I Have Finally Reached My Limit

Love and Logic is great. There is a seminar at Flower Mound Elementary at 7pm on Oct 5. You can get all the information at that time as to where to get books and why you will want them!

I do not have a teen....got a few years for that one....I have seen a few people post the LOVE and LOGIC books on here before and I would recommend you looking not only for the books but ask the school, library, etc. if there are any parent trainings coming soon. I attended their trainings for educators and it was wonderful. Most of the examples in the training seemed to be directed at teens. It diffuses the power struggles and makes the child be accountable.

K.

Love and Logic- your son's school counselor or library will surely have copies to loan you.

Hi S.,
I would recommend finding a good therapist who specializes in adolescent behaviour to help you and your son work through some of these issues. This is the very tough & hurtful part of parenting, but believe it or not, this is when your son needs you the most. Let me know if you need a referral, I know someone who can help you find the right therapist.
Good luck!
T. S.

I have a 4 children and all three of the older ones are like this. I don't know what to do with them either. If you find out, let me know. I have tried everything. I think at this age it is normal (sorta). My daughter is 12 and acts very similar. I think it is her way of letting me know something is going on but she just doesn't want to say it or doesn't know how to say it. Plus there are a lot of hormonal changes going on right now.
I won't do therapy because my parents did that with me and I have always held it against them ever since. If you do end up going to therapy make sure it is a family affair. He will feel like he is crazy or messed up if he is the only one going.

I hope this sheds a little light on the subject.

It sounds like maybe you and your son would benefit from some counseling. I used to be leery of counselors, but I took my 11 year old son recently, because he was becoming so unpleasant to be around. I'm really glad we did. The psychololgist diagnosed him with childhood depression. Saying things like, "I wish you were dead or I wish I were dead" are never a good sign and an indication that there may be something going on (depression or another problem). I'm not sure where you live, but we really like Dr. Daniel Jackson in Euless. He is a psychologist who has helped us a lot with our son's behavior. Good luck!

Hi S.,
Your situation is a very difficult one, and it sounds very familiar to me. I worked for 8 years as a family therapist prior to becoming a SAHM. I specialized in working with teens and their parents. I would highly recommend a book titled "Parenting Your Out-of-Control Teen" by Dr. Scott Sells. There's also a website: www.difficult.net Dr. Sells' book gives parents tools for dealing with ALL of the behaviors you described in your post. The website will also help you locate a therapist in your area that is trained in Sells' techniques that can assist you in the process of getting your life back on track with your son. Teens are masters at manipulation and at turning arguments around on you. A therapist's support would help tremendously so that you don't reach the point where you feel the need to send your son away. I know you said that you swore you wouldn't ever want to send your kids away, but even the best and most committed parent can reach his or her breaking point when dealing with a teen who is acting out. I wish you the best in your situation. Please don't give up!!

S.,

I truly feel your pain and anguish when I read your request. You have received great advice from moms who are experiencing the same thing. I would like to suggest one additional step to make sure you cover all areas. Has your son been tested for any learning disabilities? Sometimes, when learning challenges go undiscovered, this can be a common behavior reaction. I am not saying it is your case, but just wanted to give you something to consider. My child is only seven, diagnosed with a learning disorder, and when she becomes frustrated at school(very often), her behavior becomes irrational. Sometimes, I feel like throwing in the towel because you never know when the trantrums will come. Discovering the learning disability has helped me to cope more and learn ways to help her. This may not be your situation at all, but it is worth being able to check this off. A great information source that can tell you how environmental things can affect our children is www.feingold.org.

You are getting great advice here. I see counseling is a must, but more so for you than him. It will help you see that you are not alone in this and help you not be so hurt by his words. He will have remorse for them some day, it may take 10 years though. I have raised two teenagers and this is what I have decided. They are all difficult, they believe that they are the only people that matter, and the world really does revolve around them. I believe the teen years are God's way of helping us let go of them when they decide to leave home. I know when my 15 year old decides to move out I will say, ok, do you need a couch or any dishes, and can I help you pack?
Sorry you are going through this.
T.

Parenting with Love and Logic!!!
The program was made for kids like your son.....and it takes the frustration out of parenting...I use it with my 7 year old son.

