Question About Things After a Person Dies!

I have to agree with Patty S. These are just things. I am certain they hold special memories for you and your grandmother. This exact thing happened to my husband when his mother died, but the grandmother that was wanting things was his father's mother. She said it was proper that she had given them to her so they were hers to have back. The very sad thing is my husband was never very close to his grandmother and this was always stumbling block between them. Many years later as she lay dying of cancer, he made an extremely long trip to see her and all she did was ask him for more things.
Please don't let this get in the middle of your relationship with your grandmother. Maybe you and she could go through these items together and talk about the memories they hold for each of you. You may be surprised, it may not be the items at all she is wanting to hold onto, but happier times with her daughter. It would probably bring up some stories you might have not known about your mother and could give you and your grandmother some time alone to laugh and cry together.
These are earthly possessions. Your memories of your mother are locked gently in your heart and no one can take those from you.

Your father should know whether things were gifts or loans. If he does not know, chances are it was something not significant to him, more personal in nature, and perhaps your grandmother just wants it for herself for the sake of memory. But from a legal perspective, and I am a probate attorney, the executor of your mother's estate is the person charged with determining what things are your mother's property and how that property should be decided, in conjuntion with your mother's will if there is one. If there is no will, then the beneficiaries of her estate can elect a person to be the representative and that person would determine the status of property. If the items were truly loaned, then those items would not be part of your mother's estate. Generally the presumption is that if one has possession of an item, then one is the owner, but your mother could certainly try to prove otherwise if the executor or representative questioned her. If your mother had a will, she put a lot of thought and trust into the person she appointed as executor, and you should be content to accept that person's decisions - that is what your mother would want you to do. I counsel my clients that "Death brings out the worst in people." By that I mean all of you are going through a really hard time; you are dealing with shock and a whole change in the way your lives work, as well as grief at the loss of your mother. And grief is cumulative, so if your grandmother recently lost another family member, she is suffering from really really hard times. I counsel people to try to be careful about taking a hard line at this point in time; give your grandmother a chance to get through this time and don't hold her actions against her (assuming she gets better), because she may do things under this stress that she would not do otherwise. And keep in mind that you are likely in the "angry" stage of grief, which comes right after denial, and you are likely to be reacting much more strongly about this than you might otherwise. In fact, when in the angry stage, one might pick out something to be really angry about (like your grandmother) because it's so much easier to hang on to that anger and not have to really feel the grief that is in your life. Just a thought. Most of my wills state that the executor should divide personal items among family members as he or she thinks best. My advice to you: take really good care of yourself and be kind to yourself. Losing a mother is really really hard. And it's supposed to hurt; it's ok to cry. As time goes on, the pain will be replaced by more fond memories. You will always miss her but there will be times that you can remember and smile. Your mom is now warm, safe, and happy, and just waiting for you. Try to give your grandmother a hug. I like the suggestion of spending some time with her talking about the "gifts" and asking about the memories associated with them. Could be a good way to open up some comunication between both of you. Take good care of yourself.

Legally (in Texas), unless there is a will to state otherwise, all the things in your mother's estate go to her husband (your dad I assume). Personally I would give her anything that does not hold great sentimental value and then call an eldercare organization in your grandmother's area to come check out her mental state. She's sounding like dementia could be setting in.

First of all, I'm sorry for your loss. This is a horrible situation for all of you. How does your father feel? After all, these things must be 'leaving' his home? When my grandmother died one of her friends came into the home during the wake and started taking things! Everyone felt so awkward that they didn't say anything! I think grief affects people in different ways. If there are things that mean alot to you or your father, maybe put them out of site until this 'phase' blows over. My sister died when she was 24, and she spent a long time sorting out things she wanted each person to have. Everything else was to go to her son, and we all understood that. When my dad died it was like a bargain basement free for all! It was horrible, but life for the rest of us goes on and it will for you too. I think you should try to 'hide' a few meaningful things, that way your grandmother can have her memory pieces, and so can you.

