Is It Offensive?

If you asked the question because you really wanted to learn and understand more, than you are being open minded, not closed. If you asked the question sarcastically, as in you "really don't believe how anyone could be so totally gullible," then you are being closed minded. So, only you know what you meant, how you felt, when you asked the question-so only you can determine whether you are being open minded or closed.

I don't think you were being closed minded if you asked with a genuine interest and did not get catty about it. FAITH is hard to understand and you have to get over "logical" thinking in order to have faith. Some people just can't get past the logistics.

I don't think you're being closed minded. You're trying to understand. You're asking questions. That's NOT being closed minded.

Not being able to understand doesn't make you closed minded. Not understand AND not accepting that others have that faith (or lack of faith as the case may be) THAT makes you closed minded.

I have absolute faith and I do not find anything you said offensive.

I know I will get eye rolls for this, but by you "wanting" to know more, that is God talking to you...

I have faith you will find your way.

You know, it's really hard to speak a sentence without offending SOMEONE in SOME WAY, right?

Maybe God IS talking to them. I've never "heard" God "speak" to me....but I have thought about & prayed about things and felt convinced to take O. road or the other and was GLAD I decided what I did after all was said & done.

I can't see air, but I'm certain it exists.

Thats just the point though faith is believing without seeing. There is really no way to explain a persons absolute faith in God unless you have experienced it for yourself. I would have been offended but i am a true believer i do not doubt God or his power at all, i have what you would call absolute faith. Now can i explain this feeling to someone else,NO but i also dont think that you phrased your response properly in stating "these people believe that God is talking to them" . If you want to know how that feels to have that close personal relationship with God, attend church, read a bible,pray for guideancce with and open mind and heart and you may get to experience this blind faith for yourself.

Tone is difficult to convey accurately. Your tone may have been more offensive than your words. The context you used made her feel as though you were questioning how anyone could believe this stuff, even thought that wasn't your intenetion. Saying "I dont know how anyone can believe without doubt" is somewhat offensive. Even if you put a qualifier on it, it implies that no rational person could believe it.

BTW - Since you want to understand, I've never heard an actual voice but I have had a very real revelation. I didn't even know what that meant until it happened to me. All of a sudden a sohpisticated, well thought out, sublimely profound, fully formed, concept popped into my head that was no thought of my own. Trying to repeat what was revealed to me in an instant would've taken 30 minutes at least. It was all about my relationship with my husband and it was the absolute opposite of what I wanted to hear or expected to hear but in the long run, was 100% in perfect and worked out wonderfully. That was the one and only time I heard God speak to me and I have no doubt at all. I wasn't raised to believe tis, I've not drunken the kool-aid or whatever. I just know in my knower! The same way you know things instinctively.

no it's not offensive at all. You were asking a valid question and wanted a real answer. I am someone who believes with everything I have that God is real. I talk to him daily through prayer. I don't physically hear him, but he answers in other ways.

It really depends on how you worded it and your responses to your atheist friends.

Just from what you wrote here I could see how people would be offended. You are kind of going on about how it is so unimaginable that these people believe. Take something you believe in, if someone went on about how unimaginable it is that you believe that wouldn't you feel like they were judging you?

Have you ever considered a judging person open minded?

It would not have offended me but it takes a lot to offend me. :)

Okay seriously you want to know how people speak to God. Yes I speak to God, I also speak to my grandma who passed away some 15 years ago. I am going to use her first because I think it is an easier concept for most people to understand.

I have a problem, grandma, what should I do? She speaks to me, not like Yoda, she speaks to me in my memories, my knowledge of her beliefs, what she would do in that situation. What she would tell me if she was still alive standing next to me.

It is the same thing with God, what should I do? There is a bible with stories of how we should behave. This guides our decisions, this is how God speaks to us.

So far as doubts of the validity of my beliefs, how can you not have doubts about your belief that god does not exist. You cannot prove God doesn't exist any more than I can prove he does.

Not offensive at all.

Faith is a pretty difficult topic...and discussion of faith is often rife with argument over semantics.

