Ok, so here I am again, my grandson is now 4 and 1/2 years old. We still cannot get him to go potty on his own. We consistently still need to remind him to go number 1. Number 2 we have not been able to get him to go but maybe once or twice in the potty. He will fight us all the way when it comes to that. As soon as we take him off the potty he goes in his pants. We have him in big boy underwear now, even at daycare. We are throwing away lot of underwear. But we wanted him to understand that pull ups were not for big boys, he always asks for pull ups.
When he goes in his pants we ask why he does it, his response "Because I needed to go" The school, myself and my husband are out of ides. We have done everything from incentives to bribing. Then we began taking special toys away, did not help. But we also have not given them back either. The doctor states that there is nothing wrong with him physically. He starts Kindergarten in the fall, what do I do? Sorry for being lengthy. Grandma is tired. I potty trained 3 boys by the time they were 3.
Is my baby the only one?
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all the feedback. I wanted to send out a special thank you to Gail B., she had stated that there may be a physical problem with Shawn. Come to find out he does. He is now going to a gastro specialist. Through x-rays, they found that Shawn had a lot of back up in his sytem, meening lots of waste not coming out. then when he did go it was so big that it just was unthinkablie that a child can pass something so big. His intestinse have enlarged so much that he can store lots of waste and does not get the urge to go like a normal child. Going to the specialist now this week to find out how to help him. So to all you moms that might have a child hard to train with number 2, do not rule out a medical problem.
Thank you again for all your help.
I would give it a break....put him back on pull ups or diapers.
Don't ask him if he needs to go...let him tell you.
Read books about potty.
He is probably overwelmed by sooo much attention on the "potty" ...so just let it go for now and soon he will tell you he needs to go to the potty.
Try leaving his underwear on under the pullups that way he can feel the wetness but it won't get on the floor, and put something in the toilet and tell him to sink it..if he does then give him an applause and a treat-like small toy or anything to acknowledge his achievement before you know it he'll be potty trained.
Best of luck.
He is not remotely the only one, this sounds exactly like my son at that age. He didn't manage to stop pooping in his pants until after he was 5. My advice: Back off for a while. You are now in a power struggle about something over which you have no control. He is proving that every day. Be gentle and patient and make it no big deal. Keep him in pull-ups if that's what he wants. Keep up what's working (reminding him to go #1, great) and for the rest of it, be totally neutral. Give him his special toys back, there should be no punishment where the potty is concerned. I talked some about listening to his body and taking care of himself, just that's it is a part of being a human being. When the pressure is off, he may be more inclined to choose it himself. You can ask him every couple of days if he'd like to try using the potty, or try a day in underpants, but aside from gentle talk and support, be calm. He'll be fine in time, I swear!
Rule out a few mental barriers, like is he afraid of falling in the toilet? Is he afraid of the flushing noise? (my son hates the loud flush sound in public restrooms) Is he worried about where the poop goes or about being splashed when he goes on the toilet?
If all the answers are NO, then it is rebellion thing.
Does he want you to change his pull-up right away after he poops, or is he comfortable sitting in the mess?
My son fought me on #2 and I knew he could do it, wasn't afraid, was aware of his body signals because he would hide to go poop in his pull-up and then cry if I refused to clean him up right away. SO, one day in a fit of anger and frustration I got down on my knees, looked him in the eye and talked to him like an adult. I told him I was really angry and tired of cleaning up his nasty filthy poops, he was a Big Boy now with a Big Boy bed and toys and he was still going in his pants like a baby. I asked him if I had done something so bad that I deserved to be cleaning up his poop when I know he is a Big Boy who is not afraid of the potty and who is very smart and understands how it works and how to do it. I was a little shocked with myself after I said all of that - BUT he sat there for a minute and then looked up at me and told me he wanted to be a BIG BOY and use the potty. After he went #2 in the toilet he asked me if I was proud of him and if I was happy. I lit the little scented "rescue" candle and let him blow it out like a birthday candle. for about 2 weeks I had to light the little candle and let him blow it out. That was about a year ago...
Except for the flu - he has not had a #2 accident in his pants since. He still has #1 accidents - but usually just a few drops and then he high tails it to the toilet - too busy playing and procrastinates. SO, I do still remind him to go 3-4 times a day. I think with boys you'll have to nag them until they get married.
