Oh, What to Do?

M., That's a very sad situation, and I have but one response, and it's not a popular response. I only say this because I understand, far more than most people, how incredibly devastating divorce is on children, including life-long personality problems which subsequently develop: please remain married and be civilized until the youngest one finishes high school.

Many of us live with similar relationship problems. I remain convinced that a set of civilized but not "in love" parents is DRAMATICALLY better for the children than divorce.

This is a spiritual book, but could you try the Love Dare? A movie came out about it called Fireproof. This couple was on the verge of divorce and his father asked him to try this for 30 days and if it didn't work then he could continue with the divorce. If you order it online at walmart or amazon it is only around $8.00. Otherwise in a bookstore it is double.

Not to be the bad guy here, but yesterday on the news they just came out with a study that said that a divorce for children is worse than a death of a parent. Just a thought.

First, I want to tell you that I am an advocate of self-esteem and not an advocate of divorce. Your kids definately need to see a healthy relationship! We all do! I am sure it would be wonderful for you to be in a healthy relationship. Like Dr. Phil says, "Better to come from a broken home then be in a broken home!" Your kids can have a mommy and a daddy that don't live in the same home but have a great interest in raising and nurturing the kids. I just went through a divorce and my son came through it as a champ. His father and I have great love for him and we set aside our differences to do what is best for him. In the state of UT, parents must go through a divorce education class which deals with all the aspects concerning the children. The class is wonderful and I feel that it can be done. My son calls his dad each night before he goes to bed and even though they are apart, they are still together. I come from a home in which my parents never separated because of the negative stigma that is placed on divorce. Oh how I wish they would have done things different. They fought a lot (not much out in the open) and I still have to see the negative relationship to this day and wonder how it is effecting my children. You will not be selfish if separation or divorce is what you decide to do.

M.,
First off let em say that your a strong woman for dealing with this. Its heard I am sure. I am not sure if I should give Advice but I can tell you my thought. I think you ahve done everything you can do, and if you end it you can hold you head high know that.
I know its hard to end a relationship and I had to make that choise once too. But I had to sit down and think of all the reasons to stay and to go. What it canme down to for me (as with most mamas) is my son. I didnt want him to think that the way my Ex was was the way a man should act, and that being unhappy in a relationship was normal. I knew I could be happer away from him than with him, and I could THEN be a better mommy because of that. I also think that kids would rather be from a broken home than IN one.
I also think that you owe it to yourself to be with someone what WANTS to be with you and can see what a strong beautiful woman you are. Whatever you chose to do I wish you the best! HUG!!!

It's wonderful that you are looking at how this impacts everyone. You are a very thoughtful person. I have seen many unhappy couples trying to stay together, and I agree with your comment about it not being good for the kids. It's also not good for your husband or you to continue being unhappy together. Everyone around you feels it. A trial separation might be a good idea as long as you set some mutual "rules" - time frame, dating/no dating, time to spend together, etc. I wish you happiness - this must be very difficult.

echoing Carrie, when I read your post I was thinking of Dr. Phil, I thought of the quote "it's better to be healthy and alone than sick and together"
my parents moved a lot. I never lived anywhere more than 3 years in my whole life until I got married--to a military man no less. lol. I think a lot of the moving was due to my parents starting over to try to make things better and they would be for a little while but then the fights would start up again and the focus would be off the stresses of a move. it's like running. you can't run forever. I don't know what your answer will be but you deserve to be respected for who you are as a woman, and to love and respect yourself and to teach your children to respect themselves and those of the opposite gender. can you do that in your relationship as it is right now? kids are resiliant--
if you do a separation I would look into a legal separation so that moving into a divorce is already in line if thats how it goes and so that in the meantime finances and everything are in line it protects everyone involved.
good luck with whatever you decide

Hi Michelle,

Please read the book, "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin.

It has testimonials all throughout the book from different women with crappy, absolutely awful, horrendous marriages that did COMPLETE turnarounds to romantic, loving, happy marriages. It is all in your hands. The book is long, traditional, and based on the Bible, but not on any one religion.