The thing is, faith is personal and subjective. It's built upon the foundation of self. How willing you are to have faith is related to what you've experienced in your life and how you view your self in this world.

Unfortunately, "faith," for some, is also equated with "naivety." Many offensive and unproductive debates often arise from this faulty assumption. Some of the wisest people who have ever walked this Earth were men and women of faith. And some of the wisest people were also atheists.

Why do we get into this debate? Socrates said it best: “To fear death, my friends, is only to think ourselves wise, without being wise: for it is to think that we know what we do not know. For anything that men can tell, death may be the greatest good that can happen to them: but they fear it as if they knew quite well that it was the greatest of evils. And what is this but that shameful ignorance of thinking that we know what we do not know?”

We don't know for certain what will happen after this life. We are not so wise, no matter how much or little fait we have. Let's not argue about it.

I think your mind actually sounds very open. Faith is hard to explain, IMO, its a very personal experience. I have an absolute faith in my personal relationship with Christ our Lord. I under ZERO circumstances consider myself to be a member of any religious group...I don't subscribe to labels.

Most people who have faith are very willing to discuss it and try to explain theirs. I run an almost constant dialogue in my head with Him all day. He guides me but he doesn't speak to me directly. I personally find that to be nonsense...but that's my opinion only.

Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy path

Im one who is very hesitant to trust others with interpretations of faith. Like I said, its very personal. If you have a hunger for understanding, reach out, but do with caution and ask Him to guide your way to the TRUTH.

I'm not so sure that someone saying, "Open your mind" is the same thing as saying "You're closed-minded." She probably took your comment as an atheist (agnostic?) as you said it: the concept of faith is something you don't understand. And you came off a bit, well, hoity toity with, "These people BELIEVE" that God is talking to them, and depending on how you phrased that it sounds very condescending.

It's saying that just because someone says they experienced something and they know they actually experienced, they only "believe" it happened and not that it actually happened. You know better than they do what happened to them and their perception of the experience. Some people go so far as to say that those of us with spiritual encounters and confirmations of faith are delusional and unintelligent.

Taking that read from your words, why would you then be offended if she said, "Open your mind to the possibility that this happens and it's real..."

I get the sense that what she was saying was to open your heart and your mind willingly to the possibility and thus invite in the Holy Spirit. It was an invitation, not an insult, in her mind. I just have a feeling you're reading intent where there isn't and she said it in a far different meaning than you're finding.

I don't think so. I believe in God, but there are people out there that I am astounded at how much faith they have! I know a woman who quit her job because she couldn't get to church on Sunday and that is where she felt she needed to be. She was sure God would take care of her.

That to me is complete and udder faith. She was right too, she found another job pretty quickly and is doing great.

Look at it this way. Everyday you put your faith in something that you can not have 100 percent validity on. People believe in things all the time they can not prove. I can not prove that my spouse loves me, but I have faith that he does. How is that so different?

Devout Christian here and no, I would not be offended. I am UCC though, and we're a left-leaning bunch. : )

Anyway - I can only help you understand *me*. I was on a "spiritual path" of sorts but was not a person of faith until I had a conversion experience I could not deny. If it had not happened to me, I probably would not have believed such things happened to anyone.

So...yeh...God talked to me, and sometimes still does. It was (and is) life-changing, Earth-shattering, and frankly terrifying. I know I'm not crazy, so I'm left with...faith. Though I was frightened, and sometimes still am, I find that life is much, much, much better for me if I "let go" and trust God.

I think for people who do not have such an experience, faith is a journey. And I admire them for embarking on to their (presumed) betterment without some life-altering vision to prompt it. They may talk to God (as I do) without any thoughts (or fears) that there will be an answer, because it helps them find their way.

Regardless of what one thinks of God or faith in general, an examination of what it truly means to follow a Faith might help you understand why so many people do so, even while accepting it's not for you. For example, Buddhists have no "God" per se but follow a faith discipline that takes them on a path that many admire/aspire to - but cannot achieve without truly embarking on that path. Does that help?

