More School Incidents

My daughter was in a class of 15 month - 28 month olds, and her classroom ratio was 2:8. However, I will say that one of the teachers would frequently be out getting materials, using the restroom, etc. I think by law they can have 1:7 or 1:8. As my daughter has aged, it has been really hard to find anywhere with ratios at 3 and 4 yrs old that aren't as much as 2:18 or even 2:20. I wish we could get the 1:8 or 2:8 ratios for longer.

While that does sound like very common stuff for an 18 month old, that's a lot of incident reports. In 2 1/2 hrs, I don't think I've had to sign 7 incident reports. Seems like a lot.

Really? Again with this? DD got hurt every other day at that age. It sounds like your son is accident prone, as was my DD. It's normal, and it would STILL happen in your care, right under your nose, and it most definitely will happen if you move your child somewhere else.

I understand being worried, but your expectations are completely unrealistic and just because it's "Montessori" doesn't mean the kids aren't going to get hurt & have accidents.

At this point, I think you're not ready to have your child in a daycare setting, since I don't think you'll be happy with ANY care that receives other than your own. You are looking for everything wrong with this place, and I'm sure you'll get what you want.

I guess I'm not understanding why keep posting about this place... it's clear it doesn't meet your standards. You have 2 options - pull him out & keep him at home, or change centers, with the expectation that your child is at a clumsy age & will probably still get hurt from time to time.

IMO, he doesn't need to be in that setting at his age, and I'm not sure what benefit using a Montessori has at that age. He just needs to learn basics at this age, such as sharing, waiting your turn, interacting with others, etc. You can accomplish the same thing with play dates/ play groups, mommy & me classes, going to the park, etc., and just interacting at home, and not have to worry about him getting hurt or spending money unnecessarily.

Technically, in your state, the ratio for 18 month olds is 1 teacher to every 9 children. Also, I don't consider the biting incidents as an "accident", it's a normal part of behavior for kids that age & is to be expected. There has yet to be an "accident" where your son has been gravely injured.

ETA - to the poster after me that called me "harsh", it's called being honest. I have been there & done that with daycare & preschool settings & in my own experiences, there is nothing unusual or suspect going on here. Sorry if my matter of fact tone & honesty doesn't fit in your unicorns & rainbows world. Geez.

Here's what ya do.

Pull him from school, wrap him in bubble wrap till he's 18 (doubt he'll let you do it after that) and leave him with the nanny all day. Be sure to homeschool him too to keep him from getting any bumps, scratches or bruises.

MK, honey, please move your kids. Sigh...

Both my kids attended daycare and/or preschool. We lived in different places, so I've seen several different centers. NONE of our places were ever chaotic. My kids were rough and tumble boys and didn't get 7 incident reports in two years, much less 7 weeks. I NEVER dealt with a quarter of what you are dealing with. The school administrator is full of bull, and she's feeding you a line.

You need to let go of this fixation on "Montessori" right now in your child's life. They are supposed to play. There is really no "Montessori" to it right now. When a business promises you something and doesn't deliver, you take your business elsewhere. They promised a small teacher to student ratio - they are ignoring what they promised and lying to your face about providing it. They DON'T have proper controls in place, they have have a terrible drop off system, and the teachers don't have enough experience.

You're beating a dead horse at this school, or tilting at windmills. Get your child into another center and stop worrying yourself sick.

Really and truly,
Dawn

Well, the Montessori concept is something of a 'hands off', or 'independent' style approach to learning. Especially the first plane, birth to 6 years old.

It believes that in a pre-arranged environment children, if left to their own devices, will naturally teach themselves, or something to that effect.

When I was a very young mom this idea appealed to me, too. A sort of 'natural' way of learning. But as my children approached pre-school age (3-4), it was clear to me that they would need a more direct style, more adult attention, very clear rules to follow. Especially my boys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education

Still, if they are repeatedly maintaining there IS one teacher for every five students, and yet whenever you are there you observe otherwise....well, that's something different.

:)

UPDATE
Bravo! {standing ovation in my kitchen} Your SWH - Bravo! And that ladies and gentlemen is the high road.

I think you can either be right, or be happy.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but we're firsties too. Sometimes we just gotta ask ourselves, would this be a big deal if I had the experience of 3+ kids?

Since I rarely see any questions on here from big-family moms about bruises and cuts from daycare at that age - I would err on the side of "just part of growing up". But that's me.

