Lying!!!!! WOAH NELLY!

I think she just might want attention. I do not suggest putting tabasco in a 4 year olds mouth. I personally think that is a little abusive and isnt going to help her any. I do suggest both of you seeing a therapist.

I suggest a therapist. She's lying in avoidance of something...teens tend to do this though...especially girls.

This response was for a teenager--I failed to read the "4 year old" part! Ha! I was also going to suggest drug testing (cheap at walgreens) might be in order! Lol!

I don't think that tobasco is a little abusive, it's VERY abusive. I actually know of a daycare provider that lost everything because of some stupid parent. The parent left a bottle of tobasco sauce with the provider telling her to use it for a biting child. The provider said she would not use it. The parent insisted on leaving it just to scare the child. The provider hated the idea and the parent insisted just walking out and leaving it. Later that day another daycare parent asked about the tobasco sauce. The provider told her about the problem with the biting and the other parent and that she would not use it. That parent was upset anyway. She called DFS. The provider was shut down and charged with intimidation of a minor. I don't remember what state that was in.

Lying is a normal phase children go through. Some kids get it really bad. Sometimes they lie about everything.

Let me ask you this. If you are yelling at your kids about every little thing, why wouldn't she lie about eating the last 3 grapes?! She is going to get yelled at if she admits to eating the last 3 grapes. Why the heck shouldn't she eat the last 3 grapes? She lives there too. Does she have to ask permission for every grape she puts in her mouth?

If you don't want to lose those kids you better get yourself some help. They don't usually allow the parent to live with a child that they have lost custody of. Does the state know you are living with your daughter and your mother?

Listen people. I am sick and tired of someone jumping on me when they don't like my advice. Mamasource is supposed to be so all fire supportive. Sometimes we just have to say it like it is. So keep your emails to yourself and to the admins..don't email the the RULES about how we are supposed to be offering such a supportive environment. We are mothers. Mothers put the children FIRST! That's the only and best advice I can give all mothers. Putting the child first at all times will cover just about every problem under the sun imaginable.

Suzi

Well this is where the parenting classes that you don't like come in. I'm against using stuff like the Tabasco and soap...if you didn't like it and resented it then doesn't it stand to reason she will too?

Basically, there has to be a REASON why she is doing this. Most likely, to get more attention. I think you should sit down with her and have an honest conversation about how lying is wrong and hurtful and that you expect the truth from her (and she should expect it from you). You then need to set up clear consequences for lying. TIME OUTS DO WORK. So what if she sits there and daydreams? She's still not getting to play, watch TV or do anything else she wants to do. The point is you are taking away priviledges. And you need to be consistant with them. Time outs need to be in a place where there is little to no activity (people passing by or things to see or do) and where they can't participate or do anything (sitting on a stair, sitting on a chair at the end of the hallway, etc.)

Try a love and logic approach. Ask her how she would feel if you told her you were taking her to the park, pool, movie, etc. and actually lied about it? How would she feel? Same thing here with the grapes, etc. eventually it all builds up and you lose trust with that person. She needs to trust you and you need to trust her.

There are no quick and easy answers to parenting. I know patience is not a strong point with you but with parenting you need to develop it. Children are going to be defiant, it's their nature to push the boundaries. It's our job to show them where the boundaries are and to encourage them to stay within them. At 4 this is an important phase. She's begging for attention (good or bad doesn't seem to matter) so try something that she's not going to suspect you would do...she already knows you'll yell or do tabasco so try something different like sitting and talking to her about the consequences of her actions...if she lies about going to the bathroom and goes in her pants then she needs to change them and clean them out as punishment...would venture to say it won't happen again. Thus, love and logic. Good luck.

K.,
It sounds like you really love your daughter & want the best for her. But, tabasco really is very, very harsh as a punnishment. I am assuming you heard of someone else doing this and thought it better than putting soap in her mouth. Your punnishment might actually be encouraging the lying. When she does something she knows is wrong she is afraid of what you will do if she tells the truth.

Your goal is for her to tell the truth and not lie, right? Well, when you give too harsh a punnishment or yell at her you are not teaching her to not lie, you are teaching her to be afraid of you. Believe it or not, being afraid of you and teaching her the correct way to conduct herself are not the same.

At your daughter's age, it is normal to experiment with lying. She is also at an age where imagination IS real to her. So to take pressure off herself when she does something she knows to be wrong, a lie is a natural reaction from her. Try gently telling her "silly, how did the grapes go away then, did they fly?" or something like that. It gives her the chance to feel comfortable telling the truth.