If you're willing to take it to this extreme (if you think it's necessary), talk to a lawyer who specializes in estates. Did your mother leave behind a will? I would think that the law is on the side of your father, as surviving spouse, but I don't know. Of course, I also agree with some of the other posters in that maybe you can give your grandmother whatever you feel is appropriate, and then cut your ties with her until she's ready to be mature about this. Most likely, she's distraught and clinging to anything she has to remember her children.

I thought everything belonged to the remaining spouse. I would suggest you talk to a lawyer.

I am so sorry for your loss E.. This must be very hard for you. I would like to ask you a question. Do you want to maintain a relationship with your Grandma? My guess is "yes." Family relationships can be so difficult, but ask yourself whether it would be worth it to cause a riff. If there is something you truly treasure I would set it aside....Grandma may not even notice, but I would respectfully return whatever Grandma asks for. These, after all, are only "things." It is my belief that your mother doesn't care about "things" anymore. She is in a place that is beyond all that... You have lost your mother. Grandma has lost her daughter. In my mind, what is right is doing your best to maintain family relations in the most healthy way possible.

From what little bit I know about people dieing (keep in mind, it's only happened to people in my family who only have living children/grandchildren- no living parents, or else no children and survived by parents and siblings...) is that if there is nothing specifically mentioned as to who it goes to, the person who gave it to them generally gets it back, unless they don't want it back. But they get first dibs, so to speak, on it. So, if your mother left no will, it may be traditionally acceptable for her to do that. Leagally, I have no idea. It could be that she sees it (as your brother says) as a way to remember her. And while I can't truely speak for her, it might be good to consider the fact that you are both going through a rough time emotionally, dealing with your mother's death. I'm sure your grandmother never intended to outlive your mother, and it's my belief that the attachment between a mother and her child are stronger than the attachment between siblings (excepting twins possibly) and she may be taking your mothers death harder than her brothers.

I'd recommend to try and let it go. There are probably plenty of things that your grandmother didn't give her that you could have to remember her by. As for the cups and saucers, perhaps you could work something out with your grandmother there - explain to her why she shouldn't give them back and see if maybe there is something she can do to help with the business - in memory of her daughter. It would be awful to have your mother's death ruin your and your children's relation ship with your grandmother. I'm sure that's not what she would want.

I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you can get things with your grandmother worked out.

Well E., I'm sorry for your loss. May God bless you, your father, and brother. I don't know about legality, but you don't HAVE to do anything. I would give as much as you can back to her, taking note of everything. Then cut ties verbally and emotionally with Her, because of her attitude. My Father passed March 28 2007 and I was proud of My Brother's and I on how well we dealt with everything and we all agree that your Grandmother is being unreasonable and selfish. She deserves to have the things she wants, because she is never going to get her sanity back, because of her greed. I'm sorry if I'm adding to your pain, and that I might sound upset at how your Grandmother is behaving. You don't have to take my advice at all, and please stay yourself through all of this and do only what you can live with. I have just seen the greed in some families and I really hate it. There are some great books that deal with building off of your memories I think they have Angel in the title. I hope you get some really good advice.

Its probably her angry phase, I know like a few months after my grandpa died, my grandma started acting funny. She would say she wasn't gonna talk to his family anymore because now that he was gone she wasn't related to them. True but far from the truth. They love her like thier own sis.
Now we ask her to have just a few things of his to remember him by, and she always changes the subject. So we don't try to push it, she probably isn't ready. Its only been a year and they were together for 70+ years. So if you look at it in the mothers eyes, you have lost your child and you want the things that were special to you. I know it hurts cause you are in your healing phase too.
Hope that helps. Sorry about your loss.
-C.

It sounds like your Grandmother is having problems with grief. You might want to recommend her to see some one about her grief issues. In most cities there are free grief support groups. Sometimes the groups can be found at Hospice, funeral homes, or Churches.
Good Luck.