My husband and I have together four children and discuss all the time how the older ones are resentful of the younger ones but take it out on the parent. My daughter and his son who have been grown for many years with children of their own, still to this day do not take responsibility of their actions. I only can guess on this one but I really think it stems from their childhood and the resentment of their siblings and us giving the younger ones more attention at times. For some reason, they are unable to cope with this and they feel slighted. This may be warranted for when we start getting resentful to their actions, we do treat them differently than the younger ones. They don't see the age difference like we do. I am not sure what the answer is but I do know your son is miserable like this and cannot be very happy for there is too much negative attention. Your past resentment might be a factor but you won't know that until you and your son receive some sort of counseling. This could be a simple thing or a complex thing and you will learn that with help. This is such an important time of his life and I can tell by your response you care and want to improve the relationship. It takes a mature and loving person to reach for help and I am sure you will find your answers. Take a breath, ask for guidance, and you will be lead in the right way.

Welcome to the teenage years! I have a 16 year old daughter and a 13 year old step-son as well as a 10, 9 and 20 month old. Your son sounds more like my oldest daughter. That is called emotional warfare. I was exactly that way when I was his age and up until I moved out. I too, wanted to be my daughter's best friend and have her love me. I soon realized my job as her parent is so much more important. I would have screaming matches with my daughter when she would get mad and not get what she wanted.
Here's what I do now. If I tell her no and she starts in (and she so often does) then I start off by ignoring her. Of course she always wants a reason "WHY". I give her whatever reason I have and then it's over. The discussion on my part is over. She will follow me around the house sometimes screaming and yelling demanding a reason to whatever it is that's inconviencing her and I just simply ignore her. When I've had enough I tell her to go to her room. She's usually pretty wound up by this time and will continue to yell at me so I start by saying "you are going to force me to ground you". She continues. I start with one day. As it gets worse I may have to add a day or two but the whole time she's getting absolutely NO RESPONSE from me. Just enough to say, "ok that's another day now would you like to go to your room or keep adding days to your grounding?". Usually people will stop screaming at you when you're not responding but you probably know that teenagers are their own species. When it becomes too intense I will leave the room (sometimes locking myself in the bathroom) and just ignore it. Inside I'm fuming and wanting to beat her but I just ignore her.
Then there will come a time when she's quite again. She's still not getting to go out or do whatever it is she wants to do but she's at least calm. The trick I've learned is to stay firm. Now she's grounded and a day goes by and she's totally over it so she wants to go somewhere. So I remind her that because of the fit she threw 2 days ago she's still grounded and the chaos begins again! If you will just follow through and stay firm he will get tired of being grounded.
Just remember you don't have to explain yourself to him. You don't owe him any explinations and if you want to ground him for the fun of it you can! I don't suggest it however but you don't have to answer to a 13 year old.
Now my step-son is the one in the house who is perfect. He never does anything and everything around him is what causes him to make bad grades, not turn in his homework, mess up his room....you get the idea. Really, there's nothing you can do about it. I just say sure it's your teacher's fault for giving you that 0 but since you were unlucky enough to get that teacher you're grounded until she decides to bring that grade up for you. He gets furious but what am I going to do? Argue? I think not! I know that he knows in his mind that he's the one to blame so I just play his game with him rather than trying to get him admit to his own actions. He's not going to...he'll argue with a brick wall. The thing with my step-son is that there doesn't seem to be anything he can't endure, so if he's grounded for a month, that doesn't seem to bother him. He's come home with a brand new shirt ruined and of course someone else did it and I just say "well I guess that's how you'll wear it from now on" and the discussion is over.
At this age, I've learned it's me against them. So I'm not going to try to go against the grain. I know the answers usually before I ask the questions, if they give me so junk then I just turn it into the same response it would've been had they told me the truth. There's more of them than there are me, so I just have to keep reminding them that I am the one in charge here. Now with all that said, I do take the time (when I am thier friend) to let them know all the wonderful stuff they do and try to remind them that every decision I make for them is because I love them and I want the best for them. It's so hard at that age because you'll see how cruel they will be just to get what they want. I don't try to hide it when my daughter hurts my feelings. I cry in front of her all the time (she usually says that I'm just trying to make her feel bad) when she hurts me. I think it's important for her to know that I'm a real person with real feelings...but it still doesn't mean she gets her car back!

Hi S.;

My children are not yet in that age group but I lisent to Doc. Laura and I believe they have something that could be helping you right now with your pre-teen maybe you should lisent to her.She's on the radio 100.6 I know that it could be from 1 to 4pm or go to her web-site that way you can get what you are needing right now for your son and for your sanity. I am not sure what the name of the program is that she's advertising but it says something like' Do you have a teenage daughter or son that is destroying your family and you don't want to give up on them well we have the solution to your problem' and then she says the name of the program sorry I don't know the name but I am sure you could find it in her web-site.

