important documents pertaining to finances. Assess what you have in checking, savings, stocks, etc…any liquid assets.

Prepare a realistic budget of what monthly expenses would be for you and your children if you were still a stay at home mom. Since you have not worked for 10 years and your husband has been able to support you, the judge may award spousal support for a period of time. (A lawyer would need to verify this).

Prepare a resume for when you are READY to go back to work.

If your husband is a drinker and you can prove this, he will probably only be awarded supervised visits. Start keeping a record of how many times he’s drunk and abusive. (Dates and times) Keep receipts of all liquor purchases and credit card receipts from bars and restaurants where he may be drinking.

You should also be allowed to stay in your home and not uproot your children. If you think he will not leave willingly or you prefer to move elsewhere, make sure you have enough money to live on for 3 to 6 months.

When you have a plan in place but you still feel that counseling would help save your marriage and family, give your husband the choice of getting help or getting out. If he doesn’t make the right decision, MAKE YOUR MOVE WITHOUT DELAY and don't look back! You deserve to live in peace and have a clam home for your children.

I know what a lump you must have in your stomach…living without love and companionship can be the loneliest place in the world. You and your family will be in my prayers.

Blessings…

Hi Michele,
I'm your age, and my ex asked for a divorce two years ago and then moved out. I, too, had been a stay at home mom for many years. Reconciliation was not an option in our case, and my advice is based on that assumption, although the mini-intervention sounds like a good idea before giving up completely. I asked for full support while I had a chance to complete retraining (I would have had a hard time getting hired with my outdated skills), in my case for a new career that is more likely to hire women in their 50s. Consultations with attorneys at no or very low cost were very helpful -- I had a primary question I wanted answered at each meeting (such as how does temporary support work, or how would a home-based business be valued). A friend helped me organize questions and came along to take notes. We started out in mediation but ended up in litigation because he was not willing to support my education and wanted me to return to work immediately. We hired a vocational expert who supported my contention that I needed retraining, and each step of the way were able to settle before going before the judge. If mediation can work for you I recommend it, but hold fast to what you know you need or what is right for your children. If he is generally a good dad, I recommend supporting your husband's relationship with the kids, because his bond and commitment to them will encourage him to follow through on financial and ethical obligations to you. If you can afford it, co-parenting counseling can be very helpful, especially in the beginning, in order to minimize trauma for the kids and help you two establish groundrules and boundaries. Good luck in whatever path you choose, and contact me if you want more details about my experience.

i went through a TON of this and more! finally divorced so happy, financialy very rough. am worried my 5yr old son picked up on a lot of his bad habits. would be worried your daughters would find a mate like him growing up in it. good luck, thoughts & prayers for you and the girls. your's & their safety & wellbeing most important.

Michele-

Your post says he's verbally abusive, especially when drinking too much. Is he that way sober or just when drinking? This situation is very close to me as my brother was a great guy sober, but terrible things came out of his mouth when he drank.

In any case, if it is more alcohol related, I'd definitely take him somewhere they don't have alcohol, like McDonald's and tell him the things he says while drinking. Record them if you can get your hands on a recorder. Sometimes they are seriously surprised at their actions. And he needs to be fully aware that you are considering taking the girls and living elsewhere, whatever it means. It helped with my brother, but his alcohol addiction was stronger than he was willing to let go, he lost his wife and two years later he died.

If your husband is, in general, verbally abusive even without drinking then the alcohol is an addiction that feeds his anger. You need to talk to him in a public place, tell him you need him to go to anger management, point out the things he does well as a husband and father, let him know he isn't 100% terrible, but ask why he is so angry that he would want to hurt you. Does he have a particularly stressful job? Ask how you can help him feel better about himself. Offer to go with him to meetings or find help, but he needs to know that without help, he cannot do it, and you cannot stay.

Another thing, this is hard, but evaluate yourself around him. Do you nag or complain to him a lot? How do you treat him, really, do you offer him love and respect? What do you say to other people or your daughters about him? Do you meet his needs? Do you dump on him at the end of the day saying how hard your life is? Or things around the house that he has not done? Or is your home the place he wants to come to, not dread? I DO NOT excuse his behavior, nor would I ever condone it, but sometimes we do need to take a step back and ask how we can improve ourselves in the situation, especially with children.

