Keeping 4 y.o. Daughter Away from Inappropriate Neighbor

wow, let this be a lesson to you that kids need to play wtih kids their own age. An 8 year old wanting to play with a 4 year old of the opposite sex would just by itself be a red flag for me. I would just explain to the boy that she's a little too young to play with a big boy like him, but thanks for asking. Just remember this down the road because out of my friends, it seems like problems arise when their kids are playing with someone older than them.

I would listen to Marda, she seems to have the most experience you are going to find on this site with what you should do in this situation.

M.

I am a retired police officer who has investigated sex offenses including those involving children. Your description immediately caused me to wonder if this boy has been or is being molested. Looking at and showing private parts is common but this sounds like there is the possibility that it is more than that. In addition to the boys behavior the father is defensive.

I recommend that you call your local police jurisdiction information line and tell them you'd like to talk with someone about child molestation. When you reach that department tell them what you've told us. They will ask questions and perhaps want to talk with your daughter.

Definitely do not let your daughter play with this boy and have contact with the father. Do not let her play outside by herself.

When my grandchildren were that age their mother and I both agreed to not let them play outside by themselves and it was sometimes an inconvenient but we were able to do that. They live in an apartment complex and I am aware that even tho you want to trust others you cannot until you actually know them well. Even if everyone in the complex was trustworthy you do not know who will come by.

My granddaughter is now nearly 10 and her mother still will not let her play outside without an adult she trusts also outside. I might be a bit more relaxed but I still think it's best to err on the side of safety.

It must be disappointing to move into a house in a quiet area and have to deal with this possibility. I sometimes feel so sad that our world today is so different from the one in which I grew up. When I was a child we could roam the neighborhood. All the families knew each other and watched out for each other's kids.

I do want to emphasize that this may not be a case of molestation. It could just be that this father is allowing his son to watch inappropriate TV programs, movies, even himself and a girl friend. Even if that is the case you do not want your daughter to be exposed to it.

And, your call, may help the boy by bringing the father's inappropriate parenting to official attention.

You mention avoiding the son and father. Is there something about the father that causes you to fear him? I've found it's usually best to be up front about things. Unless you have a gut feeling that you can relate to something he's said or did that causes your fear, tell the son that your daughter cannot play with him because he's too old. Tell the father the same thing. It is reasonable that an 8 you and a 4 yo not play together. You don't have to tell them anything else.

If you do not have a fence, I also recommend that you build one with a gate that can be locked. I wouldn't want my 4 yo playing outside in an unfenced yard. Both of my grandchildren wondered at that age and still do. They're interested in knowing about everything. Even when I was a kid and we felt safe from predators my parents built a fence around our back yard.

It really is best to be safe than sorry.

Later, I want to add that calling the police and/or Child Services does not open one up for a law suit of any kind. The purpose of your call is to gain information on how to protect your child. It is not even to report the other parent although in this case the police and/or Child Services will investigate if in their opinion there is a need for more information. Calling is not make an accusation. It is asking a question.

I also agree that this can be normal behavior for an 8 yo. That is why it's not appropriate for a 4 yo to play with some 8 yos. I'm not saying it's always inappropriate.

I am saying that I'm concerned because of the totality of the information. I have received similar information and found that even tho the situation wasn't a good one there was nothing that I could legally do except offer the parent some assistance. Some parent's accepted the assistance. Some didn't.

If you do not want the father of the other boy to know that you are the one that called you can ask to be a confidential informant. It is likely that he will guess that you are the one that called and the authorities will help you deal with the fall out if there is any.

I definitely believe that you should not get the two families together. You do not know the other father well enough to know his reaction. The likelihood of this being traumatic for you and your daughter is high. He's already shown that obscenity is a part of his language.

I do suggest that if he wants, to your husband could talk with the father about what has happened. But again, from what you've said about his defensiveness I believe that this will not help. In many circumstances I do believe that talking with a neighbor first is a good way to be a good neighbor. But, it sounds to me, that this man is not able to be a good neighbor. He shows this by being critical of other children in an angry way.

If he does decide to talk with the other father he needs to be aware that whatever he says needs to be the truth and said calmly. He doesn't have to talk about everything but what he does say should be accurate. What brings this to mind is the suggestion that your daughter will not be allowed to play with any older child. This is setting you up for difficulty if you do have an older child over to play and that is a possibility.