Best of Luck!

Eva

Your situation sounds very tough..and sad. I'm sorry.

I recommend two books. The first one is a labeled as a business book, but it really is a life lesson. I read it and it changed my relationship with my children.

Leadership and Self-Deception: Getting out of the Box by The Arbinger Institute

It is a short, quick read. But really changed how I view my children and their behavior AND my reaction to that behavior.

Second one is Setting Limits with Strong Willed Children.

Good Lunch

I'm afraid I'm heading to your situation with my 7 yr old daughter. She argues with everything I say and says that nobody likes her, etc, that we like her little brother (3) better, etc. After arguing with her for years I finally have decided to let it go. I usually say 'I'm sorry you think that, you know it's not true' and then give her examples. I let her make decisions for herself and turn things around on her that her decisions all have consequences. I found that if I agree with her when she's trying to start an arguement, that diffuses the whole situation. In your son's case, he knows the washer didn't put a stain on his shirt but he's trying to get your goat. Just agree with him that that's what must've happened and maybe the washer needs a tune up if it's damaging clothes. If you agree then he can't argue. I know this isn't much help and the other posts have great info, which I'm going to look up. Knowing what he's trying to do can help you counter him. Just tell him you know he's trying to start a fight and you won't participate. Calling his game may help stop it. Good luck.

I am wondering if there is something going on in his life at school or with friends that is causing him to be angry. They say that kids will take their anger out on the safest person in their life, which unfortunatly sounds like you at this time. He probably knows he can act out with you and even though he will be disciplined, you will not leave him. Many people have recommended therapy, which I think can be very helpful. I wonder if he would be interested in going by himself, as well as to some family therapy. And I would suggest the family therapy include everyone in the family, because this does effect everyone. He may just need to talk to someone independant, work through some of his feelings, and learn how to express himself in more appropriate ways. If you do end up putting him in a residential facility, I would strongly encourage you and your family to contiune the family work as his best environment will be the home and hopefully he will integrate back to the family.
You may also try to spend some one-on-one time with him, at a time when he is not acting out. Try to talk to him about how he is feeling and work on a plan for improving his behavior. With a full house, I know this can be hard, but maybe he is trying to get your attention to show that he needs to talk.
Good luck, you will get through this!

Hi S.,

I can only imagine how hard it is for you and your family. You didn't mention whether or not you are in a strong, Bible-believing, teaching church or even if God is in your lives. That would be a huge help. The other suggestion is contacting Minirth/Meyer Clinic in Richardson, TX.

Your son sounds like he's got a lot of frustration and anger and doesn't know how to deal with it. I was like that as a teenager and I needed help desperately. My parents tried everything they could think of. God and His Son, Jesus Christ is the only thing that worked. Counseling helped.

I'll look forward to hearing from you. ____@____.com bless you!
T.

I listen to a local radio station and they discuss a program which is a tool that can be used by parents as an effective parenting tool to give parents techniques to difuse temper tantrums and how to get your kids to start taking responsibility for their actions and have a happy home again.

They have a website at http://www.totaltransformation.com and they can be reached at 1-800-287-9157.

The person that runs this program had a very disruptive personality as a teenager and was by his own admission a child with many problems and at one point he turned his life around and now teaches parents how to deal with these type of kids and hopefully this will help you.

I do not gain financially by telling you about this program as I am not associated with it but listen to them on the local Christian Radio Station The Word 100.7 FM in Irving Texas and have heard wonderful things about the program.

Hope this helps you.

E.

S.,
Like the other mom said, Welcome to Teen Years.
I can't tell you it will get any easier with the other two coming behind him either. I can't even tell you that by the time you go through number 3, you will be good at it and ready for it.
I have 4 children, 3 are teens, ages 17 - 16 - 13 and my youngest son who is 12 will be 13 in February. (Trust me, that 12 yr. old is gearing up for trouble already)
When I began having trouble with my 3rd teen a few months ago I remember telling my husband, I can't do this again as he reminded me of the trouble with our previous two teens. It's a phase, something all teens go through as they struggle to find themselves. Regardless of the extreme there is still trouble in Teen years. Even my daughter,who's an absolute dream child for real, had a little struggle when she was 15. So, I can with my head up say, they all go through this. If a teen doesn't go through some sort of stage then that's when you seek help.
I am being funny, but it's nothing to laugh at. Forgive me.
So, first of all, this is normal, that's the first thing. He is normal and what he is doing is not something you need to send him away for or think that he needs some sort of extreme help and that he's "OUT OF CONTROL". I don't consider him out of control, YET! I commend you for standing up and saying, no I will handle this and I am not sending you somewhere else. I think you are very smart for that. You will be proud of your choice later...I promise!
Just yelling back at you and saying those things, did your children at age 4 ever say, I don't like you, you are mean etc?
It's kind of the same thing with teens.

