Not Sure What to Think About This...... - Ballwin,MO

I think she can see the handwriting on the wall. An unmotivated partner is bad news... She will end up doing all the work at home and at work while he sits on his rear all day and expects to be taken care of. I think she might need to broaden her horizons. This guy is the "safe" option. It's time she sees what else is out there and it is time the boyfriend sees that she is headed for better things.
You may sit her down and tell her this and all it does is make her want to keep seeing the boyfriend... Or it may jolt her into action.

We have good friends...the woman is a very successful scientist with a prestigious, high paying, and demanding job. Her husband is a sweet guy who is a stay at home dad. He has a garage band (plays sometimes at events in town). He sometimes will drive a school bus as a part time job. But most of the time I've known him he spends his time as a SAHD. He drive the kids to their activities, he helps them with homework, and he does almost all of the cooking. He treats his wife wonderfully and is an amazing father. He is involved and kind and a good person/friend. But he is not ambitious. Not at all. But their relationship is golden and they have a wonderful family. Maybe being ambitious is not really all that important for every man in every family and maybe it will work beautifully for them.

this is difficult , at best; if you say too much, she will defend him, and the time she has invested in him, and be even more determined. In a couple, if the two people cannot elevate each other-and the woman is , in particular, the caregiver/provider-there will be problems. I feel like he is using her and living vicariously through her and his perception is that her accomplishments are his, as well. Ask her if she could just give herself a chance to meet someone of her own ilk. Good luck!

M.,

I'm not the mom of a college student, but the former wife of a Lazy Lizard.
Ultimately, nothing my folks could have said to me at the time would have prevented me from marrying him. I hate to say it, but you need to be very subtle in your concern in how you speak to your daughter about him. If she talks about future plans with him, be supportive but be sure to ask "well, what does he think about that?" or "I wonder, how are you two going to afford it?" Just let her think on things a bit.

This is a mistake she will have to figure out for herself. Eventually, when she gets out into 'the real world', she's going to see him for the slacker he is. She's going to get tired of visiting him at mom and dad's house.

FWIW, there is a couple within our family who are pretty much as you describe; she is the breadwinner and works her butt off while he more or less coasts. Now that their eldest (of three) is in college, things have come to a head and she's told him to get his act together. I really wonder, though, if she hadn't been so busy defending him to her own parents if she would have had more 'room' to see him for the lazy lizard he was. She had to choose to believe her assertions herself, to stay with him... if they had backed off a bit and let her come to her own conclusions instead of arguing with her, she might have let him go when there was still time to do so.

ETA: The comment that women are okay as SAHMs while we are persecuting this guy for being lazy... I don't quite buy it. I had a very strong work ethic before I was a SAHM, and that is what keeps my house running. The chores get done each day because I believe it is *my job* to do them. I don't picture a person who has no drive or ambition as an ideal candidate to be a stay at home parent; it is a rough and demanding job. I'm sure the satisfied wives of stay at home dads are satisfied because their husbands are making sure the household is running smoothly and not because they are just grateful to have a warm body in the house.

I will preface this post with a disclaimer and "apology" for offense...but WOW! You and some of the responders below have hit a huge hot button for M..
In this day and age, we seem to believe that everyone deserves a double standard of some sort, and I think that is a disturbing trend, to say the very least. It seems, that everything we all claim to fight for, to defend at every opportunity only applies to "certain" people. We scream at the top of our lungs that if you want to be a "Mom" AND have a career...that is OKAY! But, if you want to find a husband that is happy being the bread-winner and you stay home and nurture and raise your children without the "horrors" of day-care...that, too, is OKAY! It's what we have been striving for, right? So, why then, is it such a tragedy if a young man decides that he wants to be a (gasp) Stay At Home Dad?

Maybe this young man chose your daughter because she compliments his weaknesses? Maybe, his strengths will compliment your daughter's weaknesses? How presumptuous of you and your husband to assume your intelligent, motivated, and dedicated daughter will ever NEED to be taken care of, FINANCIALLY?