As an aside, it may not have been your post that offended. Speaking as someone who has a number of atheists in my life, I find that *some* of them can be very nasty about faith, casting all followers as idiots.

I don't think you are being close-minded. You are just asking questions. What's the harm in that?
There used to be a guy that stood out on the street corner on my way home that was talking to God. Ranting and carrying on, laying down in the busy street. He said God told him to lay down in the street- that God would protect him. After causing a wreck that injured several people, the state considered him mentally unwell- a threat to himself and others. At some point, even with all the faith in the world, we have to have some logic about the whole thing. It's a fine line. I get what you are saying. :)

Not at all. I totally get what you mean.

I have had experiences in my life where I know beyond any doubt that the spirit is real, therefore there must be something to this whole religion thing....

I know that I have been held in the arms of some being that is not of this world, I could not feel my feet touching the ground, I felt so much unconditional love that I just melted on the inside, I was so full of that love that it carried me along for weeks.

I know that was the Holy Spirit, I know I experienced something that not many people can understand.

I know that early one morning I was in a deep sleep and I suddenly woke up with a prompting to call me mom. I knew I was supposed to talk to her right then and not wait. I didn't have a phone so I woke my (then, now ex) husband up and asked him to drive me to the nearest pay phone. He laughed at me and went back to sleep. He truly thought it was just a bad dream. I called my mom's house as soon as I got to work and there was no answer. I called my sister and her hubby told me she was at the hospital, my mom had a heart attack at the exact time I woke up. She laid there until she could get up and get to the phone to call for an ambulance. I would have known something was terribly wrong if I had called during the night and she not answered. I could have went over to check and got her to the hospital much sooner.

I know it was the Holy Spirit. I know he is real, therefore God and Christ must be real too. I know what I have experienced, I don't go to church anymore but will never be able to deny what I have had happen to me.

I feel that my atheist friends are people who just have not had the Holy Spirit touch them. I do believe that sometime in their life they may experience something like I did.

I wouldn't say your being offensive if you truly do want to understand it and its not a mockery to the ones who do believe.

I will never push my religion or faith on anyone... but I will tell you that when my prayers have been answered and to feel God all around you is amazing! When you open your mind and heart to Him and you can hear or feel him to "talking" to you its a wonderful thing!

Not all religions are the same, if you are really open to finding out what its all about go to a few different churches and talk to the pastors there and find one you are interested in and once you do open your mind and heart to him and ask him to come into your heart you will find out exactly what these people are talking about. Nobody can completely describe it but it is wonderful and a blessing imo to be able to have felt that feeling... its like no other feeling out there... I guess if I had to compare it to anything worldly it would have to be the same feeling as holding your child for the first time.

Not sure how anyone would be offended by the statement. I would think they would have used this time to explain what they believe.

Faith-Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1, KJV).

Not offensive at all. It really shocks me what people get "offended" about.

no.. its not like u posted saying wow this is so stupid.. u said u wanted to understand and were fascinated by it.. its not like u were making fun of it or anything

No, I don't think she said sounded offensive, and I don't think what you said sounded offensive.

and to elaborate on the actual question... I have felt God speak to me directly.

I don't find this topic offensive but realize it is to others. Your post would not have offended me in the least, but I guess that's also due to the fact that I'm extremely open-minded & don't believe in any deities. If you get any actual answers to your question please post in the SWH because truthfully the very concept of faith in this manner interests me as well.

You weren't trying to be offensive, but she was, by trying to put you in your place. And what she doesn't "get", is that she isn't helping you open your mind - she is doing the opposite.

People like her just feel very defensive about the subject. Because they CAN'T prove it, they strike out.

There are plenty of people who can eloquently describe their faith, Mom. Pay attention to THOSE people. Don't let this friend who wishes to squash you define your belief or disbelief.