I highly recommend asking yourself if you think a mom of 3 would be concerned. I have no idea what your answer might be, as I have a sliver of the info you do. But I wish you the best! :)

I don't know anything about the student teacher ratio, and I have not read your previous posts. But I am very nervous that you have had7 incident reports in 8 weeks. That is excessive in my book, and I would remove him from the school and find another place. I do not think that is "normal".

18 month-old kids are not coordinated. Heck, even 2.5 yo kids aren't coordinated. Does he not injure himself at home? My 2.5 yo still runs into things/hurts herself on a regular basis, definitely more than once a week. If it happened at a preschool, the school would probably be writing up incident reports. It doesn't seem unusual to me.

I was told by another parent a couple of years ago that their kiddo had a permanent bruise in the middle of his forehead for about a year when he was a young toddler.

My oldest son just finished 1st grade. He did PreK 3, PreK 4, Kinder, and 1st without one single incident report. My middle son just finished PreK 3 without a single incident report. (PreK 3 and PreK 4 are only a couple hours a week). Our PreK program has a 1:10 ratio, but the kids are 3-5 years old. There seems to be a lot of "incidents".

When I worked in the montessori school there were CONSISTENTLY three teachers with only 8 kids. THREE! and we still had one kid who ALWAYS got injured. In two and a half months of me being there his poor mom got 5 incident reports. We used to call him our accident child cause it was inevitable. Someone would be watching him the whole time, turn there head for a split second, turn around and he's done something! Now that I have a 16 month old, I have been consistently signing incident reports because my son is a daredevil child who doesn't pay attention to the other kids around him. He has 2 teachers for usually 10 kids in the classroom so they have about a 1:5 ratio. You can't expect him to never get bruises and bumps and some kids are more prone to it then others for whatever reason. I'd be happier that they're telling you about every bump and bruise instead of just trying to keep it from you.

This seems like a ridiculous pattern and reason for concern. My three very active boys all went to daycare from infancy to Kindergarten and in a combination of 12 years of daycare I had exactly 1 incident report to sign. And that was when one of my sons punched his own brother.

Kids regularly getting injured, even small cuts etc. is NOT routine in a child care setting at any age. They are clearly not supervising the kids and not staffing appropriately.

I would change school.

Or speak to the Director.

Document things with dates etc.

When my son was in Preschool, there were about 13-15 kids. And they had 3 Teachers, daily, in the room. I saw this myself, daily.

At your child's school, are they separated per age or is it a mixed age class, with older kids?

Both of my kids, at their Preschool (2 different preschools), they never had any incident reports, nor from other kids. Just as an example.

I don't mean to sound flippant, but it sounds like you need to move your child. There have been enough incidents at this point and the student:teacher ratio is just icing on the cake. My gut would say move on. I know it is hard to find a good school that you feel comfortable with. But do you really feel comfortable anymore? I wouldn't.

I also know that kids get bruises at this age, but 7 incident reports is a little crazy. My son, 5, just graduated from preschool, 3 years of history at a couple of different places and we have only had three incident reports the entire time. Once when he was gouged by another child in an aggressive fashion, once when his eye swelled up from his own scratching at it (he had something in it), and once when he fell and scraped his knee. I guess we averaged about 1 a year.

One last thing that qualifies my response, I was a bit touchy about ANYTHING happening to my first child (you know how that goes with the first). I removed my DS from that first preschool where the aggressive child gouged him because that particular child kept on attacking him. There was only 1 incident report ever filed, but he came home with stories and the straw that did it was when my DH saw the child shove my kiddo down (age 3) and take him by the head and then proceed to bang his head on the ground. We started looking for another preschool. DONE.

7 incidents reports. Too many in 8 WEEKS! Forget about the ratio (BTW, my understanding is that a true Montessori education maintains a 5:1 student:teacher ratio regardless of state mandates).

Wow for the person with the harsh comment but I will say that I had a great in home provider that worked well until my middle child turned 3 then the co provider changed she is super active ect and I knew she needed to move. When you start to have the mommy feeling that things aren't right you have to make the choice that is best for them

No, it's not unreasonable to expect a smaller teacher: child ratio. Here in Oregon, my toddler group was 20-30 months with a ratio of 1:4 (which is what's legal and, in my experience, sane). With two teachers and 8 children, we were hustling to make sure the kids were safe and happy.

