Looking for Suggestions Where to Go: 3.5 Year Old with Multiple Sleeping Issues

Hi T.,

There could be several things going on. It could be diet, it could be that he does just need to be near you. I totally agree with what one of the other moms said about children not being 'wired' to be seperated from their parents.

I know of a pediatrician in the Ann Arbor area that only deals with 'special issues'. She no longer does general care, but deals with various problems. Sleep disruption is one specific area she does handle. I have heard her speak, and she is a very kind, gentle, and understanding doctor.

www.healthisfreedom.com

I hope you can find a solution.

Good luck.

Go pick up some Melatonin. You can get it just about anywhere. Take 1/2 a pill, crush it into something and try that. I would NOT give him more than 1/2, and if you can maybe even give him 1/4 to start and see what happens. After about 2 weeks, don't give him one and see how he does with out. My son'ts doctor suggested this to me (he's a psycologist - if I spelled it right). It worked great for my son and helps him to get thru the time changes.

He may have a poor sense of where he is in space. Occupational therapists and developmental professionals call that sense "Proprioception". (google it)

When a child doesn't know where they are in space from the inside of themselves (muscles, joints), they have to use their EYES to tell them where they are. Typically, knowing where you are comes PARTLY from vision, but not fully. You use your balance and your hearing, and touch, and proprioception, too.

When you ask a child who has no sense of proprioception, of where he is in space, to lie down and shut off his most relied upon sense, his EYES/VISION, you very often have sleep problems.

Go to www.handle.org and read some of the activities, particularly, "crazy straw". Some sensory integration activies from a neurodevelopmental perspective may help.

Also, a heavy cotton filled quilt, some bumpy teddy bears around him, a tent over the bed, something scented in a vaporizer all may give him input to his nervous system to allow him to know where he is w/ his eyes shut.

Honestly, you may want to consider co-sleeping with him to make sure it is not an attachment issue versus a medical issue. Its normal for children to wake frequently as their sleep cycles are much shorter than ours. Clearly he is not able to just go back to sleep on his own and he is seeking you--and that is definitely a sign that something is bothering him or something is wrong. Did your schedule change? Are there other stressful things he may be feeling? Is he just looking for more contact with you? I know many people don't care to sleep with their child and in this country, it is so controversial, but with these circumstances, you may want to try it as the entire family is now suffering. It doesn't mean you'll be in there for the next 5 years. There are some kids who just are afraid of nighttime and he is only 3 and a half--lets face it, its scary to be alone in the dark. Especially during certain growing periods and phases of attachment that children go thru. I personally believe that taking a scared child into bed is okay. Most people will sleep with their pets and leave their young children alone to cry it out--and hey if that works for your family, then great. I just think we as a society have been way to judgmental on co-sleeping when that really was the biological design for our species. And of course, if he still continues to wake and have sleep anxiety issues even with you there, then a medical eval would be appropriate. anyways, i just thought i would offer my two cents as sleep deprivation is just the worst--for everyone. Best of luck!

HI T.,

I feel for you....all mom's do! I have my own bias, which you'll see below. While you may want to consider seeking advice from specialists, I would also strongly encourage you to consider co-sleeping with him for a while. We have 2 boys, ages 3 and 6, and they both still sleep with us in our king size bed most nights, and have on and off since they were born. We all sleep well (except when they are sick - but that's true no matter if a child is sleeping in their own bed or not), and some nights the older one chooses to be in his own room and bed. Basically, they both know they are welcome to sleep whereever they want, in our bed or their own.

When I was first pregnant, I never intended to co-sleep with my children. But after lots of reading and research, it just made sense to me and my husband, who is very supportive of our family bed arrangement. I would encourage you to do your own research and reading about co-sleeping. A book called "The Contiuum Concept" by Jean Liedloff would be a good place to start. Evolutionarily speaking, babies and young children aren't "wired" to sleep alone, isolated from their mother or siblings. Children do have different sleep cycles and patterns from adults, and it's important we understand that fully before we assume there is something wrong when they wake up so often. It's natural and normal. We've never let them cry it out -- which has meant less sleep for us -- but in the long run, it believe it's been well worth it.