If you find you are having a hard time coming up with ideas of how to teach her good ways to react to situations then I would suggest going to a parenting class! You would find GREAT ways to teach your daughter without getting you or her frustrated. The classes will help you understand WHY your daughter acts a certain way at different ages & when it is NORMAL to behave in such a way. Knowing why & what your daughter is thinking makes parenting MUCH easier, I promise. You would get some GREAT ideas on how to correct certain behaviors and what behaviors to ignore.

So, I'd suggest going to a parenting class and you'd be surprised how much better she behaves when she is gently nudged in the right direction instead of yelled at or her tongue burned w/hot sauce.

Call DCFS & ask about their free parenting courses or if they could suggest some for you. They are there to help you, that's their job. Or, call a local church & ask if they offer free counseling for parents trying to learn how to parent without yelling or harsh punnishment. Yes, ask using those words. Being honest will get you the help you need. If you don't ask for it, you won't improve.

If the 1st church doesn't know of any, call another one! Don't give up. You are too important to not get the help you want! Call the catholic church, they have many programs free of charge. You don't have to go to church to benefit from help. That is what they are there for.

So, take a deep breath, ...... get the phone book, ... tell yourself that you are going to be the BEST mother you can be. You are NOT going to let ANYONE tell you you CAN'T.

Start calling, be honest, tell them what you need. It is what those programs are for! They are waiting for you & will be happy you are asking for help!

Good luck, I am PROUD of you already for asking for help on Mamasource!

Again, I am praying for you & KNOW you can do this!
J.

If you are having a hard time finding classes in your area, private message me & I'll see what I can look up, but call DCFS & the churches first & see what you can find.

K.-

Is your daughter 'lying' or maybe just testing you out? Four years old is awfully young to punish for not telling the truth. I would redirect her when she says something that is not true. If you catch her in a lie, say something like "Maybe you didn't think you had to go pee, but you did becuase you did X (peed in her panties, went on the potty, etc). Or when she tells you she didn't eat the last grapes, but you saw her do it, tell her "It's okay if you ate them, I just wanted to know so I know if you need some more to eat."

I remember another post you sent a few days ago about having troubles with your son eating and you yelling. Could this stress be affecting her? Maybe you are yelling at her as well so she is deciding it's better to lie to you becuase then you won't yell at her if she did something wrong. I'm not blaming you, just suggesting a different point of view based on things you have posted in the past. You don't want her resenting or hating you for punishing her when she's not doing it 'on purpose'. I'd look for a deeper reason for her doing what she is doing.

Lastly, I would praise her when she does something truthful. Praise is a good initiative to do the same thing over and over again :)

Good luck!

Whoa Nelly is right, but not about your daughter's behavior, but your reaction to it <IMO>. She is four, the age of fantasy and make believe. At that age a child doesn't really have a grasp of truth vs fantasy/falsehood. They believe what they say & aren't lying to decieve the way adults do, even though it may seem that way to you, because you know the difference between truth & not truth. In a 4 year old mind, if she says it, it's true, to her at least.
I think the best reaction is to say, "Oh, is that right?" and ignore. Don't try arguing with her, to convince her that she's wrong or not telling the truth--that is a battle that you can't win. If she says she has to go to the bathroom, then take her. If she doesn't pee, oh, well, maybe next time. "I guess you didn't really have to go after all."
The more attentio you pay to it, the more you reinforce the behavior. If you don't like, ignore it.
I honestly don't see how tabasco on the tongue is any different that washing out her mouth with soap and I wouldn't do either.
Children learn so much more by our examples than by our lectures and speeches. Live truthfully and honestly, and set the best example you can for her. She will outgrow this unless you make a huge deal out of it. It is a stage of development and something that all children go through.
Put the tabasco away and save it for the jambalaya!

Grandma D.

I agree with all the prior posts. There should be NO punishment for your 4 year old. Just talk to her. Ask her if what she is saying is real or pretend, so that she starts to learn the concept that what she saying isn't true. To be honest with you, when I read your post I was imagining this little precious girl just wanting the last 3 grapes and then her mom, the one she looks up to, putting Tabasco sauce on her tongue to burn her mouth. What type of message is that sending? Is it really hurting anything if she says she has to go to the bathroom a million times or just an inconvience? At 4 she should be able to go in there whenever she needs to use the bathroom...just ignore her requests.