I have had a list of troubles, thank goodness and knock on wood we are all okay for the moment. At least until the next set of trouble hits us. It seems to be something with one of them all the time. But, I do handle it differently each time because each situation has been different.
I can relate to your trouble now, because my son who is 13 was doing the same thing, he still gets a little cocky. It was a little different, included getting into trouble at school and he had it in his head he was going to live with his grand parents, my ex's parents that is. Finally, I sat him down, we had a good talk, long talk, long cry and melt down. It's a little different, since he's a middle child, the feelins are a little different, feeling left out, not good enough, that everyone gets things and he gets nothing, etc. But, First Born's have trouble like that too, just a little different. In the since that you expect more because he's older etc.
I told my son, that whatever extreme game he thought he was playing in his own head to get to leave my home wasn't going to work. No matter what he did, our family was not complete with out him. I started spending time with him. He was feeling left out because his 12 yr. old brother will come lay down with me at night, talk to me, read, hug me etc. My 13 yr. old had a problem with that, when I pointed out, that he could do that too, that it wasn't like I went looking for his brother and said "come sit with me a while" he just did it. My 13 yr. old began to do it as well. I began taking time with him, other than to yell at him, scold him, argue with him.
My suggestion to you is simple. If it doesn't work, then go to the extreme, but start small, you can always move up in the scale, but if you start extreme there is no where else to go...See what I mean, start at the bottom and move up.
Start with spending time with him. Now, don't get me wrong, because I am a mother and have 4 kids, doesn't mean I know everything or am trying to come off like I do, I know how hard it is, because you are hurt and angry, I was hurt and angry too. But I had to separate that feeling and connect with my son again. Nothing too extravagant etc. A coke or ice cream at the park, just talk to him at night before bed. Start journals together. Talk to him, like he's 13. My 16 yr. old son is the worst at excepting responsibility, sill things too. I would say to him, it would be so much eaier for you to just say, I did it, I am sorry I did it, I will try to do better and not do it again, etc. Instead he blamed everyone but himself. He's gotten a little better, he will at least say now, you're right, It was a bad choice and I am sorry.
Have you told your son how hurt you are by his actions and words? You should start your talk with him like that.
You hurt me, you have hurt my feelings and I don't want to you to hurt me anymore and I don't want to hurt you. But, you need to understand the rules and abide by them.
Just an example here too and suggestion, be careful of what you allow with your oldest, because the younger children will expect it. For example, we don't give our children cell phones. I think it is crazy to see a 6 yr. old or a 10 yr. old with a cell. My daughter worked at babysitting, she bought her cell and pays the bill on her own, she has since she was 14. I have never not one time paid her bill. When my 16 yr. old was 15 he began begging for a cell, I told him the same thing I told his sister, when he could buy his phone and pay the bill then he could do it. Just before he turned 16 this summer he had worked and saved the money to buy his cell and he pays the bill every month. Now, my almost 14. yr. old son has started asking, again, same answer I gave the first two. I didn't do it for them and I won't do it for them. Sure, it would be easier but I am not giving in.
Okay, right now, my kids didn't do their chores all week, I bring this up, because my 17. yr. old daughter just came in here, she asked can she go to the mall with her friend, I said no, you are grounded because you didn't do any chores ALL WEEK long. She said, well, there's nothing to do now, because you and dad did it already. I said, yes, which isn't fair, we spent our whole saturday cleaning house from the week, because none of you did your chores. She said isn't there anything, I said sure, there's an entire kitchen that is begging for help, cabinets, counter tops etc and if you want to go make my kitchen spotless, then you can go to the mall for a few hours. But, hence the fact that anywhere else is out. If you want to go out to eat while you are out, then you need to do something extra. Then I gave her a warning, that since this was the first time she didn't do anything all week, that I would allow this one time and one time only, if she didn't do her chores again next week, that she'd be totally grounded and no let up or allowing her to do extra to get to go. Just my example.
You are doing awesome. Remember your son is learning to speak out and up for himself. Don't be upset he asks questions or tries to get a different answer. I do this, I say, okay, I am going to explain this to you, you have this one time to ask questions, but they must be good questions and nothing silly, I explain the trouble and the punishment, allowing them to speak to me civilized that is and with respect,if they begin to get disrespectful, the conversation is over, I tell them what for, why, how come, when, etc. Then when the conversation ends, that's it, NO MORE DISSCUSSION!
I am rambling here, I don't want to dominate anymore of your time. But, know that I am here if you want to bounce ideas or talk. Feel free to Email me, even if you just need to vent.
Smiles and Silent Wishes for Peace,
T.
Email: ____@____.com or ____@____.com