Did it ever occur to you that this young man may end up the Father of your grand-children and that your daughter may very well be perfectly capable of providing enough income to support a family (I would think any "man" that did the work to become a veterinarian could)? That she may be J. fine with the idea of "bringing home the bacon" while her supportive spouse treats her like gold and supports her without drama or negative influence, all while teaching their children to "color within the lines"? That she may like the idea of showing her children the importance of getting a good education while her spouse teaches them to "do laundry"?

Why should a man be called a "Lazy Lizard" when a woman would be called a "Dedicated Mother" that followed her "calling"? And your post comes down to J. that...presumptuous double standards that dis-credit your brilliant, adult daughter's decisions for her own life. If they have been together for three years, she obviously finds something in this young man that she appreciates. Respect that. If it turns out that it isn't what she's looking for or needs to make the best future for herself, she'll end it. If not, it will always and forever fall under the category of "None of Your Business." Let your smart, ambitious daughter live her OWN life. And love her unconditionally while she does J. that.

As hard as this is going to be, leave it alone! She knows what he's like, she's embarrassed about it. So that's good. The more you criticize him, the more loyal she will be. She's a driven and accomplished young woman, and she is smart. She sees this. She may be the caretaker type, unwilling to cast aside a needy human - it may or may not be the same emotion that makes her want to help helpless animals. So the harder you push, the more you drive her to him. She may also be dating him because he's easy! He's not driven like she is, he's always available when she's done studying, he's not high maintenance. She may like the companionship especially knowing she doesn't have to do much to hold on to him right now. With her studies and her workload, the old and familiar may just be easier for the time being.

But she's not slacking in her studies, she's not imitating him by lazing around the house - just the opposite. So I think that's a good sign.

Sometimes people don't want to have their parents say "I told you so" - I dated a guy in high school that my parents didn't like because a) I had low self-esteem and he paid attention to me, treating me well, b) he was cool because he was in a band, c) my parents (especially my mother) didn't like him and I didn't want her to be right about this. So I stuck it out just so I didn't have to face her.

The best thing you can do is be a loving and supportive parent, and to continue to praise her for all she accomplishes. Focus on the drive that got her a job where there were no openings. Praise her good grades. She's got a lot of school ahead of her if she's 19 and wants to be a vet.

Do not be mean to the boyfriend - be polite and then some. Do not engage with the boy's parents - they have no backbone or they think they are helping their kids, but you will get nowhere if you critique their parenting. They may even take it out on your daughter, saying something along the lines of, "Well I know your parents don't approve of our methods, but you don't agree with them, do you?" She will have no choice but to stick around and back him (and them) up.

I don't know why you think her future husband will have to provide for her financially - she's obviously going to be quite capable in that area! I think, in time, her career objectives will be matched by her maturity and confidence, and she will see for herself that this guy will hold her back. She's got quite a few more years, and he has time to either find a skill or a profession, get a fire in his belly, or be left behind by her.

You call her a grown woman, and legally she is, and I know some people in your family have gotten married at that age. But she's still young in many ways, and inexperienced. If she weren't still young, you wouldn't be so worried about exerting more control and influence over her.

As she spends a few more years in school, looks at money (jobs, school loans, whatever), and learns to live on a budget, she will see that she's going to have to pay the freight on this boyfriend. He will become more diminished in his own eyes as her education increases, and if he doesn't straighten up, she'll move on. She'll be stronger for it if she learns that she can have a career and depend on herself financially, and not need a man to pay the bills. That's entirely different from wanting to pay the man's bills!

Let it run its course. So many high school romances don't survive college. Don't panic. Let her grow up on her own, with your support. If you belittle her choices, it will undermine her self-confidence and her willingness to move on to a life with no man or with another man.

The hardest thing for you and your husband will be to hold back and stop worrying. But it's the most important thing you can do to enable her to move in the right direction.

You need to be "Switzerland" and stay neutral. The only time you can comment or make an observation is IF she asks for your opinion. .