I pray you and he get the help you both need,

D.

Hey Michele,

Let me ask you one question . . . do you want someone to talk that way to you daughters? If the answer is no then you should go. YOu need to stand up for yourself and your girls. It is never okay for a man to talk that way to a women (drinking or no drinking) and if your girls grow up seeing it they are going to think that is part of life.

Check out "next Door" it is a program that help verbal/physically abused women get back on their feet. I beleive that have apartments and all sort of assistance.

Michele,
I understand your fears and your concerns. If you leave how could you do it alone!? I know those and I have asked myself time and time again if now is the time. I don't have many answers, I can't even answer my own questions. But what I did do was i started an at home business. I work from home with our 2 small kids and a lot of women on my our team are single stay at home moms. I know that this can be done, I wish you the best of luck and I pray for your strength.

C.
wwwAtHome4MyGirls.com

Take your kids and leave. Don't worry about all of the details, you will be provided for. You may not have the lifestyle you are accustomed to, but you will have peace of mind which is far greater. And, your kids will be able to begin their healing process from an alcoholic father. If you need to start stashing money away secretly so you can save enough to get out on your own, do that. Do that, and know that the time to leave is approaching. Your kids will be there with you, and if he gets a wake up call out of it, great. If not, you keep moving on.
Good luck.

Nobody should stay in a verbally or physically or mentally abusive situation. Talk to an attorney as soon as you can. They can answer the bonus question. I think you would still be entitled to it but I'm not an attorney and rules change all the time. Waszinsky attorney at law dowtown (don't know if I spelled it correctly) are suppose to be the best if they are still around. (my divorce was 10 years ago from my first husband)

Good luck and TALK TO AN ATTORNEY...even if you don't know if your going to divorce or not.

Hello Michele,
Like someone else said,I can't tell you if you should stay or go because I don't know everything. The only thing that really pops into my head is what I think about on a regular basis. Your kids will learn what they live and being girls they will learn love means to be verbally abused and not respected.
Best of luck,
C.

Hi Michele,
No one can tell you what is best for you. I've been in a similar position when in my late twenties. My now ex-husband was a violent and abusive alcoholic. He actually had the nerve to stop at a neighborhood bar to drink on his way home from AA meetings, which were required by his employer if he wanted to keep his job. We also tried counseling with a therapist who "specialized" in drinking related problems. Help works only if the alcoholic is ready for it and wants to work for change. One day I realized I had finally had enough and deserved better. It will not be easy, but there are women's crisis centers available now that didn't exist in the mid 1980's. In your heart, you know the answer to your question. At some point you will need to talk to your husband, preferably when he's sober. Is he open to counseling? AA meetings? Making changes in the way he treats you? His responses will most likely guide your final decision. Consult with an attorney to see what you can expect if you divorce (make sure to mention the end of year bonus). The job market is tough right now, but there are jobs out there. Consider checking into working through a temp agency. Many companies hire exclusively through them. Find out where you can go for help, ie crisis centers, Career Closet, your church, close friends, etc. In your shoes, I would do the research before taking action.
I wish you the best of luck. Kow that you are not alone.
L.

Hello Michele: I am a bit confused about what you are really asking. It on one hand sounds like you want help making a decision to stay and be willingly mistreated, or to leave and someone else help take responsibility.
I grew up in a home that had parents that fought and a father that was very abusive and I liked my sister's 12 year old statement to our father after a day of hitting,swearing, and being called many ugly things-- she went in the kitchen and got a fry pan and told him rather firmly that he had to go to sleep sometime and he learned to fear her. I know that all of us got out of his home by the ages of 16. Our mother talked about it, whinned and complained and wanted others to fix it for her until once we were all gone she left when he wasn't home one day.
I have a loved one that got the hell out of the mess she was in and lived in her car with her 2 children rather than be mistreated anylonger. If you go then go-- don't even think that you will get anything from him why would he when he can wait you out to come back. Men like this or women that love then protect them don't have a need to fix it as much as justification and poor me.
You, can get educationalhelp from the great organization of AA for yourself and your children to learn how to solve the common problem drinking-- not job, family,people just alcohol. My friend had me go with her for about a year and I still believe it was the greatest lessons I have learned from.
If you respect your children start preparing for his turning on them, which he will turn on ask anyone that has adrinker in the family.
I have a dear friend that after she made all her decisions contacted me and told me of her plan wasn't expecting any help or for me to fix it but just a haven until she found a way to restart her life. In fact instead of staying with us or anyone else she went to a shelter. I am blessed with several policeofficers in the family and they were willing to step in and help her to move but she didn't have the need for any of the things that were only painful reminders of the life they'd had and just started over.
So if you want to go make a plan, ponder and think about it and about the things your children are learning from what they see and take charge of attacking the demons you hav ein the bottles of your home. Good Luck and be Brave, nana g