____@____.com this is an e-mail to a wonderful and wise christian woman who has a doctorate and is a family/marriage counselor. she did counceling for my husband and i 5yrs ago.we went to her for almost 2yrs and are still friends with her. she has done most of her specialty with counseling children and parents. you should e-mail her and find out what she can do for you. i guarentee you won't be dissapointed! also she is a member of prestoncrest church of christ and they have a wonderful benevolent program that she can contact to pay for your counseling if you do not have the means. you don't have to be a member of the church they do this for anyone she deems in real need and i'm sure you fit that category. she also has suggested to me the love and logic book. my girls are still young (2,3) and right now i'm reading growing kids Gods way which is helping tremendously with my strongwilled 3yr old. they also have a book for parenting teens that is suppose to be wonderful! the authors are gary and ann marie ezzo. God Bless! A.

You might consider a wilderness challenge retreat. You and your son would be put in situations outside of your comfort zone where you would learn to rely on and trust each other. Even if you are not an outdoorsy kind of a person you will have fun together, learn a lot about each other and hopefully reconnect. I saw something on tv about it once and all the teenagers on the show went into it with a "this is stupid" kind of an attitude and came out with a newfound respect for their parents. In the end, it seemed like a memorable and bonding experience for everyone. Check out adventuresports.com and look under challenge courses. I have never done this before, but if I were in your situtation, I would definitely consider it. Also, I'm sure there are other places besides this website that do this type of thing . . . just thought I'd give you a head start. Good luck.

I do not have teenagers, however, I have often found that the "Focus on the Family" organization is a helpful source for child rearing information. Here is a link to their web site: http://www.family.org/ Once you are at the site, you can search for any topic. (teenagers, anger, discipline...whatever)

S.,
Boy....do i know where you are at...I too have a 13yr old boy...9 and 4...all boys..i know all to well what you are dealing with...Some of the advice regarding books etc. is great advice...i have read some of them and they do have some great ideas, i have also done counceling with my son between the ages of 10-12, because he started the tween thing very early...did it help...not really..thus is why i stopped..the one thing i can say is that CONSISTANCY is the key...you have to find other means to dicipline him instead of the same things all the time. Don't be predictable. If he is like my son and can't breath with out the computer, than take away the computer for a length of time. Have him do extra work around the house. For example my son has to mow the lawn every week..if he acts up then he also has to pull all the weeds in the front and back yard. I have also had him write essays on different things he has done wrong such as disrespet, honesty, family and what each one of these mean to him and how does his actions effect the entire family. This is one of my favorites, so I try not to use this one too often..I use this one when he has really hurt me or the family and I want him to reflect and see why without me having to explain or yell at him to understand. I know it is very hard for many parents to be friends with their children and still be the parent..but you can still do it. One day my son may tell me how I have ruined his life and the next day telling me I am the funniest person he knows. One thing I have found that also works is to talk to them at night before they go to sleep.(yes i still tuck him in every night, this is how i get him to open up to me) They are usually more apt to open up for some reason. I ask my son every night how life is going and school and is there any questions he may have or is there anything I might be able to help him with. This is just time between him and I. It takes a while for them to open up, but it does happen. Be PERSISTANT, not nagging, and let them know you have been where they are.School today is no different than when we went. You never know what is bothering them unless you ask and get them to open up to you. One of the other Mom's said it best, ignore the yelling after you have spoken your peace. The more you yell and give explainations the more they will break you down. I hope this helps, even a little. Please feel free to email me anytime, I too struggle with how to deal with my 13yr old every day, but i also know in time he will like me again.
K. R.
____@____.com

Have you heard of James Dobson and Focus on The Family? He's the leading family psychologist in our country--sells millions of books on many subjects. Go to his website--I think it's www.focusonthefamily.com. There are lots of resources, many of them are free. Do you attend church anywhere? If not, I recommend getting involved in a church that has a strong youth program--our church does if you're interested in learning more. Your son has to learn what is the root of his rebellion and it's sin. No words you or your husband can say will change his heart--only God.