I am always in favor of protecting one's self and especially one's children. this doesn't mean that you have to talk with the neighbor if doing so will cause you to be verbally abused. We say that neighbors should talk with each other. Unfortunately that is not always possible.

Getting as much info as possible and thus being able to make an informed decision is talked about often now. Calling the police/and/or social services is a part of the process of making an informed decision about one of the most important parts of your life; that of the life of your child. Calling is a positive move and not a negative one as is intimated by some of these posts. You make the call to learn and inform and not out of anger and spite. There is a huge difference that professional people are well aware of and most often able to discern.

As other moms have suggested, if you haven't already begun to do so now is the time to have the "good touch, bad touch" conversation. There are some good books geared to a child her age that also have a page to help parents with this conversation. You can find some at the public library. A general rule to give her is that the area of her body that would be covered by a swimming suit is private. Then you can tell her who in her life is OK to see that area.

I liked Faye's post with a list of rules. Modify those to fit your family. Having such a list will make it easier for kids to know what is appropriate and what is not in your family. I raised a foster/adoptive daughter and relied often on the phrase "in our family." This is a positive way to teach values without judging others' values.

Tell the little boy and his father that you don't want him to come over any more. So the guy won't like you - it doesn't matter. It is what is best for your daughter. Your only obligation is to protect your child, not to win popularity contests with your neighbor. To hell with what he thinks.

I would go over and tell him, frankly, you feel that his son is too old to be playing with your daughter and you would appreciate if he didn't come over any more to ask. If he pushes for why - tell him. If he argues it didn't happen, you stand by your guns and tell him there is no way a child as young as yours would know anything about that to even KNOW to lie about it. Which is precisely why you are requesting no more playdates.

The other option is to still allow him to come over, but only supervised play at your house. I know another Mom said to tell your daughter that he can't come over because of showing private parts.... eh. I am mixed on this. My concern would be that SHE is going to feel punished because she can't play with her friend. If you tell her this is why, and she really doesn't think it was a big deal, or "bad" since she wasn't "hurt" (kids mind) - she may not want to tell you in the future because you won't let her go back to that friends house. While she's this young, I personally, think its best to tell her he needs to find friends his own age.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

I would make sure you are not jumping the gun before calling in DHS. Once you get the authorities involved, it becomes very hard to take back accusations. I agree that the age difference does seem like a problem, but I have a 3 and 7 yr old and we have teenage neighbors that like to play in our backyard and my kids enjoy the attention. Many people have children that range in age and still play together so I wouldn't just outlaw all playing based on the age difference.
That said I would also make sure they only play on your property and you have direct supervision. Don't give an opportunity for your daughter to be alone with the kid and his father.

Something similar happened with me when I was your daughter's age. I started to type out the details here, but even though it was 42 years ago, I still feel too embarrassed to describe it in this forum. Anyway, my mom figured out that something was amiss. She sat me down and said that the activities that were happening weren't okay, that I hadn't done anything wrong but that the boys that were paying attention to me were not really being friends and that I needed to not be alone with them. I was actually relieved, because as much as I enjoyed the extra attention, I felt something wasn't right about it. My four-year-old brain just didn't know what. Be sure you try to connect with your daughter on this, acknowledge that she's probably having conflicting feelings about it, and let her know you love her. Regardless of how you choose to proceed with the neighbor, protecting your daughter and dealing with her feelings that might include shame and guilt are very, very important.

why did you let your 4 year old play with a 8 y/o boy?that's is a big red flag.

i would not let my kids play and never leave my kid when he was 4y/o playing alone with others kids,i was always supervising him.

just tell the kid she can not play with him anymore and thats it.

You have already gotten a lot of great responses and I will just add my two cents:

If your REALLY want to let your child play outside by herself fence your property (high fences make better neighbors...) and put a lock on the gate, so she can't get out and noone else can get in.
You say you have a pool - make sure that is fenced and gated as well, if she's going to play by herself.

Then start making friends with other neighbors and invite them over for playdates if you like them. If that isn't an option look into sending your daughter to a preschool for some peer interaction. It is boring for kids that age to play by themselves all the time.

