I Need Advice on How to Handle Defiance from My 9 Year Old

Sounds like he is realizing his own power/control. I think what you have done is great. I would also address his assertion of power directly...and agree with him. Encourage him to take responsibility for his choices, good and bad. He does get to make his own decision to do as he's told. You just need to emphasize that when he chooses to disobey he also chooses the consequences (whether that is no TV or no friends over or no video games...or whatever). Just make sure to praise him and give him positive "consequences" when he makes good choices...we tend to forget about that part.
Seems he is on his way to becoming a responsible young man.

I also have a very strong minded young man. As one of my parenting books put it, boys need to know three things:

1.) Who's the boss?
2.) What are the rules?
3.) Are you going to enforce them?

To have a strong positive relationship with a boy, YOU need to be the boss and a very kind one. Only set rules you can enforce and always enforce them. (He may need to know WHY there's a rule for something, so explain your reason for it.) From that will come respect and more importantly, trust.

My son is now 14 and taking psychology in school. When they covered the unit on the adolescent brain, he told me that he while he didn't always like me (and his dad) when he was younger, he really appreciates us now and understands why we did things. I know we still have many challenging years ahead of us as driving, curfews and girlfriends enter the picture, but knowing that we are doing things for his good, not to control him, helps him understand the rules and why he must follow them.

An idea for the TV / cable: we opted to get Tivo / DVR service. We let the kids choose shows to record, we approve them and add a lot more from the History Channel and Discovery Channel as well. They only watch from that list of recorded shows. It's worked out well for us and to be honest, both my kids go weeks without watching TV and it's great for me to be able to watch those not quite child appropriate shows when it's convenient for me.

As someone who has worked in elementary schools for several years, I have to report that I have heard teachers, principals, etc. make statements like that to students at school!
The idea is to teach personal responsibility, and making choices. So when kids say "he made me do it", they tell the kids that no one can make you do something, only you can control you.

Your son sounds very smart! And that is actually pretty low level defiance, all things considered. Listen when he says things like this, and ask him to explain. Does he think you are making a wrong call (like a bad referee in a game), or does he think he just shouldn't have to do anything that he is told, at all?
It matters if he is saying it in a challenging or intimidating "make me" kind of way, or if he is just being sincere, thinking things through, as a smart kid does.

Make sure he understands that the "negative consequences" of not following/respecting rules are NOT JUST the punishments like losing tangible items or special activities. There are actually worse consequences he can't see...
I tell my sons that the MOST important rewards and punishments are in the ways people FEEL toward them. If someone lies, cheats, steals, breaks rules, or is defiant or rude to me---I am not happy with them. I might feel anger, resentment, sadness... and I don't trust them anymore and I lose respect for them (for a while at least). Then I am in a bad mood, and I don't enjoy being around them for some period of time, and when they want me to do something for them, I will probably say no.

This is how things work between child peers, and between adults, and between parents and kids. The reverse would also be true---if you let down your son in a big way, if you don't fulfill his reasonable expectations, he's going to be looking at you differently! Like if you forget to pick him up at school or don't provide food for him, or if you start lying to him---you could tell him he can't control you, and that would be true...but he would feel insecure, unsafe, confusion, fear, lack of trust, anger. His whole world would be turned upside down if you suddenly started behaving that way. But there wouldn't be anything HE could do to CONTROL you and make you behave the way he would think you should!
This is not a threat to make, by the way, just a way of helping a kid see the other person's perspective, and think...
It's not about freedom, or age, or controlling anyone. There are unwritten contracts in families and friendships. We want to meet the expectations of family and friends because we care about them--we want to trust each other and meet each others needs. If we only think of ourselves, it all falls apart.
If your son understands this, he will choose his battles carefully, and he will learn to negotiate and back up his reasoning with any facts he can gather. This IS like a (good)teen, and if he is that smart and mature, he might be like a teen sometimes.
But also remind him that it is YOUR JOB to keep him safe, and to teach him the proper way to act so he can be a good kid/teen/adult, so he should trust you to do that job. And if he doesn't understand or doesn't agree with something, he should talk to you about it respectfully when both of you are calm.

