Did I Make the Wrong Decision? & Does Anyone Know Anything About Giftedness? SWH

sounds like she really groks and likes math. terrific!

the teacher is already offering to up the ante in fun and challenging reading for her.

it's not unusual for kids of all ages to claim that school is 'boring.' a great response to that is always 'what stuff are you interested in learning more about?' and YOU making that happen.

why not do academics with her at home? play othello with her?

the first place to *enrich* a child is at home.

khairete
S.

I think it’s a mistake to view kindergarten in particular, and elementary school in general, as an exercise in academics. Yes, reading and math facts play a role, but they are not the only things. While your daughter was wading into these things early on, other kids might have been problem solving, doing creative thought, developing skills at cooperation and socialization, becoming more mature, hearing rhymes or word nuances, story creation, and much more. While the teacher is assessing each child’s mastery (or lack of same) with the alphabet, and with only a few weeks of school under her belt, you’ve got your child focused on her boredom. I’m sure she is picking up on your stress and anxiety as well, no matter how well you think you are hiding it.

Your child has plenty of skills to learn this year. Maybe not in reading or math facts, but in other areas for sure. Patience and group process, for example. I’d encourage her to listen to the teacher, see if she can pick up something interesting that she didn’t already know or a different way to figure something out, and concentrate on other areas where we can always get better even if we have basic (or beyond basic) skills. If she conveys boredom, or disdain for those kids who are getting something out of the lesson, she’s going to have a very difficult time in school, this year and in future years. Meantime, she’ll tune out and not develop other skills and not develop friendships with kids she has come to think aren’t that advanced.

I think it’s a bit over the top to decide on “giftedness” based on one therapy session 2 years ago and one game of Othello.

I also think the greatest gift you can give your children is a confident and relaxed mom. You have many posts on Mamapedia in which you express your worries about many matters. I think that rubs off on kids, and your daughter may even miss out on some fun because she’s too worried about achievement and accomplishment.

If your child is gifted, she has many years to develop that. Meantime, she needs to accept that she has skills in some areas and not in others, and that other units will be more interesting. Give the teacher a chance to get to know all the kids and their skills/challenges. There just is no need to panic here and feel that you have made a mistake that will plague your daughter for all of her days. Academic achievement is just not the sole purpose of school. Please stop googling things and start enjoying your child and teaching her to enjoy all aspects of school and other people’s talents.

Many kids are "ahead" in preschool through second grade. Your daughter is pretty typical. Third grade is about the time when things start to even out, and most of the "slow" kids catch up, and in some cases, really take off academically. Teachers and other educational professionals will tell you this, and from what I remember with my own kids tests for gifted programs don't really start until then.

You need to ask your school district their testing criteria for their gifted program. In PA, the school is required to test within a certain number of days after written request from a parent. Testing can be done as early as kindergarten, and there are tests out there geared for that age. The criteria may simply be IQ, or it may be other qualities in addition to IQ. Your school district should have a policy. My understanding of the policy in my district is: 1) results of a battery of reasoning tests with scores better than 95th percentile plus recommendation from the teacher plus an IQ of at least 130 OR, 2) if a parent chooses to have the testing done outside of the school (meaning none of the other tests or recommendations are done) the IQ score has to be at least 140.

Do not beat yourself up about your decision to have her in TK. Here's the thing about giftedness - it does not mean that a child knows more. It means that the child learns faster, with fewer repetitions from the teacher, and with less practice. A gifted child will learn concepts more quickly (and then be bored) no matter what grade that child is in. This is why grade skipping alone often doesn't challenge gifted kids in the long term. They move up a grade, are challenged at first while they are catching up, and then if they are not enriched, they are bored again because as the class learns new material, the gifted child still learns that material faster than many of the other kids in the classroom and the teacher moves at their pace, not the gifted child's pace.

MOST IMPORTANTLY (hope this isn't lost in this long post) I've found that the best enrichment my kids get doesn't happen in school, despite my school's best effort (and I think my kids' school is great with excellent teachers). Enrichment happens at home when I encourage them to get books from the library that are at or just above their reading level (not their grade level, their reading level) or when we play board games and card games that require mental math. And at museums and the science center. And when hiking in the woods talking about the water cycle. Or by doing the junior ranger program at the closest national park when we go on vacation. YOU are your child's BEST source of education regardless of her IQ.

I don't know if your child is gifted or not. But if you want to find out if your child qualifies for gifted services at her school, you need to start with the school and learning what your district policy is for assessing giftedness.

I have seen anecdotes about gifted kids being more difficult, but my gifted kid is the most flexible, laid back person I know. So I don't buy that one.