Try not putting him in pants - it's a redneck potty training technique I learned from my sister-in-law from Alabama. YOu let them mess themselves a few times - hopefully out doors or on a tile floor until they get it.
My nephew didn't really potty train until he was 4. Boys are a little slower about hygiene stuff than girls.
Try talking to a child psycologist about this issue. I've found my peidatrician to be useless for behavior issues - her kid must be a brat!
T.,
Its most likely a control issue, thier bodily functions are the only thing they can control because they feel that you as the adult controls everything else.. With my now 4 year old it was an uphill battle the whole way, finally I decided to try one of those travel pottys.. I found it at Babies R us, it folds flat to fit into a diaper bag and they do pee and poop into pad lined plastic bags, it sits maybe 6 inches off the ground when unfolded, and for what ever reason it was what got my son using the potty, I think the fact that you have to squat over it helped a lot, and feeling the plastic bag next to his bum helped him to think it was more like a diaper.. and its a lot less intimidating than the toliet, I also liked this model because its smiliar to picking up dog poop, after they are done you remove the bag tie it up and toss it, no having to clean a pee tray from those other trainer potties..
My Ped recommended with my daughter that I take her shopping for some undies, let her pick them out and put them up some place where she can see them but not touch them, tell her everyday that once she decides to be a big girl she can have them, but not until then.. I know its another form of Bribing, but if he finds something he really really wants it might just work for you as well... It just takes time, and tons of support on your part.. Don't let your frustration show, it will only fuel his fire for control... Its hard, but hang in there! He'll start using the potty once he feels its not such a battle anymore...
Good Luck,
X.
my son was late potty training, and wet the bed till he was around 6. we never made a big deal out of it on my pediatricians advice. the first time he pooped on the potty, I let him take a picture of it then I took a picture of him holding the polaroid. He suddenly became proud of himself. I never took away things, only praised him when he did good. we always made a celebration of his accomplishments. (even if it was trying broccoli the first time LOL) He was a hard sleeper, and wet the bed because he couldn't wake up to the sensation. I would suggest you let him wear the pullups or over nights at night and don't put any pressure on him. All I ever really did was to remind my son.... we have to go shopping honey, so try and go potty before we leave..we may be gone for a while. if he did, then I let him get one of the free cookies at the store. though I never let him know until we got there, we would just walk up to the counter and I would smile and tell him he was being rewarded. If he pooped himself, I would ask simply, Oooh, what's that smell? did you have an accident? Praise went a long way with my son. *hugs* he is now 12 and I am 48 and also have an 11 year old daughter. good luck
Hi T.,
There is a possibility there COULD be a physical reason. Did your doctor do bloodwork? Did he take an abdominal xray?
Did he take a stool for exam? If he didn't then how can your doctor say with such certainty that it is not physical?
It sounds to me like when your son's urge to go comes, he cannot hold it at that point. This fecal incontinence is called encopresis. It is much more prevalent in boys. It is chronic constipation, which enlarges the intestines and puts a strain on them, stretching the muscles and causing mega colon. The constipation can be seen in an xray. An interesting fact about constipation, is that you can even have very soft stool and be constipated. The soft stool squeezes out around the impaction.
Other reasons for constipation can be:
pinworms and whipworms (found in a stool exam)
celiacs disease (malabsorption and intestinal damage due to gluten)
yeast (which has the same protien chain as celiacs and can do the same damage to the intestinal wall)
Vitamin deficiency, especially B1-thiamine.
You can help your son by increasing his thiamine intake. (males have more muscle mass than females, so I'm not surprised constipation occurs more in males. they need more thiamine and are more prone to deficiency.)Thiamine will increase his intestinal muscle tone. Have him take a B complex or the thiamine (1.0 mg day), and also fulvic acid to help with uptake. Bring his sugar consumption way down, since that will deplete vitamin B levels. Start eating more apples, brown rice (mix it half and half with white if you have to, to get him used to it), avacados, oatmeal (not the 1 minute stuff, it is too processed. Use the 5 minute old fashioned.)