Both our boys fall asleep well on their own, and love to sleep next to each other, but aren't dependent on it. They are well adjusted and self-confident young boys. Sure, I would love to have a little more room in my bed sometimes, but I know I am going to miss it terribly when they both move on to their own beds. Which they all eventually do. :) My husband and I both work full time, and sleeping next to them is one wonderful way we get to be with them.

It may be that you could both benefit from trying co-sleeping for a little while. He might feel more secure, and you might get more sleep! :)

Wow -- I didn't intend for this to get so longwinded. You can tell I'm a real advocate for co-sleeping. I do, however, realize every family needs to do what works best for them. Best of luck -- and remember the mama mantra of "this too shall pass".

A.

Hello Tracey,
I have a 4 1/2 year old that has Never slept well. We are exspecting our 3rd child in June so I talked to a theripist about this. (he has gotten worse since the loss of our baby in July.) I am reading a book by Tamar Chansky called Freeing your child from anxiety. I don't know about your child but my son has a hard time with seperation from me and it intensifies at bedtime. We just started a week and a half ago saying no more mommy and daddy's bed when you wake up in the night, we started a reward chart and the thing that has worked the best for our son is a sound machine, he turns it on summer night and you hear birds and crickets. Because he is not a sound sleeper the sound machine has been most successful, if he gets up once or twice I put him back in bed and rub his back for 30 sec and tell him how good he is doing and I go back to bed myself.
It is a hard transition to quit taking naps, but at 3.5 year old, I would start with that also. If my son falls asleep during the day he can't go to bed until very late. With no nap he is out by 8pm! Good Luck, my prayers are with you!
M.

There was just something on TV about a boy with similar problems but more extreme. It was a medical issue that can be treated. I am sorry I don't remember what show (dateline, etc). I would got to Mott - it is a great hospital.

Is there a night light in his room? Or a street light out side his window?
It has been scientificly proven that if there is ANY light while trying to sleep your body does not make a certain hormone that causes you to get that deep sleep.
Put shades up in his windows to block out the light from out side and make the night light go bye bye...
A noise machine or small fan may help.
Say bye bye to naps and try to make sure he's not drinking a soda . (some teas, chocolate, candy,etc have caffine in them.)NOT EVEN A SIP... Caffine can affect your body rhythyms until 10 hours after you drank it....
Try putting a sippy cup next to his bed so he may help himself to drinks and get back into bed by himself.

Keep a log. When and why he gets up EVERY NIGHT. How long he's up, etc...

A good book that helped us is Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Dr. Weissbluth. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have him examined for possible sleep apnea at a sleep clinic. My friend's son had that, had adenoids/tonsils removed and she subsequently had her first full night of sleep in 5 years (he was five years old!) - almost like a miracle overnight. That was what kept waking him up, so that is a potential cause for your son's problem. Sleep (bad and good)really is the key to life, especially in a young family - everything revolves around it. Good luck with this!

Hello T.,

one of the questions my pediatrician usually asks is if they're having trouble sleeping (in relation to allergies). so definitely get him tested for allergies. I know we all can't get the 'nutrition of the year' award... perhaps you can follow a few guidelines like:
NO MSG, NO High fructose corn syrup, NO soda
no juice after 4pm
oh, and absolutely NO diet sugars!!
no milk products at night (phlem build up)
maybe you need to try no milk at all for a few days and see if that helps.
you can also get some essential oils to see if that would help him. on a tissue you can put a few drops of lavender oil and put it in the room (where the kids don't get to it) also for a stuffy nose you can put a few drops of peppermint oil on a tissue and put it in the room (where the kids can't get to) that may help in the meantime.
I used twinlab's infant drop vitamins until my kids were 6. they did very well with it. Good luck and follow your gut... maybe you do need a different doctor.
Also, find a good chiropractor and get him adjusted. ~Carmen~

Hi T.,

It may be possible that your son is ready to give up his naps. Experts suggest that many kids need naps until they are 5 years old, but trust me, if you google this, you will see that SO many kids give up their naps much earlier. My own son is also 3.5 years old and had completely given up his naps by the time he was 2.5 years old. Each child is different, so maybe you can take away the naps and see what happens. I think it's worth a try before you try seeing a sleep specialist.