It turned my marriage around after I thought my marriage had been dead and gone for 12 years. I honestly thought that my husband had poor character and was a jerk, and that I had tried my best. I really had tried my best with the knowledge that I had, but HOLY CRAP I WISH I COULD SHOUT FROM THE ROOFTOPS THE TRUTH OF THIS BOOK. IT IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!

I know how you feel, I really, really, really, really know how bad it hurts for you right now, and if women with adulterous, alcoholic, and just plain jerky husbands can later have absolutely fulfilling marriages where their husband starts loving them after he has stopped for years and was avoiding her, not trying, and treating her crappy,if that is what you want, even if you are sick of your husband, then this book is for you.

Read it and save your kids more pain and you and your husband more pain. I cannot say enough about it.

Hugs,

Marci

PS, I will buy you the book if you will read it!

Let me tell you that separating is not the easy way out. It is hard! At least you have a job in place, and have it figured out how to take care of your kids during the day. But think about how you would afford two housing payments, etc.

Being a single mom is hard, too. At night, there's no one to help you get the kids in bed. There's no one to help you get dinner on the table. I didn't really think that would be a big deal for me because my husband never helped, anyway. But when I'm at the end of my rope, he does pitch in and saves me from a mental breakdown.

I was separated (in a different state, even) for 5 months, and it was horrible. It was necessary in our case because he needed to get some professional help for personal problems he was having. It helped him realize that he wanted his family more than he wanted to keep up his destructive behavior.

Now, I'm sort of in your husband's shoes. My husband still has problems, and has treated me in ways that make it hard to feel any sort of love for him anymore. But that's something I can live with, because my kids love him, and he loves us. I've lowered my expectations of what I thought my marriage would be like, and I'm okay with it. Sure, I wish things were better, and I get jealous when I see moms and dads who obviously love each other. I especially have a hard time around Father's Day when other wives are gushing about how great their husbands are, because I can't bring myself to say anything really nice about him. He's not a great role model, I don't trust his judgment in a lot of areas, and he doesn't help out. But I know the alternative. It's not better. I agree completely with Dr. Laura's comment that "a bad daddy is not better than no daddy at all," but my husband is a lackluster dad, not a bad one. And no dad at all is a bad situation for kids to be in. So is being pulled between two houses and two parents.
Can you have a cordial relationship with him while he still lives in your house? This obviously won't work if you want to pursue other relationships, but if you don't care right now, I would venture that staying together, even if it's only a cordial friendship, would be better all around.

I would again urge him to talk with your family preist or pastor. Also have him, or both of you, read "The Love Dare" by Stephen Kendrick.

M.,

I completely disagree with Crista - coming from a divorced home (I was 12, my sister was 9) it is MUCH better NOT to stay in a bad relationship. My parents were always cordial and didn't fight, but it was obvious to kids (they DO notice...)that they didn't love each other and it wasn't working. We didn't do things as a family, my dad stayed late at work and we didn't see him much. Mom was stressed and trying to make up for it, but there's never a way to do that.

Once they divorced, they stayed cordial and we saw Dad a lot more. It became a better relationship for us with both parents than it did when we lived under one roof.

My step kids will tell you the same thing. My husband and his ex fought a lot and it just wasn't working. They finally called it quits and the kids (who are now 21 and 20 - then they were 8 and 9) are glad they did. They also had good quality time with their dad after the seperation and more time with him too.

They will also tell you it's so nice to see both their parents in loving relationships, vs. what they had together.

You have to decide, but my advice would be NOT to stay together for the kids sake. You are not doing them any favors by showing them a poor relationship and being miserable. (from someone who's been there as a child)

God bless you all and good luck -
C. (feel free to e-mail me if you want to talk more!)

