I Just Don't Trust My Decision for My Daughter's Schooling Anymore

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I recently took a class on Educational Psychology as part of the PhD I'm working on, so I have a little insight into this, and I'm a mom.

There are many different tests that could be used to measure "cognitive ability". The problem with these tests is just what the woman told you, they really don't measure your daughter's thought processes, they measure what she's been taught. If they test a child, then put them through a formal class, then test them again, their "cognitive ability" scores would improve. This is true of all "IQ" tests - they do not measure intelligence and never were meant to be used to measure intelligence.

If you know that your daughter could qualify (if there was room) for the MST program, then I would think that she'll do fine in the regular Kindergarten. These tests do not measure your daughter's ability to learn. The other factor is her social development level, and you are the best judge of that.

My daughter, now in 3rd grade, qualifies for the G&T program because of her abilities in math and science. She has not been admitted to the program (which is only a part-of-the-schoolday program) because she has what could be considered a learning disability in writing (not reading, just writing). All our kids are unique and talented, and there are many opportunities for them as they go through their educations. As parents, we want the "best" for them, but there are many good options.

Because you are involved, your daughter will do great!

I hope you will read Nurture Shock, New Thinking About Children, by Po Bronson & Ashley Merryman. This book explores, through actual studies, why so many long-standing assumptions about children are wrong and keep society looking/moving in the wrong directions.

One chapter is on the actual numbers of the children who have been in Talented/Gifted programs for several years. When tested later, only about one in four or five would actually still qualify for the program. Unfortunately, the lower-scoring students are often kept in the programs for their entire educational careers without further testing, using up space that other children would use more productively.

Comforting? Well, it's not your fault that your daughter may not be able to take advantage of the program, and you can be assured that she is in very good company – many of her more worthy classmates are also losing that advantage.

Disturbing? Well, yes. For so many reasons. The system, as it stands now, is broken. Kids are tested too early, and the tests themselves are not nearly as revealing as they need to be.

Fortunately, it sounds like you could have her tested again next year. I'd do that, because a year's 'cognitive development' is HUGE for the preschool set. Whether or not she qualifies, I hope you and informed moms will begin looking into what needs to happen to this system, and begin taking the steps toward change that will help optimize future students' educational experience. My grandson is just approaching his public school years, and I expect our family will be fighting the good fight.

You can't do it alone, though. There is too much momentum behind "the way things are," and you may become identified as a trouble-maker. The woman you spoke with probably fields dozens-to-hundreds of calls every year from parents who are upset that their children didn't make the in list. It sounds like she simply went into an automatic defensive mode. You or I probably would, too, if we were in her position. She's working with hard-numbers (test scores), and there's not much she can do as an individual to sway the results. She wasn't listening to your specific questions.

PLEASE don't make the mistake of assuming your daughter will be disadvantaged or will not succeed in school or life because of this one event. Public school educations have strengths as well as weaknesses, and most of the kids in your daughter's generation will graduate on more or less equal footing.

And there is much you as a parent can do to enrich the education your child receives (you are probably doing many of these things already) – reading with her, letting her help you cook, shop, measure, calculate quantities and prices, taking her to museums, the library, playing challenging games, coaching her when she struggles with a problem, and so much more. In fact, there is an 'unschooling' style of homeschooling that consists largely of those 'enrichment' activities, with no formal book learning. And those kids tend to be wildly successful when they reach adulthood. They are not restricted in their thinking by traditional educations, and the world is a place where they feel confident and capable.

I'm sure you feel pretty discouraged just now. But you are facing a "machine" of a system, with its particular cogs and levers that have evolved slowly and sloppily over decades. That machine can not and will not change to become more "pro-student" until parents unite and demand changes. That will take more parents, and a longer and more concerted effort, than most young parents have the time or energy for, especially if changes will not happen in time for their own kids, so the system will simply continue to grow and evolve as it is, with policymakers making decisions about things they have little direct experience of. And with generation after generation of kids receiving less from their educations than is possible.

I'm sure you feel pretty discouraged just now. But you are facing a "machine" of a system, with it's particular cogs and levers that have evolved slowly and sloppily over decades. Do some reading about modern education. A pretty eye-opening starting place is to google "Alfie Kohn, education." Here's one of many links that you'll see: http://www.alfiekohn.org/index.php . Prepare to be surprised!

They enroll the kids by previous private school experience and per state funded public preschool.
It is skewed. In who they choose.

It is not you or your daughter.
It is their criteria.

That person, was curt and rude.
Don't take it personally.

But, you can ask to speak to someone else, who will explain the process and criteria.

Kindergarten, in many States, is NOT 'mandatory.'