Once she has a few new friends and gets to play with others on a regular basis, she will lose interest in this boy really fast (he's too old to play with her anyways). I bet she's just begging to play with him because he is the only kid that is close and that she now knows.... give her a chance to make some new connections and she will stop asking.
Good luck!

Wow. Like someone said, Marda knows best. Remember, she is only 4, what she wants in this case is irrelevant. It may all be innocent "you show me yours" stuff but best to assume that it is NOT. To entice her to play "his way," the boy may be giving her candy or some other treat that she finds exciting and fun, but she will forget about him if you distract her. The onus is on you to invite friends to your home or take your daughter out more. Perhaps you can set up one or two playgroups at your house -- invite 3 other girls each time. Your daughter will have a great time and forget about this boy.

Tell the boy why she can't play with him! "Sorry she can't play with you because you acted inappropriatly with her. She says you showed her private parts of your body and that you kissed her. We believe her and you need to find some childern your own age to play with because you are not welcome to come over here and play with her and she will definetly not be coming over to your house EVER AGAIN!!!!!
You then explain to your daughter that everything he did to her was wrong and that he has some problems he needs to work on with self control and discipline. That he is not a nice little boy or her true friend or he would not have treated her that way. If the dad confronts you, just tell him that as the kids get older it's just not appropriate for a 4yr old girl to be playing with a 8yr old boy all the time especially unsupervised.
My opinion is you don't need to worry about what anyone (your daughter, the boy or his dad) think about this. You KEEP YOUR DAUGHTER AWAY FROM THAT BOY! You play with your daughter, she can play by herself, find some girls her age and get together for playdates once or twice a week.

While it is very normal to be curious about each others bodies and perhaps a kiss at this age can be deemed innocent we live in a world where kids are exposed to way too much.

In our home we have body rules. Some of them reflect our religious beliefs (we believe our body is a sacred gift), but some of them may work for you.

1. We look after our bodies by eating good food, exercising and bathing regularly.
2. We don't do drugs or alcohol or any other substance that could harm our bodies.
3. We dress modestly to keep our bodies covered and to show respect for it and we don't speak crudely about our bodies.
4. We don't touch our special body parts becuase they have a special purpose.
5. We do not touch anyone elses special body parts and no one may touch ours except a medical professional to check for a problem and then only with mummy or daddy in the room. Mummy and Daddy can see and touch a special body part if they need to wash you or help check you for a problem.

We periodically review these and we always have a discussion about what may be appropriate affection between us as a family (hugs and kisses) isn't always appropriate for other people. We tell them how there is a level of commitment in our relationships that allow us to hug and kiss but that may not be appropriate to show other people as we don't have the same relationship.

We also have talked about the way mummy and daddy kiss and how that wouldn't be appropriate for us to kiss them that way or for them to kiss another person that way unless they were ready to make a commitment to them to get married etc.

We have a little bit of a laugh when we do it so its not too serious. I have five boys and I feel that I need to feel comfortable that my boys know the proper way to act around others as boys do tend to be a little more relaxed with their bodies.

Rules and an appropriate attitude about her body will help her see what is right and wrong. She will be better able to defend herself.

As for playing with him you are right, too big of an age gap. We don't live in the same times as we used to. Some children these days have been exposed to pornographic movies while their parents lay drunk.

My kids also no stranger danger info and techniques so they know this kind of interaction isn't appropriate. (We had a 13 yr old boy try to come and play with them! ) It was the perfect time to review our rules and luckily he never came back. (I just kept telling him they couldn't play.)

Squash this immediately!!!! The boy comes over, you tell him EXACTLY why you don't approve! You tell him what your daughter has mentioned AND you tell his father! How anybody doesn't say anything boggles the mind! Hoiw do you know the father doesn't "watch" or "encourage" the behavior? So many sick stories out there and you need to be proactive. Best of luck!