If he doesn't want to seek outside help & you're getting so frustrated you want to give up, what's left but for one of you to leave? You're very right-your kids deserve to see a normal relationship & it sounds like you don't have that right now. My aunt & uncle divorced when I was younger & they lived in the same neighborhood. My cousins would go from one house (not apartment, whole house) to the other for half of the week at a time. Yes, it was a pain to have their folks in 2 houses but they were happier apart & the kids had both of them close.
Does your hubby know you're ready to leave? There's no sense in all of you moving together if you're considering not staying with him.
Now, what have you done to fix yourself? I've read responses on here that you're supposed to make yourself more attractive, make him the meals he wants, do what he wants... but what have you done to fix yourself for yourself? When you're home are you in sweats & feeling sexy or feeling dumpy? Do you throw some eyeliner or lipstick on every day just to be a bit more feminine? Do you work out or take time to exercise every day? Are you doing things YOU want to do, or things your kids want you to do & things hubby wants you to do? I've noticed that when I throw on some eyeliner & a pair of jeans instead of my sweats I feel more like a woman & less like a frumpy mom. Working out gets out my frustration (my SIL said she does kickboxing & imagines punching whoever is making her mad at the time-when she's done she's not mad at them & has gotten in a great workout!), makes me feel better health wise & about myself. Stop working so hard to be what you think he wants you to be & start working on what YOU want you to be. Maybe you changing will help him to see that you can do just fine without him & will make him work harder to keep you around-assuming you want him to keep you around.
Best of luck to you!!

Hi M.,

I have been thinking about your post almost non-stop since I read it, and feel the pressing need to respond. I have been through an extremely similar situation and wanted to offer my experience and advice.

Living with a husband that was not happy enough with me was heartbreaking, and I am so sad to see someone else going through it. At the time I did not want to miss out on any part of my children's lives, and I did not want to go through being a single mom or have to work through dating or working on any more relationships. If I was going to have to work at a relationship, why not stay with their dad? Now I know the answer. Because it is possible to be happy. I did not have to live with such heartache forever. My kids did not have to grow up with such a poor example of what a relationship and a marriage should be like.

That being said, going through a divorce was extremely heartbreaking, for about two years for me. Although I am now very happily married to another man who is my best friend and partner in life, there is one major thing I wish I had done differently then, for the sake of my kids, that may have prevented a divorce, which is my advice to you: Separate. Now. Before it's too late.

When I had finally had enough heartache, I separated from my kids' dad. I wish I had done it earlier. Instead, I waited until it was simply too late for me. He had been completely unresponsive to counseling or any other types of marital assistance when I really needed him to care. But, when we separated, he finally saw what he was losing. He finally fought, when I had no fight or love left.

Separation is a way to see what it would be like being divorced, while still having the ability to get back together and make it work if you find that you were both happier together. It is difficult, especially financially, and it is eye-opening. You are able to see how well you will each handle life on your own. Beware that after having a family for so long, loneliness is to be expected and takes some time to get over - but you will.

Hopefully this will be exactly what your husband needs to see what he would have to miss out on, before it's out of his reach forever. Hopefully this will jar him from this limbo that he's been in and help him appreciate what he has in his life. He cannot have his cake and eat it, too. Marriage is a two-way street and he has to pull his weight to make it work. It's time for him to realize this. If he doesn't, you will be much better off without him.

Please remember that whether separated or divorced, you do not have to 'lose' your kids during the time that they are not with you. You can call them and talk to them every day and be an active part of their lives all the time. Both parents can be involved in their schooling and participate in field trips and other school or religious functions. Both parents should regularly communicate with their kids and know their friends and their interests. Both parents should always be civil toward each other and work together to co-parent their children. That is what your kids need. They do not need to be in a home where a loveless marriage is the example they see for their future marriage. Do you want any one of your kids to end up in a relationship like that? Show them that is not acceptable. You can be happy. You both deserve to be happy. I am now, and I think everyone should be able to be this happy.

Good luck, and feel free to contact me at any time as you go through this tremendous step in your life.

M.,

As a Mom who struggled with "to stay or not to stay" I do admit it's a tough decision. You've been to marriage counseling & now it sounds like he's just given up. You can't do that work for him. However, you can take care of YOU. Why don't you go to therapy if he won't go? And what are you doing to self care? Exercise, journaling, massage...
it's great to be a wonderful Mom...and all Mom's need self care to be able to give back.