I would not at all worry about the fact that her kindergarten teacher is teaching the alphabet. She has to start somewhere, and some of the kids might not know it very well. It is still so early in the year. It's normal for teachers to do some review work in the beginning, but don't let that give you the impression the entire school year will be super easy things your daughter already knows.

I teach college, so it's a bit different, but after the first day I always have a few students that tell me they already knew all of the material I taught and are convinced they are in the wrong class. Well, the first day is just review. It will get more challenging.

Kindergarten is a really tough grade to judge things by. Kids enter kindergarten from so many different places in life. Some have gone to preschool or prek, some have had some social interaction or play groups but not much else and some have been at home with mom or dad or grandma and plopped in front of a tv for most of the day. Kindergarten teachers have to first figure out where all their students are and then teach all these kids for so many different backgrounds. Tough job!!!

Give it some more time. If she is truly board in a couple of months, mention it to the teacher again. But chances are, things will start to get more interesting very soon.

Good for your daughter for understanding what it means to add and subtract and even multiply numbers!!!!! She is on a good road for mathematics. So many people just memorize math facts (a good start) but never fully grasp the concept of why numbers work they way they work. That is awesome!!!!

Your child has her whole life to be "gifted". However, the disservice would only come by singling her out and removing her from a specific social situation that will only benefit her.

As an aside, I find it someone bizarre that you would compare a search for cognitive/behavioral issues with gifted criteria.

Finally, it appears that your daughter excels in concrete academics, but can she work in the abstract? Abstract issues are really a huge hurdle for many kids and this is why you see so called "gifted" kids start to stall out in about 3rd or 4th grade.

Based on your prior postings, I really think that you should be coaching your daughter to strengthen her social skills, and should she be "gifted" perhaps now is a great time to teach her humility.

We had my daughter tested by a licensed psychologist in 2nd grade. She was given the Weschlers IQ test.

I too suspected my daughter was gifted based partially on her reading ability and ability to grasp math concepts) Her teacher however didn’t see it. I later learned that the school must allocated $ to kids in the program and they are often reluctant to do so. This is partially why I ultimately decided to pay out of pocket for the testing. (My daughter was in the 99th percentile.) I later went back to the school and suggested they revise their criteria for gifted testing. Not one of her teachers were able to identify my daughter as potentially gifted and they initially refused to test her. Later I learned had I put It in writing they would have had to test her. In hindsight though, I’m glad they didn’t. I don’t believe I would have gotten a fair assessment through the school since they have an incentive to say your child is not gifted simply because they don’t want to pay for services.
Also, my niece had testing through the school. The school said she was not gifted and declined to give her services. The next year my sister had privately tested and she then qualified. Surprise surprise.

They don't test for this until 3rd or 4th grade. Early reading doesn't really have anything to do with intelligence or long term academic success, though as parents we often think it does. Those kids who barely know their letters now may be gifted, it just takes longer to surface in some. Educators and child development specialists know this, which is why they don't test so early. You're getting way ahead of yourself here. Let her continue to grow and enjoy school and her teacher will make sure she gets appropriate books and other tools.

At our local elementary they will test in January if a teacher recommends a child for the Gifted and Talented program. Usually it is around 2nd grade but both my kids were tested in Kinder and first. So they will take teacher recommendations before 2nd if they feel a child needs more than the regular curriculum.

It is strange that although my children were identified for testing every year they never got into the program. I am glad they didn't now as they have moved past elementary and at the middle school level the pre-AP classes and high school prep program they are in is vigorous enough without the added projects and work from a GT level class in addition. All of their close friends are in GT and complain about the extra work load for no extra gain.

Our high school is either AP classes, duel credit classes or grade level classes. So, I know my kids will have the chance to be challenged.

In Texas if you ask in writing they have to test your child. It sounds like your daughter may need some extra enrichment. My kids could have used some but we just signed up for after school activities instead. Good luck!!

She sounds very similar to my daughter. The schools here test them in 2nd grade for the gifted program (GATE). So she started GATE last year which is a pull out program. They do projects and she loves it. BUT this doesn't help with daily classroom work. Every year she says school is too easy and she is bored. This year (3rd grade) the teachers are letting her and one other student work ahead. When they test over 90% on a subject they can move up a level. She is working out of her own math book this year. She is reading much higher level books and gets harder vocabulary words. I've told the teachers that this is an issue every year and she actually is not looking forward to school a lot of the time because she is frustrated. They are doing a great job this year of giving her harder work, but every year is totally different because it depends on what teacher you get. So, they are going to see how she does this year and she might skip a grade depending on her test scores and grades. It's hard to know the right thing to do...I don't. I want her to love school and not have it be boring. I don't know if there will be negative consequences to skipping a grade.