She sounds incredibly bright, and I am sure this summer it is becoming very obvious, this guy is not going to change. She is working so so hard. She is loving what she is doing.

As a family especially when BF is not around, spend a lot of time talking about what is going on at her work. Be very interested. Enthusiasm for what she is experiencing. Ask questions, tell her how excited you are about this experience.

Do not mention BF.. I am going to guess, he will not be as enthusiastic about her successes, since he is realizing he cannot compete, with her passion.

Is this University far from home? What happens while she is in school? Does BF go to visit? Is there an internship she is working towards.. maybe something far away so that she is not always coming home to BF? Many Universities will pay for the internship. This way she can experience being away.

Does he go and see her, stay with her at school? How does he do around her school friends? Who pays for dates?

Are you all as a family planning an end of summer vacation away?

This relationship has to be left alone. If anyone is perceived as trying to interfere, it could cause her to feel like she needs to stand up for him.

Many adults need to just experience the results of their choices. This way SHE has the ownership. Your job is to be there for support not to interfere.

I agree with Kozmoma 100%.

I also think there is something going on with young males in this country. The are beat down at every point in life it seems to me. They drop out of school much more frequently than girls do (which is more 'girl-friendly" to start with imho). The "manly" non-cerebral jobs of yesteryear are gone overseas. So what ARE these guys supposed to do? The guys who are great with technology are not always the most social. Good for him getting his EMT certification.

I've also read that testosterone levels are lower at increasingly younger ages. Men need testosterone for drive.

The above comments notwithstanding, I think you need to trust your daughter and her judgment. I would speak my peace with her on the issue ONE TIME, and then let it go. It sounds like she has a great head on her shoulders and will figure things out for herself.

And besides, isn't this how we raised our girls in this country? Not to depend on a man? Well, she's doing that! Good for her! If she wants him along for the ride that's her choice.

JMO.

The good news here is that it sounds like you don't need to worry about someone "taking care of" your daughter's finances. She seems quite capable of providing for herself. Most people, sooner or later, realize when their partner isn't pulling their weight and then move on.

(I am not a mom of older teens, but I do have a younger brother (now 25) who needed a swift kick in the pants to get in gear and make something of himself.)

ETA: There is a big difference between a woman who chooses to be a SAHM, yet has proven to have a strong work ethic (which is necessary to be a GOOD SAHM) and someone who is just lazy. Laziness is NEVER acceptable. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with SAHDs. My best friend is an OB/Gyn and her husband has been home with their kids for the past 3 years. But before that, he was working outside the home too, and he is also enrolled in a nursing program right now. Now THAT is a man!

The more you harp on his laziness - the more you are going to draw her to him...she will defend him.

You cannot control him. And you cannot control her. So what can you do? Tell her that you personally don't like her choice in men - but it's HER choice - if she wants to be the primary bread winner in their relationship - should it go further - and you'll be there to support her.

When he's over - you can ask questions like - do you plan on having a landscaping business? Or are you going to be an EMT? Yes, snotty and snarky - but hey - you want to get your point across, right? Keep in mind - you do this? You'll be pushing her towards him too....

His parents are obviously crutches and can't let go of their children. They didn't PARENT them and prepare them for the world. You CANNOT change that or them.

Bottom line? It's NOT your choice. You cannot choose who your daughter falls in love with. You stated yourself - she is a grown W. - so start treating her like one. Allow her to make mistakes. Do NOT tell her "I told you so" when it all comes crashing down around her. Let her LIVE HER LIFE. BACK OFF mama....do you really want to lose/alienate your daughter over this?

While you have every right to be concerned for your daughter as her mother, you don't have the right to interfere in her relationship. The two of them are still so very young and at the very beginning of their lives. You're making a lot of assumptions about their relationship and about this man-boy which may not even be accurate.

At 20 years old, I doubt this young man is even thinking about settling down and supporting a spouse and family because he doesn't have to. His parents are allowing it because they can. You see it as him being lazy and they see it as helping support their adult children while they're able to, until their children want or need to get out on their own.