Other signs of vit b1 deficiency could be:
clumsy
instability
abdominal pain
chest pain
depression
tiredness
stunted growth
insomnia, can't fall asleep or stay alseep
This might seem weird--but has anyone taught him to pee standing up? For some boys, this does the trick. My husband's cousin's oldest was close to 4 & not trained, and my husband finally took him out back (we were out in the country) & taught him how to "water a tree". He was trained from that day on--standing up. I used to teach day care, & I've seen this turn the trick with other little guys, too.
(Why throw out soiled underwear? They wash--just provide a plastic bag for daycare to send them home in).
Hi T.,
I actually did the same thing as Marlene did. I setup the bathroom for his "accidents" and had everything in there for him to clean himself up.
I needed to have a relaxed mind about the whole thing, and told him I wouldn't remind him, or help him clean himself. He was a Big Boy now, and I just know that he could do it on his own. Accidents were fewer and farther between immediately after the first accident.
Don't worry about him NOT cleaning himself like you would. As long as you give him a bath nightly, he'll be fine for a few weeks. And DON'T let him catch you cleaning the bathroom after he cleaned it. He could assume that you will do it for him, and you will go backwards.
These are the kinds of things that help us decide whether our children are ready to begin school, or not. I hope that it all works out for him.
Oh yeah, did you notice how all of our responses are about boys? boys! boys! boys! :O)
~N. :O)
The advice to make it a non-issue is very good. Additionally, I'd consider discussing with him what reward/incentives he would like for using the potty. Something small for "number one" during the day (like crackers or a candy each time), something more for a #1 dry day (like a small, inexpensive toy), and something more for a #2 dry day and then week . . . but if he's involved in the decision, it may move the "power" (struggle) Kate was talking about in a positive direction - he then has "power" (or a say) in a positive direction rather than a negative one. Worst case scenario, the peer pressure of kindergarten will frequently help the most resistant of potty training difficulties when it truly is within the child's control.
K.
Good morning!
We went through this with my son a little. What worked for us (and my suggestion to you) would be to back off a bit and let him figure it out. Even put him in pullups for when he's home and let him determine what he wants to do. Have you tried "target practice" (fruit loops or cheerios in the potty and hit them)? Or "science lab" where you put a few drops of food color in the potty and when he goes, it will change color? If his preschool won't allow pullups, fine, for there, but for a week or two or even three, as long as it takes for him to make the decision, don't push him at home. Don't say anything about going potty. Put him in charge of changing his pullup and cleaning himself up (no attention when he goes in his pullup) and if he asks to go to the potty or says that he kept his pullup dry because he went in the potty, make a HUGE deal of it! My son got into the "keeping the pullup dry" thing... and even though he's not consistent at naptime, he's really proud of himself when he's kept his pullup dry at naptime for a week! That and bedtime are the only times he wears a pullup. But we had to back off and lay low for a few weeks there. The more you push, the more they push back and in this case, it just means going in his pants. Good luck!!! :)
Hi T.,
We went through this two years ago with our son. At 4 1/2 he was also having very frequent accidents in his pants. We also were stressed about his starting kindergarten. When we talked with him about the fact that he couldn't go to kindergarten unless he could go on the potty without having accidents, his response was that he didn't want to go to school, he'd rather stay in preschool!
His birthday is in early September. It has become relatively common for boys with a fall birthday (sometimes even late summer) to wait a year to start school. Our school district does an optional "readiness" evaluation for incoming kindergartners (I think it was in March.) They said he was not ready (scored 27/100) and recommended another year of preschool. His preschool teachers agreed. I agonized over the decision, but we did end up doing just that. He went to a "Young Fives" preschool program that was half day, five days per week.
That turned out to be just what he needed. The potty problems did resolve themselves (when he was 5 yo) by just being patient and continuing with constant, but positive, reinforcement and encouragement. He is the oldest (and biggest) in his class, but that doesn't bother him at all. The extra year gave him greater maturity and self-confidence, and he is doing very well in school (both in kinder last year and now in 1st grade).
See if your grandson's school does "kindergarten readiness evaluations". We also went to a parent education type of meeting organized by our preschool that discussed this topic. I know the Los Altos School District is having one of these talks coming up soon. (Let me know if you want more details on that.)
I hope that helps. Good luck!
-D.