Both of my children were bright. The school system wanted to test them and put them in the GT program. I declined. My children were better off in class with their peers. Yes, sometimes the academics were boring, but their teachers had them help kids who had trouble with the concepts.We supplemented with activities and experiences at home.
My children graduated at the top of their classes. They both went to college and are now productive members of society. Did they miss out because they weren’t in the GT program? I don’t believe so. I believe they had a richer academic experience because they were in the classroom, in activities, and with their friends. Many of the GT kids did well academically, but they were out of the classroom and missed a lot socially.
Yes, your child is bright. Things will even out as she progresses through school.

Edited to add about your SWH:
Momma, I'm so sorry that you don't understand that you don't have to give all these reasons behind your thinking here. We are simply answering your question based on our own experiences as mothers, having gone through the same kinds of things you are going through now. My kids are in their 20's. I answer you, having gone through it all, already. There is no reason for you to point out how complicated she is. ALL of our kids are complicated. They are also unique. You wanted to know if you made the wrong decision. That's what you asked. I basically told you that you did the best you could have done based on what was going on at the time to put her in TK. The rest is about what to think of for the future. If you don't agree, that's fine, but moms who have traveled this road before will give you their honest opinion. Isn't that what you actually wanted???

Original post:
Please read Diane B's answer several times. She is so right, and I really feel that if you ignore what she is saying, you will be doing your daughter such a disservice.

I am hoping that you don't mean to make it sound like the neuro-atypical issues above have anything to do with being gifted.

Part of what is so important about kinder is children learning how to be a part of a school. Your daughter has had behavioral issues, and that problem is so important to solve. No matter how smart she is, she may not misbehave in school.

As a mother of one gifted child and one non-gifted child, I can tell you that my gifted child was the more difficult to deal with. I know that this is not across the board, but I have been told that sometimes kids who have higher IQ's have lower EQ's, and that was certainly true about my gifted child. As a parent, it was my job to teach my kid that just because he was smart, the world didn't revolve around him. People don't like people who act like that. You see adults like that all the time, and you hope that your own child doesn't turn out like that.

So the point I'm trying to make specifically to you is that you put her into TK because she needed to mature. You chose to address her immaturity issue. Imagine if you had had to send her to TK because she had a learning disability AND an immaturity issue. Your child will be smart all her life. Put this fear of yours aside and expect her to learn HOW to be a model student while YOU offer her extras at home. Museum trips, lego work, music, gymnastics... these will all give her something that school doesn't and will let school handle the academic side. If you push her academics so much at home, she will feel that school isn't worth going to and you will just have MORE behavioral issues.

The school district here tests the second graders for giftedness. Before that the teachers are responsible for challenging the ones that are seemingly gifted. Several of the kids in my son's class were doing math with the third grade class for most of the second grade year. But not all were able to pass the gifted tests.
You can discuss things with her teacher and the teacher should be able to talk with you about how gifted testing is done in your school. She will know when and how the kids are tested. And since she already knows your child is ahead she should be planning more challenging work for her to keep her busy while she teaches the others. If your daughter is truly ahead and bored they may bump her up a grade level after a placement test

I was a gifted and talented teacher for a few years and both of my kids have been identified as gifted. Our school district has a process for determining giftedness that involves two different types of standardized tests (a cognitive abilities test and a test that measures performance and growth). They test everyone. Students need to score certain scores. If I remember correctly it is in either the top 10% or the top 5% on both tests. Our highly gifted programs for middle school require scores in the top 3%. They also recognize that not all students are good test takers, so there is a portfolio option that can also be used if a student’s test scores are not high enough to qualify.

The National Association for Gifted Children (NAGC) defines Gifted Individuals as “those who demonstrate outstanding levels of aptitude (defined as an exceptional ability to reason and learn) or competence (documented performance or achievement in top 10% or rarer) in one or more domains. Domains include any structured area of activity with its own symbol system (e.g., mathematics, music, language) and/or set of sensorimotor skills (e.g., painting, dance, sports).” They would be a great resource for you to get more information.

An IQ test might be used, but I’ve never taught in a district that used IQ scores to determine giftedness. I’ve also heard that IQ tests given at young ages can be inaccurate.

Every district is different in how they determine giftedness. You would need to talk to a gifted specialist in your district if they have one. Many districts do not.