K....save the Tabasco sauce for the next time you have a Mexican meal that needs a little added "spice"....and forget the soap. Have you or your Mother tried talking to your daughter?? Tell her how it hurts your feelings and makes you lose trust in her when she doesn't tell you the truth. Also...remember that to a 4 year old these are not LIES....at least not all of the time. She is telling you what she wants to be her reality. Maybe she is needing a little extra attention...or maybe she has a bladder infection...that could be 2 explanations of why she tells you she needs to go to the bathroom so often.
Pick your battles...don't fight with her over the last 3 grapes or whether she tells her little brother to sit down. Save your energy and don't give yourself a reason to get mad and upset. Make the interaction between you and your children positive and respectful...just because they are littler than we are doesn't mean we don't need to be as considerate of them as we are of other people in our lives.
As I said to you the other day...remember that you are the role model for what your children will become someday. Give them the example that you would want them to follow...a calm, firm, loving adult who is there for them every day of their lives!!!
R. Ann

K. you remind me of my daughter, she was a young mother not quite ready to be. When your daughter lies to her tell her that was a good story, then maybe think of something outrageous to keep the story going, like "it was giant ants that took those last 3 grapes away, if we look close outside they are still trying to get the grapes down the little holes outside!" Feed her imagination then ask what really happened to the grapes, laugh if she comes up with another story and tell her that you like stories sometimes, but really would like to hear the truth because you love her and want to know everything about her, then let it go. She's 4 don't punish her for an imagination if you keep enforcing the idea that you understand that she is telling a story and you would like to hear the truth one of these days she will tell you the truth, THAT'S when the hardest part will come to you--no punishment, you can talk about what her punishment should be, but let her know that you value the truth more and NO PUNISHMENT! I know this works, it was the hardest thing I've ever done last summer when my son told me that he had done something that I did not approve of it was heartbreaking to me, but I swallowed MY pride and angered and told him that because he had let us know about it before we found out another way, he wouldn't be punished. Since that moment of complete trust my son has been open with us letting us know where he is, talking to us about things including us in his friendships, I have two older daughter's and they weren't as open in their relationships with us and I totally put the credit to this crucial moment we had with our son, so please value the courage it takes her to talk to you more than your anger over her actions.

I also agree with the others that hot sauce is abusive. I was a young mother too, I have an 18 year-old, and I had no patients, plus , I listened to my mother on child raising. The way they did things to me as a child are no longer legal, so her advise to me was not good, but b/c I didn't know any better I often followed her advise. Now, I wish I had known better. I too thought parenting classes weren't for me and that was more for a prefect world and the perfect child, but it's not it's for everyone. It's hard to changes old ways and how you were raised, however, you need to make a new beginning, even with out going anywhere and say from this day forward I'm going to try to do things a better way. Time-outs do work, I thought they didn't work either with my older one, but that's not true, it worked with her with other people, I was just doing it wrong. 1 min per age year they say. Of course she would rather daydream, didn't you? I did, I would daydream that the kids in other peoples yard were loved, and that their parents were not like mine, that they held them and played with them. My sister use to tell me I was found under a rock and while I knew that it wasn't true, I would daydream that my real family was going to one day come for me. It never happen of course but I finally did figure out my real family was the child/children that I was raising, and they had came for me. It was my job to change, so I did. Once my daughter spilled her milk (She was 4) and I was so mad, but the next time and after that, I learned to do things like just get the cat until I could get to it not worry about it or get upset, and to clean her up first and tell her it was okay. The things you say to a child really impact them, it was horrible to think of the things I said just b/c she spilled her milk. So, when she pulled the fire alarm on a miltary base, 6 months later, it was not the end of the world for me or her, b/c I had made some changes to my world and mostly her world on how I dealt with things.

Good Morning K., You have some awesome advice from alot of the Mama's posting already. I would heed what they say. Storytelling is all part of a child's growing up stages. I always told our son's, ( when caught in really out & out lies) if you tell me the absolute truth there will be no discipline involved. Eating last grapes, or saying sit down to her baby brother is not a capitol offence. Corbin says at times he has to go poop several times a day and really he doesn't most of the time, it's gas he passes. Stinky poo...lol

I did wash my son's mouths out when they were older for cursing and really lying to the point they could get hurt.
All t took was once for them to realise I was serious. I told you earlier in the week I put hot sause on Zane's thumbs to keep him from sucking them. I forgot to mention the Kid-o Loved it. Licked it off and stuck his thumb out for more....lol So keep the Hot sause for meal time.
Corbin has a very vivid imagination, he can tell you a tale that would bring giggles, and he will say it's true Nana. Like the Dinosaur he found buried in the sand box. That ate his last lollipop. Can he have ONE more........lol I asked if it was the T-Rex or the triceratops?

