Pinching & Hitting 17 Month Old...

Lots of expert advice from Dr. Sears here, I think they would really help you a lot, not only for discipline tactics, but also teaching your child how to express himself without the aggression:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T060100.asp

he specifically talks about the pinching/hitting and hw to combat it here:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T063900.asp#T062400

Time out for his age can work, but it depends. Mostly, it's for removing him from the situation for a few moments so he can calm down and be redirected in a less angry way when he goes back to play.

In a larger nursery room with that many kids including infants, it's not possible to expect them to catch him and redirect him every time like you are able. Of course, it's ideal, but simply not possible. If a short time out is going to work for him in that setting, then by all means they should do it. That is my opinion anyways.

You are certainly not alone! My second son (now nearly 2.5 yo) is way more boisterous and rowdy than my first. We've gone through various stages of hitting and biting.

Like you said, I think there aren't enough moms at the MOPS nursery to really spend time with each toddler. Getting one-on-one help is so important and so badly needed for toddlers. And being placed in large groups, I think, doesn't set kids up to be successful and well-behaved. They get stressed and overwhelmed perhaps. They can't express anger in good ways. Frustration makes them act out in inappropriate ways. Too many kids and too few teachers just isn't a recipe for success.

You could discuss with the nursery workers on how to proceed with discipline ("teachable moment", redirecting, but no time-outs). Ask them if they have the time to devote to your son. If not, then maybe wait a few weeks or months and try the nursery again. Maybe by this time the hitting will pass or they will have more workers. He needs more attention and guideance, not more time-outs.

Good luck!!

Momma L's advice is good. If the caregivers are willing to do it, they can try short time-outs. These may or may not go well.

This behavior is common at your son's age, and it may be as much a personality quirk as a second-child problem. Nevertheless, it is definitely a problem.

On MOPS nights, could you take a session or two to sit in with your son and shadow him like you do at home? Again, that may or may not help. But the more incidents you can prevent, the better for all concerned, because children who have been bitten, kicked, hit or pinched are more likely to try those tactics on other kids – so it keeps spreading. If all else fails, you might want to stop going to the group for a couple of months, until your son has developed more patience, and more mature ways of getting his needs met. This phase doesn't usually last too long.

Okay mostly I had to respond to your question b/c I asked a similar one yesterday about my 17 month old who hits people too...this makes me feel a little bit less alone!!

Anyway, I do think you are right about this being somewhat typical behavior for this age and to me, but I suppose my opinion doesn't count much since we're in the same boat ;), you're right on track! I would tell them what you do, which seems reasonable, and go from there. I get that you might be hesitant about them putting him in a time out, but they have to do something. If they don't do "anything" then when the other parent raises a fuss they can at least say, well we put him in time out! I get the feeling it's not so much about how they handle, but that they DO in fact handle it so they can defend themselves to others. Maybe that sounds harsh but I hope your issues get resolved and if you have any pointers for me, pass them along!

Distracting and redirecting will not teach him the behavior is seriously not allowed it will just distract and redirect him so he tries it again the next time he feels like it. Time outs are for daycares. If you really discipline him-no he's not too young, and of COURSE this is what kids his age do if they're allowed-he will stop. Not just forget for the moment, but truly not do it. Then your worries will be in the rear view. This whole, "Shouldn't people re-direct my normal kid?" view can get you in big trouble if he hurts another child. A hitter at my son's daycare who got no discipline at home other than time outs (not firm enough) finally struck an infant in the head with a heavy truck and the father was MAD. He and his mom never came back. It's easy to train kids not to do these aggressive behaviors, easier now than later, but you need to be firm. My daughter-my third-is now 19 months, and she was WAY tougher, angrier, and more aggressive, at an earlier age, than my other two. She has learned not to do these things. She definitely would have become a terror if allowed to be-and was for a while around age one-but her training worked and now she's very mature. If she lifts an angry fist to strike, and someone says "No!" She puts down her hand, because she had a consequence for it consistently when she would do it after a warning. This is a girl who used to strike me in the face while screaming if I didnt' move along fast enough from talking to people, haul off and slug her brother in the face unprovoked, rip him down off of chairs, bite him. She now does none of these things, and I can trust her with anyone's baby. Your son can learn.

You've received some lovely answers about redirecting.

I just wanted to add that NO, your son is not a little terror. Although the question about how you handle it at home may have put you on the spot, assume that these women are wanting to stay consistent with what you are doing at home, first and foremost.

Little ones are so misjudged, in my opinion. Pinching and hitting are fairly common, and yes, redirection and shadowing is the key to curbing this. I work with preschoolers who are *still* learning how to ask for a turn with a toy and how to play with others. I really hope this isn't the expectation of the MOPS group, and I liked your idea of having them distract/redirect and then, if that is still not working, to page you.

And 'using words' is hard even for older children when they are frustrated, so much so that I have not made that my first direction to a toddler this age. If you feel you should hold off on MOPS until he's older, it's likely a good call. (If that is your gut instinct.) Or, would he be old enough to integrate into the room of 'older kids', where he would be less likely to hurt a child significantly younger? That might be another thought-- depending on their numbers/ratios and curriculum. There may be more available 'hands' and 'eyes'. They might not agree, but I think if it might be a good fit, it's worth asking. (I once had a 17month old join our 20-30 month toddler group and it was a very good change for all of us. She was ready.)

Good luck,
H.