My colleague just went through the same thing and they figured out their son would only use the potty if it was under their desk in the dark. For some reason he didn't feel safe in the bathroom in the open with everyone looking at him. Can't blame him really.
Does he get to go to the bathroom when adults go so that he can see that adults poop in the toilet? Have him go with his dad every time his dad goes to the bathroom and make it a "man" thing.
If you know that he will poop once he gets off the potty have you tried leaving him on it until he does even if its for a really long time? Probably a last resort, but if all else fails.....
I'm sure someone will give you better ideas but I was fascinated with the concept that my friends son would use it under the desk! The next day he was happy to use the potty in the bathroom!
www.3daypottytraining.com was recomended to me from this web site. And it works!
You are a great Nonna. My niece will be 6 in February and is still ot trained. I think she does it to spite her mom. She is adopted and was a premature drug baby. Don't know if that has anything to do wiith it but she has been kicked out of Kindergarten because she is not trained. I think patience and consistency are key. Tell him that he cant go to school until he goes potty like a big boy is supposed to. Good luck.
Dear T.,
We just "finished" the same exact issue with my son (who will be 5 next month!!). What we did after all else failed (bribes, rewards, punishments, etc) was to make him clean himself up. We stopped telling him to use the potty. We stopped asking if he had to go. We stopped talking about using the toilet at all.
One night I said to him: You are too big for diapers now, and Mommy and Daddy are not going to clean you up any more when you have accidents. We know that you can change your clothes and wipe your own bottom, so starting tomorrow, that's how it is going to be." So the next day, he was in underwear (this was just after Thanksgiving). Of course, as usual, he pooped his pants. So I said "Oh, the wipes are on the bathroom counter. Put your dirty clothes in the laundry." He threw a major tantrum saying he couldn't do it and that it was my job. I told him I would start a bath for him if he preferred, but it was his job to clean himself up. He did that for a few days (throwing a fit every time), and then, mostly calmed down about it. He still didn't want to stop what he was doing. Sometimes I actually picked him up and put him in the bathroom with the wipes. My husband did the same. It was SOOO frustrating. Then, at the beginning of this month, he had a chance to go back to preschool (I had pulled him out because he just wasn't using the toilet for poops). I told him we were going to let him try it again, but he needed to use the toilet for poops. And my husband told him that if he really couldn't feel the poops coming out he would need to go to the doctor (we knew nothing was wrong because when naked, he always made it to the toilet).
I don't know if he was tired of cleaning himself, eager for preschool, or scared of the doctor, but he has been nearly three weeks of using the toilet now, with very few accidents (and only one poopy accident- and that was today). We are not totally out of the woods, but it is such an improvement.
I had been "training' him since he was 2 1/2: and he was very consistent when naked, so I knew it was not a physical problem, but rather a power play. I also asked for suggestions on this site and learned that I was FAR from the only one who's child wouldn't poop in the potty. Crazy kid! Anyway, now he makes a big deal to tell us he's pooped or peed, and the "big" thing now is to remind him to flush.
Best wishes to you!
P.S. We kept a bucket by the toilet for his poopy underwear that he had washed out in the toilet, and told him not to flush the toilet until the underwear was in the bucket. The first couple of times he thought swishing the water was fun (so you are warned), but he soon got sick of it and tried to do it as quickly as possible.