The things some of the other Mama's told you are so right on. If she knows she is going to be yelled at anyway, why tell you the truth? Have you told her at anytime, If your a good girl we will go to the park and play? then you don't carry through? Have you ever told her if she eats all her dinner she can have ice cream or a cookie, then not give it to her cause she got full, with a couple of bites left?
A clean plate is not necessary, you have to do it or else, type of thing!!

I loved the Ant story one of the mama's shared, Loved it. WTG.
There are so many more things coming up in your children's lives to deal with later on. Getting upset over the grapes is NOT one of those times or things.

I wish you calm days, happy times, and wonderful memories!!
God Bless you K. and your precious little Angels

K. Nana of 5
PS Suzi I appreciate your advice, you shoot from the hip and at times that is really necessary to do. At times I read other mama's input and shake my head, wondering Where did that come from and move on. Everyone is a unique person, own thoughts, feelings, ways of living. Thank you Father God, that you made each of us with unique abilities, idea's, feelings, wisdom, knowledge, understanding. It's how we use those gifts given that makes us what / who we are.

Hi,
My son has had a few 'lying' phases. He's 5 now and we hopefully have reached the end of the one of the most recent phases.
I explained to him how trust works and the importance of having trust between us...giving him examples of what it would be like if I couldn't trust him and he couldn't trust me.
I also said that if he were to be honest with me, he wouldn't be in AS MUCH trouble or in trouble AT ALL for what ever it was he did or didn't do.
He gave it a shot and I held my end of the bargain. The next day, I found something had been broken and I asked if he did it. He was honest and admitted it with an apology. That's when I followed up with "accidents happen, it's not a major deal...the important thing is that you were honest and admitted to breaking it. I truly appreciate and respect your decision."
A real turning point for us.
He's been honest about everything since then and I have to say, it's very refreshing.
Another thing, I have to agree with other posters, is she might be looking to get your attention no matter what. Try making 1 on 1 time...even if it's 15 minutes...it will go a long way!
lb

My two oldest went through the lying phase. I just took whatever the punishment would have been for what they were lying to cover up and doubled it. Took them about two weeks to figure out it was better to come clean about it. Then when they stopped lying we talked more about what they did and such so sometimes they didn't get grounded at all. They are now 19 and 21 and always take ownership of their actions.

CHeck out the movies "Magic 1 2 3 " they're amazing and have changed a lot of my friends lives.
:o)

K., wow, chill out!!! she's 4, it's what they do!!! Their imaginations are amazing and they are experimenting. You don't hot sauce her or soap her! We've learned too much about kids and growing up for that!

You consistently-calmly-sit down, look her in the eye and explain that what she is saying is not a fact or true. (further explain the truth is something that is real or really happened or will happen) And it's ok to tell stories--if she tells people she is telling stories---but if she tells a story and tells people it is true, that is a lie and not acceptable. Tell her people don't like liars-4 year olds want people to like them.

I highly suggest you check out a book called "Magic Parenting 1-2-3. It changed our lives with our kids. There used to be a blog by some Berkley grad students who were also single parents-you might be able to get the gist of the book if you google it and read the blog. When my son was 2 1/2 we started using the technique and we had a changed child in a few days! Now, people comment what a nice child he is all the time.

I completely agree with Suzi! If we aren't looking out for the best interests of children, what really matters isn't being addressed. To me, the idea of doing anything like using soap in a child's mouth or putting tabasco on her tongue is unthinkable. I'm sure every one of us who is a mother has had instances where her child has pushed her buttons. The thing is that everything you do and say to your child will affect who she is. Will she grow up to be confident and happy because her mother has been supportive and loving? Or, will she grow up angry and end up in abusive relationships because she thinks that is how people show love. Whether you think it is for you or not, I ask you to look into a parenting class. You may find that it is just what you need. For your daughter's sake, help yourself to be better for her. There isn't anything that a 4 year old can do worthy of this treatment.