OK. I'd like to kick it down just a notch.
First of all, you don't have any real facts.
I'm not saying your daughter is lying, at 4, I doubt she would make up something out of the blue. BUT it could be an exaggeration or she could be repeating back words like "kiss" and "butt" that she has heard him use. Maybe she showed him hers and maybe she didn't. Maybe he asked her to. All I'm saying is I know that it's hard to get a straight factual informational account of an even from a 4 yo!
I wouldn't go calling the police or CYS! That is a VERY serious move and you need to consider it all very, very carefully first.
If the facts warrant it, then by all means, do call. But be very, very cautious.
You need to explain to your daughter about good touch vs. bad touch. Explain the parts of her body covered by her bathing suit are private and not to be shown to anyone. Explain that if anything like that is asked of her or done to her, she needs to tell you asap.
You say you've "recently" moved. How long have you known this family? I'm not throwing blame but I don't think I'd let my 4 yo girl go into ANY house with an 8 yo boy and his single dad unless I knew them very, very well.
My 7 yo son has 7 yo friends that are girls and my hubby is VERY aware that it is not appropriate for just him to be home if a girl is at our house. It just eliminates any tricky wickets. Simple fact.
As for the posts saying there is "something wrong" about an 8 yo wanting to play with a 4 yo, I disagree. I have an only son and many, many of his friends have younger sisters and he always plays with them, too, when at their homes! I get compliments that he is O. of the rare friends who doesn't "ditch" or ignore the sisters. That's not necessarily a bad thing. also, sounds like your homes are isolated so he may be excited to have someone new to play with. Maybe he's lonely, and a 4 yo girl is better than playing with NO O.!
Again, I'm playing devils advocate here. Just make sure you get your facts before you push the panic button. Can you get to know this boy? Could they play at your house? In your yard with your supervision?
Good luck to you and your family!

You need to not care what they think of you and nicely tell the dad you and your husband have decided that your daughter is only allowed to play with kids her own age. If this is too harsh for you, add,'unless I am with her in the yard' not just looking out the window.

If he presses you in any way, keep your tone friendly and say, "Well, your son is really nice, and I know this is totally normal kid stuff, but he has pulled his pants down in front of our daughter before, and she's just to young for that. No offense, we're not upset at all, you're a great dad and neighbor and we really like you both, but it's the new rule. She has to follow it with other kids too. Thaks for understanding."

Even if this pisses him off, he cannot force you to let your daughter play with his son or go into their house.

She should have never ever EVER been allowed in there ever at all in the first place without you even for one minute no matter how nice they are. This is your responsibilty, not your daughter's.

Let his dad know she is absolutely never allowed in their house or anyone else's without you.

Be friendly and wave to them etc, and stick to your guns.

call the dhs and make sure that kid isn't getting molested. and do not let your kid go over there no matter what. have them play at your house and always in your sight.

Eight is a little old to want to play exclusively with a four yr old. However, is he mentally challenged in some way?? He may be mentally closer to her age or even below it. And it might explain the inappropriateness if he doesn't understand boundries. However, if none of the above applies, you will just have to keep insisting that she not be allowed to hang out with him. You might even want to let her know that your reason for this is because he was taking his pants down and having her do the same/doing it for her. Explain it in terms that she can understand but reiterate that your looking our for her safety and best interest here. This might also be a good time for the "privates should remain private" and "good touching/bad touching" conversations. Until you do, she might not really understand why she can't go over there.

As for the dad of this boy, despite his ideas that his son walks on water, I think you should still let him know the situation. This way, he's got the heads up that his son was being inappropriate and if he chooses to ignore it, at least you know you tried to make him aware of it.

I completely agree with Ashley and Rebecca. I'm glad you're concerned.

Hi, I wasn't going to respond but read your post again and am very disturbed by it. Please go talk to the police about it. I work with abused/neglected children. He may be getting abused by his father and if that's not the case at least you tried. If you're not willing to get involved at least don't let your daughter play with him anymore.

I have a 5 year old girl, and she is suddenly interested in exploratory behavior and I can assure you there is nothing going on it our house. I think its normal for kids to want to see what each other's private parts look like, they are forbidden after all... I worry about my daughter and how people might percieve her because she has recently pulled her pants down for a boy neighbor her age. We have discussed that it is inappropriate and talked about privacy and the people that it is ok to show. I also worked in daycare for years, and I can tell you from experince that kids just go through this phase and it is completely normal.

I would be leery of letting my daughter go to the neighbors house, and I see your concern over the older boy and single dad. I might be ok with having the child to play at my house instead where I could keep an eye. Reinforce with your daughter privacy and the people who it is ok to show (Mom, Dad, a doctor). Im not saying you should take it lightly, but it might not be as bad as you are thinking.

