Self Soothing and Crib Training

D. -

We have a 7 and 5 year old children. We co-sleep with our oldest till he asked for a bed at 18 mo. and our daughter until she did around 2 yr. The oldest nursed till about 2.5 yr (not all the time) and the youngest till almost 3 yr. I never planned it this way, but that is how it went. They are bright, caring and fun normal children who have a strong family attachment and seperate well to school, sitters & friends. They have seen Dr. Yaneav Cohen, pediatric dentist and both have great teeth. The teeth issue comes from laying with milk in your mouth for hours not nursing back to sleep. Check out Attachment Parenting by Granju or The Baby Book by Dr. Sears. There are attachment parenting groups in Phx. that will offer support, too. Google for them and good luck! This is the best thing you can do for her right now and it is done all around the world. Trust your instincts.-R.

Hellol!

Personally rather than putting us all through the ferber method as it is commonly presented, I went with the "baby whisperer" advice in "secrets of the baby whisperer" by Tracy Hogg and Melinda Blau. They seem to have a much more intuitive and sensible approach to solving these and other problems.

There will be some crying some time, but have a clock near by for you to look at. What felt like a small eternity to me, turned out to be less than two minutes....

Good luck!
D.

I understand about your concern for her teeth! I have the same paranoia and thats why I tried never to let my child fall asleep nursing or drinking a bottle. But for now I wouldn't stress too much over it, concentrate on trying to get him to go to bed on his own in his own bed. When my son was really little, I would have a bedtime routine (we still do)and part of that was that I would nurse him before I gave him a bath, put lotion on him, got him dressed or read him a story! I realized when he was very young that nursing him to sleep and then placing him in the crib just doesn't work! They always wake back up as soon as you lay them down! Thats why I'd suggest that if you try nursing him at the beginning of your bedtime routine, and if he falls asleep try starting the routine a bit earlier in the evening. I know when my son was that age he did go to bed quite early and he did end up waking early but then he would nurse and lay with me for a bit and fall back asleep so we could all sleep in a bit. My fiance and I were really big promoters of letting him cry it out. I know it may sound harsh but the freedom we know have (we give him kisses and put him in his crib at eight and walk away- no crying no whatever-even if he stays up for another half hour)compared to other people I know with babies close in age with our son. Getting him to put his own self to sleep may not happen right away- start slow, let him cry for five minutes. If he is still crying when time is up go in and pick him up if need be to get him to calm down, and then walk back out and wait longer like 10 minutes. If he still is crying then go back in and pat him on the butt or whatever to get him to calm him down (but try not to pick him up) then walk out and wait even longer. The next night I would suggest starting with waiting 10min (or whatever the 2nd time it was you choose) and then go back in and try not to pick him up but get him settled down. Good Luck it is hard but you can do it- watch supper nanny (monday's at 10pm) she is awesome at getting children to sleep in their own beds!

Hi,
I agree with Raquel, follow your own mother instinct. The Ferber Method of course works (BUT AT WHAT COST!). It is not a healthy way of putting your baby to sleep at all(I heard or read, can't remember that Dr Ferber had not long ago put into question some of his methods and changed them completely! because he realized it was not a healthy solution) Do some reading research and put down your own method that you would be consistent with for few days/ a week and see how it works and re-evaluate. A book that really helped me and I still refer to it now and then with my new born is "HEALTHY SLEEP HABITS HAPPY CHILD" it is a great book.

All the best an treasure the moments with your baby it will go too fast.
blessings

Hi D.,

My oldest son co-slept with us and I didn't get him out of our bed until he was six... urgh! My second son never ever slept with us (learned our lesson), but we did have to try the ferber method with him because he was nursed as well (23 months when he was weaned!)and would wake up to get some mommy milk. The ferber method does work, but like a couple others have said, you have to be strong. His cries were horrible, but he slept through the night after that. Good luck!

You made a comment about the nursing leading to tooth decay. All of my boys, including my 2 month old are/were breastfed on demand and not one of them (2 month old excluded ~~ no teeth, yet. lol) ever had a cavity (the older boys are 9 and 11). I read an article that stated that the lactoferrin in breast milk actually kills the bacteria in your child's mouth that can cause tooth decay. They say that formula pools in the baby's mouth and that's where th decay comes in. A breastfed baby won't have pooled milk since they have to be actively sucking to get any. The article went on to say that there is little risk of any tooth decay for a breastfed baby unless they are genetically predisposed to it.