I would not have found your post or hers to be offensive. She sounds a bit defensive, maybe even angry, but that is to be expected. It can be startling or feel like an attack when someone questions your deeply held beliefs. I think that coming at the issue from a position of wanting to understand and not being judgmental is good, but what about your atheist FB friends? Were THEY also being respectful? Or were they being derisive or judgmental? I know that atheists can be just as defensive and even angry when their own beliefs are challenged.

As for the question of faith, you almost certainly DO HAVE FAITH IN SOMETHING; it's just a question of what. Do you believe that there is oxygen in the air you breathe? You can't see it, but you believe that it is there because you can observe the EFFECTS that it has upon you (i.e. you are not suffocating). It is the same with many other principles, you may not be able to KNOW FOR SURE, but you believe based on what you experience yourself, or you trust in the accounts of others who tell you something (like when your significant other tells you he loves you, you choose to believe that it is true). When you have faith in something you are trusting that what you believe to be true, is. People who believe in God (like me) observe certain phenomena and trust in the observations of others (like prophets) and conclude that God truly exists. There are always alternative hypotheses, (like there is no God and we are simply sentient animals with no creator, or your husband doesn't really love you and is only lying to you to spare your feelings) but everyone chooses which explanation they believe to be true. That is what faith feels like.

Your post was not offensive. You were not rude, you were not disrespectful.

Your friend was. Her response and her text was offensive.

I am a person of faith and I don't find your question to be closed minded or offensive in the least. It sounds to me like you are genuinely curious about the phenomenon of faith. That being said, there are some topics (politics, religion) that naturally divide people and regardless of how benign the question or conversation, some people will find a way to take offense. But that says much more about them than it does about you.

And as to your original question, you're right - faith is not something that can be completely understood until experienced. Faith does comes naturally to me. I have much more of a scientific mind and don't accept much without proof. The only thing I can say is that I have experienced a spiritual proof that goes beyond my 5 senses. I have chosen to live my life for a time going against God's plan and I have lived in harmony with His plan. It was an experiment of sorts (I didn't set out to have it be that way, but in hindsight I see it that way). I know that I have been much happier trying my best to follow Christ and I have felt a love & acceptance in my life that is unmistakable. My faith has been based on feeling God's love so often that I now recognize it when I feel it. I now feel that when I ask for direction, I often get it & it has never steered me wrong. For me, that has been proof of His existence. If you want to know for yourself, the best way is to approach God in prayer with an open heart & mind and see what happens. I wish you all the best!

In a word - no. I, too, would like to understand the absolute faith that others have. But then I'm not that kind of person! :) A friend of mine told me once (when we were talking about her converting) that she believed that God would prefer that you came to him as a thinking man, rather than a sheep with no questions. I decided she was right - and haven't tried to experience "faith" since then.
Just because *you* don't experience their faith - that doesn't make you close minded. I would say that you're open minded because you asked!

I wouldn't take it that she was calling you out on being close minded, I thought she was just trying to define faith as something that comes with being "open"

It's so hard to use the right words when you talk about stuff like this. because how do you be more open? That's what you are openly asking. but you can't tell someone how to be open. Just like you can't really describe the feeling of being in love. It's tricky.

So from what your wrote here, i would not be offened, but you do need to know it is a sensitve topic and people can project lot of their own baggage onto it and end up twisting your words. --not saying that is what she did-- just saying know that this is a sensitve topic.

I don't think your post was offensive and if your friend took offense then there are some serious issues in her faith. I am not an Evangelical Christian, but I have had experiences where God has talked to me. Faith is an easy concept if you think of it more tangible. For me I have been blessed and helped by God that faith comes easy for me. For others they need to have something more. Think of it like this. You have a brain right? I don't know you do, but I assume you do. I have faith that inside your body there is a brain. I cannot see it, I cannot touch it, I cannot feel it, but I know it is inside your body. I have this quote I use for all of my atheist friends... By Frederick Neichi who said he was an atheist. " First you must say that there is a God, to deny there isn't a God". So with all that said, to question and seek is not an offense.

Not offensive. Keep your mind open and keep searching for truth. It is out there. Note that people who are not interested in finding and living truth are the ones "offended" by those who are. Ignore them. They are the problem.