I guess I don't see why you're so anxious for this young man to appear to be highly driven and what that would look like to you. Are you expecting that he should be living in his own apartment by now? That he should be fully supporting himself AND your daughter? What is it about him that really has you so anxious and critical?

Is this really about your daughter and being anxious that she's now finally old enough to make her own choices and that they might not be the choices you would make? Trust her. When you criticize the choice in partner she's made you're also criticizing her.

Your daughter is a smart girl and she'll make her own choices.
I once had a boyfriend who was like that.
Smart, nice person to be with, fun on a date - he didn't have an ambitious bone in his body.
I didn't marry him - he and his mother were devastated.
(Actually I still exchange Christmas cards with his Mom.)
He married someone else, had 2 boys (they just finished up college) and I just heard he's getting divorced and he's on disability due to a back problem.
He's never held onto any job for more than 3 or 4 years.
He was a nice guy but definitely not marriage material.
If your daughter has a 'get up and go' personality, then maybe she should pursue jobs away from her home town and go see the world (and meet other people) while the boyfriend sits home like a lump.

Stay out of it. Your daughter is a grown woman who will figure it out on her own. My daughters are 31-25 and they all have a pretty good read on guys. They have dated a couple not so great ones and although it's hard I've kept my mouth shut.

There's nothing you can do, he isn't abusive or causing her any harm so you stay out of it.

If she's half as smart as you claim then she can see the writing on the wall, and she has decided, for the time being, that he is the one she wants.

I've seen many driven woman with men who are less driven and they do great together because they compliment one another. Same could be true for some driven men and less then driven woman.

They are young, with some time before them. Maybe BF just decided to enjoy one last summer before he puts his skills to work, maybe he likes to be a little more laid back, who knows.

While you are entitled to an opinion, that's all you can have. Say your piece and move on. Her life, not yours.

She'll outgrow him, give her time.

Let the relationship run its course... Unless that course is leading to the altar next week, then you might have some talks with your daughter ;)

I think he is still young and has been raised differently. He will have to step up to the plate eventually. If they were engaged you might worry more about his future plans, goals, career path. But they have time yet. She may move on from him, or he may slowly "blossom" and catch up with her.

My husband was several years behind me in graduating school, figuring out what he wanted to do and taking steps to make it happen. 7 years in fact. We both had to complete grad programs for our careers and I was a full 7 years into my career when he completed school and got his first "career" job. We were raised totally differently. I come come from a family of 6 kids and we were completely financially independent by college graduation in my family. My husband, it was him and his brother, and there was no urgency. But he is a great guy, good work ethic, loving, all that good stuff.

Your daughters situation sounds a lot like one of my sisters- who is an identical twin also, coincidentally. Total overachiever. No time for boyfriends in High School, but in college found a real sweet, soft spoken, shy, gorgeous BF who ADORES her. Never had a job in his life til after college graduation. There was no financial urgency for him. He was an only child, parents wanted to take care of him and have him focus on school. His first job after college was an unpaid internship in the field he wanted, and no joke, a part time paying job at a hot dog stand at the swap meet. Bless his heart. Anyway. He eventually turned the internship into a paying g gig and he is well on his way, I'd say he is now age appropriately employed for his stage of life. Meanwhile my sister has earned a masters degree and is debating a doctoral degree... But they are a great couple and are getting married in a couple weeks actually! Its been fun to watch their evolution as a couple. It just takes a lot of these guys some time.

Just because your daughters boyfriend is having a lazy summer and still on the parents payroll doesn't mean he won't eventually come around. The fact that he did all the EMT training and all that is a good sign. I think in general girls are usually ahead of the curve on figuring out what they want to do and going for it.

I wonder if you would feel more comfortable if he were enrolled in a university? I know that simple divide between "4 year college folks" and those who choose other paths is a hard hump to get over if you are a family who expects university degrees to be the starting point (as mine is also). But there are many routes to success.

