Ugh. I need some advice (again) on how to deal with a neighbor issue.
Problems have been ongoing since we moved here 2 years ago. All our kids are the same age.
So, I have described in past posts that the neighbor kids are not very well behaved. I no longer want the kids to play together because there is always a problem (with both the kids and the neighbor lady).
So a few weeks ago, there was an issue where the neighbor girl kept entering our backyard, uninvited, playing a spying game on my kids, who kept telling them to buzz off. Eventually my daughter opened the gate, it ran over the kids toe, the kid ran home crying. The mom sent me a long angry text hours later. She seemed mostly upset that my daughter did not help her daughter home or feel bad about hurting her toe. Long story short, I said the girls needed to have a break from each other because they had so many issues.
So since then, the kids have not played together and it has been so peaceful here and I have loved it. However there have been a few small issues where my kids will get off the bus and their daughter will yell things at my daughter or make rude faces or say that her coach is going to beat her up for hurting her toe. And I have told my kids to ignore...just dont talk unless they want to say something nice. Well today the mom came over and said that my daughter wrote mean things all over the sidewalk about her daughter. (and indeed, there were some very inappropriate things on there). My daughter of course will be disciplined. But I am not sure where to go from here. Talking to my neighbor did not go well. I dont want really for the kids to be friends...it is too hard, too many problems. And I would rather not have anything to do with the lady either. She is very hard to deal with...I would say she is not a reasonable person. But I also do not want this animosity, it sucks. I also feel like all the blame is being pinned on my kid when it really has been both of them bouncing off each other. I don't know...just any advice on how to handle this whole stupid mess.
Thanks! It is so much easier to tackle problems like this with some outside perspective and a good night's sleep. Like I said, talking to the neighbor yesterday did not go well. She brought her other kids which made it really hard to have any sort of discussion, meanwhile mine were at school (they have different school schedules) so it was very one-sided with accusations flying from her about all sorts of issues. The good thing is that I did not say anything I regretted, I simply told her I agreed that the writing on the sidewalk was inappropriate, I wasn't sure if it was my daughter that did it but I would talk to my kids and it would be scrubbed off the sidewalk and that we should keep the kids apart at this point. (it ended with her stomping away going on about how my MIL threatened her kids which is such as bizarre statement and then telling her kids sadly that maybe they will have to move since we are such bad neighbors! Nice. ) Then while my kids scrubbed the sidewalk she rolled up and yelled at them never to enter her yard again, her daughter sat there laughing and taking pictures of the kids while they scrubbed the sidewalk. Freaking crazy. They are just such difficult people. Anyway, the kids (because it was both my son and daughter that admitted to it) wrote apology notes and we just left them on the porch because I really do not want to any "opportunity" to get into it with them. I can tell the kids feel bad about what they did. We have talked about not going in their yard at all (which they already were not allowed to do but I made it clear that there can be no variance at all due to their mom telling them to stay out). We have talked about ignoring any taunting, photo-taking, spying, and the other passive aggressive behaviors but coming inside immediately if their kids come over or if there are any threats. We have talked about not speaking at all unless it is hello (and leave it at that) and not doing anything to bother them- just stay away! They are on a year round schedule and on different tracks so will only be on the bus with these kids a few weeks each year and that will not be for several months and will not be in the same classes or recess schedules. If the mom comes over again, I will take your advice on reminding her that they have been disciplined, apologized and are being separated so the issue has been handled, and send her on her way. I would hope that would be the end of it but that is what I say every 3 weeks... she always seems to find something to get worked up about even if we have not seen them in weeks. i think she just wants a confrontation.
**added**
Its been a month or 2 and things are a lot better. My kids made apology notes for her kids for their behavior. Then her kids did the same. I had my kids take a break from them since they were banned from their yard and told them that it was great that they apologized but they needed some time apart since there have been so many problems. I did delete the lady from FB after she screamed at my kids- it was a last straw for me. I am glad I did. It took me away from seeing her constant drama and I think it made it clear to her that I was no longer a person she could contact for favors. I have kept my kids very busy this summer and now playing with the neighbors is not really an option they think of often. They will play outside together maybe once a week at most for short periods of time and there has been no fighting - I think the kids realized that fighting caused such an issue so they have been on their best behavior. I feel like as parents we have just gone our seperate ways and do not need to socialize so that is great for me. I am glad that the kids can be together without there being animosity but that I do not have to be involved with her any more.
I agree with AKmom - wash the chalk off the sidewalk and then just ignore them. Once they realize that they aren't going to get a reaction, the fun is gone and they will move on. I wouldn't try talking to the mom again for anything. I suggest they ignore any threats the same way they ignore anything else these folks say.
I think that you should have your daughter write an apology note to the neighbor child, in addition to disciplining her. She should not have written those things and, frankly, if you hurt someone you need to apologize for that too, even if hurting them was an accident - it sounds like that didn't happen after the toe incident.
And then, after a little time has gone by, maybe you can take over a peace offering (cookies?) to the mom without kids present and simply say that it's clear that your kids, while both good kids, don't bring out the best in each other and although they shouldn't spend time together for this reason, you hope that the adults can be neighborly. And then you model that to your kids (which means no saying anything bad about the neighbor mom or child) so they can learn how to be neighborly even to someone with whom you are not friends.
And if she starts rehashing everything again or complaining about your child when you go over, just keep repeating - yes, it's really too bad that the kids just don't click/don't bring out the best in each other - until she gets it out of her system. Whatever you do, don't get into a blame game.
Good luck
You can't change your neighbors' behavior, but you can do things on your end.