Hopefully this will help! I will email you the article... =)
S.

I would strongly go against the "cry-it-out method". I would more call it the "mom won't come, I give up" method. I believe it's really hard for the mom because it goes agains our natural instincts, which I can't immagine is a good thing. I read a wonderful book that may help you. It's full of GENTLE, and EFFECTIVE methods! It's called:

The No Cry Sleep Solition

You may also want to check out www.askdrsears.com for some more tips!

I forgot to add...

You can safely co-sleep. My husband and I took or bed off the frame and put it on the floor. It's not so pretty, but it's safe, and temporary. Eventually, we can teach him how to safely get off the bed. Breathable bed rails is another awesome soluction. My son did, unforunately, fall off the bed once. Since the bed was on the floor, though, he didn't get hurt. I now feed him and put him back in the middle.

Also... my biggest life saver is "playing dead". If he's not tired, and I am, I feed him, put him dow, and play dead. Eventually he falls asleetp... happily :).

Hello! We just moved to Arizona June 1, when our daughter was about 5 months old. We decided to stop cosleeping at that time because of the safety issue as well. We did a modified version of the ferber method. She also would only go to sleep while nursing. So what we did was set up her pack and play with the bassinet in it, in our room. I would nurse her and then lay her down right away, AND leave the room for awhile. She would cry for about 5-10 mns at most and then go to sleep (if it was ever longer than that, I would pick her up and try rocking her or soothing her). This worked well to get her to sleep, but since she was in our room she wouldn't stay asleep. She would want to get up every 2-3 hours to nurse, which was fine, but I was exhausted. So we started putting her in her crib at night, which is in a separate room. She would cry at first, but it was the same as putting her in the bassinet. She would cry for a few mns and then go to sleep, if not I would try rocking or singing to her. Since then she has been sleeping through the night!
As far as tooth decay, the thing that I heard is that if you let her just sleep on the breast (like if you are laying in bed and she is sleeping while latched on) that can lead to it. What I try to do at night is feed her her food, then nurse her until she is content, then lay her in her crib and say goodnight. She now knows it is sleepy time and starts sucking her thumb and goes to sleep. The other thing I would also suggest is that when it is naptime she should lay in her crib or bassinet to promote sleeping alone! Hope this helps!

D. it takes time for new habits to be accepted by anyone and it is true of a baby too. Be sure she has a full tummy and is dry and warm when you lay her down. Do it at the same time every night and within two weeks you should find she not only accepts her bed but relaxes when she is placed in it. She will try to convince you that you should change your mind at first but be forwarned she will do the same thing when she is twelve and you have a firm stand on something she is unsure about. Love her though this and resist picking her up if she fusses about the new routine for a while.

Hi D.. I do not prescribe to any cry it out or "sleep training" methods. 6 mos is really really young. Nursing DOES NOT contribute to tooth decay...formula at night does however. I think if you are concerned about her moving around in the bed.. you could always get a pre-made co-sleeper....they fit snug on the side of the bed...bed height. They are very useful...especially for night nursing. I think your doubts are important to listen to.

Crying methods are usually for a behavior modified temporary fix.... but in the mean time you teach your child to give up. That is the main goal in sleep training,to teach your child to give up that mom or dad will come and rock, or in your case nurse........HOW can that be any good??

I have two children and my oldest is 8, he sleeps very happily (in his own bed, for the last 4 yrs.) and my youngest is 4...he sleeps with me. I plan to have him move with his brother in the next year. It should be no problem. Typically a kiddo will want his or her own room.

Hi D.,

I am a first time mom and my daughter just turned one. All I can say is that the sooner you can get her to fall asleep "on her own", the better! My daughter also always fell asleep while nursing at night and when she got teeth I had to wake her to brush them, which was not good since sometimes that made us have to start the whole bedtime routine over again! I've read a lot of different methods, but I think you have to do a mixture of what works for you and your daughter after you try them out.

Here's what we do:
-Around 8 she takes a bath
-we read a few books
-we turn out the lights and put on music
-she drinks milk (from a cup now)
-brush her teeth
-I rock her for 5-10 min
-lay her in crib, but she is still AWAKE, that's the important thing. She's drowsy, but not all the way asleep.