Ouch Mom, know it hurts but it is her life. You have led her to understand what is important, but now she has to learn on her own. Ouch

I know many smart women who would do backflips to find a guy who is happy to stay at home and be a SAH-Dad! A smart woman who wants a great career AND wants kids...often hopes to find a guy who will be happy to chip in at home.

Also, not that it's anyone's business, but maybe this boy's family has money for him? Trust Fund, etc? He might know what's coming, and you don't. (Trust Fund does not excuse bad-attitude-laziness, but it can result in freedom to pursue things in life other than a "job to pay the bills".)

1) Major SAHD potential even if

1.5) he didn't just complete a certification that will qualify him for paramedic/fire training (which, in our area is work 2 days a week & get paid 65k-150k per year with amazing benefits). But he DID just complete his EMT. Which pays jack, and as lousy hours, but it paves the way toward making the contacts and having the skills to go paramedic. Which is a solid job.

2) My exHusband is Smart, Ambitious... All the things you say you want for your daughter,., And after working 120 hours a week, making 250k as of last year (started out making 40k when we married)... Had spent less than 1 MONTH of time with his son, caused 10s of thousands of dollars in property damage (temper temper) while at home... And I finall divorced him after he fractured my skull. Oh. Because he's so smart, and well off... He also completely screwed me in the divorce (put money off shore, hired snazzy lawyers). I had to borrow 40k from my parents in order to fight for even partial custody of our son. Who he doesn't want. He just makes enoufh to pay for 12 hours of childcare a day, so sticks him in child care so I don't get to have him in my life 6months a year.

= that "treats her like gold" comment? Seriously evaluate that. It's more precious than you can possibly imagine. Not only for her, but my mom has been in the hospital with cardiac issues over the abuses her grandchild has suffered. The PAIN caused is unimaginable when someone DOESN'T treat you like gold. And those guys are rare rare rare.

I have three girlfriends that are the main breadwinners in their relationships and they couldn't care less that their husbands make less or don't hold traditional jobs. They are content to let dad stay home with the kids while they are out working their 6 figure jobs, which they love. These women did not want to sacrifice their careers for marriage or family and luckily found men that weren't threatened by a female breadwinner.

It's not a situation that I would want, but my friends are happy and that makes me happy.

I know it's hard, but it's really not your business. This is your daughter's life and all you can do at this point is offer your opinion IF YOU ARE ASKED, and support her regardless of what happens.

Some people are meant to stay at home and some aren't. I have a friend who has her MBA and makes a good salary working for a nearby tribe as a social worker. Her hubby loves tinkering with cars and has a shop at the back of their land.

He stayed home with the kids while she worked. She said that she realized going in that she loved to work, helping families learn skills and work out their issues just fill her to overflowing. She loves her work.

She said she knew her hubby would be the one who enjoyed staying at home with the kids. He works on cars too but his main thing was taking care of the kiddo's.

So just because you think he's lazy doesn't mean he doesn't have a purpose...maybe he's SAHD material. Maybe he hasn't found a career that lights his heart too.

I dated lazy lizards or guys who weren't lazy necessarily but not exactly going anywhere in life. I'm sure it bothers her as it bothered me. My parents said things about it but didn't try to break us up. I'd just keep giving her food for thought. Gently remind her that life with a guy with no ambition can be hard And something my my said always stuck with me - money doesn't buy happiness but it makes things easier. There's a difference too between a guy who picks a career that doesn't pay well at all but he works hard and a guy who cant even pick a career... Maybe point that out softly.

Maybe you married your college sweetheart, but yes, you are jumping the gun, a lot.

Once your kids are "adults," you get to give them brief advice, maybe once or twice. It could be something like: "Wow, his only job at 20 is mowing his parents' lawn? Okaaayyyy. I hope he becomes more industrious than that."

After you make your comments, you have to back off, and let your daughter choose her boyfriends, and learn from her mistakes. She probably won't marry the guy, you need to give her a little credit for common sense.

p.s. He's only 20, and 20 year old guys are usually less mature than their female counterparts. Give him a little bit of a break. He did finish his EMT training.