Hello J.: Having raised several sons who are all wonderful young men let me promise you that you will survive. I found that advice from the books by Dr. James Dobson helped a great deal and reminding them of how grateful I am for there being apart of the family helped as well.
Our sons will test their thoughts on mother most of the time rather than dad. One would think that dad would get it because they are men buteach and every young man I know wants to be sure of their mother's boundries and safety of her love and acceptance of the changes they are going through.
My older sons, were agressive, firm in their convictions, and defied the laws of gravity more than once. They did not watch a lot of television because they were to busy. But they were and are great thinkers.
I have a rather different way of handling defiance that you might consider. I found that it was a testing battle of wills and I had to remember that I was the parent not the friend. So I have a "Ugly Jar" of chores that I want done and are physical in nature so they worked off steam. I had my 9 year old once trim a tree-- now becareful with the instructions because I told him to trim the tree and the next thing I knew he had just about cut it down. But it was trimmed. I have had them dig vegetable gardens, plant flowers even completly empty out rooms so they can be cleaned and rearranged. I did not allow video games unless played where I could see them to monitor.
My one son is a police officer an he says that the trainging he was given at home and the learning to stay within the family boundries taught him alot. We have a friend who was a Resource officer for the local high school who gave us this advice" Send a child to his/her room and for many it is no big deal - they have a frig, phone,computer,television,and all else they need to sustain themselves. But have a child do physical labor and they learn self control so they don't have to do it again, or at least not often."
Good Luck in your adventure of parenthood. It is not the easiest assignment you will ever accept but I promise it will be a thrilling ride and worth ever minuet you put into it. Nana G

I'd turn off the cable. In fact I just turned ours off two days ago and we've been doing just fine without it. All of my favorite shows were over with for the season too so I thought it would be a good experiement and would save me 80 bucks a month. Do it. Neccesity is the mother of invention, he will hopefully "read" and find other good things to do without TV controlling his developing brain. Good Luck.

J.,

I feel for you. I experienced something similar with our daughter when she was about that age and I have regretted the way I didn't handle her disrespect. I was shocked and surprised and even a little impressed by her calm statement of defiance to me. I let it go and I have seen the trouble that it has caused through the years in our relationship. I see two issues in your situation. One is that your son needs to respect your authority. Do not let him disrespect you. Let him know just as calmly as he spoke to you that your responsibility as his mom is to care for him and to prepare him in the best way possible for a happy and secure life ahead. As a loving parent, you will give counsel, set boundaries and even discipline as needed for his benefit. He needs to trust you for that guidance, even when it is difficult for him. The second issue is that he is growing up and needs to be heard. He needs to learn how to express his frustrations in a healthy and helpful manner. Of course, this is not an easy or quick lesson. As his parents, you & your husband need to provide the instructions and methods for him. I understand why you sent him to his room for a break, but I would have added an instruction for him to go to his room to calm himself down and prepare "his case." Then in 15 minutes, you will hear both sides of the disagreement. Waiting until Dad gets home for a family meeting is too long for a young boy to wait. If Dad really needs to be part of the solution or decision, then meet again later, but allowing the boys to air their grievances in a timely manner will let out some of their steam and hopefully curb resentment and frustration. You are also providing a constructive direction for his anger this way instead of just adding frustration (now directed at you) for not dealing with his grievance and sending him to his room like a little kid. I hope this helps. I think you are a very loving and caring mom. Your boys are blessed.

Hi J.

I am the mom of a very precocious /spirited almost 3 year old. I did not find what your son said shocking or odd but rather a sign of a very independent kid.
My son already says things like this to me - but in a toddler way. For instance awhile back he told me "someday I gonna get tall and I gonna reach the office keys and I gonna get the vacuum and plug it in ALL BY MYSELF and vacuum the office and mommy no stop me! I , of course, asked him if I could get that in writing.....
Calling a family meeting and announcing that there will be no cable for the rest of the summer sounds like a great idea to me. In addition to addressing an immediate problem, he will also get the opportunity to think about himself as a member of a family instead of just thinking about himself. That's a lesson all kids need at some point!

I think you did the right thing, although he needs to know that the cable is gone because of his smart mouth, not because losing it will bring out a better side of you all. If he mouths off again, take something else away, and let him know that as long as he's living under your roof, he will abide by your rules, and if he doesn't, he will lose all his priveleges.

Then you should have a talk with him at some point (when the defiance issues are not under discussion, and when you are not at odds with each other) about how teenagers act rebelliously because during your teens, you are in the process of separating from your parents and becoming an adult. The most successful teenagers, and the most successful adults, are those who can learn as much as possible from their parents before they decide to separate from them completely.