This might give you heart:
http://www.chron.com/opinion/outlook/article/Time-to-re-e...

From what you've stated, I think it's more than time to move on. If you are paying for a 1:5 ratio, and if this is what's in their materials, this is what you should be able to expect. Montessori daycares/preschools usually use state guidelines for infant and toddler ratios, so while your facility may defer to state ratios when it's convenient for them if the 1:5 ratio is what they sold you on, then you have every right to expect it. When I had my preschools, I only quoted my maximum potential enrollments, so parents knew what to expect.

I mention this because it's those initial interactions that help to foster a sense of trust and parent investment in the program. While yes, there are some kids who do seem to be a bit more prone to accidents, if there's not a sense of trust and connection with the director and teachers, we are going to be more wary. I think this is a pretty natural response. If the teachers are warm and give us a sense that our little one is cared for and well-attended, this can go a long way in reassuring a parent that even if the admin is not great, the primary caregiver is going to be 'good enough' to make it work.

Only you can decide what you want to do. Technically, they are within the state guidelines. If it were me, I'd ask myself, "Do I ultimately trust these people? Does my kid seem pretty happy? Are there other preferable options?" I don't believe in keeping our kids in bubbles, but I also know that when my son gets hurt at preschool that I implicitly trust that his teachers are being straight with me because they always have been.

i see where you might find it a lot of "incident" reports. but come on, one of them was a scratch that didn't even bleed! and as far as the biting goes, i 100% feel that is absolutely unavoidable. as are probably most of the incidents you're talking about. your issues with the kids vs teacher ratio are a completely separate issue as far as i'm concerned, having more to do with the tuition you're probably paying, i'm sure...but the bumps and bruises on your little one sound totally normal to me. as soon as mine started walking at 9 months, he hasn't been scratch/bruise/bump free one moment since. i absolutely think you are overreacting. they probably HAVE to fill out those forms over every little thing, because of parents freaking out over these things. check up on them and i hope that helps ease your mind. also, welcome to parenting a boy ;)

It sounds like you need a new place...don't try to fix their system which isn't your job

I don't know about all states but the child to teacher ratio depends on the age of the child. At 18 months there should be at least two teachers with 6 kids. By 2.5 it is two teachers to about 8 children and as the children get older the ratio goes down. I don’t think 9 to 10 two year olds are safe with one teacher no matter how much you are paying.

Montessori schools look after the small children just like other schools. The teachers should be with the children guiding them and/or observing them playing. The laws are the same for any school/pre-school/daycare.

I would stop in unexpected and see for yourself what is going on. If it is the same with the chaos then I would talk to the administrator again and possibly contact the state and report them.

Check you states requirements.

I've seen some of your other posts and think that you should just switch schools. My son is all boy, rough and tumble, etc and I never had even a fraction of what you've had.

I've never experienced a 1:5 ratio. In my experience that is a little unreasonable. However, I wasn't paying top dollar for a Montessori school either. The last time he was in daycare there were 20 kids and two adults, so within the 9-10 kids per teacher. In his school now there are 16 with 2 adults so a 1:8 teacher/student ratio.

Again, never as many problems as you've had. Good Luck!

Children under 3 years of age are physically unbalanced. The are top heavy due to their heads being nearly a third of their weight. If they get unbalanced the wobble and fall down, they run into things, they bump into other kids. This is totally normal behavior for kids this age.

You can check your states teacher ratio's online:

http://daycare.com/texas/

5-1 is the limit. If they are not adhering to this guideline you need to report them to the state agency. If you see the classroom out of ratio ask the teacher where the other teacher is. If she is alone then you need to remove your child and tell the director you are leaving and why and that you will be reporting this to the licensing agency.

If the other teacher is in the classroom and you just can't see her, that does happen sometimes.

There should be extra staff to relieve the staff for bathroom breaks and the regular 15 minute breaks and lunch time. They should never ever have less than the exact number of teachers required by the state regulations in the class room, out in the room caring for the children.

.