Hi T.,
My son was tough to train, too. We had to completely back off potty training for a couple of months because, as others have mentioned, it had become a power struggle. Our son had found something we cared about that he could actually control. He did not want to give up that control! Without any shame or non-supportive words, we simply put him back in diapers (not pull-ups -- they are too confusing, letting the child think that he is kind of in underwear). If you can find ones that will feel wet or cold or something else when he goes, that is helpful. Diapers are too darn comfortable these days! Then, after about two or three months in diapers, we picked a warm long weekend and told him the day before that, as of tomorrow, we will no longer have diapers in the house (except overnight ones) because we no longer had anyone in the house who needed them. I don't think he believed us because he didn't complain. Also, I think the months in between put the power struggle out of his head. During those months we never once mentioned the potty, potty training, etc. Then, when the long weekend began, we told him that we no longer had diapers. If your grandson says you can buy some more, just calmly, like it's no big deal, tell him that there is no need to do that because there is no one in your house (or at least no one his size) who needs them any more. We took our son and a potty out on our deck and suggested he go without pants, something that seems to work for lots of kids. He absolutely wanted pants. We did not want to start any new power struggles and suggested that we try his way first (with sweatpants that were getting too small for him). We told him that if he had any accidents, that was okay but that we would try the no pants idea. He agreed. He had an accident and then had to go without pants. We also told him that some of the places he really liked to go, and would usually go on Saturdays and Sundays, like the bagel store and music class don't allow people who pee in their pants to come in because it isn't sanitary. We told him how sorry we were that that was the case but that we didn't have any control over those rules. That way, it wasn't us against him. It was him against the natural consequences of peeing in his pants. We told him that he could go to the bagel store with his dad on Sat if he didn't have any more accidents on Friday. He had another accident, and we told him it was okay and that we loved him. The problem was that he couldn't go for bagels, and we were so sorry about that and gave him a big hug. Then, the next morning, he had to stay home with me while his dad went to get bagels. When my son cried, I gave him a hug and told him that I was so sorry that he couldn't go. The good news, though, was that he could go to music class on Sunday if he didn't have any accidents before then. He didn't have another accident for about two months, at which point he just had a normal kind of accident that kids have sometimes, and he went many more months with no problems. Just make sure your grandson is wearing pants that he can easily pull down at a moment's notice for the first few weeks. That long weekend was two years ago, and he has had about three accidents since (he is now a little over 5.5 years), always because he didn't want to stop whatever activity he was doing. I think that backing off and then taking the us vs. him out of it helped tremendously. When he saw that parts of the world he cared about and couldn't control had their own consequences, then he cared enough to use the toilet. We were also careful to give his accidents those first days very little attention. Even negative attention is a reward. The first time he used the potty, we called his grandma (you could call an auntie or someone else important to him) to share the great news and gave him lots of praise and hugs. After that first time, we smiled and said great but didn't give too much praise because our son needed to know that going in the potty wasn't a special occasion; it was an expectation. As for pooping in the potty, that took a bit longer. He would hold it all day and then go as soon as we put on his overnight diaper. We didn't get upset with it. Apparently, lots of kids are afraid of pooping on the potty. They feel like they are dropping a limb in there! We had him help us roll the poop out of the diaper and into the toilet and then flush it down. That seemed to desensitize him a bit. He also came into the loo with us when we pooped and we showed him what ended up in the toilet. It took a couple of months, but our patience finally paid off. Just be sure that your grandson has no idea how much you care that he uses the toilet! Let him think he is making the decision. He is even old enough at this point to tell you what might help him go poop in the toilet. Best of luck to you, and enjoy a few months of not having potty struggles. That strong will serve your grandson well in other ways!
I would back off for a while and see what happens. When you make things a big deal, and for so long, it becomes a battle of wills. Make it not an issue and I bet he starts asking to use the potty. I think you and your husband are doing a wonderful thing for your grandson by taking him in and raising him. He will use the potty, but it just takes some longer than others. I would put him back in the pull-ups and after a little while start fresh.
I was a live-in Nanny about 20 years ago and came across the same thing. How much does you Grandson like going to daycare? How much is he looking forward to going to Kindergarten? I ask this because if his interest is strong you can use that as an incentive, as I did. The child I tried to potty train was almost out of diapers when the divorce of his parents made him regress.
One day he asked me why he couldn't go to Kindergarten. I told him that big boys didn't go to the potty in their pants and that the teachers were not going to change him if he did. So, he couldn't go to school until he was able to go on his own. He was self trained in a week with only a few accidents after that.
I don't know how many people will agree or approve of this method but, I do not feel there is anything wrong with being honest and direct with a child when the need is there.
Good luck!
D.
The book "Oncke Upon a Potty" has been used very successfully for quite a few years. It is written from the child's point of view, is very neutral, and non-judgmental. Reading it aloud to children I have worked with has been very successful. Our son't pre-school used it to help kids who were potty training.
S.
Hello, as a grandmother who also was able to train early I found that removing ALL underware helps him to realize that you have to put it somewhere else!!!! It is foreign and very disconcerting at first, even a bit scary but it makes the difference. Of course this is only done at home but as much as possible and if never one admonishment comes it turns into," whoops you almost made the pot"!