I would start by having your daughter write an apology note. Apologize for writing mean things on the sidewalk and apologize for hurting her toe. I would say something to the mom like, "I realize it's just not going to work out for our kids to be friends, but daughter wants to let your daughter know how sorry she is" and hand over the note.
At the very least, this can hopefully help to keep things civil.
If the kid had not been in your yard uninvited, and had left when she was told to go away, she wouldn't have gotten her foot hit with the gate.
You're planning to discipline your daughter for her rude graffiti, and I would suggest that the discipline take the form of scrubbing it off.
Other than that, just keep the kids away from each other.
Maybe you can look at it this way: Your daughter is to blame as well. If she wrote stuff all over the sidewalk, she's no innocent shrinking violet. Just own up to the other mom that your daughter is to blame as well, that the girls are just not getting along right now, and that you think the girls should just take a break from each other for a couple of months to cool down and grow up a little.
If you just make it like the girls are taking a break from each other because they are both behaving badly, you and the other mom can get along and it won't seem like this is permanent and that you have to live in animosity with your neighbors.
Kids do change and mature a lot month to month, and it's quite possible that they can play together again in the future.
I agree with some type of peace offering. Send some cookies, cupcakes, etc with an apology note...deliver it with your daughter when you know both the mother and daughter are available.
Let them know that you're sorry for all of the problems, her toe, etc and let them know that you would like to put an end to all of the problems.
That ought to do it. I know it's hard but someone has to take the first step and it's not going to be them.
Some people think their kids can do no wrong, and if this lady is one of those then nothing you do will help because she will always think of her kids as angles and yours are the bad guys. Make your kids wash the chalk off, and leave it at that. If her kids show up in your yard again march them straight home. If they yell or taunt ignoring is best, but if they continue to make threats talk to the mom once again.
Talk to the mom without the kids. Tell her that while in theory the kids should be fast friends due to proximity and age, it appears they have grown apart and need their space. They can still be good neighbors without being fast friends. If the two of you are on the same page, it will be easier to get the kids on it with you. If you can do that, all of you should get together for an after school snack (extend the olive branch by having snack ready on your porch when they get off the bus) and have a chat.
Explain to all the kids that you moms have come to the realization that right now you are all best as good neighbors rather than playmates or good friends. Explain what "good neighbors" or "good citizens" mean...no mean words written or spoken, kindness, and politeness. In the future, if this changes, good neighborly behavior should still be the order of the day (ring the doorbell or telephone before coming over...don't assume it is ok).
Make it a point to say "Good morning Sue and Suzy" or "Good Afternoon" when you see each other so you are modeling the behavior you expect from your children. Be sure to correct anything less than civil behavior.
Ignore the other mom. Her daughter is playing the victim and her mom is jumping into the protector role. Tell your daughter to knock it off and stop doing things to get to the other girl. Explain that she's just not going to be a nice friend so she's better off staying away.
Make your daughter scrub the inappropriate words of the sidewalk. Tell her to never do that again, or say anything to this girl. Tell the neighbor lady and the girl that the relationship is overwith. Tell them you don't want to talk to them, and don't want them to talk to you or your children. If her daughter shows up in your hard or is harassing your kids, call the police.
Put a lock on the gate and then take the advice of the other moms.
I would have your child clean up the graffiti but I hope the discipline does not stop there. She needs to understand that what she did was very wrong, frankly, and just cleaning up chalk isn't going to make that impression. I'd have her lose some privilege she truly values--you know best what that would be--and I'd have her lose it for a substantial enough time that she feels the loss and the seriousness of what she did. I would also have her write a letter of apology to the family (simple and short) so that she and this girl do not have to come face to face, but she does learn how to make a sincere apology. I'm not saying she's a bad kid, so please don't get that impression! I'm saying that she must take full responsibility here -- the other girl is a problem for sure, and does stuff she shouldn't, but your daughter did something that's utterly wrong -- and if your child says "she's as bad, she pushed me to do it by being mean to me," that is no excuse for her own behavior. This is a huge learning opportunity for your child.
Then continue with your very wise tactic of having your child utterly ignore this other girl. You mention that the other girl yells rude things when your kids get off the bus -- does this girl go to their school or not? If she does, I would bet that this battle goes on there as well. I'd be glad it's summer and I'd also ensure that this girl is not in any classes with your kids next year, if that's a possibility at all. Many schools let parents write letters to the main office identifying kids who should or should not be placed with their own children. The schools don't have to honor that, but some truly do (ours would, if you explained that there are serious issues at home between the kids).
As for the mom, once the letter of apology goes over there, I would just keep avoiding her. If she persists in talking to you after your child is disciplined and has apologized, and if she keeps on harping on you when you see her - then she's an adult bully and you may need to simply tell her, "My child has been seriously disciplined and told to ignore your child so that they do not 'get into it' with each other. It's best if they have a very real break and don't talk until they both are more mature. We'll go our way and you go yours and maybe in several years the girls can be better neighbors but we will give them a big breathing space." I would hope she'd understand that "go your way, we'll go ours" means the adults, too.
I haven't read all your responses so sorry if I'm repeating. I'd be "too busy" for them. I'd have some things in my back pocket that can be done quickly as soon as they seem to be venturing into your yard or coming around.
Lots of things can take you out of the house on short notice. Find out about your area and surrounding towns - find some new parks to bring the kids to, do you have conservation areas with walking/hiking paths? As soon as you see the other kids come by, say "we were just on our way out, we can't play now!" then take the kids to a new park or for a hike.
I know it's certainly not ideal that you leave your own home to avoid them, but clearly the other family is just fine with a confrontational neighborhood - which would drive me nuts, personally. And you get to do some exploring with the kids....
You won't have any reason to speak for an extended time and soon you won't know each other anymore.