I so disagree that if you can be "cordial" to one another, you should stay. Are these women saying that because that's what they did, or their church/religion says that's what they have to do? What about the long term consequences of children seeing very unhappy Mom/Dad together to keep the family together? There are many reports of grown children saying they felt so guilty when their parents divorced after they left home & realized they only stayed together for them. And what I feel is key in your post is that you do talk with him. And he does care about your children. That is huge. Keep talking. Go to therapy, then come home & talk with him about what you learned. Stay open, stay curious about how you can make this tough situation work.

I did it. My ex & I talked about how we would always put our son first & we have. We agreed not to talk bad about the other to our son(if I'm upset with him, I'll call a girlfriend!) & that we would stay close so he can go back & forth with no stress. We've done it! Sure it took alot of work & ofcourse I wished that we could have worked it out...
however 4 yrs later I still believe we did the right thing.
It takes being respectful to one another & looking out for your childrens best interest. We are now with other partners & what is crazy is that I'm thrilled I'm with a man who is playful, spontaneous ( my ex wasn't) and my son gets a bonus adult who has a wonderful influence in his life. I do believe it takes a village to raise a child! And my ex has a wonderful woman & family that loves my son as well. You CAN make divorce work. It doesn't have to be a dirty word. Once we made the decision to separate, we both sat down with our son & told him that sometimes for adults to stay friends, they can't live together. However, we would always be family & also that our decision wasn't anything bad he did.

After a lot of counseling (together & apart) & we both realized that divorce was the best option, we chose a mediator that we both liked & worked with. No lawyers creating stress when we worked it out. I did councel with a lawyer, just to know my rights & what I could ask for. But the marriage didn't end with resentment & anger.

That's my experience. I could go on & on...you may email me if you'd like to talk more.

I agree that moving around isn't going to "fix" anything.
You will just have a different enviornment with the same problems. I would also urge you to look at your husband as a person (that's hard to do when you're married, you take things so personally) with his own set of issues. I wonder if he isn't depressed. He sounds like it.

Keep looking within at your issues. Work on YOU. Be curious about M., be gentle with yourself, and be loving & compassionate in how you are honest with this situation.

I wish you the best. I support you as a woman to explore the best for you & your family.

I have no advise for you. But HUGS to you.

Your changes definitely are a good thing. Now where to go from here? Honestly I'm not sure either. Of course it could be best for the children if you guys can at least stay together. But this is not the only thing at stake as you've probably realized. I would just ask you to pray about it. Come up with a plan of what you think you would really like to do, and then ask if that is what God wants for you.

Your in a very tough position. It sounds like your husband was willing to work on your relationship to a point. A lot of time has past now and it will take a lot of work to keep it together. I have found in my own relationship that after you have kids your priorities change. Now your priority is kids and your relationship is the one that gets hit the hardest. I recently came across a book that I feel is good for every relationship and it's call the The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. No matter what relationship your in it is going to take work and sometimes it's a matter of finding out what each others needs are.
If ultimately you both are not happy and you have done all that you could, then separation may be best. Since your biggest concern is how this will effect your kids I strongly recommend that you start family counseling. Work together as a team and make sure your taking the right steps and a counselor can help the two of you make it easier for you and your kids.
My Mom had done this when I was younger and I really felt that it helped her a lot and probably for me too. But she had help and guidance from the counselor. The counselor helped her with statagies when questions or behaviors started coming up. I feel that it really helped me cause it created a less traumatic situation for me and made it easier. When I look back on that time I have no harsh feeling about it and feel that it was the right thing to do.
I hope that helps.
Good luck,
A.

I am a spiritual rather than a religious person, so take whatever is helpful from this response.

A book I read suggested that relationships (whether marriage, friendships, or whatever) end when both people have received all of the gifts possible from each other, i.e., when their soul's purpose has been fulfilled with that person. Where we get ourselves tangled up is when we view the relationship as a success or failure based upon the length of time it lasts rather than the gifts received/lessons learned.

If it's possible to bless your husband on his journey as you continue your journey, perhaps your children will absorb the relaxed and positive way in which you and your husband interact.