I would also be wary of a doctor “diagnosis”. We have a friend who was told by a doctor that her kindergarten son’s behaviors were due to his giftedness and being bored in school. He was later diagnosed with a behavioral disorder and has always struggled in school.

In elementary, my own kids have enjoyed going to their gifted classes (pull out classes a couple of times a week), but I don’t know that they have really gained a whole lot from them. Their classroom teachers have done a great job of challenging them and we have done a lot at home. Now in middle school my daughter has been invited to complete a portfolio for the highly gifted program. She’s decided not to do it. She is already grade advanced in math and wants to stay in the same classes with her friends. I’m ok with that. She has lots of interests outside of school and doesn’t want to be bogged down with more homework that will cut into her time for gymnastics, drawing/painting, and photography. In high school she will have the opportunity to take more advanced classes if she wants to.

Honestly, I think maturity is an important part of kindergarten. I wouldn’t worry about having made a mistake in having your daughter start with TK. If you felt at the time she wasn’t ready for kinder, she probably wasn’t. It sounds like her teacher is willing to find ways to challenge here. You can also look for activities outside of school that can challenge her. Every kid is different, but my niece started out kindergarten way ahead of everyone else in her class. Her teacher made accommodations for her. Now as a 6th grade student, she is still more advanced than a lot of her classmates, but the gap has closed a lot. In kindergarten a lot comes down to what exposures and experiences a kid had before starting school. The more experience and exposure, the more advanced they are. A lot of those kids kind of level out with their classmates later on. I’m not saying that will happen with your daughter, but her experiences before school may have put her on a little higher playing field to start with.

Keep in contact with her teacher, talk to a gifted specialist in your district, and look for opportunities outside of school to challenge her.

Updated

I was a gifted and talented teacher for a few years and both of my kids have been identified as gifted. Our school district has a process for determining giftedness that involves two different types of standardized tests (a cognitive abilities test and a test that measures performance and growth). They test everyone. Students need to score certain scores. If I remember correctly it is in either the top 10% or the top 5% on both tests. Our highly gifted programs for middle school require scores in the top 3%. They also recognize that not all students are good test takers, so there is a portfolio option that can also be used if a student’s test scores are not high enough to qualify.

The National Association for Gifted Children (NAGC) defines Gifted Individuals as “those who demonstrate outstanding levels of aptitude (defined as an exceptional ability to reason and learn) or competence (documented performance or achievement in top 10% or rarer) in one or more domains. Domains include any structured area of activity with its own symbol system (e.g., mathematics, music, language) and/or set of sensorimotor skills (e.g., painting, dance, sports).” They would be a great resource for you to get more information.

An IQ test might be used, but I’ve never taught in a district that used IQ scores to determine giftedness. I’ve also heard that IQ tests given at young ages can be inaccurate.

Every district is different in how they determine giftedness. You would need to talk to a gifted specialist in your district if they have one. Many districts do not.

I would also be wary of a doctor “diagnosis”. We have a friend who was told by a doctor that her kindergarten son’s behaviors were due to his giftedness and being bored in school. He was later diagnosed with a behavioral disorder and has always struggled in school.

In elementary, my own kids have enjoyed going to their gifted classes (pull out classes a couple of times a week), but I don’t know that they have really gained a whole lot from them. Their classroom teachers have done a great job of challenging them and we have done a lot at home. Now in middle school my daughter has been invited to complete a portfolio for the highly gifted program. She’s decided not to do it. She is already grade advanced in math and wants to stay in the same classes with her friends. I’m ok with that. She has lots of interests outside of school and doesn’t want to be bogged down with more homework that will cut into her time for gymnastics, drawing/painting, and photography. In high school she will have the opportunity to take more advanced classes if she wants to.

Honestly, I think maturity is an important part of kindergarten. I wouldn’t worry about having made a mistake in having your daughter start with TK. If you felt at the time she wasn’t ready for kinder, she probably wasn’t. It sounds like her teacher is willing to find ways to challenge here. You can also look for activities outside of school that can challenge her. Every kid is different, but my niece started out kindergarten way ahead of everyone else in her class. Her teacher made accommodations for her. Now as a 6th grade student, she is still more advanced than a lot of her classmates, but the gap has closed a lot. In kindergarten a lot comes down to what exposures and experiences a kid had before starting school. The more experience and exposure, the more advanced they are. A lot of those kids kind of level out with their classmates later on. I’m not saying that will happen with your daughter, but her experiences before school may have put her on a little higher playing field to start with.

Keep in contact with her teacher, talk to a gifted specialist in your district, and look for opportunities outside of school to challenge her.