If, for some reason, my son does take a nap (likLe if he falls asleep in the car), he will be up extremely late at night. Okay, he is normally in bed between 8 and 8:30 at night. If he falls asleep in the car even for just 10 minutes, it is automatic that he will be up at least until 10:30 or 11. Last weekend, we took him to the zoo but then had a few errands to run on the way home. My husband ran into the stores while I stayed in the car with both our sleeping kids. Long story short, Alex slept for 1.5 hours, and he was up until 1 am! And yes, when he goes to sleep late, you'd think he would be so tired that he would sleep through the night. Nope, not even close. Those are the nights he's up multiple times!

So that is my suggestion; you may have to play around with his bedtime to see what works for him. Who knows, some kids this age are ready for bed by 7, others, not until 9. I wish you luck, I feel so bad for you, I know what its like!

I would first look at his diet. Eliminate all sugar and be sure to check the lables of what he is eating. That high fructose corn syrup is in everything and can cause all kinds of problems. Remember the old wives tale about warm milk before bed...it's the calcium in the milk that helps to relax. I am not an advocate of cow's milk, but you could give him a calcium supplement about an hour before bed. The dose on the bottle is probably not enough. The FDA standards are much lower than we all actually need. You could also take him to the Alternative Healthcare Center in Grosse Pointe. This group has clinical nutritionists that work with all kinds of issues. He may have some food allergies or nutritional deficiencies that can be solved without a million tests and dangerous perscriptions. go to www.ahccenter.com and read the testimonials and give them a call. They are very friendly and good at what they do.

My cousin has had a lot of experience with Mott's Children's Hospital (although not the sleep clinic). It has always, and continues, to be great. What you should be aware of though, is that some specialist require a referral from your primary doctor first. You'll want to find out what, if anything, they require from your primary doctor. If Mott's requires a referral, call you pediatrician and see if they would give it to you. If not, then keep looking or keep pushing your doctor about it.

If it were me, I'd have him sleep with me so we could all get some sleep. I'd eliminate naps altogether too. Consistency of routine is a good idea that you've been doing but it sounds like he's feeling very needy at night. This is far more common that you'd think. Many families are up a lot at night and there are husbands or wives who routinely sleep with a child so they can all get some sleep. They grow out of it eventually! Try to keep your sense of humor and don't make more out of this than it is. I know it's frustrting, but some kids are just this way.

I can SO relate! When our youngest son was 2 1/2 he had a very hard time falling asleep. He would cry at night because he couldn't fall asleep--not with pressure from us! We took him to a specialist. This 'idiot' said it was our problem! At 6 we took him for counciling and someone finally recommended a medication to help him sleep, Clonidine. It was a lifesaver! Definitely go to the Motts Children's Sleep Clinic. I wish it would have been available 15 years ago!

I know this may sound counter intuitive but it sounds like the nap needs to go bye bye. Some kids can do a nap when they are this old, but I cut the naps out early, not convenient for me, but they started to go to bed at night. Add quiet time at v nap time. My 3 1/2 yr old goes to bed between 7 and8 pm and gets up between the same time.

Couldn't hurt to try it. I heard that it takes 2 weeks for kids to become accustomed to not having naps. It sure would be cheaper easier than doing sleep studies, etc.

Good luck!

Can you put a small mattress in your room so that he'll sleep calmly and comfortably there? Perhaps then he won't get up a few times at night?

T.,
First; it's Ann Arbor, I don't see how you could go wrong. In general I think they are the best hospital system in Mi. I do not have expereince with the children's hospital but the whole is a good place to be.
Until then; I would try some more things on your own. If you have a video camera you could set it up in your son's room at night. It could be something that is waking him and you just don't know it cause you are not in the room when it happens. On the flip side you would also have footage to show the Dr.'s in Ann Arbor. I know if my son was doing that our camera would be up very quickly. That's just me.
I wish you the best in getting this all figured out.
MG

I feel for you! It sounds like your son can't calm his brain down, even though he wants and needs his sleep. Perhaps an evaluation from an occupational theapist is in order, it sounds like a sensory integration issue to me. Especially with the red flag that goes about having some trouble in school. If your doctor won't address the issues you ened to with him, go to another pediatrician. Sleep is too important.