You need to see a lawyer and find out all of your options and then confront him with what you are going to do if he does not go into counseling and stop drinking IMMEDIATELY. I have some experience with this from the other side. When my mom died a few years ago I went off the deep end and hid in a bottle for a couple of years. My husband of 15 years did what I am telling you to do. It was a life changing moment for me and I have made some MAJOR life changes for the sake of my marriage and my family. Have some counseling options ready when you have your talk with him and be prepared to do it immediately. I am talking about a mini-intervention. It worked with me. We are now talking about having a baby!! Good luck. T.

Michele,

I can't advise you to stay or go because I don't know the whole situation. But any abusive situation is dangerous whether it be verbal or physical. Be careful. Do what is right for your children. What I can tell you is that you should always go with your gut. If you feel that this marriage is not repairable, then I would consider divorce. If you can wait it out in order to make a plan for you to safely get out of the marriage and on your feet, I would do that. But if you feel unsafe or that your children are in any danger, get out now and forget waiting.

Good luck to you!

Molly

There is a technique that I have heard of and it is along the lines of the books that were reffered to you, however without all the reading.Basically you make a list of all the good and all the bad your husband has ever done, if the bad outways the good then just let it go, but maybe your relationship is beyond this.

Now I also agree when it comes to verbally abusive situations there is no need to stick around, especially if your husband has the unwillingness to change. You have daughters and that is something they do not need to witness as it will impact them in the long run.

As far as getting back into the game of work, people do it all the time...it is scary at first but definitely talk to a lawyer and see what can be done for you...GOOD LUCK!

If you can make the time, I highly recommend these books: The Secret Laws of Attraction by Talane Miedner, How one of you can bring the two of you together and If we are son in love then why are't we happy by Susan Page, and
The Dance of Connection by Harriet(?). These books suggest making an appreciation list of your likes and dislikes about marriage and then evaluate if there is any value in staying or leaving.

The books also suggest making a list of your needs and then see which needs you can meet on your own. Often, we are unhappy because we have unmet needs (mostly emotional) that we expect others to fulfill which they can't as they have their own unmet needs that they may not be able to express and we may not be able to see. The way I see is that you and your husband both need help in recognizing your hurt triggers. It is very hard to make the other spouse realize how his/her behavior hurts others as often they are in as much pain as the person they cause pain to and have no control over their behavior. We all carry a heavy load of hurt feelings and unmet needs from past and project them in our behavior towards others. Regardless, we are all responsible for our own behavior and it is up to us how to handle it. Once we stop trying to change the other person and look at what we can do to make things little better, things do get better. Good luck to you in your quest whatever path you take.

Best,
-Rachna

Michelle
A friend of mine waited 19 years to get out. By then he was verbally abusive to their daughter as well. Some never change or learn. So far as support goes, he may attempt to not pay, and can get away with it until the courts start doing a regular paycheck deduction. Don't count on support for a while. I would make plans to go back to work and get yourself secured to be on your own without his financial help first, or even look into public assistance just in case it gets that bad. If the bonus is included in his w-2's at the end of the year, then he has to include them in the amount of child support he would be paying. What ever you decide, don't let him bully you out of the decision, it is yours to make.
W. M.