Per age-cut off for Kinder entry, a child can enter at 5 or turning 5. Or 6 or turning 6. BUT, if a child is entering Kindergarten at 6 years old, SOME schools will put that child into 1st grade.
So, check with the school and see what their policy is.
And per 'when' you enter your child into Kindergarten.

Each school, is different.
And per who qualifies for GT programs or not.

Do not let your daughter think, she is lacking.
At this age, this is not important.
It is subjective.
Even in regular Kindergarten, it will be fine. I am sure.

MORE important at this age is their emotional maturity and social skills.
Not how smart they are or not. Or if they are in a GT program or not.

Cognitive ability means process of thought... and is essentially the ability to solve problems and concepts. You can learn more about what it encompasses here:
http://www.sharpbrains.com/blog/2006/12/18/what-are-cogni...

Really though, she is most likely going to be fine in kindergarten. Usually, it's if the children are socially able to handle to go which is the determining factor. Don't stress too much about this, or project meaning on your daughter's abilities simply because she didn't blow the test out of the water. Children can succeed no matter what 'programs' they are placed in or how much formal preschooling they have done.

If you really want to prepare her, you can work with her at home, playing games like memory, dominoes, playing matching games, going over the alphabet, numbers, spatial relationships like puzzles... even stores like Walmart and Target have preschool workbooks you can practice with at home.

I think I would call back or go see them. Either talk to the same person or her supervisor and say something to the effect that "I already called about this but ended the conversation being more confused than when I call. I am simply trying to UNDERSTAND what the scores/results actually mean." Then if the conversation again comes across the same way, you should tell them "I am sorry, it sounds like you think I am calling to complain. I am not. I am simply asking for clarification so I understand the results I am looking at. Is someone available that can explain it?"

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You should make an appointment with the guidance counselor at the school your daughter would be attending. If this is not easy to do and he/she does not readily meet with you I would say your fears about your district are justified. Our counselor and principal plus the Kindergarten teachers take private meetings all the time with parents of kids entering K-there are a ton of questions with the biggest being-should I send or hold. The school should be readily available to help with these.

I bet the lady had a knee jerk reaction to you because she probably gets so many parents upset b/c their kids did not qualify-thats what she thought you were. I wouldn't take it to heart.

It sounds like the lady was having a bad day. She handled the conversations inappropriately.

Your daughter is probably fine to start kindergarten, but I would encourage you to hold her back another year. It is an advantage to be the older child in a classroom. It can be a big disadvantage to be the youngest. I know from personal experience. Even into adulthood, this affected my social interactions with people and confidence. I do believe if I had not been the youngest and not forced into socially awkward situations with other students going through changes and life stages, I might have made better decisions at various points in my past. Not that I have not succeeded in life. I was valedictorian of my HS class and I am very successful. I just had to overcome a lot of emotional differences I don't believe would have been as extensive if I had been on the same page as my peers.

Good luck with your little one!

You are a good mom because you care...you are your child's most important advocate. If you don't understand something, that is so ok...it just means you have to ask questions, and Keep on asking questions until you do, sometimes it takes more than one phone call, sometimes it takes going in person. You got a person on the phone who was rude, and who did not answer your questions...that is in no way a reflection on you, that doesn't even mean that was a bad person, could have just been a bad day...you never know.
I would find out more and not knock yourself about it...there is a lot you can do to work on your child's skills at home.
I would not give up though...you are a good mom, don't give up, don't lose faith in yourself.

I have a daughter who started k when she was 5. She was ready, I thought, but in retrospect I wish I would have held her until she was 6. Like a previous poster said, she thinks she would have done better not being the youngest. My daughter did not turn 6 until June after her k year was over.

I'm not sure why there's such a big deal about GT programs, especially this young. My nephew was in a GT program all through high school. By the time his senior year was over, he hated it because of all the demands. He always had so much work and pressure. He went on to A&M and did well there too. He started the GT program in 7th grade. He is a very bright guy and we all knew that as young as 3. Instead of rewarding bright students with more opportunities to explore what they might be good at (and through that possibly contribute to inventions/new ideas) they punish them with additional work and deadlines.

Enjoy your daughter's k year and try not to worry about where she fits. She will be a success because you will stay involved in her school career. You, not the teacher or anyone else, are responsible for her education. With you behind her, she'll do well.

Just a different perspective!

Blessings!
L.

The individual teacher is the most important link in the chain for me. GT or not....if the student/teacher relationship is there and you have faith in their ability to lead and teach your child it is a positive environment for them. And you should stay.
No situation will ever be perfect. There will always be different personalities to deal with and they won't all be easy. Plus, the person you were talking to may have just been having a bad day. I wouldn't judge a school or hold my child back based on the phone conversation with one person on one day.
IMO