You can point out that there is a reason that every creature stays with it's mother or it's parents until it is old enough and wise enough to get along on its own, and that humans are no different. We as a species have decided that at the end of adolescence, our offspring will have absorbed enough survival skills to try to make it on their own. This has been shown to be true, because kids who have no parental rules during their teens oftentimes just don't make it. There are exceptions, of course, but they are extremely rare.

You can let him know that every teen and every parent has to deal with these "separation pangs," and that he and you will be no different. But, he should be aware that whether he is nine or eighteen, as long as he is in your house, he will abide by your rules, because you want him to be successful as a teenager, and as an adult, and because "that's the way we do it in this family."

And, please note, you sound like you have done really well in raising a nice, well-mannered boy!

I agree with turning off the cable. Some shows just teach disrespect. I have never allowed my kids to watch MTV or the Simpsons even though it is a cartoon it is not at all tasteful. Have a family meeting and both you and Dad tell him he will do what he is told or he will have no fun with friends and things will be taken away until he he is sleeping on the floor. Show him in the Bible that it says to honor your mother and father. Get him involved in a nearby church youth group too.

I just got the book How to Talk so Kids will Listen and How to Listen so Kids will talk and have found the suggestions very helpful so far- I am dealing with 5 and 2 year old defiance.

We do fine without cable, but I would be wary of using this one act of defiance as an excuse to turn it off. Tell him you're cutting back to save money or something. If you take away cable for that, he may want to test the next limit to see what else you will take away... thus escalating the problem. Maybe at your family meeting you can discuss appropriate ways to treat each other and consequences for mistreatment. Sounds like you're doing OK to me since his behavior is mostly in line. Good luck!

Hi J.,
I actually got tickled by your little guys stand for independence. I know it must have been quite shocking and scary for you, but it's clear that he is really thinking about what being a teenager will mean. He's testing the waters with himself and you.

I recently read an amazing book "Loving Your Kids on Purpose" by Danny Silk. I wish I had read it before I had my children. On the back cover of the book it says "...this book teaches parents how to train children to manage their freedoms and protect their important heart-to-heart relationships.... Children were designed with the core need of freedom. To deny this or live ignorant of it eventually destroys the trust connection between parent and child."

Danny and Sheri have 3 children, but also have parented over 70 children in group homes, or through foster parenting, and the concepts they share have brought amazing healing to families. I loved this book so much I'm using it as part of a parenting conference we're doing along with our children's conference this summer.
Blessings to you and your family.
D.

J. - WOW!!! I think that you need to be very careful how you deal with him. I teach my kids first time obedience. Telling you "NO" is not acceptable. I think that is something that you need to nip in the bud. If you let him get away with it now, it will only get worse and move to other things. You CAN control him and tell him what to do, you are his parent. You know what is best for him. I think that there should definately be some consequences for his actions. And in the future, you need to follow up on what you say. That is why I say be careful what you say....if you are not at a point where you can deal with things, then don't tell him to do something and then not follow up when he tells you "NO". You cannot let him get away with bad behavior or his bd behavior will become the norm because he knows that there are no consequences. You need to figure out what is important to him and use that as his punishment. If it is video games, then you take them away for the day, next time he does it you take them away for a week, then 2 weeks etc.... and you tell him that is what is going to happen. If I were you since I didn't take care of it when it happened then I would sit him down and have a talk with him and tell him that is unacceptable, and if it happens again, these are the consequences and then you have to stick with it. Good Luck.

WOW!! Interesting. Quite the thing for a 9 year-old to say.

First of all, before you get too worried about this -- wait to see what he does the next time.

The truth is, all of what he said is actually correct! He IS the only one who can control himself. So maybe the response should be, "that's true."

I wouldn't worry too much, though, because the truth is, at 9 you still have TONS of control. And, you're probably still bigger than he is. If he doesn't obey you, you have the power to make his life a living hell. For example you can take away everything he holds dear.

When they are in 9th or 10th grade, then it becomes a lot more true that you have just about no power over them -- I remember the day that realization dawned on me.

So don't worry about him making that statement -- he sounds like a pretty sharp kid. Out of curiosity, at some neutral time it would be interesting to question him about where that idea came from.

Erin H., above, is right on.