Honestly, the "books" and "people" say to do this and that she will only cry for like 3 nights. Well, for me that wasn't true. It was off and on. Yes, the crying was awful. I would do the thing where I let her cry a few minutes, go in and pat her, and so on. I even picked her up and just held her for a minute sometimes (one method says it's not good to do that, another says it's fine)and then that was it for the rest of the night. So, really it's just a mix of what I'm comfortable with and she's comfortable with and now I do this routine at her naps too (minus the bath) and it's heaven! She rarely cries anymore, and if she does it literally lasts less than 15 seconds.

I know it's a bit harder when you are nursing at night, which I did until she was 11 months, but really just try to not let her fall asleep. Stop her and brush her teeth. I probably should mention that my daughter takes a pacifier, which obviously helps. I will attempt to be taking away the pacifier in the next three months...but that's a whole new issue, isn't it??!!

Your daughter is younger then when I started, so I say start trying things and find what works best. It's worth it, you will both feel better and be rested once you've found your routine.

One recent article I saw was in Parents magazine, August 2007 issue. It was called "Get your baby to sleep through the night". I liked it because it even had a little quiz first so you could see what method might work best for you.

Sorry this was so long, hope this helps!

Try nursing her till she is just about alseep then gently lay her down in her crib. If she fusses let her know you are right there (rub her back gently shshsh noices) and this should hopefully calm her then leave the room. You could always let her cry but set a time limit and don't let her cry pass that point, every day you can extend the time. Then she will know this is where she needs to sleep from now on. You could also try taking one of your night shirts and tuck it into the matress securly (so she has your sent) this works too.
Good luck I know it is a very hard transition
A.
www.romance2nite.com

Hi D.- I have a two year old who I had sleep next to my bed until he was about 6 months old. He was in a co-sleeper playpen (a bed that attaches on to yours). For me, I felt he was safer if he had his own area. This way I could reach him for breastfeeding easily too. My son had always been a terrible sleeper. He had acid reflux really bad and was a cluster feeder. So, he got up many times at night. By the time he was 6 months, we had his acid reflux in control and on a better eating schedule. But, he was still waking up at night a lot and wanting to breastfeed. I could only breastfeed him back to sleep. I tried patting, but it didn't work. I was working part-time and I was sooo exhausted. I swear I was seeing blurry. I starting researching sleep disorders and talked to my pediatrician. He told me to look into the ferber method.

I bought the book and it truly works. It's sooo hard on mom and dad because you have to allow your child to cry to sleep. Once a baby gets used to going to sleep with the boob, it is going to be he only way they can go to sleep. If your child only goes to sleep with a pacifier, it would be the same way. Ferber explaines it as if you sleep on a pillow every night and if one day mom took that pillow away. It would take a while to get used to sleeping without it. Anyways, the point is, the ferber method is hard, but it really works. If you want your child to sleep through the night within a week, it works. The method of Ferber is to put your child to sleep awake. If you breastfeed your baby to sleep, wake them right before you put them in the crib. Say goodnight and leave the room. The baby will cry. After 5 minutes go in and tell them "night night, you are ok" but you can't pick them up. Go back outside the room. After 10 minutes repeat, after 15 minutes repeat. The first day you don't let them cry longer than 15 min. This way they know they haven't been abandoned, but they learn you aren't going to give in. I spent many nights crying in my bed and counting down the minutes until I could go in and tell my son he was ok. The first night is the roughest. My son cried for almost 2 hours before he gave in and fell asleep. I had to do the same thing when he woke at night. I was exhausted. But each day it got easier and he slept longer and longer periods. All I can say is that it works! My son is so stubborn and he needed to learn that I wasn't going to give into him if he cried. It was really hard, but if you do it, your child will sleep through the night. The earlier you do it, the easier it will be when they are a toddler.

I was a strong believer in breastfeeding, but sleeping with my child scared me. I feared that he would get caught up in the sheets and suffocate. I know a lot of parents sleep with their kids until they are 2 or 3. I feel that that is fine if that is what they want to do. My son kicked me all night and my husband and I needed to go to bed without tiptoeing around the bed. It just didn't work for us.

I highly reccomend getting the ferber method book and trying it for 1-2 weeks. If its not for you, there are many other sleep methods out there that might be right for you.

Best of luck! I know how hard it is.
A.