Keep your child away. I would move if possible. Your insticts are correct. You don't want your 4 yr old daughter in therapy because of this situation.
I would not let that other child anywhere near my children. If you decide to stay in that house that dad probably give you problems. Reslove this TODAY!

I agree that this situation is very inappropriate, however you cannot also say that you "don't want to have to leave".
She's four, which means she's JUST getting into the social aspect of being a human, and this should be nurtured. There must be local places- libraries that have story time, mom groups that have meetups with children of similar ages etc.
Playing at your own home is nice, but she does need friends, so instead of letting her reach out to an older child who is inappropriate, give her friends that are her age that she can enjoy playing with and learn new things with.
:)
Good luck, remember social interaction is VERY important at this age!

I have to say I agree with everyhing Denise S said. I am sure that *something* inappropriate happened, but it could simply be that they were talking about butts. As I read your post I didn't get the feeling that you were thinking in terms of something as serious as the other posters are thinking. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe this should be taken very seriously. But I was taking that cue from the fact that you aren't talking to your doctor to see whether something happened, and you aren't thinking it is serious enough to want to go find other playmates for her outside of your immediate vicinity. And you say that you always went over and brought her home- was she ever alone with him long enough for something so serious to happen? Did you get her immediately or let her stay a little while? Was she out of your line of sight for any length of time even playing outside?

I absolutely think she should be kept away from him. I wouldn't trust the boy (or father), and she shouldn't be playing in a virtual stranger's house. Just the description of the father saying foul things would have me thinking that. I would have her looked at by a doctor, and if you really think something has happened, get a referral for a psychologist. Questioning a young child is a delicate thing, and needs to be handled very carefully. If done improperly, you can plant ideas in their heads that never happened, and no one wants their child to have memories of things that never happened. And filing a CPS report is not to be taken lightly. Not just because you need to be careful about harming the other party unjustly, but also to protect yourself. If you file a false report, you are opening yourself up for defamation of character lawsuit. I think getting better information and a checkup by a doctor are in order before making accusations. In the meantime, just tell the boy and his father that you are uncomfortable with the age difference and don't want them to play together, until you get a better picture of what happened. Good luck! I'm hoping for the best possible outcome for you.

Tell the boy, no when he comes to the door. Tell him you are no longer comfortable with your daughter playing with him, as he is a boy, 4 years older than her. She needs to develop friendships with girls and with children her own age. (That, you can tell the Dad too, if pressed). Teach your daughter about privacy and what is inappropriate. Tell her this boy cannot be trusted to be a playmate any longer, because what he did was very wrong. Make sure you tell her SHE did nothing wrong, she did the right thing by telling you. AND also, that you will help her find more children her age to play with, and follow through with playdates, activities, etc. Keep her busy. And never, ever, let her outside out of your sight. Your daughter will be sad for awhile to lose him as a playmate, but she'll get over it once she is out of the habit of playing with him, and she'll get over it sooner if you keep her busy. Trust your instincts and avoid that family.

I would keep my daughter as far away from him as I can. This is a child who obviously has a problem - not many 8 yr old boys want to play with a 4 yr old girl. You may have to tell your daughter no and exactly why - so she knows this is inapproriate behavior. You may also have to come to the point of telling the neighbor also.
If you are trying to avoid the confrontation right now- the next time the boy comes over tell him your daughter can't play - she will call him and invite him over when she can and when it is convenient for you.

Bite the bullet and talk to the dad. So what if he calls you names. This is your daughter & this behavior is serious. You can alway coach the conversation that you are concerned about his son. Don't make it confrontational. If she wants to play with him, it has to be on your terms. In your house with supervision. Never alone.

Hi, L.:

I would suggest that you don't avoid this situation but call a meeting with father and son and your husband and daughter with yourself.

Ask the boy these questions:
1. what happened?
2. What were you thinking of at the time?
3. What have you thought about since?
4. Who has been affected by what you have done? In what way?
5. What do you think you need to do to make things right?

Ask your daughter these questions:

1. What did you think when you realized what had happened?
2. What impact has this incident had on you and others?
3. What has been the hardest thing for you?
4. What do you think needs to happen to make things right?

Both of the families come up with solutions to this issue.
Instead of avoiding confront head on. You would do this child any favors
by letting it go. He will become worse with time.
Good luck. Thanks for asking for help. The boy needs help now.
D.