Okay so hopefully, your DAUGHTER realizes.... that, SHE does not need a lazy-bum boyfriend... and that SHE... aspires to have a partner, that is on her same... level/goals/motivations etc.

She is SO young. A woman, does NOT have to marry the first boyfriend she has.

Your daughter, needs to be her OWN person. And to discover life and all her possibilities for life. She seems very driven and smart and independent.
THUS she has to, learn... and grow.... in HER own way, without someone dragging her down.

AGAIN, a woman, does NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT... have to marry the first Boyfriend she has. Nor stay with him.
She is SOOOOOOOOOO young, to be confined that way.
She needs to CHOOSE, the type of man, SHE wants.
It is not just about love and puppy love and this is my first, etc.
It is about, becoming, the person you are.... and KNOWING that.

When I was her age, I had a long term Boyfriend. And sure I loved him and everything and we got along, he was a nice guy etc. and he wanted to get married.
BUT I knew, within myself... that I did not want to be with him ALL my life.
And I broke up with him.
Because, I knew myself, AND what I wanted and that I wanted other things and paths, in life. MY life.
And it did not... mesh, with the Boyfriend I had.
There comes a time... when a young girl/woman, has to know.... if she is just with a guy because she just is with him and its just dandy... or if, she wants more out of life and knows... what type of partner they want/need/will mesh with.

No person, has to marry the first guy they are with.
I am NOT knocking you or your family per marrying your high-school sweethearts. But, it is not for all women.
It was not for me.
I felt, limited, and thus, broke up with my first Boyfriend. Even if we were together for a long time. I matured and grew more... and outgrew... that relationship and guy.
I KNEW that.
So, hopefully your daughter, will be self-aware.... and SHE decides, about that guy and the relationship. So she is not "stuck"... with it or him.
She seems to have outgrown, him.
Like an ill fitting shoe.
Even if that ol' shoe is comfy.

Just because that guy may ask your Daughter to get married... it does NOT NOT NOT mean, she "has" to.
SHE makes up her own mind.
And hopefully it is not based on just habit and "well we were together for so long..." type of thing.

Your daughter, NEEDS to, realize... that there is more to life.
But if she wants a lazy-bum boyfriend like that who does not even add or complement her life... then that is her own poor choice.
It is not only about love.
This is not the only love, a girl will have.
SHE needs to pick and choose... the type of guy that she wants.

I'm late answering, but I can't believe that two people who are dating don't talk about long term goals. Where does boyfriend see himself in 10 years, in 20 years? Where does your daughter see boyfriend in 10 or 20 years? If she were my daughter, I would advise her to talk to him about those things & to tell him that she cannot be a partner to someone who appears to have no drive to be totally independent.

I think your going to have to find a way to let this go. It's her choice! You can tell her your opinion nicely but don't nag her about it. She knows what he does, she knows what he says his plans are, she knows what she (thinks) she wants, and it may not be what you want. She may end up making the biggest mistake of her life by marrying him and yet you can do nothing about it. If you make her miserable about it she will push you away - not him.

Sorry and I am not looking forward to my kids getting to this age as I know they will make decisions that I don't want them to make and I am sure it's going to be really hard ugggg

Good luck :) and hopefully she will decide to dump his lazy butt or he decides he wants to grow up.

There's probably not much you can or should do at this point, but if you start hearing musings of engagement or marriage, very kindly make sure that she considers his lack of motivation and really considers whether or not she can be happy with a man like that.

Some women are fine being the bread winner and having a stay-at-home hubby. If both parties agree, then that's fine. No different than a woman being a stay-at-home in my book. But if she doesn't think she can happily accept that from her husband, then she needs to very carefully consider any marriage proposal.

Pretty much, if it's bothering her now, she is not the type of woman who could be happy in that sort of marriage and she might want to consider nipping the relationship in the bud now. No point continuing on when there is no future.