Marriage isn't easy, it's always a work in progress.
When alcohol is in the mix it makes it very difficult to get the drinker to "see" how they are messing up the relationship. You would first need to evaluate whether or not you and your husband still love each other. Have you tried "separating" from him for awhile. Maybe go stay with your mom or something and let him see how much his world changes when you and the kids are not in the home? A lot of times that will open the eyes of a husband. If he isn't willing to go to marriage counseling after seeing how serious you are, then it would be time to cut ties. As far as getting public assistance if you leave, you can get cash aid after proving that you are not in the home with him and that he is not giving you any money (as long as you have the girls with you). You should call the Social Services office in your area and ask them what it would take to get you some aid if you were to leave... then you would know where you stand. If you dont file for a legal separation or divorce he can do whatever he wants with the money that is coming in. If you file, he can't liquidate and is obligated to share any moneys with you per court order. Most of us, or I guess 50% so they say, get divorced, it's not an easy road to go down, but living with someone abusive isn't easy either. Once you are out you will be amazed at what you can accomplish. At 47 you are still young enough to be considered hireable. Start applying for jobs and see what happens. You may even get a job for the school district which would enable you to work the same hours your daughters are in school.... they pay pretty well also, even if you are just a teacher's aid or out on yard duty, or the cafeteria even. Watch yourself for low self esteem, as he has probably done that to you, trust me-- you are stronger than you think you are.
Good luck.

Don't wait , just go ! Don't stay for another day!
Sounds like you are both miserable and he's got a big problem. You don't need it. Stay with friends , family, hotel for now until you get on your feet.
You're right ," Enough is enough." Good Luck,K. P

For the legal questions, you should see a family law attorney. As for the personal questions, it seems that you have done all you can to make the situation better, and it has not worked. You should not let your children see you stuck in a miserable marriage. What they see going on between you and your husband is what they will consider "normal." If you don't want your girls to put up with abusive men in their lives, then get out and take them with you. Yes, you will be poorer for a while, but you will be free, and setting a good example for your girls.

I would lay the ground work to leave. Now that the kids are both in school, it would be perfectly reasonable to think about going back to work. However, with the current economy it may not be as easy as that, but you won't know until you try. Set your move out date for after the bonus, so if restarting your career doesn't happen as quickly....

In the mean time, start squirreling away extra money.
Change how you balance your checkbook, always round up to the next dollar amount, so instead of subtracting $11.13 from her running balance, she subtracted $12. A friend bought her husband a motorcycle with the money she saved this way. Another friend left her husband & it was agreed that he would pay her visa bill. It wasn't honest of her, but every time she went to Target, she bought a gift card to save for a rainy day. He never asked to see the receipts....

Once everything is lined up, I would start divorce proceedings. Remember, the divorce won't be finalized until you've both signed the divorce papers. You can always have them drawn up & insist that he gets help. If he doesn't then sign those papers!

Hi Michele,

Just wondering how you are doing and if things have improved for you and your girls?

Blessings......

Good Morning Michele,

BEGIN A QUIET DISCOVERY: If you have not already done so, make copies of all-important documents pertaining to finances. Assess what you have in checking, savings, stocks, etc…any liquid assets.

Prepare a realistic budget of what monthly expenses would be for you and your children if you were still a stay at home mom. Since you have not worked for 10 years and your husband has been able to support you, the judge may award spousal support for a period of time. (A lawyer would need to verify this).

Prepare a resume for when you are READY to go back to work.

If your husband is a drinker and you can prove this, he will probably only be awarded supervised visits. Start keeping a record of how many times he’s drunk and abusive. (Dates and times) Keep receipts of all liquor purchases and credit card receipts from bars and restaurants where he may be drinking.

You should also be allowed to stay in your home and not uproot your children. If you think he will not leave willingly or you prefer to move elsewhere, make sure you have enough money to live on for 3 to 6 months.

When you have a plan in place but you still feel that counseling would help save your marriage and family, give your husband the choice of getting help or getting out. If he doesn’t make the right decision, MAKE YOUR MOVE WITHOUT DELAY and don't look back! You deserve to live in peace and have a clam home for your children.

I know what a lump you must have in your stomach…living without love and companionship can be the loneliest place in the world. You and your family will be in my prayers.

Blessings…