I think most of the people that agree with you are reacting off the number of incident reports and not realizing they are for scrapes...at my daughters school you didn't get a report unless there was an actual injury not a scrape

I agree with the dad on here that you're reacting like a parent of an only child. (I'm one too)
So far all of the incidents wouldnt even be reported at most schools...so while it seems a lot there hasn;t been any actual "incident" a normal school would have even reported.
My daughter is in K and comes home with scrapes, bruises, blisters....daily from playing hard, soemtimes on her own, sometimes from another kid and they collide and so on. So far your son has had scratches pretty much with no blood on any...I'd say you're a worried first time parent..but I'd also say montessouri at that age seems pointless and not as much interaxtion as a typical 1 year old needs

I'd like to take the 'incidents' out of this equation for just a second to make a very important point I think you need to address.

This care facility that he is enrolled in....if they present a specific ratio to you as a parent enrolling their child, and that is what they are "selling" you, per say, then they need to provide the care ratio that they have "sold" you.

If I were in your shoes, every single time that I counted enough kids to exceed that ratio I would be in the administrators office requiring a satisfactory answer right then and there. I would not ask the teacher(s). Oftentimes they do not truly know and are not ultimately responsible for maintaining those ratios happen. Don't allow the care center to become lax about what they have presented to you as their level of care. Demand at least the minimum promised and nothing less.

As for the incidents, 7 incidents in 8 weeks seems a bit excessive. Some of it can be written off as typical kid stuff but I would be a little concerned too. I think you are a great mom for paying attention to this and asking the question.

Good Luck!

Take my response with a grain of salt, because I never had my kids in daycare so I don't know what is "normal" or "typical" regarding incident reports in those settings. My kids didn't start school until age 4 (private preschool). And there was exactly ONE incident report. My son walked behind his best friend (who was swinging) and got whacked in the mouth with the seat of the swing. He was fine (busted lip, but fine). A popsicle and it was over. There were multiple teachers supervising the kids, but kids are quick, and stuff happens.

My daughter is 10 (also in school since age 4) and has had exactly ZERO incident reports. My son, age 13, has not had any other incident reports for injuries.
Granted, mine were older kids than toddlers. And I know some kids are more "accident prone" than others, and some kids seem to always be in the wrong place at the wrong time when another "accident creating kid" happens along.... but,
BUT,
if they promised you a 1:5 ratio, and they aren't providing it, then you need to address that issue. If you are not comfortable with the 1:8 ration you have been seeing, find out why it isn't the 1:5 you were told it would be, and if they can't or don't rectify it, move your child.

I'd be willing to bet that a 1:5 ratio would dramatically reduce the number of incident reports. Yes, kids will get hurt. Even at home, my own kids walked around with bruises and such, lol. Fingers smashed in the door, fell over into the edge of a bookshelf, a soft dive stick thrown in the wrong direction by a 5 yr old and hit the 2 yr old in the eye, etc... stuff happens. But 7 incidents in 8 weeks sounds excessive to me.

If they had proper (read: "the promised/promoted") staffing, I'd be more willing to think it was just bad luck. But without the proper (promised/promoted) staffing, then I would be less inclined to chalk it up to a run of bad luck.

(And ignore the bubble wrap suggestion... )

I would talk to the Director or change schools. I did read and respond to one of your previous posts and my response then was not to worry too much. However, this does seem to be happening too much at this point and they don't seem to care. I don't know how you get a cut under your eye by running into another 18 mo old - that doesn't make sense. And if they aren't living up to their stated ratio during drop off and pick up (when parents are there), it would make me nervous as to what is going on during the day.

For what it is worth, I have friends who use Primrose in Frisco (Eldorado) and they like it. You might try that instead. Good luck!

You just do not seem happy, change facilities, but change because you do not like the facility/staff not b/c your LO gets hurt. THEY ALL GET HURT. My son is 5, just a week or so ago I got a call from the school nurse to come get him because he ran into the door and has a cut just outside of his eye and may need a stich. Oh fun, first time experiece with stiches (broken bones I got those but open gashes yuck) so, I call the pedi, they agree that they want to see him first. We go, looks worse than it is, email the teacher to let her know he is okay and we move on. In fact we were joking about it while I was picking him up (I volunteer there so they know me well). In day care OH MY WORD!! If my child came home more than 3 days w/out a something this or that I was concerned. My child was the biter's best friend because of his SPD it did not bother him (it did bother me and we worked on it) so he constantly had bites, he constantly had bruises, bandaids, ice packs you name it. So, again, leave because you do not like the teachers/facility is not following the rules etc but not b/c your kid is getting hurt.